A Messy Can of Worms - Should the Media be Jailed for Lies?

[Crazed Rabbit]

Continuing from Goofball's thread, which can be found here (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=63081) (now locked, because the title displeased our benevolent moderator Solypsist), it appears a Canadian Conservative MP has proposed criminal punishment for journalists who write lies:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20060331.wtorymedia0331/BNStory/National/home

How do you feel? I think fines would be appropriate, as long as we generally hold journalists to the same standards as everyone else - no special breaks for not 'revealing their sources' when a criminal investigation demands it. But the burden of proof would be high for the government.

Crazed Rabbit

[Banquo's Ghost]

it appears a Canadian Conservative MP has proposed criminal punishment for journalists who write lies:

If all the politicians who tell lies (particularly to journalists so the media then fools the public on their behalf) get imprisoned right alongside, then why not?

[Major Robert Dump]

No. Libel laws already exist, but public officials and public figures are open for any sort of hogwash as the idea is they accept the crap as a part of their job.

While I may not agree with all the criteria to have a solid libel case (malicious intent/financial loss/knowledge it was untrue) you cant put people in jail for bending the truth in most cases of politics, because "truth" is as subjective as a cork in my butt. Not being able to prove something doens't make it untrue, especially with people, and especially cosidering the golden umbrella government hides under while releasing its own untruths.

I'll tell you what, if we prosecute media for untruths, we also prosecute politicians everytime they lie or mislead regarding facts. Think it will fly? Me neither, its not going to happen and when the day comes when the press is prosecuted for a fact that isnt true I'm moving to fekking Nigeria, because people we elect and who are paid by the taxpayers spin the hell out of any and everything, and there needs to be a countermeasure, even if its less than what we want.

Keep it a civil court manner and leave it at that.

[Major Robert Dump]

Continuing from Goofball's thread, which can be found here (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=63081) (now locked, because the title displeased our benevolent moderator Solypsist), it appears a Canadian Conservative MP has proposed criminal punishment for journalists who write lies:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20060331.wtorymedia0331/BNStory/National/home

How do you feel? I think fines would be appropriate, as long as we generally hold journalists to the same standards as everyone else - no special breaks for not 'revealing their sources' when a criminal investigation demands it. But the burden of proof would be high for the government.

Crazed Rabbit


Last I checked we just had a couple journalists spend months in jail for not revealing their sources. The laws you speak of already exist if a judge deems to decide that way. You make press "lies" illegal and you are essentially discouraging anyone from speaking their mind for fear of being wrong or fear of "facts" disappearing. This is fascist garbage, to the bone

[solypsist]

social punishment is often far more effective than law enforcement. think back to mccarthy, who was publicly and drank himself to death. unfortunately we (Western society) are apparently beyond shame and this is no longer an option. if it were, most right wing talk radio hosts (disguised as news programs) would have been tarred and feathered by the masses a long ago.

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

The only reason the American left is clean on the radio talk show front is because you guys also stink at it.

Air something, right? Or what was that thing that lasted 3 days...

[Soulforged]

How do you feel? I think fines would be appropriate, as long as we generally hold journalists to the same standards as everyone else - no special breaks for not 'revealing their sources' when a criminal investigation demands it. But the burden of proof would be high for the government.
Due to problems in the proof system, it was determined that the proof is dynamic. Both parts may present proof, the damnified, the accused and the employer, if they want to fire the accused or defend him. But asking for more than fine is insane, unless we wanna become some sort of facist state.

I'll tell you what, if we prosecute media for untruths, we also prosecute politicians everytime they lie or mislead regarding facts.I don't know how it's up there, but here we usually follow that quote from Plato ("The leaders of the state are the only ones that should have the privelege of lying") to certain degree. For example any congressman that lies or insults another congressman during the session in the congress is exent from all type of punishment. This built up over the idea of realism in politics, wich, of course, presumes that there's gonna be lying, not only to push agendas, but also for the sake of lying.

[rory_20_uk]

Until politicians have far more stringent rules governing their behaviour (no more "forgetting" important facts, or making sure you're unaware of events) then there is no place for attacking journalists.

When budgets can state new provisions which include amounts already earmarked, ignore the fact the increase is over several years I think that something needs to be done. I choose this example as the budget is purely numerical and leaves little wiggle room for "belief".

Perhaps journalists and politicians should have a rank of speaking with different statements carrying different amounts of weight, and hence different severity of the law if they are found to be untrue. For example, "belief" or speculation would be allowed to be almost free of reprisals, but if something is said to be fact then it should be similar ot an academic paper - a small number with references clearly marked at the end of the document so that it can be verified.

When we then see politicians refusing to to have any statement to be risen above the rank of speculation we would see how full of B/S they really are; the other alternative is that politicians are forced to release certainl documents that if found to be untrue can cause the politician in charge of the department to suffer a heavy fine or jail time.

~:smoking:

[Navaros]

Jailing the media for lies would instantly shutdown just about every major newspaper and television network in Canada: all they do is promote an endless barrage of lie-filled leftwing propaganda.

Sounds good to me. Jail 'em all. :2thumbsup:

[Major Robert Dump]

Yeah so why not jail anyone for lies then? Maybe employers who tell you That you will getr friday and saturday off then change minds at last minute? Maybe the restraunt who says they have the best fried chicken in the world? Maybe the candidate who promises one thing then delivers another, or the poliTician who says he didnt poke the candystriper? Lets jail everyone who lies, ignore the fact that the press is a business enterprise, just like a political career or a guy who sells carpet shampoo. Sounds like a great idea

[Banquo's Ghost]

.. all they do is promote an endless barrage of lie-filled leftwing propaganda.

Sounds more like the Gospels to me. Jail all priests and pastors - I'd like to see how they prove their claims to court standards ~;p