Is 'AD/HD' a disorder?

[Kanamori]

Is 'AD/HD' a disorder?

Because I've wondered about this at various times, I pose the question here. Also, I've heard very diverse opinions on this ranging from a simple 'yes' and a simple 'no' to accusations that psychiatrists are in league with the pharmaceuticals just to make money, and to claims that 'everyone has AD/HD'.

I think that it most certainly is, as all reputable evidence points toward this answer.

[Strike For The South]

everyone has it. It is just to what extent they have it. While I belive it is a disorder 9 times out of 10 it is a convienent cop to parents who cant hack it or adolescents looking for the easy way out. One of the reasons this "disorder" is "growing" is becuase the symptons are so abstract anyone could claim it.

[Devastatin Dave]

Nope... Because... uh, what was the question... Look a penny!!!! Damn my nuts itch. Where the #### are my keys? Yes, I like boobies.

[Csargo]

Nope... Because... uh, what was the question... Look a penny!!!! Damn my nuts itch. Where the #### are my keys? Yes, I like boobies.

I'll have what he's having

[Alexanderofmacedon]

I'll have what he's having

I agree with SFTS.

[Papewaio]

I have it.

Particularly after 4 litres of coke, half a kilo of jelly belly beans, 6 espresso's and not having exercised in a long time I get really energetic and aggressive...

[yesdachi]

I think it is. My brother struggles with it but no longer takes medicine; he just knows how to deal with the effects. I do think some people use it as an excuse though. I even think my mom used it as an excuse for my brother sometimes. My wife use to work with someone that, without his meds, was very difficult to talk to and even more difficult to work with. He is a poster child for the chill pill.

[Kanamori]

Of course, everyone throughout the period of their lives experiences some of the symptoms; not many people enjoy doing work that is given to them; people ocassionally forget where they put their keys; there are some days people are fidgety. I think that there are people that display these much more often than is normal, uncontrollably, and not just kids. Also, somebody should definitely correct me if I am wrong, but I think that it is very abnormal to give somebody amphetamine (speed, although this often refers to the drug when it is misused) and have it calm them down.:balloon2:

[doc_bean]

Yes, but it's way overrated these days, and the meds are prescribed to any kid with even the slightest symptoms.

I know something has to be seriously wrong with my kids before I'd put them on (the legal version of illegal) hard drugs. And any teacher who's going to tell me it would be for their best interest best show me their medical license...

[Kongamato]

I have not known anyone with only ADHD, but I suppose that something this documented would have some genuine cases. It seems like it would be easy to misdiagnose, hence the claims that it could be fake. It does make for an interesting sell. If Junior isn't doing perfect on his schoolwork, it can't possibly be his fault, he's got a condition of some kind. For some, medication could be the perfect alternative to helping the children with their homework. Also, would you consider it normal if children paid perfect, unbroken attention in every one of their classes? I should get back to the point. I think it exists, and the questions should be directed at how many people actually have it and how many are misdiagnosed. The true rate of ADHD occurring amongst people will be learned only with the right testing. As of now, I don't know if there is a true, physical yes/no test for this.

[English assassin]

Sure its a disorder. Its closely allied with "not-taking-enough-prescription-drugs-itis" and "pharmacompanymakinglessprofit syndrome"

It's arse. When I was seven I had the symptoms of not liking school, and preferring to run around in fields pretending to kill imaginary Germans (sorry, Germans) or trying to break into empty houses. In the 1970s this was called "being a child".

This is a good read http://www.vernoncoleman.com/ritalin.htm (Vernon Coleman is a nut. But even stopped clocks tekll the right time twice a day)

Would the pharmaceutical companies please just get on and cure a real disease, like malaria or cancer? Or, hell, I'd settle for the common cold.

[Ludens]

It depends on what you call a disorder. You could also describe it as just a very short attentionspan. However, in some cases this can be quite severe. It makes life rather difficult because if you cannot focus on the task at hand, you will halfway think of something else to do and abandon the first task to act on that impulse. Off course, this way you seldom get anything done. There are people who have this all day. So it does exist.

