Latino Land [Archive]

solypsist

04-18-2006, 03:25

i can see where this is going.

"unwashed hordes?"

typing in a political and cultural opinion can be done, properly and effectively, without stooping to such levels of language.

if country bashing is not allowed herethen this sort of thing (in the terms below) isn't, either.

you know - i just came back, a few hours ago, from what was a fantastic trip from austin through the hill country to dfw and i left feeling good. as silyl as it may sound to some, i really did feel a sense of state pride wash over me as i saw streets with historic names like san jacinto and san saba. the capper was reading a cormac mccarthy book on the plane back to nyc. now after seeing this post i have nothing but a sour feeling about my former home; i think overreactive posts make texas look bad. thanks a lot.

I doubt it.... I will not tolerate this flag I will not tolerate having to leran spainish I will not tolerate the unwashed hordes coming over my border. Send them back shut the borders off. These people come and make pockets of poverty we donot need and destroy culture

Redleg

04-18-2006, 03:33

i can see where this is going.

"unwashed hordes?"

typing in a political and cultural opinion can be done, properly and effectively, without stooping to such levels of language.

if country bashing is not allowed herethen this sort of thing (in the terms below) isn't, either.

you know - i just came back, a few hours ago, from what was a fantastic trip from austin through the hill country to dfw and i left feeling good. as silyl as it may sound to some, i really did feel a sense of state pride wash over me as i saw streets with historic names like san jacinto and san saba. the capper was reading a cormac mccarthy book on the plane back to nyc. now after seeing this post i have nothing but a sour feeling about my former home; i think overreactive posts make texas look bad. thanks a lot.

Did you take any good pictures of the Hill Country. Some of the best Terrian is in that part of the state. The Devils Backbone was one of my favorite Drives coming out of San Marcos.

Strike For The South

04-18-2006, 03:36

Sour Feeling? Becuase I dont want Texan culture underminded? Soly I know your smatter than that. Acouple of points

-There here illegaly in the first place

-They drive down wages to the point were no one else will work that job becuase it isnt enough money to sustain themsleves

-With there low wages they are forced to buy/rent substandard housing further creating proverty and probably sustaing it into future generations

-Many make no attempnt to assamilte they wave there flags and speak Spainish in public settings which goes agianst "wannting to be American in the first place"

-Its not only them its the spineless poloticans on captiol hill who are letting this happen and wont do anything.

So we have a illegal group of people who are hurting the economy and promoting proverty while making no attepmnts to assimalte and the poloticans who wont do anything and you dont care?

I live in the hill country it is bueatiful

Alexanderofmacedon

04-18-2006, 03:52

ON TOPIC: Have any of you heard what I'm talking about?:inquisitive:

JimBob

04-18-2006, 03:54

Redleg

04-18-2006, 04:07

Aztlan is, some chicanos believe, a 'racial zion'. Aztlan happens to be the American Southwest it was big during the 60s and 70s with the chicano movements. The Brown Berets and such.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aztlan#Places_identified_as_Aztlan

They still exist but are much more low key then in the past. I saw some of the standard protest signs from the Aztlan movement - ie the land is stolen and other such signs - but all in all they were not very representive of the majority of the protests or protestors.

Soulforged

04-18-2006, 04:22

Sour Feeling? Becuase I dont want Texan culture underminded? Soly I know your smatter than that. Acouple of pointsSorry to dissapoint you STFS but culture is ever changing you cannot anchor it where you please. Besides that culture will be "undermined" even if the inmigrants were legal.

-They drive down wages to the point were no one else will work that job becuase it isnt enough money to sustain themsleves Is there a link to know how this econimic process takes place?

-With there low wages they are forced to buy/rent substandard housing further creating proverty and probably sustaing it into future generationsAgain another economic information that shocks me...

-Many make no attempnt to assamilte they wave there flags and speak Spainish in public settings which goes agianst "wannting to be American in the first place" This is funny I thought that "wanting to be American in the first place", meant something in the lines of freedom of something, maybe you can remember it. To you then, they cannot speak they native language in public, because in some strange way it "undermines" your culture or offends your morallity? How does this all works, I'm stunned...

...unwashed hordes... I wash myself every day, can I go?

