Does anybody know this fresco?

[cunctator]

https://img472.imageshack.us/img472/1084/hak28jp.jpg

The accompanying text says it's from the Crypta Afreschi in Aquileia. Does anybody here knows more about it, especially it's age?

[edyzmedieval]

From what I remember, Odovacar and his heruls conquered Aquileia after a long siege. It might represent that, because heruls had bows and horses.

[Aenlic]

I don't know if Odovacer attacked Aquileia, but Attila certainly did, in 452 - sacked and burned it. So, I'd guess it to be a depiction of a Hun shooting at a Roman lancer. Then again, it could be Hun or Ostrogoth or Visigoth or Vandal, all of whom came through the area over the course of the late 4th and into the 5th century. It could even be a Marcomanni warrior, since they attacked Aquileia in 167 or so. Or perhaps a Lombard from the 6th century.

[Idomeneas]

the shield looks Norman to me so it may be something from early crusades. Plus there are stirups attached to the sadle

[Kraxis]

The eye of the lancer certainly has a similarity to certain medieval depictions (the brow high over the eye, making the person look half surprised half concerned).

[rotorgun]

While I was unable to find any direct information about this particular Mural, if it was from the Crypt in Aquileia, it had to be done in about the 12th century. There was a monk who appearantly painted numerous murals in the Crypt as a pious act. I was unable to track it down, but there are some good (and expensive) books availabel about the artwork of the Aquilean Crypt. It is definately a crusader knight chasing after a fleeing Muslim horse archer. From the looks of the arms and armor it is probably from an early crusade. Perhaps about 1099 or prior. Perhaps the painting was begun by one of the monk/warriors that were so prevelant during that time?

I have an old book somewhere around about the crusades. I'll see if I can find out more about it. It looks familar to me somehow. Where did you find it? It sure is a beauty.

[Aenlic]

Remember that artists tended to depict ancient scenes in contemporary dress. An artist in the 12th century is going to use what he knows to depict an ancient scene. Even the great masters of European art did it, depicting Biblical scenes in late Renaissance dress. I'd be more inclined to think it a depiction from Aquileian history with modern, for the time, dress than a depiction of an event less than 100 years old at the time.

[rotorgun]

Remember that artists tended to depict ancient scenes in contemporary dress. An artist in the 12th century is going to use what he knows to depict an ancient scene. Even the great masters of European art did it, depicting Biblical scenes in late Renaissance dress. I'd be more inclined to think it a depiction from Aquileian history with modern, for the time, dress than a depiction of an event less than 100 years old at the time.

Indeed. I should have recalled that. Still, they also depicted contemporary scenes as well, no?

[Aenlic]

They did indeed. It's a bit of a toss-up. To my mind, anyway, it just seems as if the Crusades would be much too recent an event to go on a fresco in a tomb in Northeastern Italy in the 12th century. Then again, since Venice was certainly one of the major shipping points from Europe to the Crusades, it makes sense as well. It's possible, maybe even likely, that it is the tomb of someone associated with the Crusades.

[cunctator]

Thanks for all the replies. The fresco is from "Sphinx: Geheimnisse der Geschichte" (secrets of history), the companion book to an early 90ties german tv documentary series spanning from the king minos over Hannibal, Cleopatra and the huns to the lost amber room. The author date it to the 5th century AD and claims it is from an eyewitness of the wars with the huns. The book isn't very sorrowly researched and there are quite a lot errors and inaccuracies in it, especially in the hun chapter. Thus probably their dating is onyl speculation because they needed something like this.

[rotorgun]

Danke Herr Cunctator,

Just curious, but don't the arms and armor of the knight look a bit out of place for the 5th century? They appear to be Norman or Frankish in appearance. The long pointed footwear is a bit medieval as well. I can't quite make out the face of the knight to tell if the helmet has a nasal guard or not, but I think both types were in use in the early middle ages. I have seen some plates of early Germanic soldiers with this type of equipment, so it could be a representation of the late Roman period heavy cavalry. Too bad that the mural wasn't more completed.

[cunctator]

That's why I don't believe the book when it says 5th century AD. For me a medieval background is much more likely, and I wanted to hear some independent opinions. Helmets with nasal guards were used in late roman times and the soldiers partily looked very medieval but the overall apearance of the lancer and especially the shield doesn't fit into the period.

[rotorgun]

While this is a stretch, it could be a rendition that was begun to depict a momement during the battle of Chalons. While not definative, the other figure could pass for a Hunnish bowman; he could pass for a Hun and they were known for this type of manuever; but then again, so were the Turkish horsearchers as well. There was a pretty big battle in Anatolia early in the crusades where a crusader army was defeated by such tactics. Do you recall the name? It was a mixed bag of Europeans there as well, along with some German knights.

[cunctator]

I think at Dorylaeum in Anatolia 1097 against the seljuks the crusaders encountered great numbers of horse archers the first time. It finally was a victory for them but with very high casualties.

[rotorgun]

I think at Dorylaeum in Anatolia 1097 against the seljuks the crusaders encountered great numbers of horse archers the first time. It finally was a victory for them but with very high casualties.
Thank you, I've been trying to remember that for some time. Do you think this could be a rendition of a moment in the battle?

[Avicenna]

My opinion's probably of no value as I'm no history scholar, but that does look more like a crusader than a Roman Legionary to me.