HOMM5 demo out [Archive]

screwtype

04-17-2006, 05:54

I spent 3 1/2 hours dl'ing the demo last night, and another half hour installing it (*phew* it's huge!).

I've only played it for about half an hour but my initial two impressions:

(a) Serious graphic overkill. Is full 3D really necessary for a game of this type? I've got a pretty decent rig, and it runs sluggishly even on the lowest available settings. Also, I find the graphical style to be rather overdone.

(b) The combat. I haven't really figured out much about how it works yet, but it's not very intuitive and IMO pretty clumsy. Why couldn't they just have had a system like Age of Wonders, instead of this weird chessboard thing that appears and disappears? Also, it's hard to figure out which unit or units are active and which are not.

All in all then, first impressions are not that positive. But I'm off to have another go at it now. I haven't played any of the previous HOMM games BTW.

Zenicetus

04-17-2006, 06:30

I tried the demo this afternoon. I haven't played the previous HOMM games and my reaction was similar to Screwtype's (above) as a newcomer to the series. This is a seriously opaque, non-intuitive demo if you haven't played the earlier versions. There is no tutorial or any real docs beyond keyboard shortcuts. I couldn't get far enough into it, to figure out if I'd like the full game or not.

If they want to hook anyone beyond the existing HOMM fan base, they really need a different demo with a tutorial for newbies. I've played a ton of strategy games, but this one doesn't seem that easy to grok right away.

screwtype

04-17-2006, 07:52

Okay, I've had another go at it, and got the hang of it a bit better.

It's the combat system that was throwing me most last time. But I've figured it out a bit better now. Basically, you don't have a choice about which unit to move in combat, it seems to be selected on some sort of initiative system. Bit of a problem when you want to soften up the enemy with your ranged units first. You can if you like though, skip a move for a unit by selecting "Defend", in which case it sort of digs in, apparently. But it appears this is not the sort of game where you can hang back with your melee units and wait for your archers to do the job for you.

Apart from that, it looks to be a rather fun game. You can speed up the interface by tweaking the options, although there's still a bit of sluggishness when you first select a unit. In fact the game reminds me a lot of Age of Wonders, a very similar system in many ways.

One other limitation is it seems you can't have more than one hero per army. Not necessarily a bad thing, but in the first scenario you quickly acquire four heroes when you really only have enough troops for one decent army. This means you have to strip the other heroes of their troops, and when I did that, dammit, an enemy army marched up and killed one of my unprotected heroes, who just happened to be one of the heroes who has to survive the scenario. So I lost ~:( Not sure what the solution to this might be.

Other than that, I think it might be a worthwhile game, although I'm not sure you will get your money's worth with only 30 scenarios. But probably you do, there were only about 30 scenarios in Age of Wonders II and that took me a long time to finish.

I still think the game is sporting a case of graphical overkill though...

screwtype

04-17-2006, 11:17

Egads, the demo is tough! I've been beaten twice already (on normal), and although I've managed to fight off two demon assaults in my third attempt, it seems pretty clear I'm about to get beaten again.

This is obviously going to be quite a challenge...

BTW One feature that I think sucks is that the combat screen apparently can't be scrolled around or viewed from different angles (although this might just be a limitation of the demo). In other words it's much like Age of Wonders in that regard. But when they've gone to all the trouble of making the game fully 3D, you'd think they could do the same on the battle screen. With the fixed viewpoint, it's quite hard to see your units or what is happening sometimes.

doc_bean

04-17-2006, 12:16

right mouse button iirc, hold and drag

x-dANGEr

04-17-2006, 12:23

I've played Heroes 1, 3 and 4. The most I liked was 1, of course. I will give it a try soon and come back to you :)

screwtype

04-17-2006, 14:47

Hey, this game is pretty danged good!

I think I just found my next purchase :laugh4:

Sjakihata

04-17-2006, 15:15

Ok, I have now managed to play some hours with the demo.

First of all, there isnt much new stuff. I had no trouble what so ever navigating the interface, building recruiting etc. (Blame that on my prior experience with the game).

The only thing that can be credited as completely new, imo, is the 3d gfx. Which isnt a good idea - I dont hate it, but I would be finde with the 2d map of hmm3.

I understand why the campaign can seem difficult for new players. The trick is logistics, only go for one army. When your hero is out questing/hunting for treasures be sure to keep a line of other heros (just lvl 1) in a chain. So when your castle is threathned you can quickly supply the defending hero with troops.

the gameplay seems okay, but the demo is crap, i had bugs, objectives that didnt come etc etc, but I liked the game. I never played other hmm in campaign mode, always free play or multi play - and Im looking forward to trying the campaign. And I do hope in free play mode that the pc is smarter than in the demo.

Got any specific questions please ask them, since it's kind of hard thinking it all up.

screwtype

04-17-2006, 16:15

First of all, there isnt much new stuff. I had no trouble what so ever navigating the interface, building recruiting etc. (Blame that on my prior experience with the game).

No, it's pretty straightforward to pick up, although there are a few oddities. For example where some units seem to be upgradeable with heroes and others by training. Gets a bit confusing at times.

The only thing that can be credited as completely new, imo, is the 3d gfx. Which isnt a good idea - I dont hate it, but I would be finde with the 2d map of hmm3.

Yeah, it's not really necessary for this type of game. But I've adjusted to it quickly enough. Could do without the attention-seeking "active hero" highlight though.

I understand why the campaign can seem difficult for new players. The trick is logistics, only go for one army. When your hero is out questing/hunting for treasures be sure to keep a line of other heros (just lvl 1) in a chain. So when your castle is threathned you can quickly supply the defending hero with troops.

Hmm, sounds like a cheat to me. I don't think I'll employ that strategy, I prefer to beat a game fair and square.

the gameplay seems okay, but the demo is crap, i had bugs, objectives that didnt come etc etc, but I liked the game. I never played other hmm in campaign mode, always free play or multi play - and Im looking forward to trying the campaign. And I do hope in free play mode that the pc is smarter than in the demo.

I haven't encountered any bugs yet. I think the demo is good! I've been beaten four times in a row on "normal" and the game has played differently every time. It's obviously going to take me quite a while just to beat this one scenario, so I figure the game will be pretty good value.

Don't know what you mean by the pc/AI not being smart enough though. It seems plenty smart enough to me. I'm finding it quite unpredictable (except of course that you know it's going to keep throwing armies at Dunmoor). And the enemies keep changing too. They are randomly generated from game to game, so you never know exactly what you're getting until you go to the combat screeen.

Sjakihata

04-17-2006, 16:41

Don't know what you mean by the pc/AI not being smart enough though. It seems plenty smart enough to me. I'm finding it quite unpredictable (except of course that you know it's going to keep throwing armies at Dunmoor). And the enemies keep changing too. They are randomly generated from game to game, so you never know exactly what you're getting until you go to the combat screeen.

Well, I completed the first scenario on my second attempt on normal. I failed the first one because I had no idea that the thing just north of the keep was a prison, so I was beaten by time. Second time it was better. I wandered one hero straight into enemy territory so I could see when he charged his heros at me (so I could get my questing knight back in time). The enemy heros ran past my lvl 1 hero, moving to my keep. My hero in turn could walk right in the inferno lands, taking mills etc, and then I see a keep completely undefended which I captured and held. That sped up the process of winning a lot I guess.

What I mean by AI being stupid is, that I had my hero Godric defending my keep with the entire army and the queen Isabel hide just out side the keep. The enemy just charged the keep paying no attention to the queen. And the AI at times sent 3 heros to attack my keep, one by one, they were all three on the map instead of merging the armies and attacking with one strong.

But since I, at that time, had 1000+ (a horde) of griffins and other good stuff I wouldnt have made a difference.

The trick with the heros is no cheat at all, that is the only way you can play the game on big maps. You just cant support 2 armies and still beat your opponent, so when you need your army back home, you have maybe 4-5 heros in chain from your keep to the questing hero. The hero runs to the first in the chain A, gives A all the units, A goes to B, B to C etc untill they arrive at home. That's smart - not a cheat.

ps. I find the 2nd scenario quite tough (and lame) since you start with no castle. Thats why I hate the campaign game, you get all these objevtives and no troops. When I finally came through the passage a hero of my own race meets me and throws an army in my face, damn did I felt betrayed ;)

Sjakihata

04-17-2006, 16:54

Anyone up for a MP battle?

just tried a couple of MP games, they are quite fun. And to all, yes a campaign mode will be available in the full game, not just the tactical mode.

frogbeastegg

04-17-2006, 19:37

Thanks. Primarily I was wanting to know if the game is good or not, and how well it holds to the series' tradition.

Going to install the demo now, and give it a quick go. Don't ask what happened to my high hopes of playing it yesterday. :blankg:

screwtype

04-17-2006, 21:03

Well, I completed the first scenario on my second attempt on normal. I failed the first one because I had no idea that the thing just north of the keep was a prison, so I was beaten by time. Second time it was better. I wandered one hero straight into enemy territory so I could see when he charged his heros at me (so I could get my questing knight back in time). The enemy heros ran past my lvl 1 hero, moving to my keep. My hero in turn could walk right in the inferno lands, taking mills etc, and then I see a keep completely undefended which I captured and held. That sped up the process of winning a lot I guess.

A keep, what's that, you mean a city like Dunmoor? Yeah, I guess that would speed up your progress.

I'm on my fifth attempt to win this scenario now :/ I lost two because the AI sent me a big army as soon as I captured Dunmoor, no hope of keeping them out. I lost another because I didn't realize the importance of upgrading to a castle, which increases the troop build rate. And I lost the fourth 'cos I was careless with Godrick.

It's a good idea of yours to put weak heroes out as scouts though. You seem to get a lot of them so I guess it doesn't cost you anything to lose them.

What I mean by AI being stupid is, that I had my hero Godric defending my keep with the entire army and the queen Isabel hide just out side the keep. The enemy just charged the keep paying no attention to the queen. And the AI at times sent 3 heros to attack my keep, one by one, they were all three on the map instead of merging the armies and attacking with one strong.

