View Full Version : Mexican flag burned at a High School...
Devastatin Dave
03-31-2006, 19:47
http://www.azstarnet.com/allheadlines/122555
Well, looks like things are getting interesting. I say the kids that burned the flag should not be disciplined but commended. A foreign flag should NEVER be flown in the United States at a public school over the US flag or instead of the Stars and Stripes. What's you opinion?
I'm always puzzled by flag burning. As anybody who made it through boy scouts should know, burning is the correct way to dispose of an old flag. So it always seems like people are saying, "I am so angry at this country, I will now respectfully dispose of it in the proper manner! So there!"
Maybe if they want to indicate disrespect they should put the flag through a big shredder. Or cover it with cheese. Or stuff it in their underwear for a week. Tie the flag around a burro and send it into the wilderness. Something.
Does this ever bother anybody else, or am I being way too picky?
Devastatin Dave
03-31-2006, 20:04
I'm always puzzled by flag burning. As anybody who made it through boy scouts should know, burning is the correct way to dispose of an old flag. So it always seems like people are saying, "I am so angry at this country, I will now respectfully dispose of it in the proper manner! So there!"
Maybe if they want to indicate disrespect they should put the flag through a big shredder. Or cover it with cheese. Or stuff it in their underwear for a week. Tie the flag around a burro and send it into the wilderness. Something.
Does this ever bother anybody else, or am I being way too picky?
I agree somewhat. Man, that's a good idea about the cheese. They could have rolled it up like a barrito with cheese.:laugh4:
Don Corleone
03-31-2006, 20:12
I like how the article describes students walking out on classes as "a new political awareness". Sorry, when students walk out on classes, it's always about walking out of classes. The political issue du'jour is always just the excuse. Can anyone say 'extra senior-skip-day that underclassmen are invited along'?
master of the puppets
03-31-2006, 20:16
...i would have done the same thing, this is america, it belongs to americans, if they wish to see a mexican flag raised then they must consider themselves mexican before american, and if they love being mexican so much go back to your little dirt hole of a country:furious3:. honestly i would have no problem seeing there flag but never, ever held in higher esteem than the old glory, not on this soil, not on our land.
Duke Malcolm
03-31-2006, 20:35
I am currently endeavouring to have my school's Rector fly the Union Flag on those days that Her Brittanic Majesty requests and requires that the said flag must be flown from all public buildings. And that other flags be flown on their respective days such as Her Majesty requires i.e. the Red Ensign on Merchant Navy Day (3/9)...
a flag is a flag, i cant really see the significance of flag waving, display and burning (although it probably saves on the electrics bill)
Justiciar
03-31-2006, 20:43
Aumen. I don't get flagfetish tbh. It's just a piece of cloth with a few colours on it.. then again I don't understand American "patriotism" in the slightest, and they both seem pretty much intertwined.
Vladimir
03-31-2006, 21:44
I am currently endeavouring to have my school's Rector fly the Union Flag on those days that Her Brittanic Majesty requests and requires that the said flag must be flown from all public buildings. And that other flags be flown on their respective days such as Her Majesty requires i.e. the Red Ensign on Merchant Navy Day (3/9)...
At first I thought this was a bit :dizzy2: .
Aumen. I don't get flagfetish tbh. It's just a piece of cloth with a few colours on it.. then again I don't understand American "patriotism" in the slightest, and they both seem pretty much intertwined.
But this gets :dizzy2: :dizzy2: :dizzy2: . If no one told you what your flag represents and you don't understand patristism; I'm sorry friend, there's no hope.
Kaiser of Arabia
03-31-2006, 23:00
The kid who raised the flag should be arrested.
The kids who burned it should be given Presidential Citizens Medals.
This is America. Not Mexico. And the kids who beseiged our school under a flag of a foreign power should be treated as what they are; traitors.
Anyone who cares is a douche.
AntiochusIII
03-31-2006, 23:09
But this gets :dizzy2: :dizzy2: :dizzy2: . If no one told you what your flag represents and you don't understand patristism; I'm sorry friend, there's no hope.:laugh4:
Hope for what?
And no, I didn't walk out today, even though, as the Don pointed out, many students agree that walkout protest is an excellent rise in political awareness--another excuse out of the damn classes. :idea2:
In other news, I love flag-burning. It's just so fun, and offensive, which is why it's fun.
