'Gospel of Judas' to be revealed

[rory_20_uk]

Very interesting I thought...


Last Updated: Thursday, 6 April 2006, 14:37 GMT 15:37 UK
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'Gospel of Judas' to be revealed
Engraving of Judas betraying Jesus
Should Christians be respecting Judas?
Judas Iscariot's reputation as one of the most notorious villains in history could be thrown into doubt with the release of an ancient text on Thursday.

The Gospel of Judas, a papyrus document from the 3rd or 4th Century AD, tells the story of Jesus' death from the fallen disciple's point of view.

Alleged to be a copy of an even older text, it casts Judas as a benevolent figure, helping Jesus to save mankind.

The early Christian Church denounced such teachings as heretical.

The 31-page fragile document, written in the Coptic language, was discovered in Egypt in the 1970s.

The National Geographic Society in the US is to publish the first English translation of the text on Thursday and show some of the papyrus pages for the first time.

Breakaway sect

For 2,000 years Christianity has portrayed Judas as the treacherous apostle who betrayed his divine master with a kiss, leading to his capture and crucifixion.


According to the Bible, Judas received 30 pieces of silver for the act, but died soon afterwards.

But the Gospel of Judas puts Judas in a positive light, identifying him as Christ's favourite disciple and depicting his betrayal as the fulfilment of a divine mission to enable the crucifixion - and thus the foundation of Christianity - to take place.

This view is similar to that held by the Gnostics - members of a 2nd Century AD breakaway Christian sect, who became rivals to the early Church.

They thought that Judas was in fact the most enlightened of the apostles, acting in order that mankind might be redeemed by the death of Christ.

As such they regarded him as deserving gratitude and reverence.

Gnostic writers are believed to have set down their contrasting account of Judas' role in Greek in about 150AD, and some believe that this manuscript may be a copy of that.

Records show that the leaders of the early Christian Church denounced that version as heretical in about 180AD.

The Gospel of Judas was found near Beni Masar in Egypt.

In 2000, the Maecenas Foundation for Ancient Art in Basel Switzerland took possession of the document and translation began soon afterwards.

National Geographic struck a publication deal with the foundation last year, thought to have cost $1m (£570,000).

Along with a magazine article, the society will be publishing two books on the Gospel of Judas, and the National Geographic TV channel will be running a special two-hour documentary on the manuscript on Sunday 9 April.

[Soulforged]

The figure of Judas was always surrounded by myth. He was transformed in the class of character that always appears in drama, the traitor. The truth was always less dramatic (as in all cases). This depiction of Judas was perpetuated by the dogma, only because it represented the perfect opposite of all that a man should be, he also represented the final act of attonement.
A depiction that I actually liked was the one showed in the movie "The final temptation of Jesuschrist". The Judas, as it's represented there, is the more loyal of all the disciples. The story tells that actually the betrayal was an act planned by the same Jesus and Judas altogether. From there the famous message in the last dinner. In the movie Judas doesn't die, he lives to remember Jesus of his mission.
On a side note, if can give my opinion, this new gospel could have some influence in the dogmatic level and between some fanatics and regular readers of chrisitian texts, but it will have little effect within the people that only care about the traditional image and are close-minded.
EDIT: On another note, I believe this a clever move by the Catholic Church to apalle all rumors of concealment and lies (or half-truths) about the history of christianity.

[Byzantine Mercenary]

I heard a theory that Judas was in charge of dealings and as such was chosen to make the deal to turn jesus in, his payment being a token payment, like giving a coin for a knife.
the bible makes it clear that according to the bible Judas was a traiter (he was also described as a devil) so if judas is not a trator that would make the modern interpretation of the bible incorect.
The whole issue is not greatly important to me as jesus wanted to be caught anyway so with judas's betrayal or lack of, the result was the same.

[Kraxis]

The gnostic gospels should in my mind be compulsory reading for christian theologists.

But mind you some of them are pretty outlandish, such as Jesus being a brat as a child and abusing his powers pretty badly. But of course among the 'discarded' gospels must be some truths that the four traditional ones do not include. And prhaps the story of Judas might be it, or at least contain some truths.

I'm very much going to watch NGC this sunday.

[QwertyMIDX]

Like the story in the infant gospels when he kills all the other children for telling on him for performing little miracles during the sabath. :dizzy2:

[Zalmoxis]

I've never read the Bible, but hearing the story several times over it starts to appear inconsistent. How is this document going to be published?

[solypsist]

i love it when stuff is discovered in the desert

[Ja'chyra]

I've never read the Bible, but hearing the story several times over it starts to appear inconsistent. How is this document going to be published?

The Bible is inconsistant? Say it's not so :laugh4:



solypsist

i love it when stuff is discovered in the desert

Don't you just, although in this case discovered may have to be in inverted comma's :idea2:

[Kagemusha]

What i heard from Radio today was that the actual Papyrus scroll was already found in 70´s.For some reason it wasnt just studyed properly.Also it dates to around 100+ AD.So it is just another pease of papyrus like the other evangeliums. If i got it right the message was more like Judas wasnt a traitor,but acted from Jesus own will to get gought.

[Duke Malcolm]

I've never read the Bible, but hearing the story several times over it starts to appear inconsistent. How is this document going to be published?

Next near every holy book is inconsistent. Especially if they are written by a variety of folks...

[Kraxis]

What i heard from Radio today was that the actual Papyrus scroll was already found in 70´s.For some reason it wasnt just studyed properly.Also it dates to around 100+ AD.So it is just another pease of papyrus like the other evangeliums. If i got it right the message was more like Judas wasnt a traitor,but acted from Jesus own will to get gought.
Wasn't studied becasue it took that long to extract the info from it.
From around 300AD, but thought to be a copy of an original Greek text from 100-150AD, making it equal in age to three of the four gospels.

And yes the contents are supposedly the positive story of Judas.

[Kagemusha]

Wasn't studied becasue it took that long to extract the info from it.
From around 300AD, but thought to be a copy of an original Greek text from 100-150AD, making it equal in age to three of the four gospels.

And yes the contents are supposedly the positive story of Judas.

Yes Kraxis im being shady once again m8!I try to write post indepth when i get sober enough~:cheers:

[Kralizec]

I heard of this before actually. Should be interesting.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Well I'm reading a book at the moment which suggests that everything in the Bible is a metaphor, and Jesus didn't die on the cross anyway.

I'm not really that interested in this, to be honest.

[Tachikaze]

I think people thought differently back when the books of the Holy Bible were being written and compiled. I think stories had a different purpose and were more allegorical. This is why I think modern people taking the Bible literally are missing the point completely.

I think the story of the Gospels is a lot more meaningful if Judas is a sympathetic character. If he is just evil or the devil, it's like a typical American movie with easily identifiable good and evil characters with black and white hats.

True meaningful stories worthy of 2000 years + popularity demonstrate the depth of human emotions and drives. That the greatest betrayal comes between two people who love and care for each other, both of whom are equally convinced of the righteousness of their actions.

The mainstream modern-day teachings of the Gospels tend to be shallow and childish. They are simplifications and corruptions of a beautiful, thought-provoking, psychologically-sophisticated tale.

[solypsist]

a while back after cecil b demille was done filming the ten commandmands movie, the sets were just abandoned out in the desert and some archeological students "discovered" the more solid structures in the 1980s. you can imagine their surprise and glee until the true facts came to light..

[Divinus Arma]

Gnostic interpretation. Fits well with an electic perspective.


But of course among the 'discarded' gospels must be some truths that the four traditional ones do not include. And prhaps the story of Judas might be it, or at least contain some truths.

Exactly. As with all religious texts. And common themes developed independently of one another provide us with the greatest insight.

[ShadesWolf]

Very interesting, I read about it in the papers last weekend.
I shall be keeping my eye on this

[Kraxis]

Having watched it, it hasn't really changed that much.

It appears to be a very complicated text that is very hard to understand the meaning of. Perhaps that is the reason for it's spectacular lack of success. Also the hype seems to have been more made up from the view John made rather than the one Mark presented, making for a very hard line between Judas and John.

[English assassin]

But mind you some of them are pretty outlandish, such as Jesus being a brat as a child and abusing his powers pretty badly.

I didn't know that. Cool, its sort of Smallville, but for God then?

Anyway, on topic (just about), Jorge Luis Borges has a short story about a man who concludes that Judas is the true saviour of mankind since without his actions Christ would not be crucified, and Judas's sacrifice is much greater (eternity in hell rather than three hours on the cross).

It's just a story, christian dudes. (Borges I mean. No comment on the bible)

[Soulforged]

Anyway, on topic (just about), Jorge Luis Borges has a short story about a man who concludes that Judas is the true saviour of mankind since without his actions Christ would not be crucified, and Judas's sacrifice is much greater (eternity in hell rather than three hours on the cross).
The Three Versions of Judas (http://www.genteloca.com/?id=11249&todas=si)("Las tres versiones de Judas", Jorge Luis Borges). The spanish version on that link, just an small tale.

Precedido por algún alemán, De Quincey especuló que Judas entregó a Jesucristo para forzarlo a declarar su divinidad y a encender una vasta rebelión contra el yugo de Roma; Runeberg sugiere una vindicación de índole metafísica. Hábilmente, empieza por destacar la superfluidad del acto de Judas.After some german, De Quincey speculated that Judas delivered Jesuschrist to force him to declare his divinity and to iniciate a large rebelion against the power of Rome; Runeberg sugests a metaphysic vindication. Skillfully, begins by noticing the superfluity of Judas's act.

El Verbo, cuando fue hecho carne, pasó de la ubicuidad al espacio, de la eternidad a la historia, de la dicha sin límites a la mutación y a la carne; para corresponder a tal sacrificio, era necesario que un hombre, en representación de todos los hombres, hiciera un sacrificio condigno. Judas Iscariote fue ese hombre. Judas, único entre los apóstoles intuyó la secreta divinidad y el terrible propósito de Jesus. El Verbo se había rebajado a mortal; Judas, discípulo del Verbo, podía rebajarse a delator (el peor delito que la infamia soporta) y ser huésped del fuego que no se apaga.The Verb, when it turned to meat, passed from ubicuity to the space; from the eternity to history, from unlimited grace to mutation and flesh; to answer such a sacrifice, a man was necessary, in representation of all man, to perform such a just sacrifice. Judas was that man. Judas, unique within the apostles, discovered the secret divinity and the terrible purpose of Jesus. The Verb degenareted into a mortal form; Judas, disciple of the Verb, who could become a traitor (the worst crime that infamy endures) and be a guest of the eternal fire.

[Moros]

So funny that in Marc's gospil nobody is appointed as the traitor. And that when we put them in chronological sequence we can see that Judas will become more and more "evil". All because the Christians and the jews wanted to distance from eachother. Judas was the symbol and representative for the jews. At first it wasn't so bad. But as the time went by, the more anti-jewish the christians bacame. That's why you see in Marc's gospel that Judas is just about the same as the other apostles. But the last one, the gospel of John, Judas is almost portraited as the devil himself.

The early christians didn' really hate the jews that much, it was more a kind of deffence. Wich later caused a lot of anti-Semitism. While it were the romans who had killed Jesus, it were the jews who always got blaimed and suffered for it. But why were the christians trying to distance from the jews? Because of the romans. Remember what the romans did when the jews revolted for 4 years?

The christians were being killed and tortured by the Romans. People died for their religion or were torturied because of it. But a the time there were so many gospels, all telling a different story. But what was it they believed in then? People were dieing but they did not even know what they believed. Therefore the four were chosen.


The Verb, when it turned to meat, passed from ubicuity to the space; from the eternity to history, from unlimited grace to mutation and flesh; to answer such a sacrifice, a man was necessary, in representation of all man, to perform such a just sacrifice. Judas was that man. Judas, unique within the apostles, discovered the secret divinity and the terrible purpose of Jesus. The Verb degenareted into a mortal form; Judas, disciple of the Verb, who could become a traitor (the worst crime that infamy endures) and be a guest of the eternal fire.
in the gospels of judas, judas betrayed jesus. So he probably would have been the one who actually did. But in the gospels of Judas, it is Judas who is the closest to Jesus. It is Judas who understands jesus, unlike the others. It even was Judas who had to betray Jesus. It is told as if Jesus was captured in his body. ANd that he had to die to get freedom, so his soul could get freedom. The betrayel of Jesus was agood thing in this gospel.

Is that so weird? Jesus said in the chosen gospels "do what you have to do.". Jesus volunteiraly went away with the Romans. In the gospels of judas, Jesus tells Judas about heaven. "A place no angel has seen", he talks about it like if he almost couldn't wait to get there. In the gospel of Judas the betrayel was the most important piece and stopped right after it. While the others it was the death but particulairy the rebirth of Jesus. In these gospels it shows that the body lives on. While in Judas it hints that the body was dead but the spirit would live on.
It's not only the content of Judas' gospel wich suggest that only judas understanded Jesus. If you ask me there are many hints in the others to. Why would he have killed himself, he knew good enough that if he betrayed him he had a big chance of getting killed. Or did Judas killed himself because he knew the true meaning of heaven and of the real god, not the god who created the wolrd...


Hmmm...what difference does it make. I'm not even Christian ::wacko:

[Byzantine Mercenary]

Judas's ''betrail'' was part of the chain of events that happened to jesus, jesus could have stopped these events, he knew what would happen, it was jesus who had the control. whether judas understood it or not his actions were part of gods plan.