Strike For The South

04-18-2006, 04:29

Sorry to dissapoint you STFS but culture is ever changing you cannot anchor it where you please. Besides that culture will be "undermined" even if the inmigrants were legal.

No culture isnt ever changing espacilly not this qucikly

Is there a link to know how this econimic process takes place?

Its simple a man gets paid 10$ hr for a job then another man comes along saying he will do it for 5. It is happening.

This is funny I thought that "wanting to be American in the first place", meant something in the lines of freedom of something, maybe you can remember it. To you then, they cannot speak they native language in public, because in some strange way it "undermines" your culture or offends your morallity? How does this all works, I'm stunned...

Yes freedom but you first must speak english accept the culutre ETC. Then you can speak spainsih or play with you culture.

I wash myself every day, can I go?

If you are going to try to portray me as a gringo racist you couldnt be farther from the truth the illegals and regular mexicans are completly diffrent.

Alexanderofmacedon

04-18-2006, 04:33

No culture isnt ever changing espacilly not this qucikly

Its simple a man gets paid 10$ hr for a job then another man comes along saying he will do it for 5. It is happening.

Yes freedom but you first must speak english accept the culutre ETC. Then you can speak spainsih or play with you culture.

If you are going to try to portray me as a gringo racist you couldnt be farther from the truth the illegals and regular mexicans are completly diffrent.

SFTS, best friend is Mexican, don't you guys forget it...:juggle2:

Soulforged

04-18-2006, 04:47

No culture isnt ever changing espacilly not this quciklyYes it's. Every time you learn a new word on spanish and speak it to your fellow man you're inititing a long process of change.

Its simple a man gets paid 10$ hr for a job then another man comes along saying he will do it for 5. It is happening. Sorry but that's not as simple as it sounds. When you've an stable employee who works for 10/h you don't have to pay his training, or pay his the recesion of the contract (is that the expression in english?), nor waste any time, wich may cost a lot more to your company than to pay less salary. Companies very rarely change all employers simply because they want more salary than others, for moral reasons and for prudential reasons as well.

Yes freedom but you first must speak english accept the culutre ETC. Then you can speak spainsih or play with you culture.So if I go as a turist I should learn to speak english first? Should it be a fluent english? Should I learn to spell it right? Should I know to express every sentence in it? Freedom of expression means exactly that. Beyond that matter I don't see why? Is there some higher purpose in your desire?

If you are going to try to portray me as a gringo racist you couldnt be farther from the truth the illegals and regular mexicans are completly diffrent.I don't know you, I'm in the internet. However that was only a friendly joke, and sarcastic, I'm pretty sure that you didn't meant to call all latin americans "unwashed hordes" did you?

Alexanderofmacedon

04-18-2006, 04:51

I'm pretty sure that you didn't meant to call all latin americans "unwashed hordes" did you?

I don't stick up for him much, but Anthony didn't mean it that far...

Strike For The South

04-18-2006, 05:07

Maybe but primary culture shouldnt change. I may leran spanish but I will always use english first. Just as they can speak spanish but must leran englisha and use it in public domain.

Sorry but that's not as simple as it sounds. When you've an stable employee who works for 10/h you don't have to pay his training, or pay his the recesion of the contract (is that the expression in english?), nor waste any time, wich may cost a lot more to your company than to pay less salary. Companies very rarely change all employers simply because they want more salary than others, for moral reasons and for prudential reasons as well.

Excepct Texas is a right to work state where employess may be termanated at any time for any reason with no benifits.

So if I go as a turist I should learn to speak english first? Should it be a fluent english? Should I learn to spell it right? Should I know to express every sentence in it? Freedom of expression means exactly that. Beyond that matter I don't see why? Is there some higher purpose in your desire?

Being a tourist and illegal are 2 diffrent things and incomparable Id help you if you were just a tourist.

I don't know you, I'm in the internet. However that was only a friendly joke, and sarcastic, I'm pretty sure that you didn't meant to call all latin americans "unwashed hordes" did you?

right were on agreement on that.

Edit: I have to send you a story in espanol

Edit2: Thanks AOM

Alexanderofmacedon

04-18-2006, 05:10

Edit2: Thanks AOM

Just a Texan helping a Texan ~;)

Divinus Arma

04-18-2006, 05:27

Aztlan is the reclaimation of the "original latino land". Radical latino groups like mecha propogate this in the chicano underground. The mayor of Los Angeles used to be a Mecha member, as was California Lt. Governor Bustamante.