True, it's stupid that they ignore your essential hero and go straight for the castle, but then again, it's kinda stupid that you can't put more than one hero in a castle anyhow. So I guess the stupidity evens out there :)

But yeah, I think you're right the AI isn't brilliant, this last game I'm playing the AI has done practically nothing at all while I've built up Dunmoor to almost max strength. Of course, it could be building a humungous army somewhere...but if it is, no sign of it yet. In fact it's taken it all this time just to send one army to capture some mills that I captured ages ago.

But since I, at that time, had 1000+ (a horde) of griffins and other good stuff I wouldnt have made a difference.

You like Griffins, huh? The upgrades are good, the battle dive is pretty cool. But how did you get so many - do you just concentrate on the one troop type or something? I thought I was doing pretty well with 150 Squires :)

The trick with the heros is no cheat at all, that is the only way you can play the game on big maps. You just cant support 2 armies and still beat your opponent, so when you need your army back home, you have maybe 4-5 heros in chain from your keep to the questing hero. The hero runs to the first in the chain A, gives A all the units, A goes to B, B to C etc untill they arrive at home. That's smart - not a cheat.

Sorry, I just think that's a cheat :) Because it sounds to me like what you're saying is you are moving an army from one side of the map to the other in one turn by relaying it through heroes, and that clearly isn't how the game is meant to be played. After all, the AI is never going to use that trick on you.

I can see why you might want to do that in MP, because other human players might do it, but I think it's cheating to do it against the AI. It's not something I'd want to do anyhow.

Sjakihata

04-17-2006, 23:43

It's not a cheat, because you do not use any thrid party software. I'll settle for an exploit tough.

Zenicetus

04-18-2006, 05:12

screwtype

04-18-2006, 06:11

Well, I'm getting seriously ticked off at Ubisoft. I spent some more time on the demo, finally figured out a few things (haven't played HOMM before), but I decided this wasn't for me. Mainly I had trouble with the chessboard-style tactical combat... it's just not something I enjoy, but no big deal. That's what demos are for.

The advantage of the chessboard system is that you can see exactly how far the enemy units can move. But I agree it doesn't look all that cool. Pity you can't turn it off if you don't want to use it.

There is an option for dynamic (real time I guess) combat, but I haven't tried that yet.

You can BTW rotate the battlefield by right clicking, holding and dragging, which helps a bit.

Then I tried uninstalling the demo. No dice... doesn't uninstall from either the start menu/programs/ubisoft uninstaller, or the control panel add/remove programs. I get a dialog window that says the game has been uninstalled, but it's all still sitting there on my HD. Great... so now I have to manually uninstall, including looking for DLL's, hacking the registry etc. Thanks Ubisoft, nice work.

I guess most people in this thread are enjoying the demo, but has anyone tried actually uninstalling it yet? Maybe it's just my own setup that's causing a problem?

That's bad luck, I hope this is only a problem with your system and not everyone's!

econ21

04-18-2006, 10:05

Sorry, I just think that's a cheat :) Because it sounds to me like what you're saying is you are moving an army from one side of the map to the other in one turn by relaying it through heroes, and that clearly isn't how the game is meant to be played. After all, the AI is never going to use that trick on you.

Don't worry - the "hero chain" is how the game is meant to be played. It was been core gameplay in Homm3 - IIRC, they took it out in Homm4 (by giving units movement points). That it is back in Homm5 presumably is part of the "going back to Homm3" philosophy of the game designers. It is not intuitive, but if it helps, think of the hero chain as representing internal lines of communication and supply or something. In the context of the Homm series, it does not really count as an exploit (it's recommended in the Homm3 official strategy guide, for example).

BTW, I read somewhere there is an undocumented W key for "wait", so you can delay your melee units move in order for your ranged units to soften up the enemy. Again, this was standard in earlier Homms.

I guess I'll try to download the demo, but I have read worrying things on the official forum about the strategic AI being braindead - not defending its towns or trying to take yours. That is what killed Homm4 (the strategic AI in Homm3 was excellent).

screwtype

04-18-2006, 11:19

Well, whether it's an "official" exploit or not, it's still an exploit in my book ~:)

But I confess I'm finding it darned hard to beat this scenario. Mainly because you have to preserve two particular heroes to win, and because you can't put more than one hero into a city (a silly mechanic), one of them has to be outside which means he is more vulnerable.

I think basically what I have to do is either go back to get more reinforcements regularly for my outside hero, or else just make sure he has a humungous army to start with so he can beat anything he comes up against.

As for the AI, the jury is still out on that. I initially thought as Sajikata said that the AI doesn't go for the unprotected hero if it's near Dunmoor, but actually, it does. The AI got my hero half a dozen times in the last game, until I learned my lesson :(

But on the other hand, it doesn't seem very aggressive, although it has recently started sending armies out to recapture stuff from me.

Edit: Actually, I just had an idea on how to preserve my two heroes without a hero chain. What I can do is hire more heroes and use them as scouts in front of my main hero. That way I'll be able to see what's up ahead with risking losing the essential guy ~:)

frogbeastegg

04-18-2006, 19:59

Finally played it just now. Everything was going well, until it crashed when I tried to leave the town I had captured. 15 minutes down the drain, grrrr.

It reminded me a bit of the original Age of Wonders demo. One hero, a little army, and wandering about a pretty green map finding things and slaying monsters until, after a few game days, the need to find a town to take got pressing and froggy got conquering. I was planning on doing much as I did back then, and wandering the map with my newly expanded and upgraded army, building up my city and finding others. Ah well, I'll give it another go sometime. Not likely to be until Thursday at the soonest; no time for games.

Being new to the series I do wish they had included some basic instructions beyond the hotkeys. Given time I could figure it out, but I don't have that time.

Sjakihata

04-18-2006, 20:02

screwtype

04-19-2006, 07:48

Yes, I think I have to agree that the AI is suspect. After exploring virtually the whole map and beating off numerous AI attacks on Dunmoor, I finally made it to the enemy city at the bottom corner of the map. I found a couple of wizards wandering around with virtually no army in the same location and bopped them (okay, not necessarily evidence of bad AI, but it did seem a bit odd). I also bopped a couple of AI armies in the vicinity of the city.

But when it came to the city itself, it was very weakly defended and a pushover to take. Maybe one of those AI armies I bopped had just come from the city, but surely it would make more sense for it to stay put and defend its critical infrastructure from a position of strength?

Okay, so I took the town, and then accidentally lost my big army when I passed through the garrison gate (I ddn't realize that was going to cause it to exit the scenario!).

But then, the very next turn, what happens but the arch demon Agrael turns up with a humungous army at the doorstep of my newly conquered, weakly defended town - then simply rushes past on its way, presumably, to mount another futile attack on Dunmoor at the opposite edge of the map!

Yes, when the enemy ignores a crucial, weakly defended target like that, I think it safe to say the AI has a problem!

All the same, I found this scenario very challenging, perhaps especially because I don't use the "chained heroes" exploit. So all is not lost. I'm still inclined to pick up a copy of the full game. But it obviously detracts somewhat from the appeal of the package to find an AI which is lacking in smarts.

screwtype

04-19-2006, 08:05

I just tried a custom game. Dang it sucked. The AI was just sitting in its castle doing nothing but recruiting a humongous army. When I arrived I thought I could handle it, but it had like 1k of most units, 120 angels... No attacks, nothing just sitting there.

That doesn't sound good either. In fact it sounds quite worrying. How the heck are you going to conquer a town with that many units??? :dizzy2:

I neglected to mention in my previous post that although it took me a considerable time to finally find and conquer the enemy city at the opposite end of the map, I was suprised to find in my travels that virtually ALL the infrastructure I encountered on the way hadn't yet been conquered by the enemy. Was this done deliberately in the demo to give you the fun of conquering stuff for the first time yourself? I don't know, but again, it doesn't appear to say a lot for the AI.

In fairness though, it did conquer stuff after I had first conquered it, so it appears it was programmed simply not to attack neutrally held infrastructure. I'm just wondering though, was it only programmed this way for the sake of the demo, or is this going to be a feature of the game? Because if the AI doesn't attack neutrals, it's obviously going to considerably weaken its powers of expansion.

Then again, that might have been deliberately done to better balance the gameplay. But coming from an Age of Wonders background, where the AI goes for everything just like the human player, it does seem a little strange.

I hope the limitations is something put on by the demo, like you cant recruit more than 1 hero (in custom) not tavern etc.

Yeah, maybe it was specific to that scenario. But when you say you can only recruit one hero, I assume you mean you can't have more than two heroes total? Because you'd need at least one to hold the city and one to wander the map, wouldn't you?

screwtype

04-19-2006, 08:18

Finally played it just now. Everything was going well, until it crashed when I tried to leave the town I had captured. 15 minutes down the drain, grrrr.

Did your PC slow down horrendously around the demon town too? Mine practically slowed to a crawl.

Having just spent $800 upgrading my PC to an Athlon 64 3000+, a gigabyte of RAM, and a newish video card, I was kind of annoyed to see a game behaving the way games used to behave on my humble old 1 Gig Celeron. There's a sense that one never quite catches up, because the better the hardware gets, the sooner game developers are pushing the limits of the current hardware again so you end up having to run just to stay on the same spot. ~:(

BTW, how did you find the map scrolling? I found it so sluggish and unresponsive I was starting to rant at the screen toward the end, which is never a good sign!

The problem is you move the cursor to edge of the screen and nothing happens for a second, or two, then it starts to move. But then sometimes it decides it doesn't want to move at all, so you wait that couple of seconds and NOTHING HAPPENS. Then having run out of mouse mat, you have to reposition it and start all over again. I HATE that.

Now that I think of it, I might try zooming the map out a bit from the standard height. Maybe that will help a bit.

Ironside

04-19-2006, 08:35

I just tried a custom game. Dang it sucked. The AI was just sitting in its castle doing nothing but recruiting a humongous army. When I arrived I thought I could handle it, but it had like 1k of most units, 120 angels... No attacks, nothing just sitting there. I hope the limitations is something put on by the demo, like you cant recruit more than 1 hero (in custom) not tavern etc.

Yeah I tried that one too. Considering how important heroes are for recruiting, being limited to one hero sucks. Got lucky, as when I ran back to my city to recruit some troops from those extra troop buildings, the army ran out and started conquer stuff. The wierd part was when I stole the city, by running part the army. The comp didn't react to try to retake it so I won after a week.