Ianofsmeg16
03-31-2006, 23:24
I am currently endeavouring to have my school's Rector fly the Union Flag on those days that Her Brittanic Majesty requests and requires that the said flag must be flown from all public buildings. And that other flags be flown on their respective days such as Her Majesty requires i.e. the Red Ensign on Merchant Navy Day (3/9)...
We always have The Three Legs flying at our school, three of them in fact
:isleofman: Quocunque Jeceris Stabit :isleofman:
Whithersoever you throw it, it will stand
As for this burning thing, I'm in two minds, For one thing they shouldnt have been burning the flag of a country where there is a large population of immigrants from said country, thats just stupidity
But yeah, they really shouldve been flying the stars and bars:2thumbsup:
Evil_Maniac From Mars
03-31-2006, 23:45
The Hispanics were also responding to what I presume were racial insults (read the article). I think both should be punished equally.
It's not like you're supposed to have a lighter at school either...:inquisitive:
Tribesman
03-31-2006, 23:59
A foreign flag should NEVER be flown in the United States at a public school over the US flag or instead of the Stars and Stripes. What's you opinion?
Your article has a 16 year old saying that he heard that the flag was higher , is there any comfirmation on that actually happening ?
Capo , you talk of treason and such . There was this fire truck in a Columbus day parade , it had a pair of those flags that you fix on vehicles on its roof , stars and stripes flavour of course , and on the side that I was on it had a huge stars and stripes covering a good part of the side (I guess it had a matching one the other side ) , on a big staff flying above them all was the Italian flag , isn't that treasonous ?
Flags , patriotism , what a load of crap:no:
Flag burning patriotism , small minded feckwits , you see extremist idiots doing it all the time :shrug:
Don Corleone
04-01-2006, 00:14
I wish people didn't burn flags: USA's or anyone elses. That being said, people will do it no matter what you do. Ask them not to nicely, but there's not much else to do...
Justiciar
04-01-2006, 00:36
But this gets :dizzy2: :dizzy2: :dizzy2: . If no one told you what your flag represents and you don't understand patristism; I'm sorry friend, there's no hope.
What does my flag represent? If I did know, would I like what it represents? Do I feel that my nation can be summed up by a piece of cloth? I can only answer the last one. No.
As to patriotism.. I don't get it because it's a foreign concept to me. Yeah, I understand the meaning of the word, and I understand that it afflicts other people, but I've never been a flag-waving "God bless you ma'am", type of person. Patriotism in the US gets me even more confused because of how strict it seems to be.
Marcellus
04-01-2006, 00:47
I can understand taking the Mexican flag down, but burning it is rather over the top, and is hardly going to calm the tensions that seem to exist in the school.
Watchman
04-01-2006, 00:54
I seem to recall seeing it mentioned somewhere national flags ultimately developed from battlefield standards and banners, a means of telling "us" from "them".
With such esteemed lineage, I don't hold them in terribly high regard.
And jingoist American nationalism, particularly when it has anti-Mexican undertones, is certainly a most unbecoming thing in grown people. Not that other national variants were particularly more palatable.
But then again, I consider all the smear-throwing and wrangling over this-and-that Congressman's or President's or P. Candidate's military awards Americans seem to delight in a symptom of unhealthy fixation with and glorification of military symbolism, and by extension a lot of things I prefer not to go into because they make me feel icky. After all, they wouldn't bother if it wasn't considered important. I'd guess the flag issue really goes under the same category.
Ahh - that happy America without racism and discrimination....:laugh4:
Accordingto the next post
I'm pround from my flag
White - Reds is best flag ever.
Easy to make, makes feat everywhere!!!
Byzantine Prince
04-01-2006, 00:56
Flags in general are unpatriotic in my opinion. They are just designs made by a person a long time ago, and usually randomly at that. There is nothing there to be proud of.
Big King Sanctaphrax
04-01-2006, 01:03
Anyone who cares is a douche.
This made me titter.
All the same, it is concerning that the students felt such an overtly provocative response was a good idea. I couldn't good two hoots about the actual flag issue.
