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Krusader
04-11-2006, 23:59
Greetings Europa Barbarorum fans

We are still working hard at the project and each day brings us closer to a new big update to EB.
The new update will correct more CTDs and bugs, as well as fine-tune some aspects of the mod to make it more historically accurate and enjoyable.
However, we use the term update instead of patch, as it will have much more than just a few fixes here and there. New units and new skins will be added, as well as more traits & ancillaries and building updates.

The team is also working on porting EB to v1.5 which will make the mod even more enjoyable with the new set of options and possibilities that version of R:TW gives us, such as rearranging cultures.
A new steppe government system is also being worked on, which will feature three different options with four advancement levels.

Enough with the introduction, to wet your appetites, here are some images of new units that are going to be in the next update to EB.
And of course, a big thanks to Agart, Alin, Forgus, Psycho V and spirit of rob for making these units. And also a big thanks to the other modellers & skinners who have made many more units we are not showcasing now. Another big thanks to Teleklos Archelaou for the amount of work he's done on steppe governments. And also thanks to Dux Corvanus for the masterpiece at the end of this preview.
Enjoy!!


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https://img146.imageshack.us/img146/3756/dacianrebels25ol.th.jpg (https://img146.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dacianrebels25ol.jpg)
Getai Tarabostes
Mounted war bands comprising warriors provided by the tarabostes families, usually veterans attached to a war chief, in this respect resembling the Gallic nobility, they form the main volunteer force for pillage raids. They are fearsome all-round cavalry, well armored and looking upon war as to a class-affair. Their overconfidence combined with dacian religious beliefs makes these men prone to charge against tremendous odds as long as their chieftain is alive; thus, they lack the discipline required to any elite cavalry, but their traditional ferocity can always turn the tide of battle.

Historically, the tarabostes had a much more independent spirit than any centralised authority would have prefered. Each of the more important tarabostes houses seems to have had its own dava (the equivalent of the oppidum) and they mantained rather large forces at their own expense; their troops were experienced and loyal, bound to their leader through a system of privileges and favors. These proved their worth during Burebista's campaigns against the Boii and Taursicii, when they seem to have had the upper edge over the Celtic cavalry. Still, precisely these forces provided the tarabostes the needed self-confidence when they assasinated Burebista in 44 B.C., upon hearing the news that Caesar no longer threatened the kingdom's borders.

https://img459.imageshack.us/img459/1722/ptokleruc3ue.th.jpg (https://img459.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ptokleruc3ue.jpg)
Kleruchoi Phalangitai - Ptolemaioi
The Ptolemaic and Seleukid kings had a distinct problem in their military administration of far flung empires: namely that the number of ‘safe’ Greek troops was never very large, and had to be carefully used in battle. However, their phalanx had to be maintained, so each Empire designed a novel solution: the establishment of the Kleruchy, or military settlement. Each Kleruch was given a plot of land and some ersatz equipment, as well as a tax reduction, and in turn pledged to fight for the dynasty of his employment. The Kleruchs included, in order of numbers contributed, Jews, native Syrians, Libyans, Persians, Chaldeans, and many, many others. They are armed with the traditional weapons of the phalanx, namely a shield, sword, and pike. Armored with linen, they make up a strong, professional corps that, while not quite as powerful as Pezhetairoi, are at least less expensive.

Historically, Kleruchs made up anywhere from 40-60% of the main phalanx, which freed up many Greeks to fight in more elite units. Many Kleruchs who served in these units were often able to join more prestigious units and be replaced by others, leading to the Kleruch Agema and Galatian Kleruchs and Iudaioi Hippeis under the Ptolemies, or the Argyraspidai, Thorakitai, and Iudaioi Taxeis under the Seleucids. They form a vital link in the chain of a complete army for the Asian and African successor kingdoms, and are not to be discounted. While less intrinsically valuable than Pezhetairoi, they are able to hold a line quite well if properly supported, and can indeed free up your army to include more cavalry and other essentials that would once have been taken up by better and more expensive pikemen.