BTW screwtype FYI the comp only got one hero too in this scenario and Sjakihata does seem to be a slow player, the army was bigger than mine but not by much and had 12 angels or something.

But then, the very next turn, what happens but the arch demon Agrael turns up with a humungous army at the doorstep of my newly conquered, weakly defended town - then simply rushes past on its way, presumably, to mount another futile attack on Dunmoor at the opposite edge of the map!

Yes, when the enemy ignores a crucial, weakly defended target like that, I think it safe to say the AI has a problem!

That particular incident has to do with the ending of the scenario. You can really bug out the ending though, I defeated Agrael and greeted Nicolai (sp?) and that cimematic still showed up.

I can think that the comp doesn't stay in the city because he doesn't consider victory possible even when defending the city. Thus fleeing with his army gives a small chance of taking another city. That it makes a horrendous option instead of poor option is a problem though.

frogbeastegg

04-19-2006, 08:39

Did your PC slow down horrendously around the demon town too? Mine practically slowed to a crawl.
Didn't even get that far. ~:( I wandered about for a few turns around the starting area of the first campaign scenario, killed a few stray creatures and collected some loot, then went for the first town I found, the one very close to the starting area with an ore mine in front of it. I captured the town, and the game crashed when I tried to leave after looking about and making a few build orders.

BTW, how did you find the map scrolling? I found it so sluggish and unresponsive I was starting to rant at the screen toward the end, which is never a good sign!
Mixed bag. On the default speed it was fine; I didn't have to adjust anything in the options. However, the game itself was slightly jerky and the camera didn't behave as I expected/wanted it to. Oh, I've found all the camera controls, but no way does it move as I expect, so often I find myself staring off in the wrong direction. The more I zoomed out the worse the jerkiness, the more I zoom in the harder it is to get the camera to behave.

I'm not excessively worried about the game's performance. Yet. It's a demo of a work in progress, and my drivers are possibly a bit old for a new and demanding game.

The comments about AI do worry me. Can only hope it improves in the release version; correctly or incorrectly I gather the game itself is still unfinished and that this demo is more of a taster for veterans than a demo to sell to the public.

Sjakihata

04-19-2006, 08:51

I am now convinced that the AI is being suppressed by the demo. In all other hmm series the AI has been (somewhat) challenging and Im sure it will in #5 as well.

Now, I get the slow down in the inferno area as well, seems like bad coding. The only reason Im going to buy this game, is Im a die-hard fan of it and I enjoy playing it.

Have you guys tried out MP yet, that is some serious fun. I find the elves and tower races to be the better ones, but I occasionally get a defeat. Im called Skafsgaard and usually in channel #2

screwtype

04-19-2006, 08:58

That particular incident has to do with the ending of the scenario. You can really bug out the ending though, I defeated Agrael and greeted Nicolai (sp?) and that cimematic still showed up.

Wait a minute, you're saying that graphics of Agrael and his minions running past the city is a cinematic? I didn't realise that, I thought it was in-game.

I'm still scratching my head trying to figure out what to do next in this scenario though. I've captured the demon town, got Godrick to exit the map to find Nicolai, but I'm still stuck in the same scenario and being told I have to "defend Dunmoor" from demon attacks. What demons? If that scene of Agrael running past was a cinematic, there are no demon armies left to kill!

Edit: You were right, from that point the cinematics basically take over. You've just got to hit "end turn" a few times to finish the cinematics. Odd way to structure it, but it works fine.

I can think that the comp doesn't stay in the city because he doesn't consider victory possible even when defending the city. Thus fleeing with his army gives a small chance of taking another city. That it makes a horrendous option instead of poor option is a problem though.

I don't know about that, I didn't have that big an army by that time myself. About all I had left was 100 squires and 30 inquisitors.

BTW, I really hate those succubi! Don't you hate the way they attack every unit whenever you hit them? They are wicked. If not for them my losses would be a lot less.

I like to stomp them with griffin battle dives though :laugh4:

screwtype

04-19-2006, 09:13

Didn't even get that far. ~:( I wandered about for a few turns around the starting area of the first campaign scenario, killed a few stray creatures and collected some loot, then went for the first town I found, the one very close to the starting area with an ore mine in front of it. I captured the town, and the game crashed when I tried to leave after looking about and making a few build orders.

Okay. I didn't get a single crash in about three evenings of playing so far. But whenever I enter a town and see all those fancy swirling 3D graphics, I can't help but expect a crash any moment. I guess years of gaming having taught me that Pavlovian response :laugh4:

Oh, I've found all the camera controls, but no way does it move as I expect, so often I find myself staring off in the wrong direction. The more I zoomed out the worse the jerkiness, the more I zoom in the harder it is to get the camera to behave.

I'm notoriously reluctant to explore a UI. It usually takes me six months to find some essential UI feature that would have made all the difference to gameplay, LOL.

I've just got no patience when it comes to learning new software. Just hop right in and hope for the best ~;p

I'm not excessively worried about the game's performance. Yet. It's a demo of a work in progress, and my drivers are possibly a bit old for a new and demanding game.

It's not that bad. But as I said to you on the GalCiv thread, I just have a thing about games that don't scroll efficiently. It could definitely be a lot smoother.

The comments about AI do worry me. Can only hope it improves in the release version; correctly or incorrectly I gather the game itself is still unfinished and that this demo is more of a taster for veterans than a demo to sell to the public.

Oh heck, I thought the game had been released. Oh well, I guess I can save my money a bit longer then ~:)

Yeah, I hope the AI is improved too. But my experience with RTW makes me suspect that what you see in the demo is pretty much what you end up with in the finished game.

screwtype

04-19-2006, 09:18

I am now convinced that the AI is being suppressed by the demo. In all other hmm series the AI has been (somewhat) challenging and Im sure it will in #5 as well.

Hope you're right about that.

The only reason Im going to buy this game, is Im a die-hard fan of it and I enjoy playing it.

Sounds like a pretty good reason to me ~:)

Have you guys tried out MP yet, that is some serious fun. I find the elves and tower races to be the better ones, but I occasionally get a defeat. Im called Skafsgaard and usually in channel #2

I don't do MP. I live on the other side of the planet and whenever I've tried MP the lag has just made it not worth bothering with. And it's hard to find local MP opponents.

econ21

04-19-2006, 14:22

In all other hmm series the AI has been (somewhat) challenging and Im sure it will in #5 as well.

Not in Homm4. The battle AI was fine. But the strategic AI was braindead. Camping in towns, not picking up resources/mines, not combining armies and leaders and - worse of all - committing hari-kiri by attacking too strong wandering monsters. On some maps the only sign I would see of the AI was the graves of its fallen leaders. The Homm5 AI sounds inauspiciously familiar.

screwtype

04-19-2006, 14:58

Actually, in the second scenario the AI is helping itself to the map goodies. So I guess the reason it didn't in the first is that it was programmed not to.

Ja'chyra

04-19-2006, 15:06

Can someone tell me type of game this is before I download the 600Mb :dizzy2:

Is it the Dawn of War, gather resources type or the MTW type?

Mithrandir

04-19-2006, 15:10

Gah!

I've not read this whole thread, but it seems I've got the time to read this entire forum,do background research on every topic I come across and write a few essays on my findings as well...

downloading the demo...665MB!! The first game was like 50MB.I've played 1,2,3 and 4. Despite all the bad comments on part 4 I liked it. Part 1 was nice, but ofcourse not comparable to part 2 or 3. I can't wait for the download to be complete... 6% so far.

-Mithrandir.

Mithrandir

04-19-2006, 15:39

ok, just finished reading this thread.

27% downloaded in the meanwhile...

as for the chain of heroes, in HOMAM4 there was no need, not becuase you didnt need heroes to move your units, but because of the brilliant caravan invention. You could build a caravan building, with which you could move units from other towns (with caravans) and lose recruitment point much faster than any heroe could walk.

On MP possibility :cool. send me a PM when you see me online to contac me for a game (starting tomorrow when everything is downloaded and installed).

-Mithrandir.

ps: 30% (95k/s)

Sjakihata

04-19-2006, 17:07

Not in Homm4. The battle AI was fine. But the strategic AI was braindead. Camping in towns, not picking up resources/mines, not combining armies and leaders and - worse of all - committing hari-kiri by attacking too strong wandering monsters. On some maps the only sign I would see of the AI was the graves of its fallen leaders. The Homm5 AI sounds inauspiciously familiar.

Ah, didnt play that much in singleplayer mode

Mithrandir

04-19-2006, 17:47

Installed it, and when I try to play it, I get the title screen with the demonhead, and then an error...

any help please?

econ21

04-19-2006, 20:13

Can someone tell me type of game this is before I download the 600Mb :dizzy2:

Is it the Dawn of War, gather resources type or the MTW type?

None of the above, really. One key feature is that it is turn-based - both the strategic map (like RTW) and also the battles. The strategic map is rather like RTWs but resource gathering is a big deal - you flag mines etc. Exploration is also a large part. A big attraction is finding the "goodies" - lots of cute or characterful little power-ups, resources, artifacts etc and fighting wandering monsters to get experience to level up your heroes. Underlying it also is a TW style mechanic of "build up your city, tech up your army, mobilise and conquer the AI". But the preparatory wandering round, picking up stuff etc is fun enough that some people did not notice or mind that the Homm4 strategic AI was braindead (the Homm3 was very sharp - better than RTW).

One you get to the battles, you zoom to another map. But it is very stylised, like a chessboard. You have only up to 7 stacks, but these can vary from one imp to 30 archangels. There is a fair amount of tactics involved in choosing your targets, sequencing, spells etc. The AI usually can do a good job here so typically the battles are decided before they are fought - the stronger army will usually prevail. You can't reliably trounce the AI with an inferior force as you can in TW, but then again the battles are nowhere near as realistic or exhilarating as MTW.

Ironside

04-19-2006, 20:39

Wait a minute, you're saying that graphics of Agrael and his minions running past the city is a cinematic? I didn't realise that, I thought it was in-game.

I'm still scratching my head trying to figure out what to do next in this scenario though. I've captured the demon town, got Godrick to exit the map to find Nicolai, but I'm still stuck in the same scenario and being told I have to "defend Dunmoor" from demon attacks. What demons? If that scene of Agrael running past was a cinematic, there are no demon armies left to kill!

