Guns again [Archive]

English assassin

03-22-2006, 10:50

This is a troll. The bait is a dead kid blasted twice with a pensioner (well, if can't have been a shotgun can it, guns don't kill people)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/usguns/Story/0,,1736424,00.html

A child is killed by a gun every three hours in America. According to the latest statistics, nearly 1,000 children under 19 are shot dead every year. Another 800 use guns to commit suicide, and more than 160 die in firearm accidents.

Forty per cent of American households own guns, but those guns are 22 times more likely to be involved in an accidental shooting, or 11 times more likely to be used in a suicide, than in self-defence. On average, more than 80 Americans are killed by gunfire every day.

Just for the avoidance of doubt, I don't really care if Americans have guns. I'm not hoping to disarm the population so Britain can invade (because, obviously, its only the private ownership of guns and not the many nuclear powered aircraft carrier battle groups that prevents us). I just like to see people arguing patently untenable positions.

Its a sort of legal in joke.

Franconicus

03-22-2006, 12:43

The US is a democracy. So many people are dying because the majority wants it to be that way. It is as simple as that! It is all right to me. I am only scared if I have to go to the US. E.A, do you know how many visitors from abroad were killed?

InsaneApache

03-22-2006, 13:53

Don't know about visitors to the US but you'd better keep off the grass.

An obsessive gardener shot a teenager who walked on his lawn and then calmly called the police to confess, “I just killed a kid”.

Charles Martin, 66, a retired Ford car worker who was known to measure his grass to the inch, is charged with murdering Larry Mugrage, a 15-year-old who lived next door in Batavia, Ohio.

link (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,11069-2098050,00.html)

:inquisitive:

Hehe I should pay closer attention .....

Redleg

03-22-2006, 14:39

This is a troll. The bait is a dead kid blasted twice with a pensioner (well, if can't have been a shotgun can it, guns don't kill people)

Troll away. :oops: :laugh4: :dizzy2:

Kanamori

03-22-2006, 14:50

Meh, the guns will never be taken away, and they would be useful if another country ever invaded the land. Imagine a bunch of gun-loving, gun-toting, Americans as the populace you have to keep under wraps.:dizzy2:

mystic brew

03-22-2006, 14:51

didn't help them avoid a coup in 2000, though, did it?

Reenk Roink

03-22-2006, 15:24

The US is a democracy. So many people are dying because the majority wants it to be that way. It is as simple as that!

Man...I'm going to have to say touche...Good Stuff

I can't stand the tone of Euro-arrogance, but you actually hit the nail on the head with that one...

Franconicus

03-22-2006, 15:30

Man...I'm going to have to say touche...Good Stuff

I can't stand the tone of Euro-arrogance, but you actually hit the nail on the head with that one...
Arrogance:idea2: Sorry:
The US is the oldest and best democracy. The politicians follow the wishes of the majority of the people. So many people are dying because the majority wants it to be that way. It is as simple as that in the US! Other coutries will never be able to understand this or even to reach this high level of democracy.

Better?:laugh4:

IliaDN

03-22-2006, 15:51

Hello, Franc, I'm not quite sure that US is the oldest and the best one...

Lazul

03-22-2006, 15:54

"A child is killed by a gun every three hours in America" ~:thumb:

... horrible and; "80 Americans are killed by gunfire every day".... I'm just going to restrain myself from going on a rant. :bow:

Vladimir

03-22-2006, 16:15

How many die in automobile collisions? Oh wait, I know, symbolism vs. substance, never mind.

"A child is killed by a gun every three hours in America" ~:thumb:

... horrible and; "80 Americans are killed by gunfire every day".... I'm just going to restrain myself from going on a rant. :bow:

In Iraq, they call that civil war.

Reenk Roink

03-22-2006, 16:23

Arrogance:idea2: Sorry:
The US is the oldest and best democracy. The politicians follow the wishes of the majority of the people. So many people are dying because the majority wants it to be that way. It is as simple as that in the US! Other coutries will never be able to understand this or even to reach this high level of democracy.

Better?:laugh4:

Well, it proves the arrogance part further... :tongue:

Louis VI the Fat

03-22-2006, 16:23

30,136 people were killed by firearms in the US in 2003

Martin: I've been being harassed by him and his parents for five years. Today just blew it up. Kid's just been giving me a bunch of shit, making the other kids harass me and my place, tearing things up.

Operator: OK, so what'd you do?

Martin: I shot him with a goddamn 410 shotgun twice.Oh well. Europe is Europe, America is America, and never the twain shall meet.

Crazed Rabbit

03-22-2006, 17:02

This is a troll. The bait is a dead kid blasted twice with a pensioner (well, if can't have been a shotgun can it, guns don't kill people)

How about you try saying 'blasted twice by a pensioner'? This is a shabby editorial. It can't be an article, it is too slanted and blatantly editorializes.

A child is killed by a gun every three hours in America. According to the latest statistics, nearly 1,000 children under 19 are shot dead every year. Another 800 use guns to commit suicide, and more than 160 die in firearm accidents.

If one 'child' (19 is awfully old for being a child) is killed every 3 hours, then that would mean 8 dead a day and 2920 dead a year. Convienently, they are kind enough to inform us in their next sentence that they are lying. Nor do they say how many of these 0 to 19 children were teenagers in gangs, or how many were shot in self defense, how many were shot by illegally owned guns, and how many were not doing illegal activities.

Forty per cent of American households own guns, but those guns are 22 times more likely to be involved in an accidental shooting, or 11 times more likely to be used in a suicide, than in self-defence. On average, more than 80 Americans are killed by gunfire every day.

A pack of lies. The oft-repeated lies stem from a report that has been discredited by the researcher, but anti-gun groups repeat endlessly. And people are not killed by guns firing, they are killed by people firing guns at them. And although many like to repeat that 30,000 were killed by guns, they decline to mention over half of those were suicides.

This is another pathetic example of anti-gun bigots trying to portray all guns as terrible.

Crazed Rabbit

master of the puppets

03-22-2006, 17:17

This is another pathetic example of anti-gun bigots trying to portray all guns as terrible.

AHHH LIBERALS, TEX, SFTS, GET YOUR SHOTGUNS.

but seriously, the rabbit is right those statistics are warped, i'm not discrediting the lethality of guns or the blatant idiocy of many gun toting rednecks and crack-head gangbangers, cause many die due to them. but to state that the gun problem is so great in legaly owned and registered firearms for violence and crime is wrong, most are commited by unregistered firearms that the government could'nt control if they wanted to, and many others are just suicides or stupid parents leaving there pistols in the top drawer of there nightstand when a six year old is running around.

guns don't kill people, mentally deficient jerks do... with the help of guns.:laugh4:

drone

03-22-2006, 17:20

http://www-fars.nhtsa.dot.gov/

To answer Vladimir's question, in comparison with Louis VI the Fat's gun fatalities, 42,884 dead from traffic accidents in 2003.

The_Doctor

03-22-2006, 17:29

Instead of guns, I think we should all own a giant inflatable hammer.:laugh4:

Much more fun.:2thumbsup:

Goofball

03-22-2006, 18:12

This is another pathetic example of anti-gun bigots trying to portray all guns as terrible.

How can one be bigoted against an inanimate object?

Your post sounds like just another pathetic (but rather funny) example of a pro-gun fanatic trying to use invective to stir up anger against anybody who might possibly believe that guns are a detriment to society.

:laugh4:

Major Robert Dump

03-22-2006, 18:13

BULLSH*****

A child killed every three hours in america by a gun would be 2400+ kids are killed each year by guns which simply isnt true. Who comes up with thius crap, man?

Major Robert Dump

03-22-2006, 18:17

Yeah, i like how "child" is anyone under 19, and "shot dea" includes people killed while in the commission of a crime, be it a cop shooting a robber or two crackheads shooting each other. In most cases I wouldnt even argue 17 year olds as still being kids.

God, what a bunch of one sided garbage, hoping to invoke the thoughts of little 5 year old Timmys abd little Annies getting killed 2400 times each year.

Goofball

03-22-2006, 18:18

BULLSH*****

A child killed every three hours in america by a gun would be 24000+ kids are killed each year by guns which simply isnt true. Who comes up with thius crap, man?

Erm...

It would actually be 2,920.

Major Robert Dump

03-22-2006, 18:19

yeah i had one too many zeros. ITs still untrue, slanted garbage at 2000

R'as al Ghul

03-22-2006, 18:36

Instead of guns, I think we should all own a giant inflatable hammer.:laugh4:

Much more fun.:2thumbsup:

That would be awesome. :laugh4:
Combine them with those inflatable sumo-suits and imagine the riot we could have. ~D

The_Doctor

03-22-2006, 18:52

Combine them with those inflatable sumo-suits and imagine the riot we could have.

LOL.:2thumbsup:

Duke Malcolm

03-22-2006, 19:39

Last summer, upon my arrival in New York, my wee cousin was terrified of the gun that the Homeland Security man was equipped with. The man was certainly friendly enough, but she ran and hid behind my auntie for the whole business of Entering the U.S.. But that's all by the by...

Crazed Rabbit

03-22-2006, 20:49

How can one be bigoted against an inanimate object?

Well, according to Merriam-Webster Dictionary:
big·ot : a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices.

And many anti-gun (not all) people fit that: they have a illogical devotion to the idea that guns are bad.

