Some help for modding the dacian faction.

[an_do_89]

See this site www.dacia.org is written in english too ;there are videos about some sanctuary places in Sarmisegetusa ,and there can be seen walls ;I disagree that Getae has no stone walls or great walls ;There are some maps also about Europe.

[QwertyMIDX]

We also "disagree that Getae has no stone walls or great walls." Eventually they'll have some sort of more serious fortification than those silly wooden RTW walls, but we've had a lot of trouble getting people to model 3D buildings for us.

[abou]

Doesn't Trajan's Column show legionnaires assaulting Dacian stone walls?

[QwertyMIDX]

Sure does. Of course Trajan's colum is significantly later than EB and IIRC (I'm very unsure of this) major stone fortifications don't seem to be common in dacia until contact with the romans takes off. Either way though EB's Dacians won't be hiding behind piles of logs forever, once we can get someone to start doing these things for us it will get done (we haven't even gotten proper Oppida walls in game yet, but we obviously plan on having those too). Maybe Shifty can do this eventually.

[abou]

Is it possible to model wooden walls on top of earth ramparts and then have a ditch in front of it to make everything save the gate impossible to attack with a ram due to the incline? I always thought that would be an interesting improvement in protection as the difference between the palisade and the wooden wall is negligible - in fact, the only reason to upgrade is so you can get to the stone wall.

[QwertyMIDX]

We were actually just talking about what we could do about that. I don't think we have any firm conclusions yet though, other than we have to do something to make there be a real difference and hopefull make city assults harder.

[an_do_89]

Sarmisegetusa was the heart of the culture ,trade and mining ,it was sorroundet by a net of citadels as a spider net ,a very well fortyfied stronghold with mountais all over . The city fall to the romans in 106 AD only through treachery ;the plan of the water supply was sold to the romans , otherwise Sarmisegetusa Regia would had never fall. The romans came and took the gold and captured only 14% of Dacia the rest was owned still by the the free Dacians (86%).They kept only what was vital to them to keep extracting the gold from mines.

[an_do_89]

Dacian wall, looking very much like a Chinese wall, belonging to the years of the Dacian - Roman clashes or even to an eariler period. There is no "waste" of walls, and the whole building has two rows of fashioned calcarous rock, brought there from the Magura Calanului quarry (40 km) where to this day hundreds of thousands of such calcarous stones lie about neglected. What human force and what technology (the archaeologists could not find any stone axe in the neighbourhood of the quarries and of the Dacian walls) could carry out such project? The answer is still unknown.

[Teleklos Archelaou]

It was magic.

That or maybe they just prized their tools so much that they were very careful with them and didn't lose them often around the quarry. But magic seems much more attractive. Orpheus was up in this neighborhood a little, right? His music was said to have been able to move stones into place to build things. :grin:

[edyzmedieval]

~D

Be serious Teleklos. I am warning you...
The Dacians look weird. You are neglecting the Getae....:embarassed:

[an_do_89]

The Thracian genealogical tree counts over 200 tribes, of which the most important ones are those of the Dacians, the Getae, the Ramantes people, of the Besins (the metallurgists), of the Latins, etc.

Dio Cassius would say, "let us not forget that Trajan was a true-born Thracian.

The fights between Trajan and Decebalus were fratricidal wars, and the Thracians were Dacians."

According to Mircea Eliade, the huge number of the branches coming out of the Thracian genealogical tree would amount to approximately 200. ("The Dictionary of

Religions," page. 265) Professor Dumitru Balasa drew up a chart of these and counted no less than 150 Thracian branches (see "The Country of the Sun" or "The History of Daco-Romania," Kagaion Publishing House, 1997).

Herodotus (425 BC) would write: "The Thracian people is the most numerous one of the world; the Thracians have several names, according to their specific regions, but their habits are more or less the same." (Fontes, I, 65) After the Greek victory over the Persians, at Maraton, the king Xerxes (486-465 BC) makes himself a big army among whose soldiers Herodotus mentions the

presence of the Bithynian Thracians, from the north-western Asia Minor, who are described as follows:

"The Thracians joined the expedition wearing fox caps, wearing long coats under their vivid colored capes. Their calf-high footwear was made of deerskin. They were equipped with spears, light shields and small daggers."

Ovid, in his "The Sorrowful" speaks about the Geto-Dacians in the following words:
* You can see them on horseback, riding in midroad.
* Among them you won't find anyone who does not carry a quiver, bow and arrows whose spikes are yellow with the viper's poison.
* Their voices are hoarse, their faces wild and they look like the most genuine embodiment of Mars.
* They have never had their hair or beard cut.
* Their right hand is always ready to thrust the knife that they have fastened to their hip. In 547 BC Cyrus' Persians defeated the Thracian Lydian kingdom in Asia Minor, extending their sovereignty as far to the northwest as the southern shore of the Sea of Marmara.

In the "Iliad", Homer, speaking of the Thracians, mentioned that "their golden shields made their armies shine," and that "their treasures were so precious that Priam (king of the Thracian Troy) could take back the head of his dead son from the hands of the Greeks only after offering the latter the famous Golden Thracian Cup."

[an_do_89]

I think you(edyzmedieval) neglect your country history (Romania);in fact Dacia.
The resistance and partial destruction of Decebal' Dacia ( 14 %) has not changed in any way the basic structure of native people. As a mater of fact Dacia was the last territory conquered by the roman in Europe and the first left by them. The memorial monuments - Trojan’s Column (Rome) and Tropaeum Trojan (Adamclisi, Dobrogea (Dobrudja)) - attest through their celebrated scenes to the Dacians' bravery in defending their plains, fields, rich and well-sheltering mountains.

Besides all, Dacia never has suffered a process of integration into the Roman Empire, because 86 % of its territory was never occupied by them. Not to forget that , at the time of Roman Empire arrival Dacia already have reached a high level of material and spiritual culture and in 165 years of roman occupation of 14% of its territory practical was impossible to undergo a process of Romanization. As the Geto-Dacians has been the basic ethnic element in the making of the European people (see Noah'flood- W.Ryan & W. Pitman-" the Diaspora" pp 188-201), they were also the strongest element of the Romans' ethno genesis, which left lasting marks, traceable to the day, in the Italian people's Latin language, in its name, conscience and culture.

The crisis occurring in the Roman Empire as well as the pressure of the free Dacian people and other “barbarians” forced Emperor Aurelian to decide in 271 A.D. the withdrawal of the Roman troops, administration and a part of the urban population from The small portion ( 14%) of Dacia’s territory occupied by them, and moving south of the Danube. One more time the dacian population has been again together they will continue to exist generally speaking divided in three regions known as Transylvania, Moldavia and Walachia.

Later some of the greatest Dacian Empire territory got re-unified under the name of what we call today Romania. :wall:

[edyzmedieval]

How come I am neglecting my country's history? Huh?

[an_do_89]

In the privious reply you told us that Dacians are weird and that Getae are beeing neglect; (You should know as a romanian citizen that the Dacians were the majority and not the Getae in the Thracian population.)-Wrong Edit:-You should know as a romanian citizen that the Carpatho-Danubian space was ocupied by the Geto-Dacians.

[Geoffrey S]

Sure you're not getting later periods confused with the mod starting date, namely bc 272?

[QwertyMIDX]

Dacians and Getae are the same thing...one is anglized latin and one is transliterated greek.

[Krusader]

Dacians and Getae are the same thing...one is anglized latin and one is transliterated greek.

As Qwerty says, aren't Dacians & Getae/Getai the same people? Just different Roman & Greek names.

[edyzmedieval]

Dacians = Getai

Same thing. :book:

[an_do_89]

For Geoffrey S
The often quoted ancient Greek historian Herodotus shows that: "...after Indians, the Thracian people constituted the largest ethnicity among all the rest of World's races". Let us focus, a little bit, on this issue. In accordance with their geographical location, the first ones who slowly start "detaching" themselves are Geta-Dacians, during the first millennium B.C., throughout various Northern shores of Ister River (today's Danube), and then Illyrians (from the area to be later called Albania), Scythians (living, back then, within the Dobrudja region of modern Romania) etc.

It was fear that forced the Romans, several times defeated by the army of the Thracian Spartacus, to send Marcus Licinius Crassus and Pompei (brought from Spain especially for this) against him. Defeated by a huge army, Spartacus dies heroically, in 71BC, near Silar, facing his death with laughter, in the old Dacian tradition.

The concept of Zamolxian immortality was representing the very Ethics' concept among all young warriors of the "the Dacian (Thracian) Wolves", who were enjoying the imminent Death's perspective and were even laughing at it, precisely in order to show their indifference towards such an event and their looking forward to faster reaching God's underground meadows. These youngsters were fighting and dying joyfully under the "Wolf's Head" Dacian banner, which we would also encounter at the Macedonians, as well as at the so-called "Roman " legions later, that had actually been formed from Thracians living within boundaries of the Roman-occupied territories.

So I'm not refering to another period than the one in the game;

[an_do_89]

For QwertyMIDX
The well-known Greek historian, Herodotus, used to say the following about Thracians: "...after the Indians, the Thracian people constituted the largest ethnicity among all the rest of the world's races. Should they benefit from one ruling only and be spiritually united, they might acceed to become, in my opinion, absolutely undefeatable and to surpass, by far, the greatness of all the other Earth's proud races. The Thracians bear many names, each one according to their living regions, yet all of them show, through almost everything, highly similar customs". The subsequent apparition of Romans was to indirectly lead towards an unification of all Pelasgians, Thracians, Illyrians, Dacians, Geta, Tybali and Odry's tribes

The Thracian genealogical tree counts over 200 tribes, of which the most important ones are those of the Dacians, the Getae, the Ramantes people, of the Besins (the metallurgists), of the Latins, etc.
In my opinion they are the same having the same ancestors-the Pelasgians: Thracians or Geta-Dacians, as you choose to name them. I'm a little confused but I think the proper name would be Geta-Dacians or Geto-Dacians as for the faction Geto-Dacia or Getae-Dacia.

[QwertyMIDX]

Umm, I'm pretty sure you're badly confused on this one.

[edyzmedieval]

Dacians are the north branch of the Thracians. Simple as 1,2,3.

As for the name, Getai or Dacia is very good. If you analise it gramatically, Geto-Dacia is a grammatical error, because the terms are the same. :laugh4:

[an_do_89]

"The poet Ovid, in his sad elegies from Tomis, writes (Trist. Lib. V. 3.v.7-8) that he dwells in a barbarian land, on the shores of the Black Sea, under the constellation of Ursa, where live the Getae and the Scythians. And with St.Paulinus, the Dacians are the ones who dwell under the constellation of Ursa Major (Coleti, Illyricum sacrum. Tom. VIII. P.81).

According to Hesiod’s theogony, chained Prometheus suffered on the famous column on Atlas mountain.

Apollodorus locates Atlas mountain in the country of the Hyperboreans.

And Pindar tells us that the Hyperboreans were the people who dwelt near the sources (cataracts) of Istru (Olymp. III. v. 14. 17).

Finally, the Latin poet Martialis tells us even clearer (Epigr. Lib. IX. 46) that Prometheus’ rocks and the fabulous mountain (of Atlas) were in Dacia. In one of his finest epigrams dedicated to a Roman soldier who was going to Dacia, he says so: “Marceline, soldier, you go now to take on your shoulders the northern sky of the Hyperboreans and the stars of the Getic pole, which barely move. Behold also the rocks of Prometheus. Behold that famous mountain of legends. Soon you will see all these with your own eyes. When you will contemplate these rocks in which echo the great pains of the ancient man, you will say: Yes, he was even tougher than these tough rocks, and to these words you could still add that he, who could endure such torments, could in truth also form the human genus."

PREHISTORIC DACIA by Nicolae Densusianu



This book has been first published in Romania in 1913, but its contents remain as revolutionary, visionary, and controversial as they were almost 100 years ago.Reading this book is a “must” for all those interested in the birth and evolution of European and Eastern Mediterranean civilizations.

www.pelasgians.bigpondhosting.com

[Teleklos Archelaou]

Pindar, Ovidius, Hesiod, Martial, and Apollodoros won't have much bearing on this mod actually. Nor will the location of the Hyperboreans or Prometheus' imprisonment.

The Getai though will have more new units in our next build. I will say that is going to make them more fun to play as.

[an_do_89]

I seriously believe this is the best MOD for RTW made with a lot of hardwork, great ideas ,tones of hours spent .....I hope and I trully believe you will handle it out in a way that will surprise us.:shakehands: As for the Getae faction-it's as great as the other factions in the game-very good ideas indeed and very good documentation.

[Teleklos Archelaou]

I'll push hard for one of the new Getai units to be in the next set of screenshots we preview for you guys. They all are great, but one of them is really gonna wow everyone I know. :grin:

[Dooz]

Aw damnit, I used up my Getai campaign on 0.74 before all this great new stuff... phooey.

[khelvan]

All of our research points to "Dacians" and "Getae" being, simply, the same people with a different name in Latin and Greek.

[edyzmedieval]

I'll push hard for one of the new Getai units to be in the next set of screenshots we preview for you guys. They all are great, but one of them is really gonna wow everyone I know. :grin:

:grin:

I deserve priority please....~D