Edit: You were right, from that point the cinematics basically take over. You've just got to hit "end turn" a few times to finish the cinematics. Odd way to structure it, but it works fine.

BTW, I really hate those succubi! Don't you hate the way they attack every unit whenever you hit them? They are wicked. If not for them my losses would be a lot less.

I like to stomp them with griffin battle dives though :laugh4:

The supposed structure of the ending is:
Godrick runs for help.
Agrael comes running.
Nicolai shows up. Agrael and Nicolai battles, the true cinematic starts.
It's easy to kill Agrael before Nicolai either shows up or before he faces Agrael and thus messing up the ending. You'll finish the mission but the storyline will be somewhat broken (and killing Agrael before Nicolai shows up seems to trigger the same cinematic every turn for a few turns before the final one comes).

Yeah I usually melee or battle dive on those succubus. The chain attack does has it disadvantage though, it works on every non-demon unit, even those in your own army.

Edit: Didn't take long to download the demo BTW. I had over 1 megabyte/sec the whole time ~D . The gamershell link worked wonders. :2thumbsup:

Blodrast

04-19-2006, 22:18

I guess that the initiative-based system has been figured out so far - it's not new, it's been there before. Not entirely intuitive, if you don't know about it beforehand, I agree.

About the tactical battles - even if they may not be documented, key shortcuts should work (D = done, W = wait, S = stand/defend, etc.). Although it's conceivable that they changed some of these.

About not being able to recruit more heroes thingie: I recall reading that there are some limitations intentionally imposed on the number of heroes you can buy in the beginning, precisely to prevent people from just getting a bunch of heroes with 1 (symbolic) unit as their army for scouts, right from the start. You can buy more, but not an unlimited number in a day, even if you can afford it.
There may also be some hardcoded limitations because this is only the demo.

What I'd like to hear about is how difficult it is to navigate through the abilities/skills trees - they seemed even more convoluted than in homm4... But I assume that the demo doesn't let you get far enough with the development of a hero to figure that out...

Ironside

04-20-2006, 07:56

About not being able to recruit more heroes thingie: I recall reading that there are some limitations intentionally imposed on the number of heroes you can buy in the beginning, precisely to prevent people from just getting a bunch of heroes with 1 (symbolic) unit as their army for scouts, right from the start. You can buy more, but not an unlimited number in a day, even if you can afford it.
There may also be some hardcoded limitations because this is only the demo.

The first campaign mission gives you the recuiting speed of 2 heroes/day up to 8 (or possible 6 on the field). The other (non-campaign) mission has no taverns at all = no available heroes to recruit.

Meneldil

04-20-2006, 08:52

Installed the demo yesterday. At first sight, the game is great, it has a HoMM3 feeling, while using the good ideas of HoMM4, especially the interesting skills system.
The towns are beautifull, so are the musics. The heroes are cool, and it looks like each faction can get unique skills. Too bad we can only play with the most boring factions (where's my dungeon ?), even if Inferno is much more amusing now.

Unhappily, the AI seems quite weird. Although it's doing alright in the campaign (mostly because it's scripted), it seems to have frozen in the custom scenario. As said earlier, the hero just stayed in his town, hiring lots of units and waiting for the (awesome) final clash. I also hope the 2 heroes limit is either a demo stuff, or can be increased once you get new cities (I think a heroes limit, like 2 with your first city, and an additionnal one for each new city captured, would have a positive effect on the gameplay and would help the AI, who sometimes hired lots of heroes that wandered on the map just to bug the player).

And well, yeah, make sure to save your game regularly, as it often CTD's when you exit a town or end your turn.

Mithrandir

04-20-2006, 09:23

Installed it, and when I try to play it, I get the title screen with the demonhead, and then an error...

any help please?

Still nothing..reinstalling didn't work...bah.:no: :wall: :wall: :help:

screwtype

04-20-2006, 10:37

What are the specs on your system?

Rosacrux redux

04-20-2006, 10:53

This demo is a huge beast! 665 MB??? How am I going to dld it? I haven't got a bloody broadband... maybe it's time to get one, huh?

And... chaining is back? Merde... I find this huge exploit extremely boring, intimidating, and frankly a cheat... was about the only thing I liked in HOOM4, the fact that they removed chaining. And it's back in 5? That sucks.

Other than that, it sounds like loads of fun, although there is this consideration about the braindead AI. HOMM4 anyone? I've seen dumb AIs in many games, but this was the first katatonic AI I've encountered in a strategy game! I loved #3 and #2, taking out the uber-fishy chaining. Actually I never used chaining in single player, but had to in MP (otherwise I'd lose every single game...). You know, HOMM3 is about the single game I've played online? Those times...

Mithrandir

04-20-2006, 12:38

What are the specs on your system?

Acer
AMD sempron 3000+
2Ghz,480 MB

screwtype

04-20-2006, 14:46

What about your GFX card?

I assume you've updated your drivers?

And have you tried the HoMM V forums for technical assistance? I don't actually have the url of the official site, presumably it's on Ubisort somewhere. Other than that, I really can't be much help. Here's hoping you can get it sorted out.

Blodrast

04-20-2006, 18:36

I haven't dl'ed the demo, so I'm mostly shooting in the dark, but here's an idea: from the docs that the demo comes with (if any :P), or from the forums, are there any command line parameters that you can run the game with ? Sometimes these let you run with reduced functionality (low res from the start, no sound, etc), and that might at least let you start the game.

Alternatively, you can try to temporarily disable/deactivate any firewalls/anti-virus/anti-spyware software that you may have running - sometimes they don't let software write to the registry (although they should ask you) or do "dirty" things.
Normally, you should get warnings/errors, but I've personally had many cases where various games (or applications) wouldn't install or run because of my antivirus/firewall/whatever.

good luck.

frogbeastegg

04-20-2006, 19:52

But whenever I enter a town and see all those fancy swirling 3D graphics, I can't help but expect a crash any moment.
Heck, yes! That town was incredibly beautiful. I sat there watching the flyby for a minute or so, admiring the castle, the river, the little town, the sky ...

It's not that bad. But as I said to you on the GalCiv thread, I just have a thing about games that don't scroll efficiently. It could definitely be a lot smoother.
The mildly amusing thing is that in both games I haven't had any scrolling problems at all. I too despise slow scrolling.

Actually, though, I meant the performance issues I was having - the crash, the jerkiness.

Mith, a poor idea from a frog, but it may help. Have you got a firewall? Mine interrupted the demo as it loaded about that point, demanding to know what privilages the demo should have. That interruption has crashed me many a game before now. Best to set the privilages before launching the game.

screwtype

04-21-2006, 05:31

HOMM5 just went gold ~:) UK release date 18th May.

Mithrandir, in case you hadn't found it yet, here is the tech help page for HOMM5:

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee/forums/a/frm/f/4611096804

Mithrandir

04-21-2006, 12:40

Thanks,

Where can I check what videocard I have?
And in the systemlog I got the following error :

00003625 Loaded UI Game Root
00005438 <color=green>AUTODETECTED: Unknown card, DX7 class hardware
00005438 <color=green>AUTODETECTED: Speed: 3 Texture: 0 FSAA: -1
00005438 Executing c:\program files\ubisoft\heroes of might and magic v\demo\Profiles\default_profile\input.cfg
00006641 Executing ..\Profiles\autoexec.cfg

And froggy, don't think I've got a firewall..

*ducks from all invading hack-attacks*

econ21

04-21-2006, 15:50

Mithrandir, there's a nice website that let's you check if your computer can run particular games (it's got the HommV beta as one):

http://www.systemrequirementslab.com/referrer/srtest

It will tell you about your video card. But you also should be able to find out by going to the control panel and looking at the display options, under settings.

Dutch_guy

04-21-2006, 19:11

Thanks,

Where can I check what videocard I have?

Well it should be listed in your DXDiag.

Start ---> run --> DXdiag ---> then select the tab with the name screen ( or something of that kind, you'll see it dont worry )

:balloon2:

Mithrandir

04-21-2006, 19:37

Thanks simon,

seems I've got a crappy 32MB video card, my old pc even had a better one (also 32MB) :(

oh well. can someone post screenshots please?

Blodrast

04-21-2006, 22:14

Mithrandir, there are some screenshots at http://www.mightandmagic.com/HeroesV/uk/screenshots.php

Hope this helps a bit :)

econ21

04-21-2006, 22:36

seems I've got a crappy 32MB video card, my old pc even had a better one (also 32MB)

32MB must struggle with RTW, doesn't it? 128MB seems to be the minimum for new games and 256MB the recommended.

Video cards are actually quite easy to install [1], so if you can afford it and the rest of your PC is decent, it might be worth considering an upgrade. The weblink I gave should give you an idea if the rest of your computer is suitable for Homm5. I'm not sure it is a game worth a hardware upgrade. But M2TW may be. ~;)

The apothecary should be able to recommend a videocard suitable for your needs.

[1]Even I did it and I struggle to change a light bulb. Just get the side off your computer. Unscrew the old video card and unplug the wires/ribbon/whatsit. Then screw in the new video card in the same place and plug in the wires.

screwtype

04-22-2006, 09:54

32MB must struggle with RTW, doesn't it? 128MB seems to be the minimum for new games and 256MB the recommended.

I'd say so. How the heck has he been getting away with a video card like this? Did he just recently buy this PC secondhand or something?

Mithrandir, before forking out for a new video card, you might want to make sure you have a video slot. I'm not sure, but I think some mobo's with integrated graphics can't be upgraded to a new vid card.

If you do have a video slot (presumably AGP if you're running a Sempron), I'd suggest getting a Radeon 9800 Pro if you're on a budget as it's a relatively cheap card by now and it still performs quite well (although not as well as state of the art hardware, obviously).

I might also suggest taking a look at your mobo to try and find out what model it is, and thereby what features it has. You might be able to do this through software. Someone with more familiarity with Windows than me might be able to help you there ~:)

Video cards are actually quite easy to install...Even I did it and I struggle to change a light bulb. Just get the side off your computer. Unscrew the old video card and unplug the wires/ribbon/whatsit. Then screw in the new video card in the same place and plug in the wires.