Pannonian
04-01-2006, 01:15
http://www.azstarnet.com/allheadlines/122555
Well, looks like things are getting interesting. I say the kids that burned the flag should not be disciplined but commended. A foreign flag should NEVER be flown in the United States at a public school over the US flag or instead of the Stars and Stripes. What's you opinion?
Are you against the Confederate flag or the Lone Star being flown?
SwordsMaster
04-01-2006, 01:34
It's one thing to fly it for a holiday. It's another thing to claim a public building as a little piece of Mexico because a bunch of immigrants don't want to assimilate.
Yeah. I mean. Americans should go there and assimilate them all. Mexico has some oil, surely.
As of being a "little piece of Mexico"... a third of the US population speaks spanish. A flag or the absence of one doesn't change anything. A third of the country is a little bit more than a little piece.
SwordsMaster
04-01-2006, 01:52
Where the hell do you get a third? It's not even a fourth. And a large quantity of that is illegals, who should be booted out anyway. When you come to America, you're agreeing to be an American. Spanish is fine, but they should be learning english as well, and certainly ensuring that their children learn english. Flying the Mexican flag in schools is not fine.
Well, noone can force them to learn english more than force them to learn corean, so that is up to them.
How is it possible that a country formed with emigrants from the whole world is so closed to other emigrants?
Fine, a school is government property and all, I see your point.
Is it fine to fly a mexican flag above your house?
solypsist
04-01-2006, 02:02
public schools still fly confederate flags - and yet i see no outrage over that. i imagine if someone took one of those down and burned it there'd be many irateusers here wanting the burner jailed. this sort of thread is rife with potential double standards.
Big King Sanctaphrax
04-01-2006, 02:02
Flying one over your house is just as disrespectful, in my opinion
Is it just the Mexican flag you feel this way about, or does that include others too?
If I moved to the US, for example, but flew the Union flag over my property, would you consider that disrespectful?
they deserve whatever happens to them. Be it a race riot or a flag burning.
How on earth can you deserve a race riot?
Watchman
04-01-2006, 02:10
This thread stinks of pungent jingoism and barely concealed racism, IMO. Which doesn't surprise me one bit given the topic, and duly does nothing to improve my abysmally low opinion of nationalism and the associated paraphenelia which people insist on taking altogether too seriously.
I'm really starting to see where that Sleuthing the Alamo book got its part about the developement of anti-Mexican sentiments from...
Alexander the Pretty Good
04-01-2006, 02:19
Question - since you're not big on nationalism, can I have your country plz????
Watchman
04-01-2006, 02:23
Nah. I happen to like living in it.
AntiochusIII
04-01-2006, 02:34
Not to specifically pick on you, but...
We are not closed to immigrants at all! America was built on Immigrants who have accepted their new home with grace. Assimilating into the country and helping to make it what it is today. Many Mexican immigrants refuse to do that, which is detrimental. These are the same ones who fly a Mexican flag in a school.Revisionist. "American" (often the self-proclaimed "morally superior" bunch) efforts to "assimilate" (discarding "un-American" practices, the term of which changes continuously) the immigrants, and the immigrants' efforts to preserve their native culture--not too mention the violence often involved in nativist riots--are, if I am so bold to claim, an integral part of American history.
The Mexicans are just today's Irish, Eastern Europeans, Japanese, etc.
Flying one over your house is just as disrespectful, in my opinion. It signals to me that this person is an ungrateful twit. But it's their right to be an ungrateful twit, especially in their own home. Which makes it all the worse, I suppose, since they're taking advantage of American rights and generosity.Well, you could actually care less...
...flags are what you think what they are, nothing more.
Flying the CSA is harmless. It doesn't exist any more. Mexico, however, is very real and very nearby.Are you indirectly claiming that there's actually a plausible threat of the Mexican takeover of American lands!?
Mongoose
04-01-2006, 02:38
As of being a "little piece of Mexico"... a third of the US population speaks spanish. A flag or the absence of one doesn't change anything. A third of the country is a little bit more than a little piece.
Question; when you say that 1/3 of the US speaks Spanish, are you refering only to Meixicans, or are you lumping people who learned it as a second language into the same group, despite the fact that they are in no way connected to Mexico?
Tribesman
04-01-2006, 02:39
Flying the CSA is harmless. It doesn't exist any more.
Damn , I could have sworn that you had confederate political parties over there , you know the ones that want southern independance , use the stars and bars instead of the stars and stripes .
Better tell them that they lost their war just like the mexicans and they had better get rid of them flags eh :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:
Watchman
04-01-2006, 02:41
What a coincidence. I happen to be living in America, and wouldn't like it to be turned into another Mexico.
:help:The connection with a bunch of coloured rags somewhat eludes me.
I'm also somewhat less than convinced by the "hyperpower under siege" postulation and mentality involved.
Kaiser of Arabia
04-01-2006, 04:24
A foreign flag should NEVER be flown in the United States at a public school over the US flag or instead of the Stars and Stripes. What's you opinion?
Your article has a 16 year old saying that he heard that the flag was higher , is there any comfirmation on that actually happening ?
Capo , you talk of treason and such . There was this fire truck in a Columbus day parade , it had a pair of those flags that you fix on vehicles on its roof , stars and stripes flavour of course , and on the side that I was on it had a huge stars and stripes covering a good part of the side (I guess it had a matching one the other side ) , on a big staff flying above them all was the Italian flag , isn't that treasonous ?
Flags , patriotism , what a load of crap:no:
Flag burning patriotism , small minded feckwits , you see extremist idiots doing it all the time :shrug:
Was it a Parade, or something meant to be permenant?
Also, was the Firetruck a public building?
Two very different things.
In other news, can I come to Finland, take down the finnish flag over whatever you have as a congress/whitehouse type deal, and fly the Stars and Strips?
Soulforged
04-01-2006, 05:23
Flying the CSA is harmless. It doesn't exist any more. Mexico, however, is very real and very nearby.
How is that flying a flag, carrying a certain sign, or shouting certain things, will change your country from USA to Mexico? Really the strange connections that can be done when one is willing to look for them. And advice on further discussions, culture is not something stagnant and something that you can ancor forever, as a tradition, traditions are part of culture, however that doesn't mean that certain traditions cannot live together with others. Your culture will change, probably assimilating mexican and canadian culture, mexican culture will (and is in fact already merged in plains like music) assimilite yours, my culture will take a portion of every culture around the world. Today we live on that world, we've to accept that times of isolation and rigid traditions are over, probably forever. Is this really something to worry about? No, your economy will still be the same, and you and other "natives" would still believe in your ideals and practice your traditions, there's nothing on multiculturalism that obstaculizes that.
Divinus Arma
04-01-2006, 05:34
public schools still fly confederate flags - and yet i see no outrage over that. i imagine if someone took one of those down and burned it there'd be many irateusers here wanting the burner jailed. this sort of thread is rife with potential double standards.
True. However, and you may correct me if I am wrong, I believe this flag is flown below the U.S. flag.
Zalmoxis
04-01-2006, 05:35
Anyone who cares is a douche.
Yes, this whole thing Americans have with flags is too bizarre to bother.
Alexanderofmacedon
04-01-2006, 07:16
Don't know why he'd put the flag up in the US. I don't think it's wrong, but I don't see any point. It's just stupid.
I don't know if you should go as far as burning it though. Maybe taking it down, don't know. I wasn't in the situation.
Strike For The South
04-01-2006, 07:16
Mexican flag burned at a High School...
Good
Major Robert Dump
04-01-2006, 07:27
Mexico has a flag?
I'm going to start a rumor that there are a lot of free flags and tanktops being given away in Mexico, and when the foreign occupiers all run across the border to get some free flags we can, like, shut the door real quick and lock it.
Major Robert Dump
04-01-2006, 07:34
And I think the confederate flag thing varies from area to area, county to county and state to state, but for the most part you will be hard pressed to find confederate flags flying on public buildings.
By most states own rules a capitol flies all the flagsx that have flown over the territory, so it is somewhat ridiculous to leave out the confederate while including the cherokee, the seminole or whatever. If you dont want to hurt anyones feelings, then change the criteria of what flies where, dont just ominously omit one flag while pretending you are following tradition. Change the rules. And if those are the rules, and a mexican flag flew over the territory then so be it, but never to be flown over the national and current state flag.
Anyway, flag burning is a protected from of speech, no matter how tacky. If we can villify our own country by burning its flag, we should certainly be able to villify others by burning theirs. The line has to be drawn at personal property laws though, as you dont burn someone elses flag.
I left skid marks in American flag swimming trunks once, is that treason?
Alexanderofmacedon
04-01-2006, 08:42
Is it just the Mexican flag you feel this way about, or does that include others too?
If I moved to the US, for example, but flew the Union flag over my property, would you consider that disrespectful?
How on earth can you deserve a race riot?
Good points. And how about the Confederate flags, huh? :inquisitive:
EDIT: Did not read post above me before. Sorry. And, no I don't think that would be considered treason Major Dump.
Strike For The South
04-01-2006, 08:46
Good points. And how about the Confederate flags, huh? :inquisitive:
.
different conotations. If they wanna fly a mexion flag fine but below the american one. The only flag that is allowed to be raised just as high is Texas!
Yes we kick that much ass
Im right look it up
Banquo's Ghost
04-01-2006, 09:40
Flying the CSA is harmless. It doesn't exist any more. Mexico, however, is very real and very nearby.
This perspective interests me. The topic at hand, I would argue, is about the symbolism that flags embody. They derived from heraldic emblems, and continue to be invested with that 'us' as opposed to 'them' significance. Regiments in the British Army, for example, still use colours (battle standards) to represent the soul of both current members and their illustrious forebears, and battle honours are proudly sewn into them. Like all symbols, they are invested with as much significance as the group whch adopts them wishes. I would have died for my colour (were they still taken on the field - I'm not that old ~;) ) more so than for my 'country' as the regiment was my family, but most people would not invest such signficance into an ancient piece of cloth.
However, I don't think anyone can deny that they are very powerful symbols, even if you personally do not accept them. Just think about one's emotional reaction to the flag of Nazi Germany - an extreme example perhaps, but illustrative. In the north of my country, flags as symbols of identity for republicans or unionists are widely used, widely abused, and are incredibly provocative to even peaceable communities. Even for me, happy in my free republic, the sight of the Union Flag flying in Ireland gives me a brief twinge of patriotic angst, and I'm several generations away from when it mattered. My grandfather killed and died to get rid of that piece of cloth, but his grandson shouldn't really care, should he? But that old grainy film of the Union Jack being replaced by the tricolour at Dublin Castle still means a lot, to me at least - and this is a very weird state of affairs, for I have served the British flag as well as the tricolour. Ah well, no-one said patriotism was a rational thing ~D
So I can well understand the emotions provoked by seeing the flag of a nation which is causing some contentious issues being flown over a building like a school, and why it is right to remove it forthwith, though without the provocation of burning it. (I like Lemur's perspective of it being respectful though :2thumbsup: )
So, taking this viewpoint further, I have always been intrigued by the apparently acceptable use of the Confederate flag. As an outsider, remember, it strikes me that it is the symbol of a movement that sought to destroy the USA, caused a war that killed many thousands and represents a racist doctrine that must be deeply offensive to many citizens of the US, black and white. To me, an Irishman interested in the US, it is deeply offensive whenever I see it, and is still used in many parts of Europe as a neo-nazi emblem. In the US, which actually suffered the effects of what it represents, it should be reviled as much as the Nazi flag is reviled in Germany, surely?
If we accept the symbolism of flags in terms of representing our countries and values (and therefore defendable, and to some extent sacred) then the Confederate flag should be anathema to all US citizens, and because of its racist symbolism to many fellow citizens (one side of whom may use it as a rallying call for their evil, the other side who are reminded of cruel times) certainly not harmless in any way. :inquisitive:
Ironside
04-01-2006, 10:43
A question:
Does it exist any symbol in America that says "proud Hispanic American"?
Because I've got a feeling that the Mexican flag is used like that in those parts.
Major Robert Dump
04-01-2006, 10:46
I dont care what it means, you dont fly it above the national and state flag. And then you dont whine when it gets burned amidst all the ruckus that is going on now. Putting it above the national and federal flag at a time like this is inviting a confrontation, its entrapment almost. Boohoo a flag got burned, well the protestors held up traffic, lets call it a draw, K?
Banquo's Ghost
04-01-2006, 10:52
The lesson to be taken from our acceptance of the CSA Flag isn't a difficult one. The men fighting for the CSA were Americans, whether they thought it at the time or not. And while the years following the war were to be difficult for everyone, we've come to understand this far down the road that the Confederate Flag is just another American flag. Perhaps symbolizing the very will of the American people to fight for what they think is right, among other (sometimes less savory) symbolisms. It is not the flag of another nation, it's a flag of America.
I can see your point, but I would argue that it is not the flag of the United States of America. Indeed, it was the symbol of a group of Americans that wanted to be other than that which the United States represents - to be another nation entirely. Why is that different in symbolism to Mexicans pleading the 'reconquista' notion and using their flag? After all (if I may split hairs to make a point ~:) ) Mexicans are Americans too.
I don't have any problem with people flying foriegn flags on private property, some people are proud of their heritage and want to fly a flag let them I say. In public schools though the only places I don't mind seeing foriegn flags are in language classes and history classes, otherwise they shouldn't be there despite the pride of whichever student or factulty memeber puts it up.
As for burning it, I don't really care. If people can burn American flags in the US for whatever reason than the should also be allowed to do the same of foreign flags and so long as it's your flag you're burning (your own property, not stolen from someone else).
And there are Union Jacks flying in the US, it's part of the flag of the State of Hawaii. King Kamehameha liked the design when Captain Cook was flying it and adopted it into his own flag. As for the Confederate flags that still fly I thought that the only ones that are still flown over public buildings are the ones that are still part of state flags like the Union Jack is in the Hawaiian flag. I know many states have changed their state flags in recent years to remove the conferate flag but I believe there are a few that are still there.
Tribesman
04-01-2006, 11:13
you dont fly it above the national and state flag.
Putting it above the national and federal flag
If they wanna fly a mexion flag fine but below the american one.
Any confirmation that it was above the US flag yet , or is it just what some kid heard ?
we've come to understand this far down the road that the Confederate Flag is just another American flag.
The Mexican flag is just another American flag , so it the Canadian one .
Haruchai , talking of flags . how do you feel around the 12th when you see tricolours being raised as high as posible up in the 6 ? How do you feel when those highly hoisted flags go up in flames ?
Do you get really elated , do you get really annoyed , or do you just think what a bunch of muppets ?
Banquo's Ghost
04-01-2006, 11:35
[B]Haruchai , talking of flags . how do you feel around the 12th when you see tricolours being raised as high as posible up in the 6 ? How do you feel when those highly hoisted flags go up in flames ?
Do you get really elated , do you get really annoyed , or do you just think what a bunch of muppets ?
I think the muppet thing, just as I think of myself as a muppet for my occasional flashes of nationalism. Ireland has always been cursed by attachment to the past, and I am guilty of that romanticism more than I should be. The 6 have the opportunity to achieve a united Ireland through persuasion and democracy nowadays, and flaunting the tricolour on what is still British soil until they achieve that objective is insulting to the Brits.
Much more important than any of this nasty symbolism is the reality that the border is just a fantasy used by extremists. We're both in the EU, almost everyone travels across the 'border' with as much fuss as it takes to get into Yorkshire from Lancashire. (Probably less ~D ). I run my business in both Eire and the UK.
But I am proud of my country, her struggle for freedom, and my family's part in that. I hope I never let that pride make any one uncomfortable, or allow my nationalism to cloud clear thinking (for more than the odd moment when I sing the national anthem at Twickenham just before beating the English). :bounce:
Kanamori
04-01-2006, 11:37
Well, I don't know how everyone else feels about this, but it makes me laugh when they fly Wisconsin's flag as high as the US flag, if I'm correct, I can even remember several occassions when it has been flying higher than the US flag. Down w/ the Federal government I say. Err... wait, there seems to be a bit of disparity in some opinions... I guess more people like our Federal government than I can remember.:laugh4:
Tribesman
04-01-2006, 11:46
Haruchai , when you have that odd clouded moment do you sing a soldiers song in the language that it was written or that into which it was translated ?
Damn , that patriotism can get confusing .:laugh4:
SwordsMaster
04-01-2006, 11:50
Haruchai , when you have that odd clouded moment do you sing a soldiers song in the language that it was written or that into which it was translated ?
Damn , that patriotism can get confusing .:laugh4:
Imagine that both your parents have different native languages too, and therefore you have 3 native languages (your dad's, your mom's and your own), and patriotism becomes even blurrier. Or hairier. I never know which one defines patriotism better.