http://www.krusader.be/eb/roxo-arm_thumb.jpg (http://www.krusader.be/eb/roxo-arm.jpg)http://www.krusader.be/eb/roxo-par_thumb.jpg (http://www.krusader.be/eb/roxo-par.jpg)http://www.krusader.be/eb/roxo-pon_thumb.jpg (http://www.krusader.be/eb/roxo-pon.jpg)http://www.krusader.be/eb/roxo-sau_thumb.jpg (http://www.krusader.be/eb/roxo-sau.jpg)http://www.krusader.be/eb/roxo-reb_thumb.jpg (http://www.krusader.be/eb/roxo-reb.jpg)
Rauxsa-alanna Baexdzhyntae (Roxolani Riders) - Hayasdan, Pahlava, Pontos, Sauromatae & Rebels
The lances used by the Roxolani riders represent a shift of emphasis in Sarmatian warfare from mounted archery and attrition warfare towards fierce charges and shock combat. Equipped with the kontos, a lance over four meters long usually wielded with both hands, and wearing good scale armor, Roxolani lancers can deliver a charge that few foes, mounted or on foot, can withstand, though a solid wall of pike or spear points will still be largely immune to such frontal attacks. Even so, many horse archers still fight alongside them and they themselves also carry bows and are adept at the feigned flight and all the other steppe maneuvers that can throw an enemy into disorder. In addition to kontos, bow, and scale armor, a longsword completes the lancer’s panoply.

Historically, even the first armies of horse archers that emerged from the steppes probably contained a core of heavy cavalry. In this regard, the appearance and spread of armored riders wielding a long two-handed lance represented an innovation in steppe warfare more because of the specialization of their equipment and their greater numbers than by being a radically novel concept. For the Sarmatians in particular, the lancers were a relatively late development. Their first traces come from the Volga area in the third and second centuries BCE, but the troop type does not seem to have spread westward for some time. Moreover, the lancers, though they proved to be an effective complement, never completely superseded the horse archers. Nonetheless, Sarmatian armored lancers made an indelible impression upon Greek and Roman witnesses and eventually became the archetypical Sarmatian image.

http://www.krusader.be/eb/ae-gen.jpghttp://www.krusader.be/eb/arv-gen.jpghttp://www.krusader.be/eb/ca-gen.jpg
Celtic generals' helmets.


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https://img446.imageshack.us/img446/2391/nomadpart2as.th.jpg (https://img446.imageshack.us/my.php?image=nomadpart2as.jpg)
Here is a little sneak peek of the first stages in our new nomadic faction system. Once a nomadic faction conquers a province, they will have to make a decision about either migrating their peoples into it or enlisting the peoples currently in the province as their dependent allies. If they do choose to migrate into the province, another decision will present itself: the player will have to choose whether or not to retain a nomadic lifestyle (not available in all provinces) or to adopt a life there that is more settled and based upon agriculture. Other nomadic buildings aren't shown here, but this will be the most important decisions a player makes when they conquer a new province, and it will determine many other things, such as unit types recruitable there and what types of buildings might be constructed there.


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And as an added bonus, a glimpse of something different:

http://www.krusader.be/occultus.jpg
Start guessing ~;)


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We hope you’ve enjoyed this news update!
Please note that unless stated otherwise, ALL pictures, names, and descriptions shown in our previews are works in progress. We continue to improve on all parts of EB, and we will continue to do so long after our initial release.
Since some areas where these news items are posted cannot handle wide images, we appreciate your restraint from quoting full-size images.
As always, if you have questions or comments, the best place to post them is here, where the EB team is most active:

Europa Barbarorum ORG forum (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/forumdisplay.php?f=70)

Europa Barbarorum TWC forum (http://www.twcenter.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=31)

We give special thanks to Imageshack (http://www.imageshack.us) that provides us with a simple, foolproof, and free way to show you all these pictures each week.

Have a great day!


Sincerely,

The Europa Barbarorum team.

Dooz
04-12-2006, 00:09
Not much can be said about this. It's pretty clear a lot of people have to change their pants after seeing this. The new Celtic general's helmets are... wow... The new faction icon, a new Asian faction to replace the Yuezhi I assume. Nomadic governments, new units, improved everything. Many lives will be consumed by you EB. Many lives, never to see the light of day again. I thank you.

Ergion
04-12-2006, 00:40
Wonderful work :2thumbsup:

Ianofsmeg16
04-12-2006, 00:55
After seeing that Preview, it's safe to say, I need a new keyboard

fallen851
04-12-2006, 01:25
Ahh the dorky hat command contest takes it to a new level...

I'm looking forward to the 1.5 port. Keep up the good work.

soibean
04-12-2006, 01:28
you teases you

paullus
04-12-2006, 03:45
Wow. Thanks for the update. Do we not get a picture of the Tarabostes? Just a description?

The icon looks awesome...some sort of kneeling, stylized elk-lion. Cool beans.

Dooz
04-12-2006, 04:35
There is a picture for the Tarabostes. Try refreshing or something. Pretty cool looking Getic unit too. Would've worked fine my my Getai campaign, psh.

Jarardo
04-12-2006, 04:48
Awesome stuff! The new faction Icon is really nicely done. Syrianish? I can't see the pic of the tarabostes either, but the other ones look great, makes me want to play some different factions. And umm...quit playing oblivion!

vizigothe
04-12-2006, 04:59
Looking forward to the port, keep up the work guys.

nemesisvsbrad
04-12-2006, 07:42
I beleive the new faction icon is for Xionnu or the Huns. The symbol depicted a God-Deer. The ancient Turks and Mongols both worshipped that God-Deer. In Mongolian language BUGA is a deer. When the Turks migrated to the West they became agricultural, semi-nomad people. This deer symbol has another meaning. The ancient nomads believed that god-deer was a goddess and god-wolf was a god and when they married, the nomads were born. Wolf presents harsh reality, danger, murdurious intent, survival skill, glory and victory (dishonorable if it's required). Deer presents love of nature, strong support of justice, favor of underworld lords. These opposing sides create a perfect mix of whole complete universe. Nowdays, the Turks are muslims and the Mongols are buddhists. :inquisitive:

I can't wait to play as one of those steppe warlords. I guess not too long.:2thumbsup:

Radier
04-12-2006, 08:03
Very nice preview EB-team! Thank you.

:2thumbsup:

Can't wait for 0.8!

Chester
04-12-2006, 08:17
Looks fantastic! The Open Beta feels more like a living video game with all these updates and patches.

Geoffrey S
04-12-2006, 10:00
I beleive the new faction icon is for Xionnu or the Huns. The symbol depicted a God-Deer. The ancient Turks and Mongols both worshipped that God-Deer. In Mongolian language BUGA is a deer. When the Turks migrated to the West they became agricultural, semi-nomad people. This deer symbol has another meaning. The ancient nomads believed that god-deer was a goddess and god-wolf was a god and when they married, the nomads were born. Wolf presents harsh reality, danger, murdurious intent, survival skill, glory and victory (dishonorable if it's required). Deer presents love of nature, strong support of justice, favor of underworld lords. These opposing sides create a perfect mix of whole complete universe. Nowdays, the Turks are muslims and the Mongols are buddhists.
The Xiongu would be roughly where the Yuehzi currently are, wouldn't they, or more to the east? I'm pretty sure they got driven that way by the Chinese, and caused the Yuezhi to migrate southwards. It looks to be another steppe faction, at least, which should keep those Baktrians on their toes.

Great stuff, anyway! It looks like the steppe factions will be a lot more interesting to play now, the government system makes them stand out even more. I'm not convinced those Gallic helmets would be very practical, but they do look real nice.

The Tarabostes are just a little blue square in my browser though, anyone else got that problem?

Birka Viking
04-12-2006, 10:19
Realy nice work EB..Cant wait to play this update..I cant also see The Tarabostes..
cheers

Moros
04-12-2006, 12:21
strange, I can see the tarabostes.

Mujalumbo
04-12-2006, 16:45
Looks Scythian, to me. Doesn't it look Scythian? I think it looks Scythian. Plus, it's in gold. I'm betting it's some Scythian tribe.

And I love those pimpin' helmets. I was thinkin' to myself the other day, "Man, if the Aedui had paved roads, they'd be my favourite faction." Not only are they getting paved roads, but also their generals are gettin' some bitchin' new swag.

Steppe Merc
04-12-2006, 17:51
We will never have a Hsiung-Nu faction... they are even more out of the map than the Yuezhi were.

And I will be releasing a guide to the nomadic government, with that nice diagram, in time for the next release.

Lusitani
04-12-2006, 19:01
[QUOTE=Mujalumbo]Looks Scythian, to me. Doesn't it look Scythian? I think it looks Scythian. Plus, it's in gold. I'm betting it's some Scythian tribe./QUOTE]


Yeah thats sure looks like a Scythian deer...
Awsome work guys....keep it up.

Geoffrey S
04-12-2006, 19:24
We will never have a Hsiung-Nu faction... they are even more out of the map than the Yuezhi were.
Figured that would be the case. Did they move in from the east after trouble with the Han dynasty and drive the Yuezhi southwards, or is my memory failing me?

Still, as long as the new faction's a steppe faction. I've always wanted to play a proper nomad type people, but they've always seemed underrepresented in other mods.

Idomeneas
04-12-2006, 19:29
very nice work keep up guys

the_handsome_viking
04-12-2006, 20:23
That dude with the swan on his helmet is awesome.

the_handsome_viking
04-12-2006, 21:00
I originally thought that it would be the Scythians because the dear looks like some Scythian gold symbol, but the Sarmatians seemed to have replaced the Scythians when the mod got released and I don't see why EB would change its mind on this issue.

As for it being the Xiongnu, I really don't see why they would put them in and take the Yuezhi considering the fact that the Xiongnu were supposed to have destroyed the Yuezhi and sent the rest fleeing into other territories.

The Xiongnu and Yuezhi have too strong a relationship as far as combat goes for it to really be the Xiongnu, it would sort of be like taking Batman out of Gotham city and putting the Joker in his place, it just wouldn't work, you need the both of them to make it interesting.

Also the Xiongnu had conflicts with China and you'd need to have China in there to effectivly tell their story.

I really have no Idea who they could be, I would like to think Scythians.

This is fairly exciting.

KingOfTheIsles
04-12-2006, 21:33
Could it be the Sakae tribes? Or is that just the Iranian name for Scythians? :dizzy2:

Steppe Merc
04-12-2006, 23:26
The Sauromatae, in this next build will deffienetly be a proper nomadic faciton... we just had serious recruitment and building issues, which is why we rearanged it a bit.

nemesisvsbrad
04-13-2006, 02:12
And as an added bonus, a glimpse of something different:

http://www.krusader.be/occultus.jpg
Start guessing ~;)

Hi all!

When I guessed that the new faction icon is for Xiunno, I didn't have a proof to back my assumption. Now I have some. :2thumbsup:

https://img130.imageshack.us/img130/4521/glyphs24xh.gif (https://imageshack.us)

This image depicts deers on top of one another. If ya travel in Central Asia, nomad homeland, you can find plenty of ancient tombs with deer and wolves on them. These have scattered through Mongolia, Siberia everywhere north of the Chinese Great Wall. If you read The Secret Book of Mongolia, the first thing you realize is how much they respected and worshipped deers and wolves before XV century. The Tibetan Buddhism and later Stalin's regime tried to wipe out all nomad culture. Russian forced assimilation still going strong to wipe out every last nomad culture.
Sucks to be a nomad in XXI century.

https://img112.imageshack.us/img112/4835/heregsel5ub.th.jpg (https://img112.imageshack.us/my.php?image=heregsel5ub.jpg)

some ancient bowcase and stuff. Notice the Nazi symbol. Originally this symbol meant peace and prosperity in nomad culture. But Nazi Germans took it and made it an evil symbol in worldview. Damn those copyright violaters!

https://img88.imageshack.us/img88/6643/girl10dq.th.jpg (https://img88.imageshack.us/my.php?image=girl10dq.jpg)

I true northern nomad girl with a deer. These nomads in Siberia lived under harsh Soviet regime and still under Russian aggressive rule. I can understand their dialect but can't speak their language.

https://img130.imageshack.us/img130/5324/archer37gl.jpg (https://imageshack.us)

Probably some sister has been practicing the art of archery. In earlier previous post I mentioned that "their women practiced archery." BTW, the "MERGEN" means an excellent archer or a wise person.

https://img139.imageshack.us/img139/4263/ongonshuluun1eu.th.jpg (https://img139.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ongonshuluun1eu.jpg)

I took this pic from a Russian site. This is a worship site of a local nomads.


https://img139.imageshack.us/img139/8726/modonoboo9mx.th.jpg (https://img139.imageshack.us/my.php?image=modonoboo9mx.jpg)

This is also a worship area of nomads.

https://img157.imageshack.us/img157/7921/serge5bf.th.jpg (https://img157.imageshack.us/my.php?image=serge5bf.jpg)

Another one.


https://img116.imageshack.us/img116/3166/huvtsas35ok.th.jpg (https://img116.imageshack.us/my.php?image=huvtsas35ok.jpg)

A sister of a nomad group

https://img139.imageshack.us/img139/9435/huvtsas28ty.th.jpg (https://img139.imageshack.us/my.php?image=huvtsas28ty.jpg)

Another sister of another group. These people like to decorate everything incuding their door (behind her).

https://img139.imageshack.us/img139/1632/mongols3sn.th.jpg (https://img139.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mongols3sn.jpg)

800 years ago nomad warriors.

https://img116.imageshack.us/img116/8386/aj117lv.th.jpg (https://img116.imageshack.us/my.php?image=aj117lv.jpg)

A nomad girl, maybe a semi-nomad?

Sorry if the post was out of the main topic.:oops:

Chester
04-13-2006, 03:22
Check out the GumShoes here. Your case has me convinced, that first picture you posted is definately the creature displayed in the Icon circle.

I'm guessing the Warrior classes will not be that much different from the Yuezhi. Archers and horses.

jedispongee
04-13-2006, 05:23
Check out the GumShoes here. Your case has me convinced, that first picture you posted is definately the creature displayed in the Icon circle.

I'm guessing the Warrior classes will not be that much different from the Yuezhi. Archers and horses.
http://indoeuro.bizland.com/tree/iran/scythian.html
http://indoeuro.bizland.com/tree/iran/scythian.jpg
From the twcenter board, found by Mangalore.

PSYCHO V
04-13-2006, 05:26
Ahh the dorky hat command contest takes it to a new level....

lol ..doing our best

~:santa:

Cheexsta
04-13-2006, 06:19
Ok, so am I right in understanding that 0.8 will be for the 1.5 patch? Or is it going to initially be for 1.2 and then be ported over?

Kull
04-13-2006, 06:28
Ok, so am I right in understanding that 0.8 will be for the 1.5 patch? Or is it going to initially be for 1.2 and then be ported over?

1.5 Port plus all this other neat stuff. :2thumbsup:

Steppe Merc
04-13-2006, 16:51
Um... did no one look at my post? We will never have a faction of the Hisung-Nu. That faction is not the Hisung-Nu.
You are correct with the deer though, but many people held deer as important. People that would logically be included in this map and time period.

Geoffrey S
04-13-2006, 17:06
A little searching for stags/deer and any steppe people I could think of turned up this pretty quickly:
http://www.hp.uab.edu/image_archive/uj/ujf.html

Look at fifth image from the top. Look familiar? Guess something like Scythia's the faction, then.

Edit: at the bottom of this site too:
http://www.silk-road.com/artl/scythian.shtml

Edit 2: dammit. Just saw Jedispongee's post. Thought I was being clever, too.

jedispongee
04-13-2006, 20:35
A little searching for stags/deer and any steppe people I could think of turned up this pretty quickly:
http://www.hp.uab.edu/image_archive/uj/ujf.html

Look at fifth image from the top. Look familiar? Guess something like Scythia's the faction, then.

Edit: at the bottom of this site too:
http://www.silk-road.com/artl/scythian.shtml

Edit 2: dammit. Just saw Jedispongee's post. Thought I was being clever, too.
Well I did no work of my own and pointed to someone elses find (with credit due of course). So you should still be feeling clever as you found it yourself, with more literature as well.

basics
04-14-2006, 13:39
Hi All,

Can anyone explain what porting to 1.5 will mean?

Yours,
basics.

Krusader
04-14-2006, 14:07
Hi All,

Can anyone explain what porting to 1.5 will mean?

Yours,
basics.

Hey,
Currently EB is made for and requires Rome: Total war version 1.2 to function properly. When we say porting to 1.5 it means we are making EB function for the latest version of RTW which is 1.5

Spendios
04-14-2006, 14:09
Hi All,

Can anyone explain what porting to 1.5 will mean?

Yours,
basics.

It means that the mod will work on RTW with the 1.5 patch (now it's on RTW 1.2 ) . The 1.5 patch allow a lot of improvments for the game and for modders, just check the forum to have list of improvments.

GAH ! Krusader was quicker than me

Reenk Roink
04-14-2006, 14:31
http://www.krusader.be/occultus.jpg
Start guessing ~;)


Bartix?

Anyway...

You guys are really smart...and mean...:tongue2:

I had this brilliant idea :idea: of quoting your post and seeing what the filename was for the faction icon...and it was 'occultus'...

Great Preview Anyway :2thumbsup:

Teleklos Archelaou
04-14-2006, 16:03
I think once we showed one of these and asked folks to guess but we hadn't changed the name yet on the image url. So it's not that we are necessarily smart, just that once we got burned on it we at least learned from our mistake. I think that's what happened anyway. :grin:

edyzmedieval
04-14-2006, 16:13
Nice one Teleklos. You got fooled last time. ~D

EDIT: Let's do it this way. It replaces Yuezhi, this means that it's in the eastern corner, because the rest is too factioned.. Then, nemesis came with the nomads. So, they combine.

This means=>Eastern faction. But, my knowledge is limited, so I'll leave it to you.
And keep in mind, I might not be right.

EDIT2: @KingOfTheIsles

Sakae is the name for Scythians from the Chinese. Greeks called them Scythae or something like that.

Justiciar
04-15-2006, 21:18
Couldn't be a Red Deer could it? Brigantes? I'm still hoping for the Kimbróz tbh. Looks good anyway, esspecially those helmets.. I want one!

edyzmedieval
04-15-2006, 21:23
Well, I've checked most of the stuff I had access to.

I've eliminated the factions the guys said they wouldn't fit. Apart from the Scythians, I don't think it's something else. Or maybe some remote culture only 100 people heard of...

So, Scythians is my last guess. And since the guys like bangled names, my guess is they would call the Sakae or Scythae.

paullus
04-17-2006, 00:03
I was going to make a comment about long gone bands and accessories associated with the word "bangle," but I will leave it at this. The artwork people have presented looks pretty convincing to me. Some sort of Steppe tribe would be nice, and would allow us more opportunities to take advantage of the new settlement system. However, I kinda feel that whatever tribe it is may be a semi-settled tribe, like the Skythians, or perhaps even the largely settled Bosphorans.

antiochus epiphanes
04-19-2006, 03:38
i think its the sabaens.
looks more like a ibex than a deer to me.....
but then again itt could be sakae..

Swabian
04-21-2006, 11:27
finally i get my dirty fingers on this forum too. mhehe.

on topic: this creature is a stylized reindeer and the faction could be sakae/skythians or the turkomans, but i don't understand why the yuezhi are going to get replaced at all. their influence on east asia was decisive, meanwhile the skythian peoples played a relatively unimportant role compared to the sarmatian/alanian tribes. also if the skythians/sakae are introduced, the yuezhi should actually be in the game too, since they had a major influence on the former (caused migration).

edit: is the eb-team supporting the thesis that the denominations 'massagetae' and the 'yuezhi' are eponymous?

Angadil
04-21-2006, 13:52
on topic: this creature is a stylized reindeer and the faction could be sakae/skythians or the turkomans, but i don't understand why the yuezhi are going to get replaced at all. their influence on east asia was decisive, meanwhile the skythian peoples played a relatively unimportant role compared to the sarmatian/alanian tribes.The reason for the replacement of the Yuezhi is actually quite simple: there is very susbtantial doubt that they were actually present in EB's map in 272 BCE. There is some controversy on that, but the general view is that they did not occupy areas of EB's map until about a century after game start. Hence, having them there in 272 BCE would likely be historically incorrect. For some additional elaboration see this thread (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=63785).

also if the skythians/sakae are introduced, the yuezhi should actually be in the game too, since they had a major influence on the former (caused migration).You seem to use "skythians/sakae" as if designating a single people. That is not very useful in the context of the discussion of potential EB factions. Even if "Scythians" is used relatively often to designate a large conglomerate of iranian-speaking nomads sharing a certain number of cultural traits, such an heterogeneus group would not be really eligible for a faction slot in EB. We don't have a "Celts", or even "Gauls" faction, but Casse, Aedui, Arverni... The same thread (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=63785)to which I referred above also has some additional comment on the terminology around the iranian steppe nomads and how EB uses it.

edit: is the eb-team supporting the thesis that the denominations 'massagetae' and the 'yuezhi' are eponymous?You mean both names sharing references to the moon? Not really. Our Chinese expert is quite conclusive about Yuezhi = Moon People not being really adequate, being nothing more than a direct translation of the characters, not being the earliest name under which this people is referred in the Chinese sources and not taking into accoun the differences in pronounciation between old and present Chinese. The opinion about the etymology of Massagetae is not unanimous and Massagetae = Mah Sakata = Moon Sakas is just one several suggestions. I personally find an alternative one, Massagetae = Maz Sakata = Great Sakas, somewhat more appealing.

Oh, and welcome to this forum.

Swabian
04-21-2006, 16:24
Oh, and welcome to this forum.

thank you

the yuezhi didn't (or most likely did not) play any role on the EB map until, as you allready said, 100 years after -272 or so. but later, they conquered baktria and bacame a very rich and quite powerful realm. one can of course argue, that they are halfway out of the timeframe and even might have not appeared on the EB map at all, but on the other hand, they could have appeared earlier with almost the same probability, since they knew of the alexandrinian realm and (it's parts nearby) and they had enough reason and ability to attack baktria during earlier times, didn't they?!

yah of course the skythian peoples cannot be seen as a uniformity or something like that, but i didn't mean all the folks in the whole steppe, i meant certain tribes that would be of relevance in this case,but any further discussion here would be irrelevant, since the scythian peoples are not suitable for a playavle faction (which i never suggested/stipulated). there has been speculation about the new faction being the skyths...pfwfwhmb

i think the massagetae were allready absorbed by the sarmatians in the EB period, so what could be the new faction then if not the turkomans or turkwhatever ...hmm
edit: but actually... i'm not sure, but there could have been a small group left that still carried the massagete identity. they could try to reunite the old confederacy in order to rule the steppes again. this would be an ideal initial condition for an interesting faction. hmmmmm... but i remember that someone said it wouldn't be a barbarian faction. but i mean.. quisque barbarus est aliquo ;)

Ludens
04-21-2006, 20:29
the yuezhi didn't (or most likely did not) play any role on the EB map until, as you allready said, 100 years after -272 or so. but later, they conquered baktria and bacame a very rich and quite powerful realm. one can of course argue, that they are halfway out of the timeframe and even might have not appeared on the EB map at all, but on the other hand, they could have appeared earlier with almost the same probability, since they knew of the alexandrinian realm and (it's parts nearby) and they had enough reason and ability to attack baktria during earlier times, didn't they?!
The subject came up in earlier thread that unfortunatly had to be closed, but the gist of the argument was that even if they were present on the EB map at the start of the game, their focus would be east, not west. They only turned west when their position as local steppe power had been lost to the Xionghu. Thus, to accuratly represent their situation, one also needed to include Xionghu, Han China, etc. This is not an option, so I am quite happy with the decision to drop them alltogether. Still, I wouldn't mind seeing them as an emerging faction or a scripted event.

Jolt
04-21-2006, 23:57
To be honest, the first faction that came to my mind from that was India. Hehe. I'm probably wrong though. I just hope it's really Bartix. :P

orwell
04-22-2006, 02:32
I'd actually like to see India and the Mauryans included, there was a strong proposal for it for RTR but it never went over. Add them and clear out a little of central europe and if not representing the entire sub-continent, at least give it a decent wealth value as a condensced form of its riches. But that'll never happen. I don't really see a deer, the supposed antlers look more like intertwined snakes to me. Besides no deer I've ever seen or heard of had a tail like that.

MaximianusBR
04-23-2006, 03:46
the reinforcement problem will be resolved?

Justiciar
04-23-2006, 04:56
Sadly there won't be a Mauryan faction in EB.. that's what we've been told at least. You never know with these cunning modditses.

edyzmedieval
04-23-2006, 13:30
You can't have everything, you know.

Justiciar
04-23-2006, 14:45
Can't hurt to try, can it?

Slider6977
04-23-2006, 15:48
Cappadocia

Steppe Merc
04-23-2006, 17:27
yah of course the skythian peoples cannot be seen as a uniformity or something like that, but i didn't mean all the folks in the whole steppe, i meant certain tribes that would be of relevance in this case,but any further discussion here would be irrelevant, since the scythian peoples are not suitable for a playavle faction (which i never suggested/stipulated). there has been speculation about the new faction being the skyths...pfwfwhmbuo
Why, just out of curosity? I assume you mean because the Scythians (the Western Iranians that the Greeks knew) were pushed West and into the Crimea by the Sauromatae and became settled, at least those that were not absorbed?

Ludens
04-23-2006, 19:07
the reinforcement problem will be resolved?
The EB team hopes that porting to 1.5 will solve this problem. It seems to lie in the way R:TW 1.2 awards traits after battle and this may have been changed in R:TW 1.5. If not, the traiters face some hard decisions.

edyzmedieval
04-23-2006, 19:13
I think the reinforcement problem is rare, so I guess this should be given normal priority. Other things have a bigger priority for EB. :balloon2: