I'm the Pope....and meet my lovely wife!

[Third spearman from the left]

What's this all about!?

In my current XL, Scots, Expert, High game I noticed this.



http://www.totalwar.org/Downloads/Mtw_Uploads/MTWupload/image002.jpg




Anyone have any ideas on how this happened?

[Dragon20]

Yep, popes can marry. You can propose a marriage to the pope too. Dropping an princes directly on the Pope does not work, but dropping your princes on 1 of his emissaries however does work.

[Craterus]

I managed to marry off one of my princesses to the Pope.

[Third spearman from the left]

That's crazy I've got to try that tonight. I wonder if the pope can gain land that way when a faction is wiped out?

:inquisitive:

[Csargo]

The Pope needs lovin too.:2thumbsup:

[Craterus]

? (I forget the exact number, around 3 I think) Popes died having sex... :laugh4:

Caught red-handed, and presumably red-faced too... :laugh4:

[Dayve]

? (I forget the exact number, around 3 I think) Popes died having sex... :laugh4:

Caught red-handed, and presumably red-faced too... :laugh4:

On game topic though... Could popes marry back then?

Edit:
Mithrandir:deleted inappropriate comment

[cegorach]

I am amazed it works in the game I thought it was blocked in pope's behaviour line, strange :inquisitive:

Edit:
Mithrandir: deleted quote from above post

[Peasant Phill]

I have another explanation:

Alberto I is a bribed general. He was married before he was bribed and became pope because he had the most command stars. Unfortunately he can't have official children.

[Craterus]

I'm still certain that I managed to marry a Polish princess off to the Pope.

MTW/VI v2.1

[Ludens]

Some time ago a member posted a picture of the Pope accepting the players offer of mariage, so it is possible. IIRC it was Ironside who posted it.

[Ciaran]

I´ve even had marriage requests from the pope, not once but twice. Had I known this topic would come up today, I´d taken a screenie...

[Craterus]

Hmmm.. me too..

[NodachiSam]

That looks like a very interesting game you have going on. The sicilians in Milan, the Serbs as big as a HRE....

[naut]

I noticed that too, but I think the Pope is always married. I started a new campaign in the Early period as the Papacy to check it, and he starts off married. I think it is designed that way, so he does not re-marry your factions princess. And since in both MTW and VI, it is not possible to play as the Papacy unless you do some Modding in the Startpos files, so no one would have been the wiser to the Pope's secret marriage:

https://img153.imageshack.us/img153/5669/pope2ao.th.jpg (https://img153.imageshack.us/my.php?image=pope2ao.jpg)

[Ciaran]

To the best of my knowledge every King starts of married, usually with some pre-produced children, some underage, some not.

[caravel]

The pope can marry princesses. If you drag your princesses over the pope himself you'll see that he doesn't highlight nor does the marriage proposal parchment appear. However, probably due to a bug, find a papal emissary instead and drop your princess over him this does work, sometimes offers are accepted. The first pope does not start married, and the pope does not produce princesses, nor heirs for that matter, so can't marry them to his generals either.

So the bar on papal marriages does not lay deep within the code, it is a simple interface tweak that prevents princesses from interacting with his campaign map piece and nothing else. This means that the AI factions will be able to bypass this also and propose marriages to the pope. The popes AI type seems to refuse most marriages though so you'll probably not see this often.

[Ludens]

To the best of my knowledge every King starts of married, usually with some pre-produced children, some underage, some not.
Not all, though this does apply to Muslim leaders. With other religions you have to find them a princess, or else they will marry a few years into their reign.

[Weebeast]

Pope Alberto? That's not the 'famous' pope is it? I know Pope Urbans, Benedicts, Innocents, Gregorys, Nicolas', Alexanders, etc but not Albertos.

--

Peasant Phil beat me to it.

[DukeofSerbia]

I play Xl mod. Sicilians in HIGH era.

And I was shocked. :dizzy2: Papal emissary suggested that Pope marry my princess!

https://img62.imageshack.us/img62/3892/sicilijapapatraziprincezu4fy.jpg

[DukeofSerbia]

And Pope Bernardo I now have wife, Sicilian princess! :inquisitive: :wall:

https://img286.imageshack.us/img286/4400/sicilijapapaseozenio5xd.jpg

[NodachiSam]

Wow.
Also, that pope is gonna be trouble for you :P

[Martok]

Yeah, married Popes are always rather trippy to see.

By the way, I know this is off-topic, but who has Constantinople in your game there? Is that the Crusaders?

[NodachiSam]

Hmm I thought it was the Pope's thus mycomment. It looks likeit indeed could be the crusader states. That is bulgaria and Constantinople BTW.

[DukeofSerbia]

Yeah, married Popes are always rather trippy to see.

By the way, I know this is off-topic, but who has Constantinople in your game there? Is that the Crusaders?