Yet, I do believe it is quite often treated when it isn't there, partly out of pride (my child cannot be that stupid, it is just that he has this ADHD-disease!) and partly from laziness (just give the kid a pill, then the parents/teachers stop whining). The pharmaceutic industry off course encourages this, but it's quite often the parents who demand the pills.

BTW, a lot of bunk is told about Ritalin, by opponents as well as proponents.


Also, somebody should definitely correct me if I am wrong, but I think that it is very abnormal to give somebody amphetamine (speed, although this often refers to the drug when it is misused) and have it calm them down.
I understand the idea is that it stimulates the brain area that coordinates brainactivity, thus reducing chaos and improving impulse control.

[Devastatin Dave]

Sure its a disorder. Its closely allied with "not-taking-enough-prescription-drugs-itis" and "pharmacompanymakinglessprofit syndrome"

Exactly, you should be a doctor!!! Good post....

[Idaho]

Good post EA.

I'll bet that most of the problem kids have poor diets and a lack of exercise. And the cure for this - speed pills... ~:rolleyes:

[Crazed Rabbit]

No in the sense it requries medication. Kids are just being kids, and drug companies are trying to cash in on this, and parent ignorance.

Crazed Rabbit

[drone]

No, it's called "being a boy". The fact that so many parents are willing to dope up their children instead of actually interacting with them speaks volumes about the state of our society.

[master of the puppets]

its not a disorder, its a way of life:2thumbsup: .

i'm saying this as i supposedly have ADHD and... haha srry my freind just said something funny its... oh crap now my mom is yelling, brb.... HOLY SHIT she figured out i'm selling my adderal, i gotta go:dizzy2: .

[master of the puppets]

its not a disorder, its a way of life:2thumbsup: .

i'm saying this as i supposedly have ADHD and... haha srry my freind just said something funny its... oh crap now my mom is yelling, brb.... HOLY SHIT she figured out i'm selling my adderal, i gotta go:dizzy2: .

[master of the puppets]

double post srry

[KafirChobee]

In Florida it has created a new "welfare system", if a child is diagnosed to have it - special dispensations are allowed. So, it is adventageous to have your child put in that catagory. I know of one woman who has all here children and herself on one drug or another for this, that or another thing that works on the sly only - she brings in more than enough from the new welfare not to work at all. It's a scam.

My brothers could have both fallen into one of these catagories - but, the one was just bored (everyone thought he was slow, instead he was advanced and no one realized it - 'til he was tested at age 12), the other was sorta dyslexic (only he didn't reverse things, he just didn't retain things he felt were unimportant). Of course this was back in the 50's and 60's when being stupid or slow were the primary diagnoses for being different.

The number of diagnoses for AD/HD are expotentially equated to the profits of Doctors and pharmacutical companys. As pointed out previously by English Assassin. Good post btw EA.

[Byzantine Prince]

How do I get some of this speed pills? :2thumbsup:

[Moros]

Well I have it, well never was tested but almost everybody says I do. I've never been tested since I'm not going to take any pills anyway (My mum doesn't want me to.) Well not that I would want to take them on a regular basis but I might take some during exam periods for certain exams. Now I sometimes have to learn a few hours on just a simple and small word list. Plus the fact that not a long time ago I had never learned my classes (they say you have to learn everyday 2 hours a day) but I never did till about this year. Never had bad grades touhg, I got alot of A's a few B's and once in a while a C (usually for French or when I was caught looking to someone else exam,...).

Anyway I think it's a disorder for some people more the other, I know alot of people who take the drugs regulary but they only seem half the AD/DH'er I am. I don't see a reason to take it, I'm probably not the most extreme case but I think I've got it big time, I doesn't bother me that much. Yes I have to learn a lot longer sometimes I have to learn so much on such a small thing that when I'm finished I've got to go to sleep. A somewhat bigger problem is that I make a lot of faults in exams or exercises for wich you need to concentrate. How many time did I make stupid mistakes wich lowered my point with 20% or more? (math for example - changes into + or miscounting,...) or sometimes I just was distracted somuch I can't finish my test. And ofcourse I forget about anything I can forget. SO I think you can say it's a disorder but pills on regumr base? no way.