Banquo's Ghost
04-01-2006, 12:01
Haruchai , when you have that odd clouded moment do you sing a soldiers song in the language that it was written or that into which it was translated ?
Damn , that patriotism can get confusing .:laugh4:
Yeah, well I said that patriotism wasn't necessarily logical :2thumbsup:
And I sing in Gaelic. And then I sing 'Ireland's Call' in English. And then I would cheer a really good English try (if they ever score one) and go and buy a round or two of beer for my English friends. And I do that when they trash our first Grand Slam opportunity for fifty years at Lansdowne Road. ~:mecry: ~:cheers:
Patriotism can have positive effects too, as long as no-one uses it as an excuse to get out the rocks and pointy sticks.
solypsist
04-01-2006, 16:17
someone raised the mexican flag as an act of protest and it was summarily brought down and destroyed as an act of counter-protest. case closed. let's move on.
I dont care what it means, you dont fly it above the national and state flag. And then you dont whine when it gets burned amidst all the ruckus that is going on now. Putting it above the national and federal flag at a time like this is inviting a confrontation, its entrapment almost. Boohoo a flag got burned, well the protestors held up traffic, lets call it a draw, K?
Watchman
04-01-2006, 16:54
In other news, can I come to Finland, take down the finnish flag over whatever you have as a congress/whitehouse type deal, and fly the Stars and Strips?*shrug* You could try. I daresay the impeccably dressed security personnel would politely but firmly stop you though, and if you made a ruckus the cops would take you in for the night for disturbing the peace or something. The only reason it'd piss me off would actually be the fact I detest US national symbols somewhat more than most others.
Kaiser of Arabia
04-01-2006, 22:17
*shrug* You could try. I daresay the impeccably dressed security personnel would politely but firmly stop you though, and if you made a ruckus the cops would take you in for the night for disturbing the peace or something. The only reason it'd piss me off would actually be the fact I detest US national symbols somewhat more than most others.
I'll bring a division of conscripted infantry with me.
Watchman
04-01-2006, 22:35
Well, just so you know, there's at least a battalion or thereabouts more or less permanently stationed near the capital, and as might be imagined specifically trained for urban combat. And a naval base or two right off the coast.
Although I suspect the cops would arrest your whole lot, thinking them to be some sort of unregistered demonstration...
:balloon2:
SwordsMaster
04-02-2006, 01:06
I'll bring a division of conscripted infantry with me.
also that is a rather childish approach.
Devastatin Dave
04-02-2006, 03:09
public schools still fly confederate flags -
I'd looooove to see your proof on this statement...:book:
Strike For The South
04-02-2006, 03:20
whats wrong with this flag https://img104.imageshack.us/img104/3038/topstories050xl.th.jpg (https://img104.imageshack.us/my.php?image=topstories050xl.jpg) I dont get it.
solypsist
04-02-2006, 04:22
"Mexicans" ?
Those kids were United States citizens.
If the Mexicans want to create a special little flag that symbolizes latino-american pride, they can be my guest. But the Mexican flag is the symbol of an existing nation that most Americans find fault with. Whether it be the illegal immigrants or the drugs or a myriad of other issues.
Kaiser of Arabia
04-02-2006, 04:40
Well, just so you know, there's at least a battalion or thereabouts more or less permanently stationed near the capital, and as might be imagined specifically trained for urban combat. And a naval base or two right off the coast.
Although I suspect the cops would arrest your whole lot, thinking them to be some sort of unregistered demonstration...
:balloon2:
Division > Battalion afaik, and you really love to kill my already bad jokes, eh? :inquisitive:
Watchman
04-02-2006, 16:26
I'm aware of the size difference. I'm also aware of there being a whole slew of military bases within easy reach of the capital - Helsinki is quite possibly the single best defended urban centre in the entire country - and that your division would be up against a better part of the entire Finnish military inside a few hours. Actually, make that long before it reached even the suburbs.
I'm also fully aware the discussion is very stupid and pointless. That's no reason to not go along if I happen to feel like it.
:balloon2:
Kaiser of Arabia
04-02-2006, 19:35
I'm aware of the size difference. I'm also aware of there being a whole slew of military bases within easy reach of the capital - Helsinki is quite possibly the single best defended urban centre in the entire country - and that your division would be up against a better part of the entire Finnish military inside a few hours. Actually, make that long before it reached even the suburbs.
I'm also fully aware the discussion is very stupid and pointless. That's no reason to not go along if I happen to feel like it.
:balloon2:
I'll just buy some Tomahawks then. Kabam.
Watchman
04-02-2006, 20:09
Those cruise missiles, you mean ? It's not like we didn't have SAMs and surface-surface missiles you know. Or combat aircraft.
Look, just bring along an entire army big enough to invade a reasonably sized nation while you're getting out of hand, anything less won't really suffice. You're the one who brought up the idea of bringing foreign troops to a national capital after all.
That weird coastal artillery we've guarding our archipelago and coastline has to trump most anything you can come up with in sheer peculiarity, though. Where else do you find heavily modified Soviet T-somethingorother 100mm tank turrets converted into long-range coastal artillery role (range ca. 15km normally, something like double that with booster systems) ? ~;p
Aaah... how I love to drop into the org every so often to to remember how nuts you yanks are. Total fruit-loops.
Tribesman
04-03-2006, 00:18
Aaah... how I love to drop into the org every so often to to remember how nuts you yanks are. Total fruit-loops.
Look Idaho, this is serious stuff .
Some yanks were getting annoyed that people were saying that they were really mexicans not yanks and they should bugger off back home .
So the yanks that were not really yanks decided that in that case as they were home they should raise an American flag that isn't The American flag .
Then the yanks were were yanks decided that the yanks who were not really yanks were really yanks and shouln't fly an American flag , they should only fly The American flag .
Since a flag is important and should not be disrespected it was decided that the sensible thing to do would be to disrespect a flag by burning it .
Errrrrr.........what flavour were those fruit-loops you mentioned ?:laugh4:
It seems to me from the article that the raising of the Mexican flag was not an attempt to somehow usurp ownership, but a reaction to previous provocation. A student stunt to make or prove a point in other words. Tensions clearly exist in that school and, presumably, the community in which it sits.
Seems to me that a lot of people get their knickers in a twist about things that really don't matter when there are vastly more significant things going on.
Banquo's Ghost
04-03-2006, 11:02
Seems to me that a lot of people get their knickers in a twist about things that really don't matter when there are vastly more significant things going on.
That summarises the Backroom very nicely. ~D
If not life in general. But it has the virtue of being diverting :2thumbsup:
Strike For The South
04-04-2006, 00:46
There are 3200 kids at my school. There was a walkout today. 32 left.
Kaiser of Arabia
04-04-2006, 20:04
Those cruise missiles, you mean ? It's not like we didn't have SAMs and surface-surface missiles you know. Or combat aircraft.
Look, just bring along an entire army big enough to invade a reasonably sized nation while you're getting out of hand, anything less won't really suffice. You're the one who brought up the idea of bringing foreign troops to a national capital after all.
That weird coastal artillery we've guarding our archipelago and coastline has to trump most anything you can come up with in sheer peculiarity, though. Where else do you find heavily modified Soviet T-somethingorother 100mm tank turrets converted into long-range coastal artillery role (range ca. 15km normally, something like double that with booster systems) ? ~;p
I'll get alot of Tomahawks. You can't shoot them ALL down.
BelgradeWar
04-04-2006, 21:32
Taking the flag down seems like an appropriate move, but burning it down seems like overreacting. Won't help the tensions either.
yesdachi
04-05-2006, 15:44
It’s not about the flag burning but about the intended reaction from those who are flying it. By hurting the flag you are hoping to hurt those who are represented by the flag. Kind of like a Yo Mamma joke, you don’t care about your targets momma; you just want to hurt your target.
Must resist … nope, I can’t.
Yo Momm'as like a head of lettuce, always getting picked up by Mexicans.
Most people live in their "country" as a result of migration. No matter how far back your lineage may go you came from somewhere else, given that I dont positively know where human life began. To get so worked up over a something that doesn't belong to anybody, and only exists because we make it, is ridiculous. We are the same thing that came from the same place, where you live does not define who you are. I dont know if anybody will understand this, but it makes sense to me.
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