The important thing is to ground yourself first, by touching a kitchen tap, and then handling the card only by the sides, in order to ensure you don't damage it with static electricity.

frogbeastegg

04-22-2006, 17:28

Finally got to play the demo a bit more. I didn't finish the mission, but I did play enough to decide that I shall keep an eye out for the release version. If it's in good condition I will likely buy a copy. If it's buggy or still has a dead AI then I shall curse and hope for a patch, and see after that.

On the uninstall matter, the demo uninstalled correctly for me. I decided I'd rather play a finished version than continue to wander blind in a touchy demo.

econ21

04-22-2006, 23:05

I finished the Haven campaign mission and share froggy's positive assessment.

I don't think it gave me much insight into the AI, as it all seemed pretty much scripted - the AI seemed pre-programed to assault your castle at given points. For this, I will forgive it making hopeless attacks towards the end, when it could not expect to win. (One of the strengths of the Homm3 strategic AI was how it took great pains to evade battle if it was outgunned - it would stay more than a turn away from a powerful army; hence the power of the "hero chain" that could get such an army into contact against the AIs anticipation).

I hope the maps - at least the scenarios - that come with the game are not so scripted. (Apparently the Devil campaign map with the demo is even more restrictive - you are pursued by two powerul armies and must evade battle.) I much prefer open-ended maps where you can play the way you want, rather than "puzzle-style" maps where you have to do exactly what the game designers intended you to.

But the exploring, levelling up and combat was great fun, as always. Although when you zoom into battle mode, however, it did remind me awfully of that video mocking Japanese RPGs.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=63269

Meneldil

04-28-2006, 08:32

Boring scripted maps aren't news, I remember some HOMM3 scenarios in which you had to find a given hero/item while the AI launched hopeless attacks on your main castle, or to find something before the AI army reach a castle, and so on...

It seems pretty normal for a demo to let you play only such maps. The game isn't finished, and it looks like it was quite rushed in the later stages (they've redone many units, probably because they looked like exact copy of Warhammer table top game figures, and feared legal issue with Game Workshop). They don't want to reveal everything (skills, units, castles), which is quite understandable.

econ21

04-28-2006, 17:18

...they've redone many units, probably because they looked like exact copy of Warhammer table top game figures, and feared legal issue with Game Workshop)...

Even so, the similarities are striking. The shields of the knight heroes seem clones of the Chaos warrior shields in Warhammer, while the "inquisitors" also seem rip-offs of those in 40K and Dawn of War. The entire Chaos town line-up seems stolen from the Warhammer Dark Elf army. It's all pretty shameless and if I were a GW boss, I'd be livid. As someone who rather likes GW fluff, though, I'm quite happy.:laugh4:

frogbeastegg

05-19-2006, 10:12

The game is out today. Anyone got it? Opinions? Bit early I know, but I am liking the idea of playing a scenario a week in an evening after work. I want a chance of pace to GalCiv2 now.

Another question: In the event that I decide to buy HOMM5, is it worth getting the special edition which also includes HOMM1-4? HOMM1 won't be too useful, nor will 2, but 3 and 4 might be. Not sure how they stand up today, and the last thing I want to do is splash out the extra for this version only to find that those two won't run easily/properly on my PC, or that they pale in comparison to the new one. Heh, no idea where I would get the time to play them.

David

05-19-2006, 11:02

HoMMV = HoMM III in 3d. If you havent played HoMM III yet its definetely worth getting. I'm nearly at the end of the first campaign, last scenario being the demo level. Its nearly the same as HoMM III except cosmetic changes ofcourse. Havent tried MP or skirmish yet though.

econ21

05-19-2006, 11:18

My copy has not arrived, although I am alarmed by some stuff I've been reading on various forums (e.g. the designer saying the AI is not perfect because it was only worked on late :wall: .)

In terms of the older games, a lot of folk rate Homm2 as the best, so I am not sure I would dismiss it.

Homm3 is an outstanding game. Very competitive AI - Total War could learn a lot from it. Beautiful presentation (even by today's standards, IMO - 3d graphics are so overrated). Vast amount of gaming possible (with so many user made scenarios on the web). I'd rate it with Civ2 or Civ4 - not really my cup of tea, but still a top of the range strategy game.

Homm4 is broken. Braindead strategic AI. Wonderful hero system and cute graphics. But the AI won't give you a challenge.

I'm guessing Homm5 will be somewhere between the heights of Homm3 and the lows of Homm4. Exactly where, of course, will make all the difference.

frogbeastegg

05-20-2006, 12:19

One copy of the amazon.uk exclusive complete edition inbound. Half of me is wondering if I might have done better to load up Age of Wonders: Shadow Magic and play that for a month or so until HOMM5 is properly evaluated for things like bugs and AI, but oh well.

Which leads to more froggy questions. Surprise surprise :gring:

I know there are an assortment of add-on packs for HOMM3 and 4. I don't know if they are included in this edition or not; it does say "The Complete Edition contains all five Heroes of Might and Magic episodes, including the latest instalment - Heroes of Might and Magic V - and the entire versions of Heroes of Might and Magic 1 to 4." Although that could be deceptive wording, and mean the entire versions of the basic games only. So, what are the names of the various add-ons? In case mention is made of them in the documentation. Also, are they vital to the experience, nice, or a bit of a waste?

Nextly, patches and so on for HOMM 3 and 4. I presume there are some? Not sure if these editions come pre-patched or not, so just in case what version did the games get patched up to with/without add-ons, and where can I get those patches now the company responsible for the old games is dead and gone?

I'm left wondering where on earth to start! Obviously going to play some HOMM5 to start off, and if it is good and bug-free I shall likely keep on going. But sometimes it is hard to go back to older games in a series after playing the newer ones. Yet HOMM 3 and 4 both sound like massive games. At present I find I can't interest myself in HOMM1 and 2, the former demanding DOS and not sounding like it offers anything the others do not, and the latter just being so old I find myself doubting it won't have aged badly and that it will offer more than different scenarios compared to the newer ones.

econ21

05-20-2006, 13:32

Homm4 needs a lot of patches (including some that have not been made! :laugh4:) - and they are incremental, IIRC, so you need them all. But I suspect that the "complete" thing you have ordered will include them. I can't recall about Homm3 and think it even more likely the one you get will be fully patched. Looking at my own files, I have Homm3 patches up to 1.4 and Homm4 patches up to 3.0. A google search should find them - these games have a fairly big online community.

I don't think the bundle comes with the add-ons. But you don't need the Homm4 ones - I don't have them and can't even recall what they were. They were just milking a weak game and did not fix the lamentable strategic AI. The main Homm3 add-ons were Armageddon's Blade and Shadow of Death. They are good - the former came first and IIRC, added a new town and other "stuff"; the latter has some nice and long campaigns. They are not essential but do allow you to play some very nice usermade maps. There is a game "Homm3 complete" that does have the vanilla game and the two expansions, at a very good price. But only worry about that if you get hooked on it.

On where to start - Homm5 first, as you say. Beyond that, maybe try the Order campaign in Homm4 - I love the writing in it. With Homm3, the campaigns start mind-numblingly easy, so you might want to download a savegame that unlocks the harder ones. The second Good campaign gives some excellent fights - better than most scenarios. If you get into Homm3 or Homm4, you might try looking on the web for scenarios. People have put in a lot of work creating and reviewing maps.

econ21

05-22-2006, 01:15

Played around a little with Homm5 today - on about the 4th of the Haven campaign. They are all basically tutorials - no AI opponent until the 5th, which we've seen on the demo. But they are fairly engaging. Abysmal voice acting and story-telling. But the gameplay is ok. The strategic level suffers from the new graphics - it's just much harder to be "strategic", as it's harder to work out where you are in relation to everything else. The battles are ok - a little rough round the edges (just fought 15 pitlords and they kill 100+ creatures in a couple of rounds. yikes!).

Still too early to pass judgement, but it seems to resemble the other Nival effort I tried - Silent Storm - ie some very good ideas, but just lacking the production values of major US companies (in terms of polish, story-telling, voice acting, balancing etc). In some way rather amateur, although that may be an insult to modders considering how polished I find some RTW mods like RTR.

frogbeastegg

05-23-2006, 17:27

Finally my order has shipped. 24 hour dispatch my left foot :grumble: Now it will arrive neatly in time for me to pick up the package when it comes through the door and head back to work after my two days off. :grumble: The first patch is due in a few days, so there may be some compensation.

econ21, have you found that it is easy to break the scripting in the missions, thus breaking the mission itself? I took a quick glance at the official forums, and saw this complaint arise in roughly half the (admittedly few) threads I mentioned.

Which makes me wonder, just how scripted is the game anyway?

econ21

05-23-2006, 18:03

I haven't devoted any more time to it, yet - I've been distracted by the RTR PBEM I've been organising.

The missions I've done - the haven campaign - are very scripted. I haven't broken them, but then I've been dutifully following my orders. I'm uneasy about the whole AI vs scripting issue, but daren't go back to the boards yet. Somethings you just don't want to know.

I should say, though, that Nival's other effort that I played - Silent Storm - had its faults, but bad AI was not one of them, IIRC. Hopefully the patch will deliver - I still can't believe the developer said they left working on the AI until late in the day. :dizzy2:

frogbeastegg

05-24-2006, 11:57

Got it! With a whole half of a day off left to play it ... once I finish the bit of writing I was working on, and if I drop the book I was going to read.

Installed Heroes 3 Complete, checked the readme and found that it does include both add-ons, which it installs as part of the default. It seems like this is a reissue of the old bundle edition. Loaded it up, and I can't find a version number. Am I likely to need any patches? Also, is there any way to change the resolution? The default is pretty unkind to my eyes on my LCD monitor.

Installed Heroes 4 next. It also has both add-ons. Again, no idea of version number or where I stand on patching. Help? My guess is that if there were patches after the second add-on (whichever that was ...) I might need them.

I had to laugh at the system check messages put out by HOMM3 and 4.

Setup has detected that you have 2GB of memory available on your system. The game requires 32 (or 128 for HOMM4) MB to run. The game may run sluggishly, become unstable, or fail to run at all. DO you wish to continue?" Oh noes!!!1!1! Sorry, am in a silly mood

Now to install HOMM5.

econ21

05-24-2006, 13:53

No, I don't think you'll need any patches, froggy.

Given that you have Homm3 complete, can I recommend at some stage you look for the "Middle-Earth_Allies" map by Jean-Francois Beaudoin? If you like Lotr, it is an amazing map - when you get the hang of it, try playing it as Elves on impossibe. To be honest, it's about all I play with Homm nowadays - periodically, I just load it up and enjoy computer gaming at its finest. It's a small zip, so I can e-mail it to you if you can't find it.

frogbeastegg

05-24-2006, 17:11

Great, good, thanks. And yes, I'll take a copy of the scenario, and any others people recommend. ~:)

Anything on HOMM3's resolution? The default is not nice at all. :crosses fingers:

Done the first two missions of the first HOMM5 campaign. Nice relaxing little tutorials, quite enjoyable to amble around, if a little dull because they are so easy. The old froggy exploration instinct is still alive and kicking - I hit the level cap on both and still found more resources and battles which I couldn't pass up. I like that; finding things is a good part of the fun for me.

The game's performance is a lot better than the demo's, and I haven't bothered to update my drivers yet either, so it looks like some good tweaking was done. No crashes either. Impossible to comment on the AI because so far there hasn't been any, just stationary parties waiting for me to attack them. One out of two major frog concerns met, with judgement on the other deferred; not bad at all.

The documentation though, gah! The English is a bit squiffy both in-game and in the manual. In the tutorial campaign they keep referring to the hero as "he" when it is plainly and undoubtably a "she". I saw one sentence, a skill description IIRC, which didn't make any sense at all. The manual itself is skimpy. There is nothing about the creatures and skills, and this is my biggest bugbear at present. I've no idea if that party of whatevers is cannon fodder or a bit dangerous until after I have engaged them, no idea what most of my units can do other than the basic and obvious move/hit or move/shoot, no idea what the special abilities and status I see listed on the creature details screen mean, no idea how to use the special abilities, nothing. Gah!

I am definitely finding that having a lot of ranged units is the way to go. With a couple of blocks of simple infantry to stand in front of them and do pretty much nothing at all for the entire battle I can win easy and without much/any damage. Love the human cavalry unit though, so powerful!

Agreed with the comment on the story. Abysmal. Not even consistent in the big details; one minute whatsherface is no warrior and needs protecting, the next she is in her own custom suit of armour off to fetch an army and fight because it is what she has always been good at. Oh well, it doesn’t matter too much, but it is a shame. Some very few strategy games do decent stories, and a good plot would have worked really well with this style of game.

Blodrast

05-24-2006, 18:32

Thanks for sharing your impressions, econ21, froggy.
froggy: It's quite interesting that you didn't have any challenges so far in the first couple of missions. In previous games, you often had a bit of a hard time because of the level/skill caps, and because of the AI scripting - you were really harrassed sometimes, and had to run around like crazy to avoid battle.
Also, for unit abilities and such, I think you can have a look at mightandmagic.com, they have all units with their abilities and what not. It's a starting point, if nothing else :)

Also, froggy: it's a matter of taste, of course, but I loved homm3's campaigns - especially some of the ones in Armageddon's Blade. Do give them a spin if you have the time/inclination.

frogbeastegg

05-25-2006, 19:07

The first campaign is mainly a tutorial, filled with stationary groups of what must be low-level creatures. I was able to wander around and avoid the groups which looked like they might be hard, saving them for when I had a better hero and army. At which point I steamrollered them as effortlessly as I did all the other parties. So I expect the easiness is intentional, and it will heat up later. I hope. I doubt I am a froggy prodigy.

I did take your suggestion of checking the website. Unfortunately most of that encyclopaedia is still to be compiled, including the actual creature stats.

I will try HOMM3, probably after I finish/get bored with/wait for a patch for HOMM5. I'm going to see if running it in windowed mode will do something for that resolution.

Blodrast

05-25-2006, 19:44

hmm, no, I remember I read all the creature stats on a webpage, including nice comparison charts. I am sure of that.
I'll go look it up again, maybe it was somewhere else, although...

edit: Ok, it's not on their website, but I can't remember where I did see it. I know it's out there somewhere... like I said, they had comparison charts and rankings of creatures, as well - just like those that were made for all previous heroes games.

However, all is not bad. You might wanna check out the following page: http://www.celestialheavens.com/viewpage.php?id=520. It contains a nice explanatory "skill wheel", with downloadable flash and xls versions.

David

05-26-2006, 10:58

this site? (http://www.heroesofmightandmagic.com/heroes5/heroesofmightandmagic5v.shtml)

Good site with explanations of abilities and creatures and such. Also might wanna check the forum.

Great game btw. I'm now at inferno level 3 and it is actually quite challenging. I even had to resign one game and start the level over. Story gets slightly better, probably because demon hero is way cooler than the princess.

Blodrast

05-26-2006, 17:54

yup - that's the one, thanks David.
crap, I just wanted to bookmark it and noticed I already had it in my bookmarks. So I could have pointed you out to it yesterday, but I was too blind/stupid. gah.

What can you tell us about the scripted AI ? Is it blindly and stupidly trying to achieve its objectives over and over, with complete disregard of the actual possibility to accomplish them ?

For instance, in previous games, let's say one of the AI's objectives was to capture some town if you had taken it away from him. So, imagine the following scenario: you killed off everything the AI had, except one town, which you're allowing it to keep just because you don't wanna finish the scenario ('cause you're still exploring, leveling up, etc, etc).
While some of the time it would just get stuck in its castle, quite often it would get a week's worth of troops, and march boldly to... "defeat" you. Even though it was friggin' obvious it was overnumbered by orders of magnitude, it would still go ahead with it.
I mean, come on...

frogbeastegg

05-27-2006, 14:23

Thanks, looks like a great site. I'm sure I'll spend a few hours reading it all :book: Also liking the skill wheel.

Finished the Queen's campaign all of 10 minutes ago :balloon2: That last level was far easier (and more polished!) than the demo version, or so I found. It could be just experience talking; I have some idea of what I am doing now, instead of blundering about clueless. On to the next one, where hopefully there will be a bit more challenge.

Questions:

1. The griffin. Is it me, or is this unit a bit crap? It's poor in melee combat (at least it certainly felt like it when nearly every other unit in my armies was doing more damage), fragile (I lost soo many of these things!), and its battle dive ability is so slow it doesn't usually get a chance to fire before the battle is over and won. On the rare times it did fire it did pathetic damage, and the griffin dropped into a bad location and got itself beaten up. I can't see why I want to bother with this unit when I can almost anything else.

2. There's a spell called ... instant transportation(?). How does it work? When I tried to use it a few times the cursor only turned into the spellbook in a radius of 1 inch of screen space about my character. Everywhere else, no go. Seems completely pointless, since my hero could walk at least ten times as far in one turn.

3. The counterstrike skill. The description is awful, badly translated, and makes no sense. What on earth does it do? "Allows to upgrade human troops up the tier" Eh? And I don't understand all this training grounds malarkey either; no matter what level of the skill I had, what buildings were in place, I was told that my skill and/or buildings were insufficient to train any of the unit types I had. Since it is the faction’s special unique skill it surely must have a use, ergo I am missing something.

:grumbles about the lack of documentation and translation of the game once again:

screwtype

05-27-2006, 14:50

I've only played the demo, but...

1. The griffin. Is it me, or is this unit a bit crap? It's poor in melee combat (at least it certainly felt like it when nearly every other unit in my armies was doing more damage), fragile (I lost soo many of these things!), and its battle dive ability is so slow it doesn't usually get a chance to fire before the battle is over and won. On the rare times it did fire it did pathetic damage, and the griffin dropped into a bad location and got itself beaten up. I can't see why I want to bother with this unit when I can almost anything else.

The upgraded Griffins (I forget what they're called) are pretty useful. Battle dive is actually terrific against ranged units, because they rarely move and are usually still in place when the dive is made. The other advantage of battle dive is the enemy doesn't get a counterattack against the grifs.

The downside is that if the dive misses it leaves the grifs hurt and vulnerable. But this doesn't usually happen so long as you confine its attacks to the ranged units.

3. The counterstrike skill. The description is awful, badly translated, and makes no sense. What on earth does it do? "Allows to upgrade human troops up the tier" Eh? And I don't understand all this training grounds malarkey either; no matter what level of the skill I had, what buildings were in place, I was told that my skill and/or buildings were insufficient to train any of the unit types I had. Since it is the faction’s special unique skill it surely must have a use, ergo I am missing something.

Yeah, it's rather hard to understand, and I never tried using it, but I think the way it works is that you can nominate a unit to protect with your hero, and then whenever that unit is attacked, your hero gets a free shot at the attacker. I think that's what the idea is. But I'm not sure.

frogbeastegg

05-28-2006, 18:11

Battle dive is actually terrific against ranged units, because they rarely move and are usually still in place when the dive is made. The other advantage of battle dive is the enemy doesn't get a counterattack against the grifs.

The downside is that if the dive misses it leaves the grifs hurt and vulnerable. But this doesn't usually happen so long as you confine its attacks to the ranged units.
This is what I thought the ability would be great for. In practice I found that I could kill most ranged units in one go with my own archers or with a cavalier or angel unit, and do so faster than the time it takes for battle dive to trigger; battle dive also had a nasty habit of leaving most of the enemy stack alive. It's effectively one attack per two turns, which is bad. Doing things the frog way I cleared out most of the enemy grunts on turn one, got the morale boosts and finished off most of the stragglers with the extra moves this gave me, then killed the ranged units and leftovers on turn 2.

But. It feels like the full game version of that mission is easier than the demo one, so possibly the player's units are stronger here than they normally are. Or the hero is of a far higher level than the enemy one, and so giving massive advantages. There must be something, because the more I think on how easily I sliced through everything I met the more I find it hard to believe Haven is so powerful and the other factions so feeble.

Yeah, it's rather hard to understand, and I never tried using it, but I think the way it works is that you can nominate a unit to protect with your hero, and then whenever that unit is attacked, your hero gets a free shot at the attacker. I think that's what the idea is. But I'm not sure.
You are thinking of a different skill, 'retaliation'. You're right about what it does though.

I found an explanation about training on the site above. It allows a unit to be converted to another unit for a sum of gold, the better the unit you convert the more skill is required. Fair enough ... except I had level 2 of the skill and still couldn't convert peasants, or anything. Hmmmm.

What I still don't know is whether the "Besides, damage dealt on retaliation strikes is increased by X%" part works as I would expect. That alone would make the skill worth buying into.

David

05-29-2006, 10:58

Training is the special ability of Haven troops, like Inferno's Gating. Works like this: Build training grounds in town, move hero with ability in town, and use the special ability button. Bottom left, middle of the circle (also for other towns, like artifacts and avenger). You can upgrade troops one tier, ie peasants to archers..

frogbeastegg

06-01-2006, 19:17

I'm now at inferno level 3 and it is actually quite challenging. I even had to resign one game and start the level over.
Yep, there's a big difficulty spike right at this mission. I'm happy, because I was still waltzing my way through with ease. I'm less than pleased because it seems yet another of those "Rush! Rush! Rush faster!!!" missions. Being a builder/explorer type I hate that, and after the last two timed missions I was hoping for a break.

I'm still on my first go at the mission, but I think I may need to restart. There are some nasty things on this map, and that Elven hero gets so many units. I guess there is no way to do this one slowly? I can't say how deeply I hate having to rush in any game.

Do like Agrael though :gring: He's got a bit of personality.

Still liking the game, only wishing I could return to taking things a bit slower.

Lehesu

06-02-2006, 03:25

What is this game like, exactly? Is it like Disciples 2, as I very much enjoyed that game.

AntiochusIII

06-02-2006, 09:16

What is this game like, exactly? Is it like Disciples 2, as I very much enjoyed that game.Having played Disciples 2, and having played HOMM3 (which, according to all the rumors and hype, is quite the same as this new sequel), I must say they have a lot of differences between them. Disciples 2 is very much concentrated on one single party that is your heart and soul and must be saved at any cost (else all the experience goes to hell), and "grand strategy" is limited to a very individual scope. HOMM series take a wider look on grand strategy and all the cities can be developed (no super capital ala Disciples 2, though) to their own extent, more than one hero can actually be on the frontline (though a main hero is still a preferred strategy), units can be sacrificed for the sake of victory (no lv ups for the grunts), different "holding the empire" systems (Disciples being based on rods on strategic assets and cities to spread the green, while Heroes is, arguably, based on hero, or at least in later games parties of units, presence, protecting the mines and recruting grounds).

Nonetheless, at heart the games are quite the same: very good turn-based fantasy strategies where every choice matters. Although Disciples 2 is far more individual. To sum it up, you probably would like it; but to be safe, you should try HOMM3 first (it is hailed as the series' zenith, and the creators of this new one has deliberately been trying to create HOMM5 as "HOMM3's sequel") and see if you like it.

Talking about Disciples now have me wanting the Rise of the Elves expansion. Dangit!:sweatdrop:

Lehesu

06-02-2006, 20:32

Rise of the Elves is pretty good, although the new mana is not very well implemented. Why should I try 3 instead of waiting for the price on 5 to go down?

frogbeastegg

06-03-2006, 19:31

IMO the best thing to do is pick up one of the special HOMM5 packages. If you are in the UK you can get the entire series for £29.99, including all add-ons, as an Amazon exclusive. Outside of the UK the bundles vary; I'd investigate them. Sure I heard about one with HOMM 3 (minus add-ons)and 5 in ...

Myself, I find that most of my time is going into HOMM5. Somehow it feels more fun than what I tried of HOMM3. In 3 the towns were too simple, upgrading them to the maximum was too easy; the higher level units could be reached far faster. Then there's also the many tiny tweaks made to the series, such as showing how many creatures are killed as well as the damage an attack will do when you place the cursor over an enemy unit, or the bar which shows the order in which creatures will get their turns. Small things, yet good improvements, and together they add up. The fixed low resolution doesn't help, it gives me a headache and hurts my eyes after a short time; I still haven't found a way around it. Damn LCD monitors and their native resolutions.

Not that I dislike HOMM3, or have given up on it. Simply, I'll finish with 5 first, because I don't see any reason to do otherwise.

Gealai

06-04-2006, 05:05

I wanted to thank all of you for your comments :book:

As HOMM2 was my first love, and HOMM3 the first long-lastingrelationship in the wide gaming world :laugh4: I was keen to see part V of the line. Never played number 4. Looks good indeed, although 3d really is overrated. Reading now stats of HommV while the Ganges is flowing by with the sounds of the Siddarta and mystic fog floating above it. Crazy :no:

Like the sylvians, a bit less the dungeon, however the Acadamy will remain my favorite

x-dANGEr

06-13-2006, 23:59

Leet Eriksson

06-14-2006, 01:48

My special edition had HOMM2 is this ordinary :dizzy2:

Also is there a place to buy HOMM3 to see why its so good?

HOMM 5 is probably the bestest game i have ever paid for besides Hitman Bloodmoney, its just so much fun!

Leet Eriksson

06-14-2006, 01:50

Having played Disciples 2, and having played HOMM3 (which, according to all the rumors and hype, is quite the same as this new sequel), I must say they have a lot of differences between them. Disciples 2 is very much concentrated on one single party that is your heart and soul and must be saved at any cost (else all the experience goes to hell), and "grand strategy" is limited to a very individual scope. HOMM series take a wider look on grand strategy and all the cities can be developed (no super capital ala Disciples 2, though) to their own extent, more than one hero can actually be on the frontline (though a main hero is still a preferred strategy), units can be sacrificed for the sake of victory (no lv ups for the grunts), different "holding the empire" systems (Disciples being based on rods on strategic assets and cities to spread the green, while Heroes is, arguably, based on hero, or at least in later games parties of units, presence, protecting the mines and recruting grounds).

Nonetheless, at heart the games are quite the same: very good turn-based fantasy strategies where every choice matters. Although Disciples 2 is far more individual. To sum it up, you probably would like it; but to be safe, you should try HOMM3 first (it is hailed as the series' zenith, and the creators of this new one has deliberately been trying to create HOMM5 as "HOMM3's sequel") and see if you like it.

Talking about Disciples now have me wanting the Rise of the Elves expansion. Dangit!:sweatdrop:

I hated the feature where you had to level up your units in Disciples 2, but i have to say it has a rather awesome selection of units! On another note if you carried on your leveled units the game would become a total cakewalk.

x-dANGEr

06-14-2006, 11:15

Well I must admit I enjoyed HOMM3, too. I remember riding with my superb hero fearless, and then find out that the enemy's hero am facing has 67 Arch Devils.. Oops! But one warning about HOMM series, once you play the first game, you will stick to it till you finish it, and you may even re-play it. Whatever version it is, you will love it. Though, you need to know that all the graphics and 3D things are only that viable in 5, which annoys me that they haven't used it well enough.. I mean, come on, terrain advantages anyone? Also, their are many abilities un-explained, which only makes it harder for the new guys to the series to play the game and enjoy it. (Just one rule when playing a HOMM, keep playing till you start enjoying it)

Favre

06-17-2006, 18:13

Im becoming more and more dissapointed everyday i play the game. The battles get extremely old with like 500 small battles occuring before a decent size battle. I also dont like how strict and close-minded the campaign is, it doesnt allo0w for anything to go wrong without losing the game.

Also, on the last mission of the Haven campaign you face an army of like 2,000 Strong ass creatures, I couldnt even beat them with about 1,200 troops of the highest tier. And amassing 1200 troops takes a long time.

I just wish they had struck a happy balance of number of battles you face.

Dorkus

06-17-2006, 18:20

The number of creatures your enemy has depends on how long it takes you to finish the map. As with neutral creature growth, enemy heroes will amass greater numbers (even if they are scripted additions to the scenario) the longer you wait before facing them.

The haven campaign is quite boring. Even on heroic difficulty level, it should be very easy so long as you focus on training. (Priests to cavaliers, and peasants to archers) The inferno campaign is quite fun, however.

Like most heroes games, however, homm5 gets boring as you move through the campaign. When I got to the warlock campaign, I realized that I had already figured everything out about the game, and there was really nothing interesting left to do. I still got something like 20 hours out of it, which is more than any other recent game (and makes homm5 a worthy purchase), but unlike many others, I don't really see replay value, at least in offline play.

Edit: those comments don't really do justice to this game. I am a very critical game player, and I also tend to play through games very quickly. I probably spent around 10 hours researching the games mechanics (and inadvertently learning a lot of tactics for various scenarios), for example, before I even started playing. I would guess that a less impatient player would get significantly more than 20 hours out of this game. And despite teh somewhat negative reviews, I think it's far better than any pc game that has been released this year.

Favre

06-17-2006, 22:20

Anyone who has beat the first campaign i have a majr question, What am i supposed to do on the last mission where you must hold off the enemies whi9le they attack dunmoor?

I have taken both Dunmoor and the Demon city, I defeated all their army's, and they dont even get "Red player" turns anymore, Anyone know what i gotta do?

My only objective is to keep Godric + Isabel alive, and yto hold dunmoor. Im already in month 6 almost into 7 :/

The Wizard

06-17-2006, 23:40

Is this game anything like Age of Wonders? That game, the last TBS I played, was one of my favorites.

Dorkus

06-18-2006, 05:03

yes, it's very similar to age of wonders. if you enjoyed aow, i highly encourage you to play homm5. Different people have different tastes. I'd personally rate the two as about equal (and disciples 2 as superior). But i imagine that's probably a minority position. aow had a lot of polish.

frogbeastegg

06-18-2006, 09:20

It's reasonably similar to AoW: turn based fantasy strategy with heroes to build up and put in charge of your armies, magic, a scattering of cities per map to capture and build up, tiered units unique to each faction. I like both.

Myself, I am getting fed up with the rushing. I'm on mission 4 of the inferno campaign, and the entire campaign has been one big rush. I hate using tiny crappy armies to march about in a hurry capturing everything within a couple of weeks, and I don't like playing for long amounts of time only to find the AI cheats have given the AI an impossible army I can't now beat and so must restart and try again. I like to take things slowly and methodically. This was possible in the Haven campaign, though that one was boringly easy. I hope it will be possible in the other campaigns and scenarios; anyone able to give a frog a ray of hope on this?

The AI cheating itself is also annoying me. When I win a battle where I am outnumbered and struggling to win I expect a bit more for my pains in scraping through with hardly anything left than the same hero back next week with an even bigger army he couldn't have raised naturally. I want a challenge, but I want it to come from something fairer than the AI having shedloads of free resources each week, free units, and loads of lucky hits in battle when our luck stats/skills are equal.

I'm still liking the game, but I'd be so much happier if I could slow down and if the AI didn't cheat as outrageously.

Favre, sounds like you have hit a scripting bug, or haven't found the Tears of Asha. Mini walkthrough with a few spoilers:

When I did the mission I captured Dunmore, then rescued Isabel. I then spent a while building up Dunmore, exploring and capturing resources, and creating a grand army. I did not capture the demon town, I could have but decided not to in case it ended the scenario or something. When I owned most of the map I found the tears of Asha, and installed them. At this point I was attacked at Dunmore twice more; on defeating the armies I had a cutscene and a new objective to send Godric for help. I gave him a good army and sent him through the already clear map to the garrison at the bottom right corner, killed them, and marched on through to the bit of road Godric needs to get to. He disappeared, objective complete. It was then a simple case of waiting a turn or three for Nikoli to appear. Despite the objective you aren't meant to join him in battle; just head his way with your army and Isabel, and a cutscene should trigger.

Mission complete.

x-dANGEr

06-18-2006, 12:20

About the 'HUGE' armies matter, it's all about having more town to be able to field bigger armies. Story-wise, the game isn't that great, everything is static and nothing varies if you play it again.

Leet Eriksson

06-18-2006, 12:43

the campaign is like an introduction to each faction (but it gets tougher with each campaign)

I have to say though, the demon campaign is the worst and puts alot of players off, but once you finish it you are rewarded with the undead campaign, which is in my opinion the best campaign in the game.

The hero of the campaign is a total bastard, and his dialogue is so charming and sarcastic. Really i kid you not, they really put alot of work and talent in the undead campaign, especially the voice of the undead hero Markal, its just so well done.

frogbeastegg

06-18-2006, 18:04

About the 'HUGE' armies matter, it's all about having more town to be able to field bigger armies.
But still, it comes down to something I'm not keen on - needing to take as many towns as quickly as possible. Only after taking most of the towns can you relax and look about. Blergh. Taking towns and big battles should be something to look forward to and build for, not something to scramble through with a handful of mostly low level creatures.

And if the main enemy hero has been sat in the main enemy town for a long time building up his army each week and sitting around safely doing nothing while my main hero has to fight lots of battles which drain his creatures then it will take a lot of weeks of sitting there clicking 'end turn' for my towns to produce enough creatures to catch up with and counter that enemy hero.

Maybe my perspective is skewed. The Haven campaign is so limited, and of the missions I've played with inferno 2 have no cities, one is a famously unbalanced pain in the rear, and the fourth I haven't finished yet. I've had two attempts at that mission; on the first I lost because it took me too long to find any towns except the inferno ones, so giant AI armies were hounding Agrael. I won some crazy victories but to no point - I couldn't replace my losses quickly enough. Fair enough; no complaints about that. The second I took two towns in two weeks, captured all nearby resources as well as some distant ones, got a second hero and second army, slaughtered a collection of AI heroes and small armies, and was really doing very well ... until the giant AI armies filled with good units and summoned elementals turned up and massacred my second army and hero, captured the inferno town, mauled Agrael's army down to worthlessness, and then took the second Silvan town. I was building up both towns at a furious rate of knots since the start of week 2, building in both on nearly every turn, and I hadn't reached the higher two levels of units by the time it was over. Eh? How much faster can a frog be?

Favre

06-18-2006, 18:07

Favre, sounds like you have hit a scripting bug, or haven't found the Tears of Asha. Mini walkthrough with a few spoilers:

When I did the mission I captured Dunmore, then rescued Isabel. I then spent a while building up Dunmore, exploring and capturing resources, and creating a grand army. I did not capture the demon town, I could have but decided not to in case it ended the scenario or something. When I owned most of the map I found the tears of Asha, and installed them. At this point I was attacked at Dunmore twice more; on defeating the armies I had a cutscene and a new objective to send Godric for help. I gave him a good army and sent him through the already clear map to the garrison at the bottom right corner, killed them, and marched on through to the bit of road Godric needs to get to. He disappeared, objective complete. It was then a simple case of waiting a turn or three for Nikoli to appear. Despite the objective you aren't meant to join him in battle; just head his way with your army and Isabel, and a cutscene should trigger.

Mission complete.

Where are the tears if Asha? I dont believe i have found that.

Leet Eriksson

06-18-2006, 18:19

Where are the tears if Asha? I dont believe i have found that.

Its random, every time you start a mission where it requires the tears it is placed randomly, what you have to do is find 3 obelisks gaurded by some neutral creatures and it will reveal part of the puzzle map, once you find all 3 the puzzle map will uncover the location, search around the actual map and see which part is identical to the location in the puzzle map.

to dig it out, end your turn, and do not move your hero, click on dig (takes your entire heroes movement points to dig, if you don't find it it will give you a not so obvious hint (like "its northwest of your location" or something like that).

Dorkus

06-18-2006, 22:32

Well, frog, I have to say I disagree with you. You can always relax by playing the game on easy. My own view is that the entire point of this sort of game is to force you to rush -- to take risks on difficult battles, and reload when you lose.

If the AI did not scale up as dramatically as it does, then there would be no challenge -- even at heroic level.

Granted, a few scenarios are a bit extreme. The inferno scenario where you have hordes of elven creatures spawning left and right is such an example. But in general, the time pressure placed on the player seems about right to me. If you take your time capturing mines and building buildings, then you SHOULD pay for it later in the scenario.

Favre

06-18-2006, 22:35

I figured out what it was, my cutscene to "find the tears of asha" never came up, that seemed to be the problem.

I re-did it on my own and finished, now im getting pwned on the second campaign. Where do i head to on the 1st mission of second campaign when your running from Godric?

screwtype

06-18-2006, 22:45

Is this game anything like Age of Wonders? That game, the last TBS I played, was one of my favorites.

Yeah, it's a lot like AoW.

IMO, the biggest difference, apart from the nice 3D graphics in HOMM5, is the combat. In AoW you get maybe 24 critters on each side in a really big combat, whereas in HOMM you will typically have hundreds.

You might think that would make HOMM combat better but in my opinion it doesn't. The battlemap in HOMM looks suprisingly cheesy for a 3D game, it looks like a glorified chessboard basically. And after a while, I started to find the combat quite tedious and to be dreading having to slug my way through yet another battle.

That's quite a different experience than I had in AoW II and III where the combat can be really tense as you struggle to belt that last hitpoint off that last monster. I've had heaps of really epic, nailbiting combats in the AoW games, but the only thing I've really found epic about the HOMM combat is the frickin' time you spend slogging through them (actually, the combats in HOMM are probably much quicker to resolve, but because there are so many of them, after a while they really start to bug you).

Doesn't mean that HOMM5 is no fun, but playing through five levels of the demo didn't really grab me enough to consider forking over the cash for it. Maybe when it goes budget I will pick it up.

And then, there's nothing in HOMM quite like getting that first Wizard's tower up and running. Gives me a stiffy every time. :laugh4:

The Wizard

06-19-2006, 14:21

Sounds good. Age of Wonders indeed was a very exciting game. If the combat of HOMM5 isn't as good as that, I'll ask about the next most important thing: the story. Can it compete with, for instance, Age of Wonder's quite enthralling one?

Blodrast

06-19-2006, 18:56

About the combat: well, one can always use the quick-combat option.
I've only played the Haven campaign so far, but I agree that it can get boring to fight 264 neutral stacks per minute...

Dorkus: Since I haven't yet played all the campaigns, I can't say whether the campaigns in homm5 are better or worse than in previous games. I can, however, tell you that I for one spent many many great hours playing the hundreds of community-created maps for both homm3 and homm4...

These are, after all, two of the biggest lacks this game has (imo): the lack of scenarios (I remember previous games had something close to a hundred scenarios, and each add-on brought more), and the lack of a map/scenario editor. Hopefully those will be released soon, and the community will get to work :)

frogbeastegg

06-19-2006, 19:31

You can always relax by playing the game on easy.
Blergh, No thanks. I don't want to play against an AI which does nothing. There is a vast difference between playing something with no challenge at all, and playing something with a steep challenge in which you can take your time a bit. Most strategy games offer various paths for success, with rusher being only one of them, each having strong and weak points. If the game is reasonably balanced than all paths are viable, though often some are stronger than others.

to take risks on difficult battles, and reload when you lose.
And that's where I disagree. Reloading after setbacks is as good as cheating and destroying half the challenge and fun - it gives you no chance to make a comeback.

If you take your time capturing mines and building buildings, then you SHOULD pay for it later in the scenario.
I do take mines quickly, and explore. I get most of the random resources, kill most of the neutral stacks, and so on. I build up frantically - there's not a turn goes by in which I do not build if I can afford it, and I can afford it most turns. Heck, in my last game I had the resources coming in to upgrade two towns at once, turn after turn. Believe me I'm not being slow or idle.

The problem is that in the levels I've played so far the AI starts out with a massive lead, and there is no choice or other way to win but to rush to crush that advantage. I don't mind such maps once in a while. It’s like my other type of disliked maps: time limited ones. Inferno has been nothing but those two types. Are the other campaigns different?

This combines with the AI's cheating for resources. I hate cheating AI; I accept it as necessary in some circumstances, if the cheating is limited and the AI has some decent level of play in the first place. I don't like an AI which ignores mines and resources half the time, a lack which is compensated for by its being given resources for free. It's sad when I can send an army into enemy territory and find most of the neutral stuff is still untouched, ready for me to take advantage of. It's sadder when I then get pulped during that expedition by an army the AI couldn't hope to fund. Make the AI pick up the miens and resources, then let it cheat if necessary.

I also think that battles for cities should be a bit more than a few tiny bunches of low level units fighting it out.

Think I might skip over Inferno’s last two missions and try one of the other factions. Or try one of the scenarios.

Favre, try this (http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?TID=17779) thread; it’s a collection of posts on the various missions of the inferno campaign. There’s some at the start on mission 1. Myself I followed what felt like the obvious path, using the chests for experience instead of gold, and getting Agrael the line of skills which boost travelling speed. Did it on my first go; as long as you don't explore too much or waste your units in too many fights against the more dangerous neutrals it's easy enough.