[PanzerJaeger]

Its an excuse for hyper kids with no work ethic.

It is unthinkable to many parents that some kids are simply better than others... there must be some medical reason their child cant compete... adhd!

[Moros]

Its an excuse for hyper kids with no work ethic.

It is unthinkable to many parents that some kids are simply better than others... there must be some medical reason their child cant compete... adhd!
yeah I like learnig hours and hours on something someone else knows in a 10 minutes.~:rolleyes:

[A.Saturnus]

It's in the DSM-IV, therefore it's a disorder. Question answered.

A different question is whether all people who get treated as having it actually do have it. It's like that that's not the case, as the criteria lend themselves to be interpreted very liberal, no specific psychodiagnostic test exists and the diagnosis is convenient for stressed parents and teachers. Note: something like ritalin should never never never be prescribed by a physician.

[BigTex]

I know I have ADD, I've been diagnosed a couple times with it. I do think you should remember to separate the two, ADD and ADHD are quite different, but often grouped together. I dislike the idea of using a medication to correct it. Instead it should be corrected with discipline, one should be able to correct themselves. I havent had major problems with it since I was in High School, but occassionally at work I notice I'm doing 5 different things at once and not finishing any.

It is majorly overdiagnosed, instead of ADD/ADHD being found in the realistic 5% of the children its been diagnosed in over half. Now i'm no psychologist but I did take psychology in HS and one of the definitions of a syndrome was it is a rare condition not found in the vast majority of people. Now if 60% of kids have ADHD obviously a real syndrome is vastly overdiagnosed. It is not so much the drug companies trying to get profits, just try and find some drug adds that are for ADD/ADHD drugs. It is mostly the parents through sheer pride creating an ignorance that their child is just stupid. Or the parents lack the ability to discipline them and let them run wild. A child is a product of the parents and every thing that happens to them will obviously come back to being the parents fault. Trying to blame drug companies is just looking for a scapegoat. Though I've seen someone on here mention doctors, and well its a possibility. If a doctor just opening his practice diagnoses a child with ADD/ADHD he can secure a steady patient coming in monthly.

ADHD is a disorder, but it is insanely overdiagnosed. Also one should be warned ADD/ADHD if not diagnosed and treated can lead to many other more serious psychological problems. ADD/ADHD often lead to anti-social behaviors which will lead to many many many problems later in life.

[Kanamori]

How do I get some of this speed pills?:2thumbsup:

Simple, find someone with ADHD, or get yourself diagnosed. Unfortunately, many disorders are not too hard to get yourself tested positive for, if you know a bit about them. You don't really want methylphenidate, or adderal for that matter, if you like drugs, there are much better out there.


Note: something like ritalin should never never never be prescribed by a physician.

Is your problem with the medication, or the doctor? My guess is the medication, but why? The fact that it is a stimulant? I doubt it could be good for the heart to take day in and day out, and really I'm not found of it at all. Is it abnormal for stimulants like mehylphenidate to calm down people? Studies have shown that medication is more effective than behavorial treatment.