Your post sounds like just another pathetic (but rather funny) example of a pro-gun fanatic trying to use invective to stir up anger against anybody who might possibly believe that guns are a detriment to society.

I'm a fanatic, am I? Heh. Ah, Goofy, it seems you're using a bit of a strawman there. I'm not trying to stir up anger, I'm pointing out that this Englishman's editorial is full of conjuncture, lies, and bias.

Last summer, upon my arrival in New York, my wee cousin was terrified of the gun that the Homeland Security man was equipped with. The man was certainly friendly enough, but she ran and hid behind my auntie for the whole business of Entering the U.S.. But that's all by the by...

Hmm...land of freedoms vs land where the government cultivates fear...hmmm. I'm just glad my little sister isn't afraid of inanimate objects.

Crazed Rabbit

Tribesman

03-22-2006, 20:49

This is another pathetic example of anti-gun bigots trying to portray all guns as terrible.

Really ?????
I thought it was an example of why some feckwits should not be allowed access to firearms , and a damn good example at that .

Crazed Rabbit

03-22-2006, 20:52

Really ?????
I thought it was an example of why some feckwits should not be allowed access to firearms , and a damn good example at that .

The incident certainly is (and perhaps a warning not to rile up old people who don't have much to lose), but I'm talking about the editorial EA posted.

Crazed Rabbit

Tribesman

03-22-2006, 20:54

Hmm...land of freedoms vs land where the government cultivates fear...hmmm. I'm just glad my little sister isn't afraid of inanimate objects.

Well make sure your little sister learns to be afraid of walking on the grass .
You wouldn't want some crazy old coot to decide that its time "turf war" had a new definition .

BigTex

03-22-2006, 21:25

That article is idiotic, full of contradictions. It states that only 1000 kids are killed by guns (No wait wasnt it "Shot Dead" hell they don't have an agenda.) not one every three hours. It doesn't list how many of those 1000 are from police killing criminals, gangs, or people protecting themselve from a criminal. Why in the world is the UK concerned with our laws in the first place. Our right to bear arms does not concern England, it wont be influenced by England. Is yellow journalism in the UK that bored they need to go off and create editorials about laws that don't concern them?

To all you bigot anti-gun advocats, the NRA doesn't kill people, inanimate objects don't kill people, people kill people. If you want to stop gun deaths you need to change the culture not the gun laws, if the culture isnt changed then the weapons will just change. Banning guns will have the same effect it had in the UK they'll just grab a knife, I'm sure you'll be wanting to ban knifes then right? Hell more children die because their parents are poor drivers. I've been firing guns since I was 8 years old, and packing my own rounds since I was 9. The only injurry's I've has was a burn from holding a barrel after a couple shots, and a few bites from pistol's (those are nasty).

Originally posted by Duke Malcom
Last summer, upon my arrival in New York, my wee cousin was terrified of the gun that the Homeland Security man was equipped with. The man was certainly friendly enough, but she ran and hid behind my auntie for the whole business of Entering the U.S.. But that's all by the by...

Why was he afraid of the rifle, children only fear what they've been taught to fear. Does he know guns are safe, has he ever seen a rifle close up before? Did he just fear the guy? If anything at least they wont go fooling around with something they fear.

Originally posted by master of the puppets
AHHH LIBERALS, TEX, SFTS, GET YOUR SHOTGUNS.

https://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e331/Thammure/m1_small.jpg

https://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e331/Thammure/gun_rack_t.jpg

https://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e331/Thammure/front_rifles.jpg
I know an M-82 isnt even close to a shotgun or a deer rifle, just a personal favorite.

solypsist

03-22-2006, 21:29

we need guns or this will definitely happen

http://www.derok.net/derok/images/classics/planet%20liberty.jpg

BigTex

03-22-2006, 21:51

Gosh darn, and five minutes after posting that I slice open my index finger with a knife. You see guns don't hurt people, knifes do! Soly its not a matter of needing or not needing, its a matter of why not if your not going to kill someone. Guns are nearly required for hunting now because of fu**ing PETA, so if you can't have a gun you cannot hunt. Apparently using a bow or atl atl is animal cruelty, my arse. Hunting is a huge part of our history and I refuse to let some liberal hippe take that away. People will die period, if the kid is dumb enough to play with something he was told not to then they'll just find something else dangerous to do. Like hey, play with all those wonderful chemicals under the sink. You shouldn't blame the gun, but blame the parent who didn't care enough for the child to lock it up. Don't try to use bad parenting as a reason to ban guns.

master of the puppets

03-22-2006, 21:55

[QUOTE=BigTex]
https://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e331/Thammure/front_rifles.jpg
QUOTE]

*drool* mine too.

Goofball

03-22-2006, 22:07

I'm a fanatic, am I? Heh. Ah, Goofy, it seems you're using a bit of a strawman there. I'm not trying to stir up anger, I'm pointing out that this Englishman's editorial is full of conjuncture, lies, and bias.

I didn't say you were a fanatic. The same way you didn't say I was a bigot. The last thing we want to do is stir up anger.

~;)

To all you bigot anti-gun advocats, the NRA doesn't kill people, inanimate objects don't kill people, people kill people.

Exactly. Guns don't kill people, senior citizens kill people.

master of the puppets

03-22-2006, 22:08

Goofball

03-22-2006, 22:12

Gosh darn, and five minutes after posting that I slice open my index finger with a knife. You see guns don't hurt people, knifes do! Soly its not a matter of needing or not needing, its a matter of why not if your not going to kill someone.

Which is probably exactly what the guy who sold the old codger in question his gun thought: "Why not? This old fella's not going to kill anybody."

Samurai Waki

03-22-2006, 22:13

How do you do that? the best thing you can do is run a criminal background check on them (which they do BTW), if any felonies pop up then they don't get a gun, easy as that.

BigTex

03-22-2006, 22:22

anyway i think hunting is kinda stupid (congrats you shot a completely unaware and stupid animal from 100 yards away after luring it in with feremones that also dull its senses(sarcasm)). but i still say it is the persons rights to choose whether they want to bare the risk/pleasure of owning a firearm. i say just don't let um have the guns until they are proven responsable.

I personally hate hunters who use feremones, that use enormous 10x scopes and many other things. Takes aways the skill from the game. That is why there is bow hunting and for the person who wants the real challenge atl atl hunting. Where you throw a spear to kill it, that requires slowly stalking the animal till your within 30 or so yards and then throwing and killing quickly so they dont get away. But apparently Peta prefers you to use bullets, so many states are begining to ban atl atl and bow hunting. I'm curious what peta will do when deer overpopulate their homes and begin to starve to death in large quantities. I also think the government should start charging PETA and the other anti hunting fools out there the animal conservation money's that are lost becuase of the fewer hunters. Hunters are responsible for much of the large populations of deer that are now found in the U.S.A. Couple months ago if I remember correctly the populations in gettysburg got large enough the rangers had to go in and slaughter a large number of them.

Samurai Waki

03-22-2006, 22:34

I've never been a hunter, but the ones I do know, see absolutely no joy in using pheramones and .50 Caliber Sniper Rifles with a 10x Scope with a range finder and Night Vision attachments. The best part of hunting I think is just being out in the wilderness, and the ones I used to shoot I did it with a Camera instead of a gun. I don't mind hunters at all, and for Montanans its a tradition for a lot of people that no one would have the guts to take away. Also, The Elk Conservation Society, and Ducks Unlimited are mostly funded by Hunters as well, not groups like PETA, and those Conservation societies have done more to protect the animals than PETA has ever done and work with less than 1/70th of their budget.
Most hunters (aside from those **** poachers that give everyone else a bad name:furious3: ) kill their animals humanely by shooting them in the Kill Zone, if they can't hit the Kill Zone, they won't take a gut shot because that will ruin the meat, and chances are you'll never be able to find the animal, and they don't like shooting them in the back because the animal suffers way too much.

All in all, I get my outdoor kicks by rafting or fly fishing.

Philippus Flavius Homovallumus

03-23-2006, 00:13

The ownership of guns is not a problem. I am quite capable of sitting with a loaded machine gun in my lap and not shooting someone in the arse accidentally. Unfortunately not everyone who owns a gun knows how to use it.

I've said it before, I'll say it again, if you own a gun it should be locked away, as should the ammunition, seperately, and no one who is not qualified should be able to get the key.

Also, pointing a gun at someone, except in defence, should be a crime that incurs a fine huge and a lifetime ban on firearms.

Kaiser of Arabia

03-23-2006, 00:43

Population Control.

Goofball

03-23-2006, 01:19

:no:

I'm not getting into this. People have the inalienable right to defend themselves.

Yes, I would agree.

But what does that have to do with guns?

At the very least, we as law-abiding citizens should have the same access to armament as criminals who might do us harm.

And the only way to ensure that would be by banning all guns. That way you would have equal access to them as those who wanted to do you harm.

The tricky part is that you also have to have extremely stiff penalties for being caught with a gun, i.e. automatic 10 years in jail first offense, and you have to actually enforce those laws.

Major Robert Dump

03-23-2006, 01:25

When the social experiment of banning all guns begins, I'd like for everyone who is anti-gun to move to the united states, preferably somewhere like East St Louis or Shreveport, La., and enjoy the wonderful social interaction you will recieve from the crooks who didnt turn their guns in and now rob, rape and murder without a second thought that the citizen will be armed. It will be a real hoot, and in the meantime I will have moved to Peru for, say, 10 years or however long it takes for all the illegal guns to be siphoned out of society.

Don Corleone

03-23-2006, 01:39

I've tried and tried to refrain from this conversation. Sadly, it calls to me with a siren's wail I cannot resist... "Trust the government... surrender your rights... you will be safe....".

Goof, Louis, EA, I respect you gents and usually your opinions. This is a sad travesty. But do you really think if he didn't have a gun, this 'poor old pensioner who didn't know any better' wouldn't have just put a carving knife in the kid's chest? I mean, he shot him twice, at point blank range, with a shotgun, because the kid walked on his 'well manicured lawn', and you think the answer is to put ourselves at risk of criminals? What makes you think Charles Martin would surrender his gun when you pass your laws?

Personally, I find Goofball's statement that everyone is entitled to self-defense, but that has nothing to do with guns, rather patronizing and childish. Tell you what, Mr. Smug... let me release a 300 lb. rapist who did 12 years of hard time in San Quentin into your house with your wife and kid relying on you, and you try to get the police to your house before he breaks down the door to your bedroom.

I've said it before, I'll say it again. Police departments aren't even required to try to prevent a crime. They are charged with investegating and detaining those who committed it. They are under no obligation to put themselves in harm's way to protect the average citizen, and most don't. If you rely on the police as the only thing protecting you from student rioters, drug crazed lunatics, rapists and the like, then good luck with that. Please don't tell me how to live my life in my own country.

Here's what I don't get... none of the 3 of you live here. Granted, Tachi could chime in at any moment and upset the apple cart, as he actually does, but tell me, when was the last time we 'bossy, arrogant, pushy' Americans told you how to live your lives in Canada, France or England? If we're obnoxious, pushy and arrogant, yet we respect your sovereignty, and you don't respect ours, what does that make you?

Tribesman

03-23-2006, 02:30

Don Corleone

03-23-2006, 02:54

Typical , you have a case where some doddery old fart murders someone with a legally held firearm over nothing , which of course you cannot justify . So it turns into..... what if it is 300lb rapist is breaking down your door ???

I'm not equating the two, I'm saying one goes hand in hand with the other. You cannot disarm our friend Mr. Martin along with all the law-abiding, taxpaying citizens out there without leaving them defenseless to criminals.

We're just making the same old arguments now. I always ask you gun seizure types how do I defend myself. You always come back with "why should you be able to defend yourself" or "defend yourself from what? There's no home invasions anymore", neither of which is a particularly strong argument.

How many people kill somebody else while under the influence of alcohol, with guns, knives, cars and even their own two hands? How many murders and assaults are alcohol involved in? Lets ban alcohol across Europe and North America, then I'll consider banning guns. Until then, I have to tell you hypocrites, kiss my Ruger. :2thumbsup:

Strike For The South

03-23-2006, 02:54

Funny my street probably has about 65 guns (including an AK-47 that was cool) and funnly enough no one has ever got shot! A gun is a tool and this idiot is stupid enough to use it on a child what can I say.

Incongruous

03-23-2006, 03:07

guns Dont Kill People.
Americans Kill People.

Strike For The South

03-23-2006, 03:23

Tribesman

03-23-2006, 03:25

You cannot disarm our friend Mr. Martin along with all the law-abiding, taxpaying citizens out there without leaving them defenseless to criminals.

Well disarm the criminals then , that is what you pay you police for isn't it .
But then again in this case he wasn't a criminal until decided to commit a crime with his gun was he , just like those that go postal arn't criminals until they get annoyed at work , or the schoolkids who decide they don't really like the other kids at school and go on a murder spree .

You are stuck with it ,you have to have guns because the criminals have guns , and the criminals have to have guns because you have guns .

I always ask you gun seizure types how do I defend myself
Gun seizure types :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:
How do you defend yourself Don ? Are you living in constant fear ? Are you ready every moment of the day and night ?
If not then the criminal has got the drop on you , he is ready when he is doing his "job" .
So all your gun gives you is a false sense of security .

Don Corleone

03-23-2006, 03:28

guns Dont Kill People.
Americans Kill People.

That's right Bopa, and now you're on our list. Where are you hanging out these days anyways? :rifle:

we need guns or this will definitely happen Or what will happen? The apes will take over?

How come there's no Grateful Dead bear smileys? Or skeletons, or terrapins, or any other signs of higher culture in these here parts?

Don Corleone

03-23-2006, 03:33

Incongruous

03-23-2006, 03:38

i APOLOGISE SFTS

This is far more intelligent.

GUNS DONT KILL PEOPLE.
PEOPLE KILL PEOPLE.

Tribesman

03-23-2006, 03:41

Reenk Roink

03-23-2006, 03:41

oh well that explians it all dosent it. You probably thought that was funny didnt you? Well its not. Quite stupid actually and bigoted as well. now watch this.

IEDs dont kill people. Muslims kill people

I would chastize him, but he is angry at the PC movement...:rolleyes:

*note*

What the hell? "chastize" is spelled "chastise" on this dictionary...

Proof that society is going downhill...:no:

DemonArchangel

03-23-2006, 03:46

IEDs dont kill people. Muslims kill people

Well, first

LOL.

Anyway, Muslims do kill people, so do Christians, Jews and Buddhists and who knows how many people of other random religious faiths.

And guns don't kill people.

I do.

Don Corleone

03-23-2006, 03:49

You and the rest of the gun seizing types
:laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:
There you go again :no:

I simply won't allow somebody else to march into my home and harm my loved ones.
Oh they are going to march in , maybe they will bring a big brass band to announce their arrival even better .
You really don't have much experience with criminals do you .:inquisitive:

Don't like America, don't like our crazy, wicked laws? Stay the hell out.
Lame Don , totally lame .

Is there a reason you're picking and choosing which parts of my post you'll answer? No word on why it's okay to allow drunks to beat their kids? Any explanation why you should have the right to dictate domestic policy in America?

As for your latest round, as matter of fact, I've had people break into my apartment twice in my life, both times when I lived in Providence. One time they ran when they realized I was home, the 2nd time, they didn't. It was after the 2nd time that I decided to buy a gun and I've never regretted the experience.

Your cute little jokes about marching bands are funny. You're very entertaining Tribesman, but frankly, i find your arguments pretty weak, as I'm sure you find mine. I don't understand why you feel that you have the right to order people to be defenseless in their homes in another country, and I'm sure you're wondering how dare I question your infinite wisdom. You're a nice enough guy, so I'm gonna drop this. Go ahead with your cheesy jokes and petty insults though. You seem to need them.

Strike For The South

03-23-2006, 03:53

I would chastize him, but he is angry at the PC movement...:rolleyes:

*note*

What the hell? "chastize" is spelled "chastise" on this dictionary...

Proof that society is going downhill...:no:

You bleeding heart get off your high horse. The point is its a tool and Bopas statement was bigoted and uncalled for

Tribesman

03-23-2006, 03:55

You just don't get it at all do you Don .

No word on why it's okay to allow drunks to beat their kids?
My my , better call the doctor , your lameness has got to the stage where you are seriously crippled .

Alexander the Pretty Good

03-23-2006, 03:58

Tribesman - you can't disarm criminals before you know who they are. You sound like the government has a list titled "Dangerous - Must Disarm" with all the people who shouldn't have guns on it. It doesn't work that way. That Martin guy didn't have a history, from looking at the article. How could we have known he'd flip out like that? How could we have prevented that without confiscating all guns and hoping that he obeyed such an edict?

Reenk Roink

03-23-2006, 04:00

You bleeding heart get off your high horse. The point is its a tool and Bopas statement was bigoted and uncalled for

You "iaagnorant" fool, I was refering to Bopa's statement, not yours. Bopa's former tag read "Angry at the PC movement." You are too damn silly and funny to offend anyone. Plus, everyone knows you never mean it. Yesterday in chat you said "I love the holocaust" and followed it up with "doesn't mean I believe in it." If you were anyone different, I would come down on you @$$ faster than the po-po on Rodney King.

You're like Ann Coulter, except people like you.

Alexanderofmacedon

03-23-2006, 04:03

Well, it proves the arrogance part further... :tongue:

Arrogance of Europe? I'd be more worried about the arrogance in our own country Reenk...

Strike For The South

03-23-2006, 04:05

You "iaagnorant" fool, I was refering to Bopa's statement, not yours. Bopa's former tag read "Angry at the PC movement." You are too damn silly and funny to offend anyone. Plus, everyone knows you never mean it. Yesterday in chat you said "I love the holocaust" and followed it up with "doesn't mean I believe in it." If you were anyone different, I would come down on you @$$ faster than the po-po on Rodney King.

You're like Ann Coulter, except people like you.
lol you qouted me

Reenk Roink

03-23-2006, 04:07

Arrogance of Europe? I'd be more worried about the arrogance in our own country Reenk...

*!Warning! sarcasm alert: Pretend you are in the France vs. Texas thread*

I've posted enough on that mate. Besides, European arrogance is different from American. At least we can put our money where we put our mouth, European (and by that I mean mostly French) arrogance is just baseless, though their imperial glory has waned, the upturned noses haven't.

By the way, I voted "Gah" but count me for Texas, this forum is Euro-centric :tongue2:...

Alexanderofmacedon

03-23-2006, 04:11

Well, I live in Texas, so don't accuse me of not knowing what I'm talking about...

Reenk Roink

03-23-2006, 04:40

Well, I live in Texas, so don't accuse me of not knowing what I'm talking about...

Never did that mate... :bow:

The sarcasm alert was to avoid a potential flame war with my European brothers...

Alexanderofmacedon

03-23-2006, 04:57

Good idea!:2thumbsup:

Crazed Rabbit

03-23-2006, 07:12

You "iaagnorant" fool, I was refering to Bopa's statement, not yours. Bopa's former tag read "Angry at the PC movement." You are too damn silly and funny to offend anyone. Plus, everyone knows you never mean it. Yesterday in chat you said "I love the holocaust" and followed it up with "doesn't mean I believe in it." If you were anyone different, I would come down on you @$$ faster than the po-po on Rodney King.

I do say, it looks like someone's got his undies in a bundie.

Crazed Rabbit

BigTex

03-23-2006, 07:16

Originally posted by Tribesman
You cannot disarm our friend Mr. Martin along with all the law-abiding, taxpaying citizens out there without leaving them defenseless to criminals.

Well disarm the criminals then , that is what you pay you police for isn't it .
But then again in this case he wasn't a criminal until decided to commit a crime with his gun was he , just like those that go postal arn't criminals until they get annoyed at work , or the schoolkids who decide they don't really like the other kids at school and go on a murder spree .

You are stuck with it ,you have to have guns because the criminals have guns , and the criminals have to have guns because you have guns .

I always ask you gun seizure types how do I defend myself
Gun seizure types
How do you defend yourself Don ? Are you living in constant fear ? Are you ready every moment of the day and night ?
If not then the criminal has got the drop on you , he is ready when he is doing his "job" .
So all your gun gives you is a false sense of security .

First of all you cannot disarm all the criminals, there are far too many ways of getting a gun. Second of all the gun isnt the problem in any of your references, its the person and their mental state. You seem to forget that the gun is in animate and does not kill people, it is the person behind the gun that kills them. Taking a gun away from everyone wont stop deadly crime, they will simply use different tools. Lets remember in Columbine the two kids had planned to cuase much more death through bomb using propane tanks. The Oklahoma City bombing didn't even involve guns, all they needed was some fertilizer and diesel. It isnt the gun that kills, it is the person, you'd get a bigger effect from having everyone go through manditory psych screenings yearly instead of banning guns. Saying that crazy geezer would have not killed that kid if guns were banned is insane. He was at point blank range, a rolling pin would have done the trick.

To all you who think guns are only needed for self defense. I say come on, thats just one tool in defending oneself. I've had my home broken into once in my life and there wasnt a gun around, but a 45lb weight bar did the trick. A gun is just a tool to use in many situations much like a knife or pepper spray.

Originally posted by Wakizashi
(aside from those **** poachers that give everyone else a bad name )

I personally hate the hunters who go after deer just for the large antlers, or just to have a stuffed deer in their living room, disgusting.

STFS I've lived next to people who have had some pretty large arsenals also and never had a shooting. I've spent a good lot of time at gun ranges and havent even seen a gun injury that seem to be so rampant according to these gun seizure types.

Tribesman why do you insist on demanding our laws change? You don't live here, maybe its time to stop looking at other countries and start focusing on how you can better your own.

Tribesman

03-23-2006, 09:04

Tribesman why do you insist on demanding our laws change?
Hmmmm.....another one that cannot read:laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:

Husar

03-23-2006, 10:52

English assassin

03-23-2006, 11:30

Ahh, success.

Goof, Louis, EA, I respect you gents and usually your opinions. This is a sad travesty. But do you really think if he didn't have a gun, this 'poor old pensioner who didn't know any better' wouldn't have just put a carving knife in the kid's chest?

Actually DC I do think that. To quote the great American, Batman, "We kill so often because we make it too easy" (Somewhere in the Dark Knight Returns). I think the mental barrier to overcome before sticking a knife in someone is higher than pulling a little curved metal bar.

As I said before I am not in fact anti gun. I am a member of a rifle club and I shoot regularly. If I want my own firearm (and sooner or later I do, club guns being what they are), I have to have a criminal record check, the police take up two detailed references, and the club must confirm I have at least served a probationary period, shoot regularly, and that I know how to handle firearms safely. Then the police visit your home and inspect the gun safe where you plan to keep the rifle and if all is in order, hey presto, you get your FAC, good for five years.

In so far as I have a view on Americans and guns (other than that so long as they don't point them at me I don't really care) its trying to understand why they seem genuinely to think that a system like that some gross infringement of their liberty. I mean, DC, you're a reasonable guy (aw, shucks), Ok, there's some forms to fill in, but really, how is that going to impact on your use of your guns? Its just enforcing responsible gun ownership. It might or might not stop a criminal who would otherwise have a gun from getting one, but it certainly does help keep them out of the hands of crazy old coots who shoot teenagers for walking on the grass.

Vladimir

03-23-2006, 13:38

[/IMG]

https://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e331/Thammure/front_rifles.jpg
I know an M-82 isnt even close to a shotgun or a deer rifle, just a personal favorite.

Speak for yourself Tex! We don't want that poor deer living in pain after a tiny bullet hits it do we?

mystic brew

03-23-2006, 16:30

so.... this thread is a mess, isn't it?

just to try to get some facts in the debate... does anyone have any actual figures on how many people die in america from gunshot wounds each year?

and how many in, for example, Europe do? and whether the overall level of crime and violent crime is higher than in areas where people are entitled to carry a gun in self defence?

Crazed Rabbit

03-23-2006, 17:57

As I said before I am not in fact anti gun. I am a member of a rifle club and I shoot regularly. If I want my own firearm (and sooner or later I do, club guns being what they are), I have to have a criminal record check, the police take up two detailed references, and the club must confirm I have at least served a probationary period, shoot regularly, and that I know how to handle firearms safely. Then the police visit your home and inspect the gun safe where you plan to keep the rifle and if all is in order, hey presto, you get your FAC, good for five years.

Do you have to check with the police to practice free speech, and let them review what you're going to say?

just to try to get some facts in the debate... does anyone have any actual figures on how many people die in america from gunshot wounds each year?

Around 15,000 are killed by other people, including self defense, gang warfare, police shootings, etc. Over 15,000 use guns to kill themselves. It is estimated 1,000,000 to over 2,000,000 people use guns each year to defend themselves.

and how many in, for example, Europe do? and whether the overall level of crime and violent crime is higher than in areas where people are entitled to carry a gun in self defence?

I don't know about Europe, but crime is usually lower in states that have fewer restrictions on gun owning and carrying. Try reading More Guns, Less Crime, and studies by Professor Gary Kleck. One interesting example is Vermont and Washington, DC. DC has basically banned guns for 30 years, and in Vermont you can carry a concealed gun on you without a permit. Yet for all the federal law enforcement agencies in DC, they have a murder rate much higher than Vermont, and an absolute amount much higher, too. Of course, Chicago, another city that does its utmust to ban guns, competes with DC for most murders a year.

Crazed Rabbit

Give it up, folks. The Euro Anti-Gun types are too busy frothing at the mouth for this to be a meaningful dicussion. Just look at the way they've been ignoring large swaths of text in order to make a butchered point. The way they resort to personal attacks. There's no winning here. Let's just all thank whatever god there is that they live in Europe, and not America. Even most liberals see the need for Guns here.
Amen to that.

English assassin

03-23-2006, 18:28

Do you have to check with the police to practice free speech, and let them review what you're going to say?

Yeah. It's a little known fact that Oscar Wilde needed a permit for his lethal wit. That time he served in Reading jail was nothing to do with being gay, he accidently discharged an epigram in a public place.

:inquisitive:

BigTex

03-23-2006, 18:37

Speak for yourself Tex! We don't want that poor deer living in pain after a tiny bullet hits it do we?

Suppose your right. Let the .50 cal incendiary rounds rain death upon those deer! Let no edible piece of deer remain!:antlers: :antlers: :rifle: :san_laugh: :rifle:

Kanamori

03-23-2006, 19:07

Of course, Chicago, another city that does its utmust to ban guns, competes with DC for most murders a year.

For some reason, I don't think that has much to do with the fact that they do their 'utmost to ban guns', and more to do with the gangs that kill each other. I remember seeing somewhere that in LA and Chicago, gang-related homicides accounted for more than fifty percent of all homicides in those cities.

Tribesman

03-23-2006, 19:09

The Euro Anti-Gun types are too busy frothing at the mouth for this to be a meaningful dicussion.
Yet another one that doesn't get it :no:

Big tex . Some of what you wrote is quite good , quite well thought out definately better than people posting the same useless comparrisons straight from gun nut weekly that some have made .
This comment however....
Hmmmm.....another one that cannot read... is because you either havn't read what I wrote or you do not understand it .

I am a member of a rifle club and I shoot regularly.
Wow a european shoots , damn, that must be really unusual .
Buy a gun EA then you can join the european gun owners in favour of firearm regulation club :2thumbsup:
So do any of the other frothing at the mouth anti gun , ban them all , europeans here own a gun or go shooting ? or in case of age restrictions , do any of your parents ?
Oh , I forgot . Europeans don't have guns , Europeans hate guns , European governments ban their citizens from owning guns :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:
Perhaps Goofball can have honourary European citizenship so he can join the club , you do own a gun don't you .