There is a very real effort by many mexicans to retake this area, not for a new country, but to join with the old.

Alexanderofmacedon

04-18-2006, 05:34

Soulforged

04-18-2006, 06:32

Maybe but primary culture shouldnt change. I may leran spanish but I will always use english first. Just as they can speak spanish but must leran englisha and use it in public domain.My point is that it's ever changing. I would tell you something and then I'll ask you some questions. First I don't have any problem with any one who comes here and talks his own language in public, what's your problem with that? Really I want to understand that. Second, how do you think it "undermines" your culture? Or even better...name the three favourite elements of your culture and let's see if they're actually incompatible with say...mine... Even if they're actually incompatible or even contradictory it doesn't mean that they can't live together.

Excepct Texas is a right to work state where employess may be termanated at any time for any reason with no benifits. Have you seen any legal texts or something on that? It should have some limits. Besides the cost is already great, and the mechanics of salary, employement and inflation can turn pretty bad for companies by doing this kind of things unchecked.

Being a tourist and illegal are 2 diffrent things and incomparable Id help you if you were just a tourist.Yes they're a different thing. However my point is that I'm going to talk spanish with my friends, for example, when I'm there, in public. Does that undermine your culture? If not then what undermines it?

Edit: I have to send you a story in espanolAs you please ¡Mandámela cuando quieras!

Aztlan is the reclaimation of the "original latino land". Radical latino groups like mecha propogate this in the chicano underground. The mayor of Los Angeles used to be a Mecha member, as was California Lt. Governor Bustamante.Long live anarquism!!!:2thumbsup:

scooter_the_shooter

04-18-2006, 13:10

I dont want to go OT.... but do any of south western orgah know any thing about ranch rescue. They seem kind of like minute men but hardcore. I am making a thread about them ,post some info there please, they seem pretty interesting...

Taffy_is_a_Taff

04-18-2006, 13:15

I'm always entertained that Texas was part of an independent Mexico for something like 15 years.
Before that it was a SPANISH colony that saw several attempts to become independent from the SPANISH empire.

Now some of the mixed Indian/White Mexicans appear to claim to be dispossessed Aztecs who have decided that Texas is part of a mythical Aztec homeland (which if it ever existed was further south anyway).

I love this sort of stuff, almost as funny as the white people being devils that were created by a mad scientist on the moon to torture blacks stories from the more weird black nationalists.

Bah! people.

Major Robert Dump

04-18-2006, 13:47

That would be funny for them to start their own country, especially when they started crossing back over the border for jobs and to get free stuff.

Taffy_is_a_Taff

04-18-2006, 13:52

That would be funny for them to start their own country, especially when they started crossing back over the border for jobs and to get free stuff.

especially if they tried to get back into Mexico...Have you compared the Mexican and U.S. immigration laws? They're good and harsh, the way immigration laws should be.

Viva Mexico! (but in Mexico)

yesdachi

04-18-2006, 13:58

especially if they tried to get back into Mexico...Have you compared the Mexican and U.S. immigration laws? They're good and harsh, the way immigration laws should be.

Viva Mexico! (but in Mexico)
I was listening to the radio the other day (the Sean Hanity show I believe) and they read parts of the Mexican constitution, it was hardcore and clearly not followed.

Alexanderofmacedon

04-18-2006, 15:11

I was listening to the radio the other day (the Sean Hanity show I believe) and they read parts of the Mexican constitution, it was hardcore and clearly not followed.

You should watch the TV show on FOX News.

BigTex

04-18-2006, 16:04

Originally posted by Soulforged
First I don't have any problem with any one who comes here and talks his own language in public

They don't just speak it in public, the speak it in school, workplace, everywhere. Most do not bother to learn english, this cuases chaos. Mexicans have always been apart of Texas, quite a few have been here for generations and are Texans.

Second, how do you think it "undermines" your culture?

The culture change occurs becuase your getting millions of people flooding in and setting up small neighborhoods. You can now go to almost anywere in Texas and find a taco, but gluck finding that barbecue place. The culture also occurs becuase we are importing massive amounts of poverty. When they get here they will still live in poverty becuase they work for 5$'s an hour.