OK, I'll admit, I've been diagnosed with it for a couple of years now. I do not like to encourage self-censorship, and this is why I left it out in the beginning, so please continue the skepticism -- an idea that isn't challenged is not worth having. I do think that some people have a very big misunderstanding of it, though. AD refers to Attention Deficit. This is mostly the portion that I have. HD is the Hyperactivity. Although the latter does effect, it is not the dominant one, and often it is not the problematic one, IMO. If ADHD were just typified by hyperactivity, I would actually say it is quite a lot more fun than being a 'normal' person. Anyway, the destructive part is often the AD part. It is hardly that I never wanted to do well, in fact the reason I ended up being diagnosed was because I was a bit depressed at the time and went to a pyschologist. My psychologist, after listening to my problems on and off for three years, sent me to my psychiatrist. The AD part is destructive, because most of the ones w/ ADHD that do not get diagnosed or never suspect, think themselves teribbly defficient. I always set out in class to pay attention, and I could ocassionally when I found the material interesting, and the hyperfocus aspect of the AD can be very good ocassionally, but unthinkingly, I almost always ended up doodling or 'zoning out' at a wall, totally absorbed in the random stuff going through my head. And really Dave, your sarcastic reply is almost spot on what it is like to have ADHD. I always sat down at home, got my homework out, started on it, and then two hours later I realized that I had wasted my time researching tangents to the real question on the internet, and that I had really only finished one question, at most. No matter how I tried to fix it, and my psychologist tried to fix this behavorially before even referring me to my psychiatrist. Trying to fall asleep is also a nightmare, usually because it takes me at least an hour every night, unless I get high or slam a glass of wine. I start counting to whatever, or try to shut myself up, but my mind flies off a million miles per hour some other way. I also wonder if people regularly experience being utterly unable to ignore something, and focus on what you want to focus on. Typing keyboards send me off the wall, when I do not control them. Tap.. Tap. Tap. taptap tap, tap tap tappity friken tap tap TAP. Gah!

I am not in favor of giving little school children that simply have HD part ritalin. It is detrimental to growth and development, but my ADHD was not a huge problem until school work actual began to involve time. My teachers, looking back at my report cards, always complained that I was a bit hyper, but my parents did dismiss it as me just being a kid. Little kids in elementary school that have ADHD have more fun anyway. And when I do not have work to do, I love giving into the randomness, and my two best friends who also have it, are still quite a sight to see. This is one reason that I lately been really disliking my meds, they turn off the fun and the randomness and creativity.

I think that the definition is a bit vague, and perhaps that it may be drastically over diagnosed, but I hardly think that there is not some disorder -- for the longest time, I hated being told I had a disorder, but it truthfully far from normal and often destructive -- that is described by these criteria. I think the criteria need a bit of refining, though. This is also not to say that some teachers do look for it.

As to the exercise... I'm a long distance jogger, and have been for quite a while, and I started as a recomendation of my psychologist to treat the depression. My other friend who quite obviously has it teaches karate, and has been doing it since he was four.:balloon2:

And as to them being just stupid or unable... :laugh4: (Would you care to compare?)

[Fragony]

Used to have it when I was young, at least that is what I was told. I calmed down when I was around 18/19, I think ADHD is just blabla for energetic kids, and a great way for shrinks to get phat bonusses from the pharmaceutic industry.

[English assassin]

No disrespect to any of the posters above but I'm still not buying it.

Of course, the symptoms that can be used to support a diagnosis of AD/HD exist. But there are at least two questions unanswered in my mind. First, do they have one underlying cause, and second, aren't we just medicalising part of the spectrum of normal human behaviour?

Without the first, putting a label on symptoms is meaningless. It wouldn't be useful to have something called "painful tummy syndrome", if you didn't know whether to cut the patient open and whip out his appendix or send him home with some antacids.

As for the second, well, that is more subjective. But especially in children aren't we forgetting that running about, and not wanting to concentrate in school, are basically normal? my three year old won't sit down and do a jigsaw. I don't think he's got Jigsaw Disfunction Syndrome, I think he has (quite rightly) decided jigsaws are boring.

The sad fact is drug companies are primarily interested in making money. If they can do that by making a drug that cures a dangerous disease, then, sure, they will. They aren't actively evil. But its easier to make money with drugs that only control, rather than cure, chronic "diseases" in wealthy populations. And when the "disease" covers most of the population, they are quids in.

