No lorica segmentata?

[abou]

Even though the Imperial reforms are a long, long, very long way off I do feel a bit saddened that Cohors Imperatoria still uses lorica hamata. I assume that the the Imperial reforms take place sometime during what would be the reign of Augustus; and since pieces of loricae segmentatae have been found in Germany at the supposed site of the Teutoberg battle that could theoretically place the development and use of the armor sometime before 9 CE. I know that after a while its use practically ceased due to the the expense of it and the upkeep required, but that would happen well after then end of EB.

So, why no lorica segmentata? Was it that uncommon?

[BigTex]

The loricae segmentatae was cheaper then the loricae hamatae, and much faster to produce. It also offered much more protection then the hamatae did. I think the EB creators didn't put it into the game becuase it didn't become wide spread until the 1st century A.D. . Also I've never completely understood why the romans ever got rid of the loricae sedmentatae, the answers have never completely made sense in my mind. Guess it had to do with the rise of superheavy cavalry. I have extreme doubts in the debate that chain became more favorable becuase it was more durable. Yet the segmentatae used banded plates, easy to replace, much like chain.

[khelvan]

We have no evidence of the use of segmentata prior to the battle of Teutoberg forest, 9 AD, and even then we have only a few pieces, which does not imply widespread use. To equip legions with it would be anachronistic for our mod, especially given that most players will never come even close to 100 BC, much less 9 AD, and even then, currently, our end date is 14 AD.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Lorica Hamata is better protection and more comfortable. A friend of mine who does re-enactment says that you can always tell the new legionaries because, "The armour is still wearing them," (the armour needs breaking in) Segmentata takes a full minute to put on, vs a few seconds for Hamata or Squamata. Lorica Segmentata is also less durable because it's held together by leather straps, which need frequent replacing, and it provides no groin protection at all. Given that the thickness of the chest plates was around 0.7mm the armour was no good for protecting you from a good spear thrust.

The advantages are that it is cheap, quick to make and light.

There is actually no evidence that the armour ever fully replaced Hamata and it has been mooted that it was used mainly by "assault" troops because the lighter armour would allow them to move faster without tyring. In general though other forms of Lorica were superior.

[QwertyMIDX]

Thanks Wig, I was going to write that exact same post but you beat me too it.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

:2thumbsup:

I post to serve, Imperator.

[abou]

Hunh, you learn something new every day. I hadn't even considered the issue of groin protection, but would it really matter with the scutum?

Adrian Goldsworthy has given me a slightly different view on armor, but then again in The Complete Roman Army he doesn't spend nearly as much time as I would have liked on equipment.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Goldsworthy is a bit, well, he's good but there are better. IIRC he is really a historian, you need to talk to an archeaologist that does reconstruction and experiments with the equipment.

[abou]

Do you have any books that you could point me towards that would detail equipment and uniforms?

[cunctator]

If you can read german I can recommend these, however the legionary book mainly focuses on Augustan legions, you won't find much about segmentata there:
Marcus Junkelmann
Die Reiter Roms, in 3 Teilen, Teil.1, Reise, Jagd, Triumph und Circusrennen ISBN: 3805310064
Die Reiter Roms, in 3 Teilen, Teil 2, Der militärische Einsatz, Verlag Phillip von Zabern 1991, ISBN 3805311397
Die Reiter Roms, in 3 Teilen, Teil 3, Zubehör, Reitweise, Bewaffnung, Verlag Phillip von Zabern, ISBN 3805312881
Die Legionen des Augustus ISBN: 3805308868

[abou]

Yeah, my German really isn't up to snuff... as in all I know are the words die and reich - although In Extremo is a really cool band.

Actually, if there are any texts on Carthaginian equipment, that would be great to have as well. I really like what has been done with the Sacred Band units and other Carthaginian troops in EB and it would be nice to get images and descriptions of equipment.