Have you seen any legal texts or something on that? It should have some limits. Besides the cost is already great, and the mechanics of salary, employement and inflation can turn pretty bad for companies by doing this kind of things unchecked.

You can be fired for not tieing your shoe lace, for having a bad hair day. There are no limitations to it, though after you are fired, you could sue. Company's have been exchanging expierenced labor for cheap labor for awhile now, and yes it has driven down the wage. There are quite a few jobs that used to pay 10$'s that now pay minimum wage.

Originally posted by Taffy_is_a_Taff
I'm always entertained that Texas was part of an independent Mexico for something like 15 years.
Before that it was a SPANISH colony that saw several attempts to become independent from the SPANISH empire

Texas was only briefly part of the mexican country. Soon after mexico gained independance from spain, Texas begain its revolution to overthrow the tryany of Santa Anna. We gained independence from mexico, and became the only country to become a US state.

Aztlan is the reclaimation of the "original latino land". Radical latino groups like mecha propogate this in the chicano underground. The mayor of Los Angeles used to be a Mecha member, as was California Lt. Governor Bustamante.

especially if they tried to get back into Mexico...Have you compared the Mexican and U.S. immigration laws? They're good and harsh, the way immigration laws should be.

Something we agree on Taff. Mexican immigration laws are insane compared to ours, if you get cuaght you have a good chance of dieing in one of their prisons. They do not punish people though who immigrate back across to mexico from the US, that would hurt their ecomony that is based on illegal immigration. Mr. Fox has even said in a couple speaches that their economy was based on illegal immigration. The mexican government even hired a US publicity company to help sway American opinion to let the illegal immigration continue. In fact those treason bast**ds are located right here in dallas. They also have hired lobbiest to lobby congress to keep the borders open.
The mexican government only applys their immigration laws on their southern border, to prevent south american immigrants from sneaking through and getting to the US. They have most of their army at work on their southern border preventing their illegals from getting in and screwing up their economic plan.

There is a very real effort by many mexicans to retake this area, not for a new country, but to join with the old.

They can take it from my cold rotting coffin.:rifle:

Taffy_is_a_Taff

04-18-2006, 17:52

Texas was only briefly part of the mexican country. Soon after mexico gained independance from spain, Texas begain its revolution to overthrow the tryany of Santa Anna. We gained independence from mexico, and became the only country to become a US state.

Just to clarify, I was saying that it's insane that some Mexicans claim Texas: a couple of years as part of Mexico compared to much longer in other constitutional arrangements. Spain's got a better claim to it than the nation of Aztlan or whoever.

I heard that the native americans of the southwest have started to take some defensive measures due to the influx of Mexicans and others across their border land. You know, the real natives rather than the half white/half indian Mexicans who want to claim that description.

BigTex

04-18-2006, 18:14

Just to clarify, I was saying that it's insane that some Mexicans claim Texas: a couple of years as part of Mexico compared to much longer in other constitutional arrangements. Spain's got a better claim to it than the nation of Aztlan or whoever.

I heard that the native americans of the southwest have started to take some defensive measures due to the influx of Mexicans and others across their border land. You know, the real natives rather than the half white/half indian Mexicans who want to claim that description.

Yes it appears I got confuzzled about that, It sounded like you were supporting mexico's claim to Texas. Thanks for the clarification. Yeah the Aztecs never even got close to the rio grande as their border. There's a huge mountain range thats nothing but desert seperating the aztecs land from CA, AZ, TX, NM. Their claims are ridicolus.

Yes I heard about the native american tribes begining to amp up restrictions on illegals. Quite a mess we seem to have.

yesdachi

04-18-2006, 18:24

You should watch the TV show on FOX News.
I’ve seen it a few times and like it, but it comes on at the same time as my little ones bath and bed time, and that is a no “potentially bad dream inducing show” time zone. ~D

Alexanderofmacedon

04-18-2006, 22:13

I’ve seen it a few times and like it, but it comes on at the same time as my little ones bath and bed time, and that is a no “potentially bad dream inducing show” time zone. ~D

You're a father?!?!

Am I the youngest one here???:wall:

Lol, well congratulations.:2thumbsup:

Soulforged

04-19-2006, 03:23

They don't just speak it in public, the speak it in school, workplace, everywhere. Most do not bother to learn english, this cuases chaos. Mexicans have always been apart of Texas, quite a few have been here for generations and are Texans.Sorry amigo it must be a huge difference of opinion, I wouldn't mind even if another language was speaked in any area, as long as they speak to me in a language that I can understand. I don't think it creates chaos, just diversity.

The culture change occurs becuase your getting millions of people flooding in and setting up small neighborhoods. You can now go to almost anywere in Texas and find a taco, but gluck finding that barbecue place. The culture also occurs becuase we are importing massive amounts of poverty. When they get here they will still live in poverty becuase they work for 5$'s an hour.Undermining has some bad connotations, were is the bad turn in the culture? Without mixing it with economic problems. I assume you can still choose to eat tacos or barcecue, right.

You can be fired for not tieing your shoe lace, for having a bad hair day. There are no limitations to it, though after you are fired, you could sue. Company's have been exchanging expierenced labor for cheap labor for awhile now, and yes it has driven down the wage. There are quite a few jobs that used to pay 10$'s that now pay minimum wage.Ok. So they take another approach, one in wich they assume that the sues will flow like a river, wich is of course unrealistic. At least you gave me a reason to wish living here.

Kaiser of Arabia

04-19-2006, 03:59

Easy solution. Let us annex Mexico, Centeral America and Canada. Yay for Manifest Destiny.

yesdachi

04-19-2006, 04:48

You're a father?!?!

Am I the youngest one here???:wall:

Lol, well congratulations.:2thumbsup:
Heck, my shorty is nearly 4 and I’m in my early thirties, but I’m young at hart. Or maybe like my wife says, I just refuse to grow up. ~D

Redleg

04-19-2006, 04:49

Heck, my shorty is nearly 4 and I’m in my early thirties, but I’m young at hart. Or maybe like my wife says, I just refuse to grow up. ~D

She probably sends you to your room without supper ..

:shame:

Alexanderofmacedon

04-19-2006, 05:02

She probably sends you to your room without supper ..

:shame:

:laugh4:

Bad experience?

caravel

04-19-2006, 10:52

Sour Feeling? Becuase I dont want Texan culture underminded? Soly I know your smatter than that. Acouple of points

What is "texan culture" and how would it be "undermined" by a few immigrants, that according to you can't even speak the same language? All cultures are constantly changing, such is life, the only way to avoid such change, or put it off, is to force the culture into isolation, e.g. like some of the Andean Indians or central african tribes who have no contact with the rest of the world. What kind of culture is this that is so fragile that it can be seemingly eroded by a few immigrants that don't interact much with your's anyway because of the language barrier?

-There here illegaly in the first place

I'm sure that, in the eyes of some indigenous peoples, the texans and most of the white colonists are there "illegally" also, in fact I'm probably illegally in the UK as I've no doubt that my race must have displaced someone elses race at some point back in history...

-They drive down wages to the point were no one else will work that job becuase it isnt enough money to sustain themsleves

They usually migrate to a country because there is a demand for them. i.e. there are nasty jobs that the whites don't want to do! That is that they are given the opportunity by your own goverment. People living in poverty will always sieze such an opportunity when it is presented to them.

-With there low wages they are forced to buy/rent substandard housing further creating proverty and probably sustaing it into future generations

This is not exactly their fault, but the fault of your country/state, that is allowing these people in as cheap labour, for exploitation.

-Many make no attempnt to assamilte they wave there flags and speak Spainish in public settings which goes agianst "wannting to be American in the first place"

It is not so simple to convert people to another culture overnight. In the case of ghettos where many people of the same cultures are forced to live together for security due to being largely unwanted by the greater population, and the racist sentiments of many, they have no choice, nor any incentive to learn English, and any such assimilation will probably be much slower.

-Its not only them its the spineless poloticans on captiol hill who are letting this happen and wont do anything.

Well precisely, so why didn't you mention them first, as they are the actual cause of the immigration and they have the power to stop it permanently now if they wished? They are not spineless they are doing it for economic reasons, as these immigrants make good cheap workers for their big corporations.

So we have a illegal group of people who are hurting the economy and promoting proverty while making no attepmnts to assimalte and the poloticans who wont do anything and you dont care?

They are not promoting poverty, how can poverty be promoted? The entire reason that they are there because they want a better life. Their own countries are impoverished undemocratic messes. Many of the problems in south and central america have been caused by US interference and exploitation. Now they're coming to your country, and you don't like it. Yes the mess you've made is coming back to haunt you, and unfortunately you're too close and convenient to avoid it, like Spain can (and they started it all).

I doubt it.... I will not tolerate this flag I will not tolerate having to leran spainish I will not tolerate the unwashed hordes coming over my border. Send them back shut the borders off. These people come and make pockets of poverty we donot need and destroy culture

As a person that is married to one of the "unwashed hordes" you refer to I could take exception, happily I've become accustomed to the inherent racist ignorance in western society so your words are nothing new to me.

L'Impresario

04-19-2006, 13:05

Guess NAFTA didn't promote that much of a growth as to convince people to stay in Mexico eh?
Actually it's quite funny that, while advocating a free trade zone, no US government will ever advocate free movement of persons, sticking only to capital and products, for many, many years to come. The wealth disparity between the two countries is so great tho, that the market tries to regulate this, esp. when barriers are posed.
Ofcourse pushing for the deregulation and opening of foreign markets is easier than your own.

yesdachi

04-19-2006, 13:34

As a person that is married to one of the "unwashed hordes" you refer to I could take exception, happily I've become accustomed to the inherent racist ignorance in western society so your words are nothing new to me.
You’re married to an illegal immigrant? I think that is who Strike is referring to and much of what he said is valid IMO.

caravel

04-19-2006, 13:45

You’re married to an illegal immigrant? I think that is who Strike is referring to and much of what he said is valid IMO.

He was referring to the spanish speaking "unwashed hordes" from across the border, at no point in that post did he differentiate between those that were immigrants, legal or otherwise. Also he was talking about immigration in general not illegal immigration. Those that are entering his country and working while supposedly "promoting poverty", whom of which he was referring to, are likely to be legal immigrants and not illegal ones.

yesdachi

04-19-2006, 14:08

He was referring to the spanish speaking "unwashed hordes" from across the border, at no point in that post did he differentiate between those that were immigrants, legal or otherwise. Also he was talking about immigration in general not illegal immigration. Those that are entering his country and working while supposedly "promoting poverty", whom of which he was referring to, are likely to be legal immigrants and not illegal ones.
Actually there have been several comments within Strikes posts, especially #12 and #16 that indicate he is referring to illegal immigrants. You seem passionate about the topic but try reading the entire thread before you become too accustomed to the inherent racist ignorance you point out.

Redleg

04-19-2006, 15:19

Guess NAFTA didn't promote that much of a growth as to convince people to stay in Mexico eh?

Not at all - there is growth in industry in Mexico - not as much as was expected under the NAFTA - but enough to show that the concept was initially sound.

The problem in Mexico is that industry is not spread out to the point that it can actually assist the development as the nation as a whole. Parts of Mexico have great economic growth - while other parts remain in economic decline.

Then there is the overall corruption of the Mexican government. Everyone sees the reports of the corruption in the United States government and the EU. But what you don't see in the papers is how minor in scope (numbers and violence) that corruption is compared to what happens in Mexico on an almost daily basis. In the Dallas Paper I normally read about at least one case of violent corruption coming out of Mexico weekly.

Actually it's quite funny that, while advocating a free trade zone, no US government will ever advocate free movement of persons, sticking only to capital and products, for many, many years to come. The wealth disparity between the two countries is so great tho, that the market tries to regulate this, esp. when barriers are posed.

You might want to check out the immigrantion laws of Mexico. Undocumented labors have been shot for being in Mexico by the Federal Police. And then your statement leaves out the complexity that involves the free movements of persons across national boundries, the Eu has some success in this area - and is something that the United States could use as a model if the issue of illegal immigrantion and undocumented workers can be settled between the nations in NAFTA.

Ofcourse pushing for the deregulation and opening of foreign markets is easier than your own.

If other nations don't upon up their markets then there is no reason to open yours now is there?

Louis VI the Fat

04-19-2006, 16:06

Alexanderofmacedon

04-19-2006, 16:25

BigTex

04-19-2006, 17:31

Originally posted by Caravellini
What is "texan culture" and how would it be "undermined" by a few immigrants, that according to you can't even speak the same language? All cultures are constantly changing, such is life, the only way to avoid such change, or put it off, is to force the culture into isolation, e.g. like some of the Andean Indians or central african tribes who have no contact with the rest of the world. What kind of culture is this that is so fragile that it can be seemingly eroded by a few immigrants that don't interact much with your's anyway because of the language barrier?

You need to do some more research on Texas. We are already the 2nd largest state in the country and we are the fastest growing state in the country. It is not a few immigrants but a few tens of millions. The USA is already the fastest growing 1st world nation and we happen to be the states thats growing the fastest, so no its not a frail culture, its a culture thats being changed by so many moving here. The 22 million illegal immigrants are slowly trying to turn Texas into Mexico, something since our great states creation we have opposed. You seem to forget that over the centurys a good number of wars and smaller skirmishes have been fought between Texas and Mexico. It is not a few immigrants with a language barrier, its millions, that would cuase any nation, state, or province major problems, stop trying to minimalize the problem so you can get another round of Texas bashing in.

This is not exactly their fault, but the fault of your country/state, that is allowing these people in as cheap labour, for exploitation.

Wrong, when the floods of illegal immigration from Mexico has cuased the drop in wages then, yes it is their problem.

They are not promoting poverty, how can poverty be promoted? The entire reason that they are there because they want a better life. Their own countries are impoverished undemocratic messes. Many of the problems in south and central america have been caused by US interference and exploitation. Now they're coming to your country, and you don't like it. Yes the mess you've made is coming back to haunt you, and unfortunately you're too close and convenient to avoid it, like Spain can (and they started it all).

The USA interference was minimal in most south american countries. Most of the problems are caused by virrus like corruption or the drug lords. Sure you could blame US hippes for supplying the demand for the drugs, but its not just the US hippy's but the European hippies using south american drugs.

As a person that is married to one of the "unwashed hordes" you refer to I could take exception, happily I've become accustomed to the inherent racist ignorance in western society so your words are nothing new to me.

He is not refering to Legall as "unwashed hordes" but the millions of illegal immigrants. Texas has always been the anti-mexico we won our independence from that country a century ago and the number of illegal immigrants swell across the Rio Grande is causing that raw area to be rubed sore. It is not racist to want to defend your state and country from an invasion by another. Though I do find through your words you hate the US, what would that make you?

Actually it's quite funny that, while advocating a free trade zone, no US government will ever advocate free movement of persons, sticking only to capital and products, for many, many years to come. The wealth disparity between the two countries is so great tho, that the market tries to regulate this, esp. when barriers are posed.
Ofcourse pushing for the deregulation and opening of foreign markets is easier than your own.

Mexico has some of the harshest immigration laws in the world of any non communist country. Most of their army is used to prevent ANY immigration into their country from south american countries. Most south american countries also have insanely harsh laws to prevent immigration. Compared to south/central America, we have an open border policy.

L'Impresario

04-19-2006, 18:57

Mexico has some of the harshest immigration laws in the world of any non communist country. Most of their army is used to prevent ANY immigration into their country from south american countries. Most south american countries also have insanely harsh laws to prevent immigration. Compared to south/central America, we have an open border policy.

Yes, but the other american countries aren't part of a treaty with Mexico, similar to NAFTA, not?
OTOH, the border control situation in Latin American countries is rather fickle, with many disputes and non-controllable borders, a characteristic example being Colombia and its neighbours.

Strike For The South

04-20-2006, 00:47

As a person that is married to one of the "unwashed hordes" you refer to I could take exception, happily I've become accustomed to the inherent racist ignorance in western society so your words are nothing new to me.

funny real funny. The "jobs whites wont do" your right there for the simple fact the money is to low to make a living! Everything else I said is valid Texan culture is sacred to the 21 million Texans already here llegaly wether they be black or mexican or white. The illegals bring mexican culture here and agian dont assmaltie. So you can sit there comfortbaly and take the side of these poor downtrodden souls and you make all better in your mind by saying Im a racist westener when you in fact know nothing of this sutiation.

Soulforged

04-20-2006, 02:54

In real life, not long ago I had a conversation with a girl from Argentina. As we discussed immigration, to my surprise she suddenly started a rant about illegal immigration into Argentina. In a language that would make SFTS blush, she repeated all the arguments about illegal immigration that people have raised here too. Also, there was a significant degree of racism in it, especially when she spoke about Bolivians.
I guess she was a rich one. In both senses. But you're right a lot of people have irrational and trivial fears, others do so only out of hate. Bolivians and paraguayans are constantly discriminated here, but very little is said in the media about any mayor problem caused by them. They work hard, the build houses, they drive busses, cabs, they clean houses, the put little business. Perhaps it's just me, because I never felt in that way to anyone strange to me, wheter it was his skin, his way of speaking, his alien culture, they always appear the same to me, that's why I cannot put myself in the shoes of those that talk about culture being undermined, I simply don't understand it.

Hey I should put "The hands that built America" while reading and writing this...But even better: "Natives be afraid of foreing influence" - The Gangs of New York, swayed in a big american flag. I just wonder what that influence was?

caravel

04-20-2006, 16:03

You need to do some more research on Texas. We are already the 2nd largest state in the country and we are the fastest growing state in the country. It is not a few immigrants but a few tens of millions. The USA is already the fastest growing 1st world nation and we happen to be the states thats growing the fastest, so no its not a frail culture, its a culture thats being changed by so many moving here. The 22 million illegal immigrants are slowly trying to turn Texas into Mexico, something since our great states creation we have opposed. You seem to forget that over the centurys a good number of wars and smaller skirmishes have been fought between Texas and Mexico. It is not a few immigrants with a language barrier, its millions, that would cuase any nation, state, or province major problems, stop trying to minimalize the problem so you can get another round of Texas bashing in.

While I can appreciate some of what you're saying, how exactly is this the Mexican's fault? If your government was interested in controlling it's borders more efficiently then surely this wouldn't happen? Also I'm not "Texas Bashing" as I haven't as yet posted a single bad word about Texas.

Wrong, when the floods of illegal immigration from Mexico has cuased the drop in wages then, yes it is their problem.

It may be their problem but they are not directly responsible for it. Any government can bar excessive immigration if it want's to do so.

The USA interference was minimal in most south american countries. Most of the problems are caused by virrus like corruption or the drug lords. Sure you could blame US hippes for supplying the demand for the drugs, but its not just the US hippy's but the European hippies using south american drugs.

American interference is massive in most south and central american countries and always has been, obviously you've never been to South America.

He is not refering to Legall as "unwashed hordes" but the millions of illegal immigrants. Texas has always been the anti-mexico we won our independence from that country a century ago and the number of illegal immigrants swell across the Rio Grande is causing that raw area to be rubed sore. It is not racist to want to defend your state and country from an invasion by another. Though I do find through your words you hate the US, what would that make you?

As usual you play the old "you hate America" card, how predictable. I made no such statment ,and that is wholly untrue. As I said before, his post made no such distinction between legal, illegal or whether they were immigrants or not. Whether he meant it or not is not the issue. If I had made a similary vague generalisation you would have instantly challenged it.

Mexico has some of the harshest immigration laws in the world of any non communist country. Most of their army is used to prevent ANY immigration into their country from south american countries. Most south american countries also have insanely harsh laws to prevent immigration. Compared to south/central America, we have an open border policy.

Exactly correct, so why doesn't your goverment enforce stricter border controls? Surely one would expect such policies from the right wing republicans currently in office?

funny real funny. The "jobs whites wont do" your right there for the simple fact the money is to low to make a living! Everything else I said is valid Texan culture is sacred to the 21 million Texans already here llegaly wether they be black or mexican or white. The illegals bring mexican culture here and agian dont assmaltie. So you can sit there comfortbaly and take the side of these poor downtrodden souls and you make all better in your mind by saying Im a racist westener when you in fact know nothing of this sutiation.

If the money is too low to make a living, who's fault is that? Are these mexican companies hiring mexicans to do cheap labour in Texas? I doubt it. As usual it's big corporations that don't want to pay a decent wage, looking greedily across the border at a massive cheap labour pool. I know enough of the situation, to come to the conclusion that this is the fault of the administration that is allowing this immigration, and not the immigrants themselves. Isn't this just basic common sense?

People always blame immigrants if their country is experiencing economic problems, or their kids are getting into crime. It's always the same old story of the malign influence of immigrants pushing those decent folks towards a life of crime, and stealing their jobs.