Combat bonus on expert?

[Dayve]

Does the AI get a combat bonus on expert? Frog's guide doesn't say this but it seems like it to me... I just invaded Scotland, playing as England, early period, expert difficulty. (I'm new but i want a real challenge)

Anyway, i had 3 spearmen and 2 archers, and a 4 star prince. The scottish hillmen dudes seemed to completely rip apart my spearmen, even though my spearmen have 166 men in a unit compared to the hillmens' 100. Is this just a morale bonus? I seemed to lose an awful lot of royal knights fighting enemy archers too... On hard/medium i barely took any casualties from archers when fighting them with my cavalry, so i'm thinking there must be a combat bonus.

[Mithrandir]

Clansmen have a great charge&armour piercing IIRC,so that may have influenced it...

[drone]

Don't think they have armor-piercing, but highlanders will absolutely shred ordinary spearmen. Charge 6, Attack 5. With the added morale bonus (morale being a weak point for HC in normal), clansmen are going to be very tough in the early game.

[Dayve]

So there is no combat bonus? I hate combat bonuses. A couple of weapon upgrades i would be fine with, morale bonus is great because it means longer and more fun battles.

I'll have to develope those men at arms quickly or i'll never conquer Scotland. I'm doing a bit of a roleplay. I'm gonna stick to the British isles until 1200Ad or so, make it really developed and prosperous, then create an empire on the other side of the map, and be the strongest naval power on the board. :2thumbsup:

[Dayve]

Another question i have. How can i make my archers behave? They don't follow orders, and when in skirmish mode they seem to run toward an enemy as it charges at them rather than run AWAY from it... They just will NOT do what i tell them to. When i double click for them to run behind my line it is completely ignored and they start to turn and do silly things... Putting them into loose formation is a hazard because they find it even MORE difficult to follow orders then, so i have to leave them in tight formation which is no good for skirmishers.

Is it just me having this problem or does everybody have to suffer with it?

[Martok]

The AI's troops receive a +4 morale bonus in combat, but I think that's it. Of course, that much of a morale bonus can make a pretty huge difference!

As for archers, yeah, I think quite a few of us have that problem (I know I do, anyway). As a rule, most missile/skirmish units in MTW require the player to baby-sit them to at least some extent. Some units are better than others, but you still have to keep an eye on them so that they don't get caught in melee combat.

[naut]

It can be quite anoying. So I just never put them in skirmish mode, always in hold position and behind my line of infantry. This does restrict me, but it stops them from doing half the stupid stuff they do.

[bamff]

I follow the same pattern as Rythmic - I usually put them in a position where they can't really do their own thing....although sometimes you really pay a price for it...

[Csargo]

I do what Rhythmic does. Archers really piss me off the only ones I really like are longbowmen anyways.

[Ironside]

They do get a combat bonus on expert: 30%, wich means slightly less than 1 valour (don't ask me about the numbers :dizzy2: , I'm simply qouting).
Hard got a 15% bonus.

Think that the comp getting +1 valour and +2 morale on top on that on expert (simular of having a general with 2 more stars).

But as stated, highlanders are supposed to slaughter spearmen and can do considerble damage to royal knights is those are caught in a bad moment.

[drone]

In MTW skirmish, I believe the unit will only skirmish away from their target unit, so they may blunder into another enemy unit while trying to keep their distance. You will just have to micro them. I don't skirmish archers, I just move them in front of my troops, get a few volleys in, then pull them back when the enemy starts marching quickly.

The Highlanders weakness is a combination of defense and morale. Their low defense (-3) means lots of casualties, and on normal difficulty this will usually make them easy to break after the initial surge since their morale is 0. On expert, you can't rely on this, they will just keep dishing out damage. The ideal solution would be to use missile weapons, but their quickness means you won't get in many volleys before they close. You might have to resort to pinning them with your spears then shooting into melee.

[Ludens]

They do get a combat bonus on expert: 30%, wich means slightly less than 1 valour (don't ask me about the numbers :dizzy2: , I'm simply qouting).
Hard got a 15% bonus.

Think that the comp getting +1 valour and +2 morale on top on that on expert (simular of having a general with 2 more stars).
They get +4 morale at expert (and normal morale at hard), but otherwise you are spot on. Still, I did some tests before to see if this combat bonus made a difference, but it is hardly noticable. It's just that an engagement between equal units should turn in the computers favour. It is not like in R:TW were militia units can smash a phalanx just because of increased stats. Off course, my test was done with quality troops (FMAA) so there may be more of an effect with militia and such. The morale bonus at expert does make a big difference though.

[Dayve]

As long as i keep a good general in the army with at least 4 stars the battles aren't all that hard, just challenging, which is what i like.

I wish RTW had kept this system instead of giving the AI stupid +7 attack making battles really quick and completely un-enjoyable. A morale bonus would have been fine. But since CA sold out anyway and concentrated on graphics instead of AI and other things the battles would still be a doddle.

[Ironside]

They get +4 morale at expert (and normal morale at hard), but otherwise you are spot on.


One combat valour gives +1 attack and defence and +2 morale. One valour +2 morale gives 2+2=4 morale. ~;)

But I did formulate it unusually enough to confuse myself when writing about the general :shame: . The morale bonus on expert is high enough to be bigger than the morale bonus a 2-star's higher general gives on the battlefield.

[Ludens]

One combat valour gives +1 attack and defence and +2 morale. One valour +2 morale gives 2+2=4 morale. ~;)

But I did formulate it unusually enough to confuse myself when writing about the general :shame: . The morale bonus on expert is high enough to be bigger than the morale bonus a 2-star's higher general gives on the battlefield.
Now I'm confused :dizzy: . Valour conferred by a general's command ability does not give a morale bonus (except when close to the general). Frogbeastegg is not very clear in her guide, but apparently she is directly quoting a CA staff member (because I recall that quote from somewhere else). Her exact words are:

On easy the player will get an extra +4 to morale in battle, making it harder for the AI to rout your troops. On expert the AI get this bonus. Normal and hard don't give anyone a bonus.

(....)

In addition to these changes LongJohn (another developer) says the following: The combat strength of the a.i. units is affected by the difficulty level.
On easy its combat effectiveness is reduced by 30-40% (can't remember the exact figure).
On hard it's increased by 10-15%, and on expert its 30%. 30% being around 75% of the increase you'd get from 1 valour upgrade.
This is not exactly clear either, but I presume that combat effectiveness does not include morale as it is mentioned seperatly and +4 does not tally with a single valour upgrade, let alone 75% of one.

I left out the bit which states the improvements in battlefield A.I. at higher difficulties and the difference in starting money.

[Puzz3D]

Here is what LongJohn said about difficulty settings:

longjohn2
Programmer
Posts: 135
From:UK
Registered: Nov 2000
posted 10-01-2002 06:35 PM

I can't comment on the strat map.

On the battle map, the a.i. gets progressively better up to hard level. On expert level, the only behaviour difference I can think of, is that it gets a bit more leeway to camp near the map edge if a suitable position is available.

The combat strength of the a.i. units is affected by the difficulty level.
On easy its combat effectiveness is reduced by 30-40% (can't remember the exact figure).
On hard it's increased by 10-15%, and on experct its 30%. 30% being around 75% of the increase you'd get from 1 valour upgrade.
Additionally it gets +4 morale on expert, and the player gets +4 on easy.

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longjohn2

Programmer
Group: Senior Member
Posts: 200
Joined: Nov. 2000
UK
Posted: Mar. 03 2003,15:18

There's no combat advantage to either side on the normal setting.

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My note: Each +1 combat point gives a 20% increase in chance to kill. Since +1 valor confers +1 attack and +1 defense (and +2 morale), that's a 40% increase in chance to kill which is where LongJohn got the 75% of a valor upgrade for the increase in combat effectiveness at expert difficulty.
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Here is what Gil Jaysmith said about the battle AI at different difficulty settings:

GilJaysmith
Code Panda
HOF Award 2002
Group: CA
Posts: 706
Joined: Aug. 2002
Creative Assembly / Littlehampton
Posted: April 26 2003,13:00

Feeling generous, so: here's a reasonably full list of what the battle AI will do at different game settings. This is based on a quick code search; whether some of these points come across in the game may depend on your playing style.

- On expert the AI gets a morale bonus - on easy the player gets one
- On hard and above, AI skirmishers will try to avoid being pincered
- On easy the AI will not consider going into loose formation to avoid being shot at
- On easy the AI will not consider outflanking, double-envelopment, or stop-and-shoot tactics
- On easy the AI won't move troops out of the way of castle walls which may be about to collapse
- On easy the AI will try to hide rather than flee if the battle is going badly
- On easy the AI will not try ambushes
- On easy the AI will not try the 'appear weak' battle plan
- The AI is more likely to deploy in woods on harder difficulties, and less likely to camp near the red zone on easier difficulties
- The AI is more likely to consider scouting the map to find the rest of your army if it can't see it all on higher difficulties
- On easy the AI will not skirmish
- On higher than easy, the AI will specifically consider shooting at your artillery
- On easy the AI will generally attack rather than defend, and will not consider withdrawing for a much longer time
- On higher than easy, the AI will check to see if it's marching into enfilade fire when attacking your main body
- On easy the AI may come out of a wall breach to chase you if you attack and are repulsed

[Ludens]

Thanks for the explanation, Puzz.

[Ironside]

Now I'm confused :dizzy: . Valour conferred by a general's command ability does not give a morale bonus (except when close to the general). Frogbeastegg is not very clear in her guide, but apparently she is directly quoting a CA staff member (because I recall that quote from somewhere else). Her exact words are:


IIRC a good general gives a moral bonus simply by being soo good ~;p
(+1 for every 2 stars I think it was) and a proximity bonus (+1 for every star, I don't think they'll stack).
Doesn't show up in raw data (F1) but only as those bonuses and penalties that's used to calculalte if the troops feel safe or not.

Here's a link for that particular morale affecting stuff on the battlefield sheet.
defensive bonuses (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=25268)

Hmm, Puzz3D I'm guessing you're the MTW stat expert.

[Puzz3D]

Hmm, Puzz3D I'm guessing you're the MTW stat expert.
There are quite a few people who are experts on the stats.

There is an oversight in my first post in the defensive bonuses (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=25268) thread. It mentions double teaming in a combat cycle which is correct, but implies 2 on 1 is the limit. In fact, each man has 8 sides and can be attacked by multiple men in a combat cycle. The limit is the number of men who can fit around him.

[Kommodus]

Another question i have. How can i make my archers behave? They don't follow orders, and when in skirmish mode they seem to run toward an enemy as it charges at them rather than run AWAY from it... They just will NOT do what i tell them to. When i double click for them to run behind my line it is completely ignored and they start to turn and do silly things... Putting them into loose formation is a hazard because they find it even MORE difficult to follow orders then, so i have to leave them in tight formation which is no good for skirmishers.

Is it just me having this problem or does everybody have to suffer with it?

What I do with my archers is this: place them in a long line just in front of the main infantry line. (If the infantry line is short I'll split the archers into two lines, with one line in front of the infantry and the other behind). All are given hold formation/hold position orders.

As the enemy approaches, the archers out in front will start firing at them. Any archers behind the main line will of course wait a bit longer before opening fire. When the enemy gets close, I select the line of archers out in front and ALT-LEFT CLICK on a central point behind the infantry. (Note that alt-left click gives the order to move while retaining formation/facing.) I then press CTL-R to get them to run.

The archers will simply turn around and quickly run behind the infantry for protection. Once they reach their destination, they'll return to their original facing and formation.

Note that you can't wait too long to give the retreat order with this tactic, or your archers will be caught by the charging enemy. This has happened to me quite a bit actually, especially when I was learning how long I could wait before giving the order.

I like having some archers out in front so that I don't give the enemy a range advantage. However, they can be tricky to manage, and you cannot count on the automatic skirmishing.

Finally, I only use loose formation with archers that are in a missile duel. If they are not under fire, close formation is better since it makes them more maneuverable.