View Full Version : Sino-roman realtions
I found this article on wikipedia.I (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Roman_relations) thought might useful infromation for EB.
I found this very intersting
The Chinese have kept an account (by Bau Gau) and claim that some of these soldiers were enlisted by the Hun chief Jzh Jzh against the Chinese Han Dynasty. Some of them were blond with blue eyes, and fought in "fish-scale formation" (which was used by many armies at that time but possibly the Roman testudo formation). These men were captured by the Chinese and were able to found the city Liqian (Li-chien).
I think there should a unit that some far eastern(meaning the far east of the capgian map in EB) faction could recuirt a unit of captured roman legionaries.They would look kind of like the Roman units but they would lighter amor and differn't looking shileds and they could use the fish-scale formation.
GodEmperorLeto
04-02-2006, 06:31
I'm not sure how it could be really useful, since China is waaaaaayyyyy beyond the scope of the game (hell, they're canning the Yuezhi, even), but it definitely is interesting. One of my old professors, a certain Liu Xinru, wrote an article on silk trade into Rome through antiquity and into the Byzantine era.
The world was smaller than people think, even back then. Augustus recieved several Indian rajas' embassies. Hanno(?) voyaged to the Congo where he attempted to trade with gorillas and his account survives in Greek. Ptolemy realized that their known world only encompassed about one quarter to one eighth of the world's surface and was located in the northern hemisphere (he even theorized that there would be two huge continents right where North and South America are).
pezhetairoi
04-02-2006, 06:54
On another note, could we make it so that Baktria gets an event in 100+ BC (i forget when exactly) when its silk road income shoots up? This would correspond when to the time when for the first time the entire silk road came under the control of the Han dynasty, and was therefore free of obstruction to trade. Maybe this could apply to all factions owning pieces of the silk road...
On another note, could we make it so that Baktria gets an event in 100+ BC (i forget when exactly) when its silk road income shoots up? This would correspond when to the time when for the first time the entire silk road came under the control of the Han dynasty, and was therefore free of obstruction to trade. Maybe this could apply to all factions owning pieces of the silk road...
Well that kind of goes against the whole idea of the game being an 'alternate history'. In any given campaign of EB, whose to say what happened then will happen again? Things unfold very differently. Scripted events like that aren't too necessary in my opinion. Now on the other hand, if it could be connected to something to make it go that way, like the upcoming dynamic military reforms, that should be workable.
QwertyMIDX
04-02-2006, 07:30
Well we might be able to make whoever controls the silk road get an increase in profits to reflect devlopments in China. That would still hold to the alternate history idea pretty well I think.
Slider6977
04-02-2006, 07:34
On another note, could we make it so that Baktria gets an event in 100+ BC (i forget when exactly) when its silk road income shoots up? This would correspond when to the time when for the first time the entire silk road came under the control of the Han dynasty, and was therefore free of obstruction to trade. Maybe this could apply to all factions owning pieces of the silk road...
Well that kind of goes against the whole idea of the game being an 'alternate history'. In any given campaign of EB, whose to say what happened then will happen again? Things unfold very differently. Scripted events like that aren't too necessary in my opinion. Now on the other hand, if it could be connected to something to make it go that way, like the upcoming dynamic military reforms, that should be workable.
Because, as has been said, China is wayyyy beyond the scope of the game. There is nothing you can do to change the course of events outside of the game map. Therefore, those events that pezhetairoi stated would happen anyway, with virtually no input from any other more western neighbor (tibet plateau ensures that). This trade route would still exist, really no matter who controls the lands in which it stretches. And the trade goods would still be very popular farther in the west. I think it is a good idea, but thats just my opinion.
Cronos Impera
04-02-2006, 10:22
We could even create Chinease retinues for whoever controls the silk route. If a chinease travelled further west with his waggons of silk to increase his profits he might reach Baktria or the Seleukid Empire and might enstablish himself there.
Of coure it will be an extremely rare event but possible nevertheless.
We could even create Chinease retinues for whoever controls the silk route. If a chinease travelled further west with his waggons of silk to increase his profits he might reach Baktria or the Seleukid Empire and might enstablish himself there.
Of coure it will be an extremely rare event but possible nevertheless.
Hey, that's pretty cool. Maybe cities along the silk road can get this possibility.
GodEmperorLeto
04-03-2006, 04:43
This conversation is starting to parallel this one (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=63031).
Actually, that one is paralleling this one. I posted the silk route thing there after seeing this thread.
janmichaeldave
04-27-2006, 11:35
If you think about it it would be cool to see China in EB, when 2 superpowers collide rome and china hehehe
Steppe Merc
04-27-2006, 12:12
There is no proof that those infantry were Romans. There are Iranians and others in the area that fight as infantry, many who are far fairer than Romans (blonde and blue eyes was not common amongst Romans, but it was amongst numerous Iranian tribes). In addition people cannot just take ancient historians at face value.
Avicenna
04-27-2006, 13:45
I read somewhere that they were captives of the Parthians. There are also people that I know who tell me the same thing: they were Romans who were defeated by horse-riders and came into service of China.
Leto: that's not all, they also guessed that there would be two very cold areas North and South, the poles!
If you think about it it would be cool to see China in EB, when 2 superpowers collide rome and china hehehe
That would be cool but unless there's some starnge event in the spactime contium they never went to war.
pezhetairoi
04-28-2006, 01:18
if there was a problem with the space-time continuum then the Romans would be at war with China...with the People's Liberation Army. Now that would be interesting...how many legionnaires can be rolled over by one tank?
if there was a problem with the space-time continuum then the Romans would be at war with China...with the People's Liberation Army. Now that would be interesting...how many legionnaires can be rolled over by one tank?
What would be cool if the Roman Impire never clapsed and... I got a great Idea!
Rome:Total War:2050?I wonder if that would be a cool idea?Maybe it could be an unoffical modding project for EB?
Homo Sapiens
04-28-2006, 01:44
What would be cool if the Roman Impire never clapsed and... I got a great Idea!
Rome:Total War:2050?I wonder if that would be a cool idea?Maybe it could be an unoffical modding project for EB?
There is a novel, Gunpowder Empire by Harry Turtledove that takes place in an alternate universe where Rome never fell. The novel takes place in about 2090, but it's like the 17th century. Apparently, with all of Europe united under one power, there was never need to change things from their traditional method, there was never an industrial revolution. So now the whole empire has been stagnanting for the past 400 years and you have to literally wade through an ocean of paperwork before you do anything. But they have gunpowder, hence the title.
There is a novel, Gunpowder Empire by Harry Turtledove that takes place in an alternate universe where Rome never fell. The novel takes place in about 2090, but it's like the 17th century. Apparently, with all of Europe united under one power, there was never need to change things from their traditional method, there was never an industrial revolution. So now the whole empire has been stagnanting for the past 400 years and you have to literally wade through an ocean of paperwork before you do anything. But they have gunpowder, hence the title.
That might be a good idea for a mod if you think about. I might start a new thread about that so that it can be discussed weather to make it and to keep this thread form going off topic.
Avicenna
04-28-2006, 13:48
So you'd have China who don't go about conquering people and have advanced technology and a massive Roman Empire in the Renaissance?
What would be cool if the Roman Impire never clapsed and...
The idea has been raised before; and a few days ago someone resurrected this topic (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=53800) about the same subject. The suggestion was dismissed out of hand. The fall of the Roman empire was not caused by one event, but a series of processes (top of my head: economical decline, continious border warfare, regular civil war) that sapped the strenght and stability of the empire. While I won't say Rome was doomed to fall, it seems unlikely that it would have managed to halt or reverse all these processes.
Anyway, the question of what would happen if the empire had never fallen can simply not be answered. It is too long ago for anything but wild speculation. The empire wouldn't have gone into stasis: the world changes and an empire has to change with that, or fall. But how it would have changed we cannot predict.
The idea has been raised before; and a few days ago someone resurrected this topic (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=53800) about the same subject. The suggestion was dismissed out of hand. The fall of the Roman empire was not caused by one event, but a series of processes (top of my head: economical decline, continious border warfare, regular civil war) that sapped the strenght and stability of the empire. While I won't say Rome was doomed to fall, it seems unlikely that it would have managed to halt or reverse all these processes.
Anyway, the question of what would happen if the empire had never fallen can simply not be answered. It is too long ago for anything but wild speculation. The empire wouldn't have gone into stasis: the world changes and an empire has to change with that, or fall. But how it would have changed we cannot predict.
I think if you make up a story about what if the Roman Impire never fell I don't think it would have to be realistic or accurate.
Avicenna
04-29-2006, 08:20
No stories ever have to be realistic. It's just that most of the people at the .org (or at least in the EB subforum of it) prefer realism.
I think if you make up a story about what if the Roman Impire never fell I don't think it would have to be realistic or accurate.
You are absolutly right. My apologies for my harsh tone :embarassed: .
Homo Sapiens
04-29-2006, 15:31
So you'd have China who don't go about conquering people and have advanced technology and a massive Roman Empire in the Renaissance?
Actually, China's in the smae boat as everyone else. They don't make too much mention of other nations, but apparently, the whole of Eurasia divided amongst five gunpowder empires: Rome, with all it's original land plus Germany; Leitvia (sp?), with Ukraine, Belarus, Poland, and European Russia; Persia, with it's original lands up to the Indus; India, with the subcontinent, Sri Lanka, and Tibet; and China, with it's original lands, Korea, Japan, and Southeast Asia.
All the empires are now stagnanting because of the lack of industrial revolution, but there is an anecdote about China and India having repeating rifles.
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