Broadening the debate slightly, is there a moral hazard to taking mild mood altering drugs? Obviously, if someone is, say, clinically depressed, they need treatment. To say otherwise is to repeat the mistakes of anti-psychiatry. But occasionally being a bit down, or irrationally up, is part or the normal human condition. Shouldn't we experience it? What is life going to be like when we are always even tempered, never too hot, never too cold, never worked to exhaustion, and so on. Where is the challenge? Where, really, is the point?

Francis Fukuyama has some good chapters on all of this in "Our Posthuman Future".

[doc_bean]

Now I sometimes have to learn a few hours on just a simple and small word list.

Just sometimes ? That's normal, I could never focus on those...

[QUOTE]Plus the fact that not a long time ago I had never learned my classes (they say you have to learn everyday 2 hours a day) but I never did till about this year. Never had bad grades touhg, I got alot of A's a few B's and once in a while a C (usually for French or when I was caught looking to someone else exam,...).

If you pass without studying you don't need to study, losing attention because something is just plain boring is perfectly normal. Learning something you already know is boring. Using your criteria here pretty much every uni student I know has (had) ADHD.


Yes I have to learn a lot longer sometimes I have to learn so much on such a small thing that when I'm finished I've got to go to sleep.

Happens to me too, learning can take a lot out of you, I once lost 5kg in two weeks during an exam period, eating normally (slightly more fastfood than normal). Feeling tired and needing sleep is perfectly normal.



A somewhat bigger problem is that I make a lot of faults in exams or exercises for wich you need to concentrate. How many time did I make stupid mistakes wich lowered my point with 20% or more? (math for example - changes into + or miscounting,...)

I had big problems with '+' and '-' too, I lost three points on an exam for that once :embarassed:
Once again, pretty normal, it has improved for me somewhat over the years. It's considered a common mistake for engineering students, and we're suppsoed to be math-heads. Do not worry.



or sometimes I just was distracted somuch I can't finish my test.

Err..you forget you're doing a test or something ?


And ofcourse I forget about anything I can forget.

I forget anything that doesn't interest me, unfortunatly, that includes most people (faces and names) and where I put my keys...


SO I think you can say it's a disorder but pills on regumr base? no way.

If you've got ADHD, then based on your post, so do I.

[Ludens]

Of course, the symptoms that can be used to support a diagnosis of AD/HD exist. But there are at least two questions unanswered in my mind. First, do they have one underlying cause, and second, aren't we just medicalising part of the spectrum of normal human behaviour?
The first question cannot be answered for the majority of psychiatric disorders. Are you saying that they are all meaningless? The second question is valid however, and I agree in sofar that a lot of what is called ADHD is just childish excitability. But in my post above I described how ADHD (specifically the AD part) can make life very difficult. In such a case, it is not normal behaviour that is being medicalized.


The sad fact is drug companies are primarily interested in making money. If they can do that by making a drug that cures a dangerous disease, then, sure, they will. They aren't actively evil. But its easier to make money with drugs that only control, rather than cure, chronic "diseases" in wealthy populations. And when the "disease" covers most of the population, they are quids in.
Quite right, but if there wasn't a demand for these pills the companies would never produce them. I really doubt Novartis developed Ritalin with the intention of giving parents an easy solution for their child's dislike of school. It is ignorance and pride, not commercialism, that drives these excesses.

As for your final question: yes, you are right in saying that these feelings are part of life. But when do you call an emotion excessive?
:bow:

[English assassin]

The first question cannot be answered for the majority of psychiatric disorders. Are you saying that they are all meaningless?

Well, I do have a reductionist prejudice I admit. My degree was in biochemistry and a number of relatives work in Parkinsons research and I suspect that, emotionally, I do think that if you can't point to the molecules "causing" the disease its not a real disease.

Which, rationally, I acknowledge is not the case. Parkinson's itself being a counterexample, at least in the early years after its first description.

But happily that is not at issue here, because I am mainly concerned with the prescription of ritalin. Now that is a fairly well characterised drug with a specific mode of action, vis reducing the re-absorbtion of dopamine, and to prescribe it for ADHD the doctor is necessarily saying that a signficant cause of ADHD symptoms is caused by dysfunctional levels of dopamine (or its agonists). (Or in any case that those symptoms can be ameliorated in this way)

So that's quite a specific claim, not only that there are a body of symptoms commonly encountered together that we label ADHD, (and that's is open to some question) but also that those symptoms have an underlying organic cause.

Which I doubt.

[Kanamori]

Err..you forget you're doing a test or something ?

You have absolutely no idea what it is like. To get distracted beyond your own ability, constantly trying to put yourself back on course, and the little things keeping pulling you back away. The kid next to you playing w/ his pencil, the hum of the air conditioning, anything and everthing. The most frustrating part about it is not being able to control what you focus on. When you do not have to do school work, or any other thing related to human survival (beside eating), this is fun and free to 'give in to'. While you have work you want to do, it is horrible.


First, do they have one underlying cause, and second, aren't we just medicalising part of the spectrum of normal human behaviour?

Studies have shown that it is linked strongly to genetics. No, it is not normal to be absolutely driven mad by the ittle things around you that everyone else ignores. It is a surprise that I have not often erupted in class screaming in frustration.

[doc_bean]

You have absolutely no idea what it is like. To get distracted beyond your own ability, constantly trying to put yourself back on course, and the little things keeping pulling you back away. The kid next to you playing w/ his pencil, the hum of the air conditioning, anything and everthing. The most frustrating part about it is not being able to control what you focus on.

I have this often when I have to study, as do a lot of people I know. I do get 'tunnel vision' when doing an exam and can focus for a few hours straight without noticing anything that happens around me. After that I'm exhausted for the rest of the day though.

But you're right of course, i don't know what it's like to be you or anyone else, neither do you know what it's like to be me. I'm just trying to understand here.

[Ludens]

But happily that is not at issue here, because I am mainly concerned with the prescription of ritalin. Now that is a fairly well characterised drug with a specific mode of action, vis reducing the re-absorbtion of dopamine, and to prescribe it for ADHD the doctor is necessarily saying that a signficant cause of ADHD symptoms is caused by dysfunctional levels of dopamine (or its agonists). (Or in any case that those symptoms can be ameliorated in this way)

So that's quite a specific claim, not only that there are a body of symptoms commonly encountered together that we label ADHD, (and that's is open to some question) but also that those symptoms have an underlying organic cause.

Which I doubt.
We don't know the exact molecules behind clinical depression either, but that stops nobody from proscribing medicines that block monoamine (mostly serotonin) reuptake against it. Yet, it is quite debatable whether serotonin is responsible for depression, or even that depression has an underlying organic cause. I could make the same claim for the antipsychotics used against schizophrenia.

For me there is no question about it: ADHD does exist. Yet, from the sale of Ritalin I would think that it is, more often than not, diagnosed when it isn't there. I am not talking about childish excitability, I am talking about grown adults hardly able to do their own household chores because they have to act on each impulse.

[John86]

AD/HD is there, but not to the extent that society tells us. Apparantly, becasue I am not interested in chemistry, and do not pay attention half the class, I have AD/HD, and should be on drugs. What I have is not AD/HD, its simply bordom and lack of interest.

[John86]

Studies have shown that it is linked strongly to genetics. No, it is not normal to be absolutely driven mad by the ittle things around you that everyone else ignores. It is a surprise that I have not often erupted in class screaming in frustration.

What you explain sounds a bit like OCD, which I have quite a bad case of. If the smallest thing is out of place, such as a pencil placed on a tilt, I cannot concentrate at all until the pencil is straight.

[Devastatin Dave]

What's the topic again? Oh yes, AD/HD... Well like I said, i like Boobies and i still can't find my car keys. Those meds are starting to work. What a minute, this isn't myspace.com!!! Oh well, time to go... wait, what was I going to do. Oh sweet, I just found my keys!!!

