Franconicus
04-21-2006, 11:29
I have a question on a more religious-historical than military-historical topic. Hope you do not mind!
Although I’d rather like to discuss it here, Kraxis, please move it to the backroom if you think here is not the right place for it.
At the Eastern holidays I had to realize that I had not understood one of the important issues of the bible and although I cogitated and read since then I still have no clue.
I am talking about the Kingdom of Heaven or Kingdom of God.
Obviously this is something that Jesus talked about quite often. However, like other things, it is not very clear what he meant. Obviously the listeners had a clear picture.
The Romans believed that Jesus wanted to build a kind of kingdom. In their view there could have been no coexistence of this KoH and the Imperium Romanum. So they killed him (INRI).
His own followers seemed to think similar. Obviously the death and the resurrection was something they had not foreseen. They were very depressed and had the feeling that the promises were not kept. Obviously they had believed that Jesus would install his rule at Jerusalem immediately.
For the ‘normal’ Jews the KoH was the recreation of the realm of Jerusalem, with a priest king like David or the Messias or God himself as king. Israel would have been at least the privileged country and, in an ethic way, the leading country.
The apostles still believed that the Kingdom was near, that it would come while they were still alive. They also seemed to think that it was a realm on earth, although maybe first all people had to die and resurged. However, they believed that it was a kingdom including the whole world or at least the whole Christianity.
Today I guess the authorities say that it is far at the end of time and maybe more a Kingdom in heaven than a Kingdom of Heaven.
Finally what Jesus says implicates that the KoH was already there, with him on earth, with his wonders and his new interpretation of the law.
So here are my questions:
What do you think that Jesus really meant? How will this kingdom come and what will it look like?
From the historical point how did the interpretation of this central point change through time? What were the main events, documents, persons … ?
Although I’d rather like to discuss it here, Kraxis, please move it to the backroom if you think here is not the right place for it.
At the Eastern holidays I had to realize that I had not understood one of the important issues of the bible and although I cogitated and read since then I still have no clue.
I am talking about the Kingdom of Heaven or Kingdom of God.
Obviously this is something that Jesus talked about quite often. However, like other things, it is not very clear what he meant. Obviously the listeners had a clear picture.
The Romans believed that Jesus wanted to build a kind of kingdom. In their view there could have been no coexistence of this KoH and the Imperium Romanum. So they killed him (INRI).
His own followers seemed to think similar. Obviously the death and the resurrection was something they had not foreseen. They were very depressed and had the feeling that the promises were not kept. Obviously they had believed that Jesus would install his rule at Jerusalem immediately.
For the ‘normal’ Jews the KoH was the recreation of the realm of Jerusalem, with a priest king like David or the Messias or God himself as king. Israel would have been at least the privileged country and, in an ethic way, the leading country.
The apostles still believed that the Kingdom was near, that it would come while they were still alive. They also seemed to think that it was a realm on earth, although maybe first all people had to die and resurged. However, they believed that it was a kingdom including the whole world or at least the whole Christianity.
Today I guess the authorities say that it is far at the end of time and maybe more a Kingdom in heaven than a Kingdom of Heaven.
Finally what Jesus says implicates that the KoH was already there, with him on earth, with his wonders and his new interpretation of the law.
So here are my questions:
What do you think that Jesus really meant? How will this kingdom come and what will it look like?
From the historical point how did the interpretation of this central point change through time? What were the main events, documents, persons … ?