Yes, Constantinople is Crusader as I moded XL and Crusaders start with Constantinople as historical was. Bulgars attacked them (as you remember Kaloyan attacked and killed Baldwin) but in XL, Bulgars were crushed when help from Outremer came. Bulgars sieged Constantinople but not enough long and Crusader's counterattack smashed them...

[DukeofSerbia]

Wow.
Also, that pope is gonna be trouble for you :P

This Pope Bernardo I is one of the best allies I ever have. He attacked HRE and now he is in war with Genoa. There is no papal troops in Rome and Papal State as he everything sent into northern Italy. So, I liftd Naples with few units.

[Mithrandir]

I play Xl mod. Sicilians in HIGH era.

And I was shocked. :dizzy2: Papal emissary suggested that Pope marry my princess!

https://img62.imageshack.us/img62/3892/sicilijapapatraziprincezu4fy.jpg


Is it just me or does that ..."woman"...have claws the size of a tiger?

[DukeofSerbia]

Is it just me or does that ..."woman"...have claws the size of a tiger?

Can you (Mithrandir) be more exact, because I don't understand your point?!:help:

[Don Corleone]

On game topic though... Could popes marry back then?

Edit:
Mithrandir:deleted inappropriate comment

There was nothing wrong with priests, bishops or popes marrying back then, and they frequently had several mistresses and illegitimates to boot. Don't forget, in most ways, they were feudal lords themselves... they held land, they fielded troops, the works. They were a feudal order in and of themselves. It was this practice that was one of the driving forces for the reformation... the Church had become a 'faction' in every sense of the word. Church titles became hereditary, priests, bishops etc, would pardon their sons for raids and the like.

The prohibition on priests marrying came about as part of the counter-reformation, when the Roman Church attempted to deal with some of Luther's criticisms that they found valid... what I mentioned above as well as the selling of usery, and even extortion by priests over their parishoners on the grounds of salvation. Priests started demanding that parishoners actually pay them to receive the sacraments or they withold them, dooming the non-paying soul to the lakes of fire.

[Kralizec]

Are you sure? I recall that the (HR) emperors were very keen on giving feudal soil to clergy instead of aristocrats, because as clerics did not produce legitimate offspring the soil would return to the king after the cleric had died.

[Don Corleone]

I'm not 100% sure that it was completely legal, but I am very sure that priests and bishops had children up until the counter-reformation, and they frequently passed their holdings, including the see itself, along to their descendants. Now, whether they bent the rules to do this... who knows. You can't ask the Roman Church now, because they will claim, as they do with all things, that whatever their policy is now is completely consistent with any policy they have ever held throughout their 2000 year history. :dizzy2:

[Mithrandir]

Back to MTW or shall I move this thread to the history dojo ?

[Third spearman from the left]

But it's my only child....do not take it away!!!! :no:

Ok here is one for the XL crowd, has anyone playing the pope tried to marry?

[Martok]

But it's my only child....do not take it away!!!! :no:

Ok here is one for the XL crowd, has anyone playing the pope tried to marry?


I've done it, but that was only because a king (Aragon's, I think) asked me to marry his sister. Given that your faction can't die off (a new Pope is always elected when the old one dies), getting married isn't exactly a priority for me. I didn't even have any sons after getting married--which is a pity!

[Ludens]

I'm not 100% sure that it was completely legal, but I am very sure that priests and bishops had children up until the counter-reformation, and they frequently passed their holdings, including the see itself, along to their descendants. Now, whether they bent the rules to do this... who knows. You can't ask the Roman Church now, because they will claim, as they do with all things, that whatever their policy is now is completely consistent with any policy they have ever held throughout their 2000 year history.
Celibacy was part of official church policy, even though in some places (Saxon England, I believe) it was not enforced. IIRC in the tenth century several nobles and bishops attempted to get rid of the requirement of celibacy for priests, but their rebellion failed due to political reasons. Off course, if you read some authors celibacy appears nothing but a hollow sham, and priests where up to anything apart from actually marrying. I think it rather varied over time and place: there always were people who truly believed in the church's precepts, just as there always were people who didn't care and only were interested in their own comfort. In any large organisation you will have rotten apples, especially if there is little control.

[cegman]

Hah I'd call the pope who started celibacy a bad apple over the men and women engaging in sex while preists/nuns.

[Sethik]

Has anyone tried using the .unfreeze. cheat to get sons while playing as the pope? If you die while having several heirs is a new pope elected or do you pass along to your hiers.

[DukeofSerbia]

I succesfully arranged marriage with Pope!

https://img47.imageshack.us/img47/6180/vizantijapapapristaonabrak1ax.jpg

[DukeofSerbia]

And Pope John XXI is married...:balloon2:

https://img129.imageshack.us/img129/9541/vizantijapapaseozenio1hm.jpg