[Kanamori]

I have to wonder why I haven't put you on ignore before. It's not as if anything useful or anything that amounted to an argument is ever posted by you. All you know how to do is insult, and you are the pudgy moron that looks like he came from a family of inbreds.

[naut]

As some of you have said, physicians out there are just looking to make money. The same way Orthadontists claim the majority of people need braces, even though they may not, in an attempt to rake in the riches.

I'm not doubting the fact that it is a real disorder, I know a couple of guys with it ... and sh** do they have it. But it does not exist at the broad level that physicians claim it is at.

[Devastatin Dave]

I have to wonder why I haven't put you on ignore before. It's not as if anything useful or anything that amounted to an argument is ever posted by you. All you know how to do is insult, and you are the pudgy moron that looks like he came from a family of inbreds.
Thanks, sounds like you have sand in your vagina.

[A.Saturnus]

Is your problem with the medication, or the doctor? My guess is the medication, but why? The fact that it is a stimulant? I doubt it could be good for the heart to take day in and day out, and really I'm not found of it at all. Is it abnormal for stimulants like mehylphenidate to calm down people? Studies have shown that medication is more effective than behavorial treatment.

My problem is with the doctor. A physician doesn't have the education necessary to apply a diagnosis like ADHD. He can probably recognize a schizophrenic as well as a psychologist (though I have doubts about that) but he can't tell whether someone's attention is pathological or not. Of course, psychologists can make mistakes with that quite easily too (especially where financial interests are involved) but you don't go to a veterinarian either when you need your teeth fixed.


Of course, the symptoms that can be used to support a diagnosis of AD/HD exist. But there are at least two questions unanswered in my mind. First, do they have one underlying cause, and second, aren't we just medicalising part of the spectrum of normal human behaviour?

As Ludens already said, it is normal for psychopathology that we don't know whether the symptoms have a common cause. We would be very happy if we had a ethiological approach in psychopathology but we have to live with what we have and we simply don't know enough for that. But if someone harms himself because the heating told him to, then it's not sensible to say "sorry, we can't help you because the cause of schizophrenia isn't known yet". We treat him the best we can. Psychotherapy is based on the - somewhat naive - assumption that symptoms that appear together will also disappear together when we find the right therapy (which is mostly found empirically).
The question whether something is normal human behavior or not is related to that. As I mentioned in several threads about forms of sexuality, there is no clear-cut objective criterium that seperates normal from diseased in psychology. We have to decide for ourselves. In the case of ADHD we can connect it to distress. If the attention problems of a child are so serious that he or she is compromized in normal social functioning then something has to be done about that. You can say that ADHD doesn't exist and claim that the child is instead "dumb", "energetic" or "just a child", but none of them are actually a solution to the problem, are they?
Of course, we have to agree first that there is a problem. If you say that children with severe attention deficits will be fine and I can't convince you that we should call it "ADHD". But if we agree that there's a problem we should talk about a solution and not in the first place the ethiology of the problem (although knowing that would of course help). Research has shown that children with attention disorders can be helped a lot (and to me surprisingly much more than with psychotherapy) with medication. Of course, a lot of children that are diagnosed ADHD would probably be better off if the attention problems of the parents were fixed than with medication, but that doesn't mean that the diagnosis itself doesn't make sense.

[SomeNick]

Recently a woman used fish oil to treat her daughter's 'disorder' and now the Australian government is looking into using it instead of 'medication' as it worked wonders with her behavioural problems. This has been known for years but...

There are so many preservatives with side effects that it's not surprising children suffer from these things. So, if it's chemical and therefore drug related, it's not much of a disorder. Just a label to make drug companies and their lackeys rich. 'Natural Flavours' is just a label too. Read the back of the product to be certain.

[A.Saturnus]

So, if it's chemical and therefore drug related, it's not much of a disorder.

I don't quite understand that one. What would it be if it is not chemical, mechanical?

[Byzantine Prince]

He probably means that the preservatives put in food are not natural occuring chemicals in the human body so he labels it 'chemical' as in external.

[Moros]

Now I sometimes have to learn a few hours on just a simple and small word list.

Just sometimes ? That's normal, I could never focus on those...


Well sometimes is a big understatement.



If you pass without studying you don't need to study, losing attention because something is just plain boring is perfectly normal. Learning something you already know is boring. Using your criteria here pretty much every uni student I know has (had) ADHD.

Strange it happens with french too and I can barely write a setence without 20 errors in it (grammar/spelling/words....)



Happens to me too, learning can take a lot out of you, I once lost 5kg in two weeks during an exam period, eating normally (slightly more fastfood than normal). Feeling tired and needing sleep is perfectly normal.

Since you were 8 years old?



I had big problems with '+' and '-' too, I lost three points on an exam for that once :embarassed:
Once again, pretty normal, it has improved for me somewhat over the years. It's considered a common mistake for engineering students, and we're suppsoed to be math-heads. Do not worry.

3 points/once vs 20%/daily
...



Err..you forget you're doing a test or something ?
well, I would call it that but it isn't far from it. Even now (while typing) I've been doing things and been thinking about the wierdest things. It wouldn't surprise me if this post alone is going to take 20 minutes.

edit:

You have absolutely no idea what it is like. To get distracted beyond your own ability, constantly trying to put yourself back on course, and the little things keeping pulling you back away. The kid next to you playing w/ his pencil, the hum of the air conditioning, anything and everthing. The most frustrating part about it is not being able to control what you focus on. When you do not have to do school work, or any other thing related to human survival (beside eating), this is fun and free to 'give in to'. While you have work you want to do, it is horrible.

And it far worse then that. And not only when doing your homework. It's easier for me to stay awake whole night then falling a sleep. I think and do the strangest things when trying to get to sleep. It is hard to not think and do something. The day that I can think about nothing or even just one thing I'll eat my shoes (except if they give me some drug or something.) Can you believe I was thinking about black holes right now and about a story I recently heard. Damn now I'm even making strange noises with my fingers (you know slapping them against you cheeks).


I forget anything that doesn't interest me, unfortunatly, that includes most people (faces and names) and where I put my keys...

I forget a lot, not just stuff that I don't care about. I forget about anything I can.



If you've got ADHD, then based on your post, so do I.
Ofcourse I don't know you but I guess you don't.

[Redleg]

Is AD/HD a disorder - yes it is.

Is AD/HD a disorder that is over diagnosed and over-treated with medication. The answer is the same - a resounding yes.

[doc_bean]

Quote:
Happens to me too, learning can take a lot out of you, I once lost 5kg in two weeks during an exam period, eating normally (slightly more fastfood than normal). Feeling tired and needing sleep is perfectly normal.


Since you were 8 years old?

I sleep 9-10h a day normally, I still feel tired from time to time.


Quote:
I had big problems with '+' and '-' too, I lost three points on an exam for that once
Once again, pretty normal, it has improved for me somewhat over the years. It's considered a common mistake for engineering students, and we're suppsoed to be math-heads. Do not worry.

3 points/once vs 20%/daily
...


Well, we don't have that many tests anymore :2thumbsup:
I've rarely had a math test where i didn't make a mistake like that.




Quote:
If you've got ADHD, then based on your post, so do I.

Ofcourse I don't know you but I guess you don't.

Well I don't know you, you don't know me, hard to diagnoses people that way, even if we would be doctors. I'm pretty sure I don't have ADHD, you might have, I don't know.

Just out of curiosity, can you keep concentrate for a relatively long time (say 20 minutes) when something interests you ? Like a good book or a movie or a game ?

[Moros]

rarely, but sometimes it does happen but when it does people can stand in fornt of me screaming an I wouldn't notice but that's verry rare. (when I was little and played the gameboy it happened a few times). But usually no, for example during a Rtw battle I think "what the ****** was I doing again...hmmm...oh yeah I was flacking that un...owh my cavalry is routing? oop I forget to pull them back.

But I usually still beat the AI ~:dizzy: