A Good Phalanx Formation and Strategy

[The Spartan (Returns)]

Anybody know a good phalanx formation and strategy? Greeks have horrible cavalry and dies to an army with good infantry and lots of cavalry. Macedonians have a decent selection but Greek hoplites overpowers pikemen. (Please include how many ranks. This is on the battle map not world map.) 1.5 patch.

[Alexanderofmacedon]

Well when it comes to phalanx, the best strategy really is to stop the enemy in place with your phalanx and wheel your cavalry around and flank the enemy. Now, if you're worried that your cavalry is inferior than the other I think I have an idea for you. If you are attacking or them, you could use a couple units of archers to concentrate on their cavalry units. Even if you don't totally destroy them (which you could do very well), you will leave them down in numbers, allowing your cavalry to overpower them.

Now, if that doesn't work, the only other idea I'd have is to buy some good Thracian mercenaries. This is kind of hard to give you information since I have the RTR mod, which has excellent heavy cavalry for the Macedonians.

Hope it helped!:2thumbsup:

[Watchman]

Nitpick: it's tactic, not strategy. Tactics win battles, strategy wins wars. Different scale.

That said, the main GCS problem in vanilla is the lack of decent "flankers". The Heavy Peltasts and Greek Cavalry just don't quite cut it when the push comes to shove, especially against more formidable flankers like heavy cavalry or decent shock troops like Roman or barbarian heavy infantry. If possible use mercs. Thracians and Bastarnae are pretty good if you can get them, although you'll probably need to detail at least one phalanx per each flank to ward off cavalry. 'Course, if you can use the merc heavies to support your own somewhat lackluster cav in dealing with the enemy flankers and then turn both against the flanks of the enemy's main line pinned by your phalanxes once those have been disposed of...

[The Spartan (Returns)]

Well shooting cavalry with archers really worked. My Greek Cavalry squashed the Roman cavalry. However if i use a phalanx to ward off a cavalry unit, wouldn't that phalanx be isolated? Here's another one: You are outnumbered, not outclassed, fighting an all infantry army but you have a good number of cavalry. Your infantry is caught up fighting the enemy infantry but the rest of the infantry manouvered behind your infantry and is targeting your cavalry (see you have deployed your cavalry behind your infantry in the hopes that their infantry will target your infantry so you can flank them with Greek cavalry. The Greek Cities.) What do you do? (If i should have peltasts or archers, please tell also.)

[Craterus]

Against an all infantry army, here's what you do:

https://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y158/Craterus/untitled.jpg

This also works if the enemy has some cav.

The centre of your half-hexagon should be hoplites or pikemen. The flanks can be more hoplites/pikemen, or alternatively quick shock infantry. The AI will piledrive at your centre, at which point you envelop them using the flanks.

This formation will fail if the enemy (especially cav) get behind the hexagon. Your cavalry is there to stop them doing so. Greek cavalry isn't the best (on vanilla) so you'll have to swarm the enemy cav to stop them getting past...

EDIT: The text on the picture doesn't show up too well.

Cavalry are red, infantry are blue, missiles are green.

And the "G" stands for General.

[The Spartan (Returns)]

ill try it out. ill be back to tell the tale.

[The Spartan (Returns)]

this formation is great! espicially with Macedonians. doesnt work well with greeks though cause of their greek cavalry. but what do i do if the enemy gets behind my line and my cavalry have been routed and i didnt recruit missiles so i dont have any troops to attack the enemy behind the line? should i "take off" phalanx formation off one of my free hoplites or/and pikemen and attack without the phalanx?

[Garvanko]

With factions who rely on the phalanx, your best weapons are your archers.

[Craterus]

Your general is there to deal with it in case something gets behind the lines.

It's possible to work with the Greeks, you just have 3 Greek Cav (at least) on each flank.

If there is nothing at all to protect when they get behind the lines, then yes, you'll have to use a free unit of hoplites.

[Rome:Total Slayer]

i have found that it is much easier to defend using phalanxes then attacking. You can set up your phalanxes to create a line across the rout line then let them come.

[The Spartan (Returns)]

thanks everybody for the good suggestions. :2thumbsup:

[Kagemusha]

The Best fun i have had with Phalanx units have been defending a city with wooden Walls.Set up a "Death alley".Place three Phalanx/Pikemen units so that two of them are on both sides facing eachother of an Gate or other place where the Enemy is trying to ram in and the third is at the bottom of "Death alley".Sit back and enjoy the slaughter.:knight:

[Alexanderofmacedon]

Well shooting cavalry with archers really worked. My Greek Cavalry squashed the Roman cavalry. However if i use a phalanx to ward off a cavalry unit, wouldn't that phalanx be isolated? Here's another one: You are outnumbered, not outclassed, fighting an all infantry army but you have a good number of cavalry. Your infantry is caught up fighting the enemy infantry but the rest of the infantry manouvered behind your infantry and is targeting your cavalry (see you have deployed your cavalry behind your infantry in the hopes that their infantry will target your infantry so you can flank them with Greek cavalry. The Greek Cities.) What do you do? (If i should have peltasts or archers, please tell also.)

I'm glad I helped!:2thumbsup:

[rotorgun]

Well shooting cavalry with archers really worked. My Greek Cavalry squashed the Roman cavalry. However if i use a phalanx to ward off a cavalry unit, wouldn't that phalanx be isolated? Here's another one: You are outnumbered, not outclassed, fighting an all infantry army but you have a good number of cavalry. Your infantry is caught up fighting the enemy infantry but the rest of the infantry manouvered behind your infantry and is targeting your cavalry (see you have deployed your cavalry behind your infantry in the hopes that their infantry will target your infantry so you can flank them with Greek cavalry. The Greek Cities.) What do you do? (If i should have peltasts or archers, please tell also.)

In this situation, one might also do as Alexander the Great did at Guagamela and deploy a second Phalanx behind your first. These don't have to be first line elites, they can be Milita Phalanx or Mercenary Greek Phalanx types. Alexander used Greek Mercenaries in this role. The first line is a normal line of your Macedonian Phalanxes, behind these place any peltests that you have. on each flank place whatever cavalry you have. A mix of heavy and light if only defending is standard, but you could mass your strike arm on one flank as the Companions did at Issus or Guagamela. It is usefull to acompany them with some skirmishers such as archers or light barbarian infantry if available; a combined arms approach keeps your opponent off balance. In your center third line goes your General, flanked by archers or light infantry. Behind him, centered on the battle line goes your second line of Greek Hoplite infantry, grouped together in a line of four, or two groups of two. These are deployed in standard formation to make them more mobile. They can be sent towards a threatened flank or the entire line can face about (pause will have to be used, ungrouping the units, giving each an about face command at the double, unpause until formation is reformed, pause and then regroup, unpause and play. You can then deploy them in phalanx formation as needed. If you imagine Craterus' formation as convex, instead of concave, with a second phalanx line behind, one can visualize how useful it could be, literally creating a kind of oblong square of sorts.

http://www.allempires.com/articles/guagamela

When Parmenio's flank gave way to the overwhelming combined arms attack of the Persians, this is what the Rear phalanx actually did, according to Arrian, who wrote a decent account of the battle. It was this action which probably saved the Macedonian Army from possible defeat, even though Alexander had the oppisite flank on the run.

Sorry to go on so long. Check out Woad Warrior's post on formations in the Entrance Hall threads. He has many additional formations for your consideration.

Bon Chance Mon Ami !

[rotorgun]

As a post script to the Phalanx posts, here is a site with some good graphics for the formation I described. I hope this goes through OK.

www.allempires.com/guagamela/guagamela.htm

[Alexanderofmacedon]

It doesn't work.:no:

[rotorgun]

It doesn't work.:no:

Hi Alex,

What doesn't work, the link or the formation described?

Rotor

[The Spartan (Returns)]

i think he means link.

[Alexanderofmacedon]

i think he means link.

Yep.

[rotorgun]

I'll try to paste these images properly as per Kurikhan's instructions. I hope they come out OK

https://img154.imageshack.us/img154/9392/gaugamela02hu.th.gif (https://img154.imageshack.us/my.php?image=gaugamela02hu.gif)

https://img154.imageshack.us/img154/1381/gaugamela18db.th.gif (https://img154.imageshack.us/my.php?image=gaugamela18db.gif)

https://img234.imageshack.us/img234/6058/gaugamela25gu.th.gif (https://img234.imageshack.us/my.php?image=gaugamela25gu.gif)

https://img234.imageshack.us/img234/5146/gaugamela39qs.th.gif (https://img234.imageshack.us/my.php?image=gaugamela39qs.gif)

https://img234.imageshack.us/img234/6176/gaugamela47tn.th.gif (https://img234.imageshack.us/my.php?image=gaugamela47tn.gif)

https://img452.imageshack.us/img452/592/gaugamela59ij.th.gif (https://img452.imageshack.us/my.php?image=gaugamela59ij.gif)

I appreciate everyones' patience. These are in the sequence of the battle except for the first graphic which is sort of an overview. They go a long way toward showing how adaptable the Macedonian standard battle drill was when confronting unique situations. I hope that Alexanderofmacedon finds them as intruiging as I do.

[Alexanderofmacedon]

Those are just plain AWSOME! What I found with the help of these graphics is 1)Even while having such a great defencive unit such as the phalanx, it's still possible to press attack. 2)Alexander seems to use Blitzkrieg tactics even when down by many thousands of troops.

Thanks for the wonderful graphics, rotorgun!:2thumbsup:

[rotorgun]

Those are just plain AWSOME! What I found with the help of these graphics is 1)Even while having such a great defencive unit such as the phalanx, it's still possible to press attack. 2)Alexander seems to use Blitzkrieg tactics even when down by many thousands of troops.

Thanks for the wonderful graphics, rotorgun!:2thumbsup:

Your quite welcome freind. The allempires website is an excellent historical source. I found it on a Google search when looking for the Battle of Guagamela. It would be a challenge to duplicate this manuever with the Total War engine - many pauses and groupings required. I thought you might like them. There are quite a few for the battles of Granicus, Issus, and Hydaspes as well.

How was the soccer game, and who do you play for? What position?

[Rome:Total Slayer]

The Best fun i have had with Phalanx units have been defending a city with wooden Walls.Set up a "Death alley".Place three Phalanx/Pikemen units so that two of them are on both sides facing eachother of an Gate or other place where the Enemy is trying to ram in and the third is at the bottom of "Death alley".Sit back and enjoy the slaughter.:knight:


nice I love doing that too~:cheers: ~:cheers: ~:cheers:

[roman pleb]

When defending a wooden palisade city i always cram the hoplites into the streets, overlapping them so there is a mob of men and spears for the enemy to go through before they get to the center. This has won me many victories where I was outnumbered around 7-1

[Alexanderofmacedon]

When defending a wooden palisade city i always cram the hoplites into the streets, overlapping them so there is a mob of men and spears for the enemy to go through before they get to the center. This has won me many victories where I was outnumbered around 7-1

In my current campaign I am Macedon and I have halted all conqest to the West and North of Macedon, but I've headed to Asia Minor to take settlements there. I've taken all settlemens except the Pontus capital with a good amount of men, which are excelent troop types. I'm laying siege with a couple of armies and when they sally I retreat and re-besiege, to kill all their units. Anyway, In order to stop Thrace and Illyria (Who have declared war on me), I have full stacks on bridges they have to cross to get to my settlements. Needless to say, it's usually a slaughter.:laugh4: