Goeben...an enemy then flying (alternative).

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Just re-reading Guns of August and thought of this alternative. I am especially interested in LEN's take on it, though others have fun as well.

Suppose that, at dawn on 8/7/14, using the darkness to close the range, Troubridge's squadron had caught up with and engaged the KM Goeben and KM Breslau, crippling or sinking both vessels for the loss of 2-4 of his ships.

In this scenario, Goeben never makes it to Turkey, Adm. Souchon does not stage an incident that brings about war between the Ottoman empire and Russia [as did happen in late October of 1914 in reality] and Turkey stays neutral [as they were trying to do -- they were also trying to get a little economic windfall from France/Britain for staying out of it, nobody ever said the Ottomans were dumb].

With a neutral Turkey, there are several divisions more Allied troops available for the Western Front in 1915 as well as a few more available in Russia.

There is no Gallipoli, so Attaturk lacks the springboard to greatness he was given in reality.

Ottoman control of the Middle East is not directly affected by the War. If anything, the increasing reliance on petroleum products as a war resource that develops as the war continues provides a modest boon to the Ottoman economy.

What changes do you think this brings?

[Kraxis]

Hmmm... It is highly unlikely that armoured crusiers could have sunk the Goeben when it was hard enough to do so with battleships.

[AggonyDuck]

Yup, especially when the armoured cruisers were hardly faster than Goeben, even with it's boiler troubles.

[Kraxis]

Yup, especially when the armoured cruisers were hardly faster than Goeben, even with it's boiler troubles.
Well, the Goeben was pinned. If Troubridge had decided to press the issue then it is highly likely that a battle might have ensued. But I just don't think there wa much chance his ships could have seriously damaged the Goeben.

[Alexanderofmacedon]

Hmmm...:idea2:

[Csargo]

Hmmm...:idea2:

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...............:dizzy2:

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Well, the Goeben was pinned. If Troubridge had decided to press the issue then it is highly likely that a battle might have ensued. But I just don't think there wa much chance his ships could have seriously damaged the Goeben.

Depended on the opening range at dawn of that day. For sake of argument, I have assumed that the parties sight each other at about 2.0nm (Troubridge's hope) thus allowing his 9.2's to fight Goeben on more equal terms (his lesser ships more than matched the Breslau). Goeben would have been pressed to knock out 4 armored cruisers if it couldn't take them at range 1 by 1.

Obviously, the more likely scenario was a mid-morning long-range engagement, with Goeben having lots of time to fire before Troubridge could close -- which is why he turned round at 4am without pressing it.

The real thrust of my what-if was to have folks explore the ramifications of a different role for the Ottomans.