German brothel ad angers Muslims [Archive]

rory_20_uk

04-26-2006, 08:19

Some people get so touchy!

A Cologne brothel touting for clients with a World Cup-themed banner has blacked out the flags of Iran and Saudi Arabia after threats from Muslims.

The giant banner on a high-rise building shows a semi-naked woman and the flags of the 32 countries in the World Cup, which kicks off in June.

The Pascha brothel's owner, Armin Lobscheid, said a group of Muslims had threatened violence over the advert.

He said they had accused the brothel of insulting Islam by using the flags.

First there were telephone threats of violence, then about 30 hooded protesters armed with knives and sticks turned up outside Pascha on Friday, the Koelner Stadt-Anzeiger newspaper reported.

"The situation was explosive," Mr Lobscheid told the paper.

"Some of the people compared our ad to the Danish Mohammed cartoons," he said, referring to cartoons which sparked violent protests in several Muslim countries in February.

The Tunisian flag - bearing the Muslim crescent symbol - remains on the ad, however.

'Overlooked'

The slogan on the ad reads: "The world is a guest of female friends" - a variant of the official World Cup slogan: "The world is a guest of friends".

Mr Lobscheid said the banner had been commissioned in a normal business deal and "we certainly didn't intend to insult anyone".

He said the significance of the flags' symbols had been overlooked.

Prostitution is legal in Germany, where the authorities are preparing for a possible boom in the sex trade during the World Cup.

Can't these people get it into their thick skulls that Europe does things one way, and the Middle East another? I hope he keeps that banner rather than pandering to extremist immigrants.

~:smoking:

Ser Clegane

04-26-2006, 08:20

I hope he keeps that banner rather than pandering to extremist immigrants.

~:smoking:

As the article mentioned - he already decided to black out some flags.

Papewaio

04-26-2006, 09:17

Unfortunately the flags have religious writing on them. Which makes the flags defacto religious icons.

I'm not sure if Islam even allows the veneration of religious icons? If not then venerating these flags would be idoltary... which would make this entire episode ironic.

At a previous world cup McDonald's got in similar trouble by putting the flags on the burger wrappers.

English assassin

04-26-2006, 09:33

Legalised brothels getting ready for the world cup...?

I guess this finally settles the old which is better, the EU or the USA argument...

(I hear German beer is also quite acceptable)

Husar

04-26-2006, 12:10

Maybe I should ask my dad to go there when we drive home on the weekend, I may get a pic or at least an impression(of the flag of course:sweatdrop: )
On ther other hand, driving around Cologne on a weekend is a pretty bad idea, because the streets are pretty full. I just wonder why muslim men have a big problem with brothels seeing how many of them treat their women.

lancelot

04-26-2006, 12:33

The Pascha brothel's owner, Armin Lobscheid, said a group of Muslims had threatened violence over the advert.

He said they had accused the brothel of insulting Islam by using the flags.

First there were telephone threats of violence, then about 30 hooded protesters armed with knives and sticks turned up outside Pascha on Friday, the Koelner Stadt-Anzeiger newspaper reported.

Muslims..violence...surely not... ~:rolleyes:

This kinda stuff really makes me sick...Its bad enough that religion is the last organised and legitimate form of intolerence and bigotry on the planet...

...the sheer arrogance of it....'we dont like it, you all have to think like us'...arrrgghh.

Im sorry... but if your faith is that strong, why would you live in a nation that has legalised prostitution in the first place? Wouldnt you be aching to get back to a nice muslim nation where all your particular grievances are indulged by the state?

Navaros

04-26-2006, 13:47

Devastatin Dave

04-26-2006, 13:51

Ser Clegane

04-26-2006, 13:55

Muslims seem to get angered over everything except suicide bombings, beheadings, honor killings of women, and murdering of all deemed "infidels". Maybe they'll have some more peaceful riots over this as well. Praise Allah....:juggle2:

Actually there were more muslims in Germany protesting the things you mention than the 30(!) protesters in this case.

Devastatin Dave

04-26-2006, 14:08

Actually there were more muslims in Germany protesting the things you mention than the 30(!) protesters in this case.
And there were millions more protesting silly cartoons and having riots causing millions in damage and killing hundreds. But keep trying to justify the so called outrage and excusing the violent behavior of the "extremists", if it helps you ignore the problem and makes you feel warm inside. :laugh4:
Oh, you might want to close this thread or give me a warning for being right. It might be easier for you.

Ser Clegane

04-26-2006, 14:10

Oh, you might want to close this thread or give me a warning for being right. It might be easier for you.

:rolleyes:

(apparently somebody did not get his hug this morning)

Joker85

04-26-2006, 14:26

Thank God for the right to bear arms.

muhammed shows up in front of my shop with a knife telling me what I can and can't put up in my own damn country he'll be asked once to leave and if he doesn't then he'll be limping for the rest of his life.

LeftEyeNine

04-26-2006, 14:59

Keyboard bullies on march..

rory_20_uk

04-26-2006, 15:22

Complaining about the knife wielding bullies on march...

~:smoking:

Crazed Rabbit

04-26-2006, 15:32

The Muslims have a good point and there is no reason why they should tolerate having immoral crap like that associated with their flags. Good for them for standing up for their beliefs, as can be expected.

People aren't standing up for anything when they cover their faces like cowards, group up, and threaten violence.

Crazed Rabbit

Ser Clegane

04-26-2006, 15:37

People aren't standing up for anything when they cover their faces like cowards, group up, and threaten violence.

Crazed Rabbit

Very good point - if you have a problem with the flags, go on the street before the brothel with a banner and protest - peacefully.

These particular guys should be treated like anybody else who goes around and threatens other people with a knife (and I am pretty sure that they will be if they are caught)

lancelot

04-26-2006, 15:55

People aren't standing up for anything when they cover their faces like cowards, group up, and threaten violence.

Crazed Rabbit

Well said.

These particular guys should be treated like anybody else who goes around and threatens other people with a knife (and I am pretty sure that they will be if they are caught)

If it is anything like the UK, I doubt it...considering during the cartoon protests...a guy handing out copies of said cartoon was taken away by the police while the protesters held their boards high, proudly advocating the 'beheading of those who insult islam' and other such plesantries...

Devastatin Dave

04-26-2006, 16:24

:rolleyes:

(apparently somebody did not get his hug this morning)
Well Big Boy, you can come give me a hug, only problem it might offend the "extremists" and cause a riot...er... i mean demostraton.:laugh4:

Ser Clegane

04-26-2006, 16:27

only problem it might offend the "extremists" and cause a riot...er... i mean demostraton.:laugh4:

Why? Are you living next to "Reverend" Phelps? ~;)

Devastatin Dave

04-26-2006, 16:35

Why? Are you living next to "Reverend" Phelps? ~;)
Does that mean I don't get a hug?:knuddel:

Ser Clegane

04-26-2006, 16:39

Does that mean I don't get a hug?:knuddel:
Only if Phelps isn't watching us :hide:

Devastatin Dave

04-26-2006, 16:48

Why? Are you living next to "Reverend" Phelps? ~;)
Does that mean I don't get a hug? from what I understand he likes to "watch!!!!:knuddel:

Ser Clegane

04-26-2006, 16:53

Does that mean I don't get a hug?

OK :knuddel: (but no French kissing, I'm married)

uhm ... can I warn myself for spamming? :thinking:

Devastatin Dave

04-26-2006, 17:18

OK :knuddel: (but no French kissing, I'm married)

uhm ... can I warn myself for spamming? :thinking:
I can send a PM to Soly if you'd like.
post count +1

Back to the subject since Ser is being a spammer!!!!
This goes to the fundamental differences between Western secular society and the mindset of Muslims. I don't believe its possible for the two ideals to coexist. Sorry, it just isn't working no matter how people try to paint it as tolerance.

English assassin

04-26-2006, 17:44

Ianofsmeg16

04-26-2006, 17:48

the Muslims are angry?

Shocking

Devastatin Dave

04-26-2006, 17:56

Surely it would be "freedom" kissing rather than French kissing with DD anyway?

err, and in an attempt to pretend this post isn't spam, how come religiously intolerant muslims are incompatible with western society, and religiously intolerant christians are not?
Well maybe because the "religiously intolerant christians" aren't going around burning and killing when they see a billboard or a cartoon that mocks their faith. They tend to blend in a little better in a Western Secular society than our religion of peace cousins. But that would be common sense which is not allowed when discussing these politically correct circumstances.

Navaros

04-26-2006, 18:04

Well maybe because the "religiously intolerant christians" aren't going around burning and killing when they see a billboard or a cartoon that mocks their faith. They tend to blend in a little better in a Western Secular society than our religion of peace cousins. But that would be common sense which is not allowed when discussing these politically correct circumstances.

In other words, most self-proclaimed Christians these days have let the evils of "Western Secular society" defile them and their religion, instead of being bold as Jesus demanded. They have let "popular opinion" and their pathetic fear of "not offending the majority secularists" dull the fire in their hearts, suppress their faith, will, and moral duty to stand up against atrocities.

Muslims on the other hand, will never roll over like that. Nor should they.

Indeed there is no and never will be compatibility between Western societies that glorify and perpetuate mass murdering of babies, "homosexuality", and all other manner of atrocity; and Muslim societies that have morals and principles that will not be dulled by any attempted shout-downs from an evil secular majority.

Ser Clegane

04-26-2006, 18:22

I
Indeed there is no and never will be compatibility between Western societies that glorify and perpetuate mass murdering of babies, "homosexuality", and all other manner of atrocity; and Muslim societies that have morals and principles that will not be dulled by any attempted shout-downs from an evil secular majority.

Navaros, as my text-knowledge regarding the Bible is admittedly somewhat hazy - could you please refer me/us to the parts of the New Testament that deal with abortion and homosexuality, and - if it isnt't too much work and for the sake of this specific thread - perhaps also to the texts that recommend to violently threat people who act "immorally"?

Avicenna

04-26-2006, 18:40

Muslims..violence...surely not... ~:rolleyes:

This kinda stuff really makes me sick...Its bad enough that religion is the last organised and legitimate form of intolerence and bigotry on the planet...

...the sheer arrogance of it....'we dont like it, you all have to think like us'...arrrgghh.

Im sorry... but if your faith is that strong, why would you live in a nation that has legalised prostitution in the first place? Wouldnt you be aching to get back to a nice muslim nation where all your particular grievances are indulged by the state?

You see, the Muslims can get away with this. Why?
1) it would cost a lot in both money and lives to get them settled
2) they have a lot of precious oil where they live and could simply keep it themselves
3) they could blow up the oil if you invade them.
You see?

Redleg

04-26-2006, 19:01

Navaros, as my text-knowledge regarding the Bible is admittedly somewhat hazy - could you please refer me/us to the parts of the New Testament that deal with abortion and homosexuality, and - if it isnt't too much work and for the sake of this specific thread - perhaps also to the texts that recommend to violently threat people who act "immorally"?

I would like Navaros to quote the passages in the New Testiment where Jesus stated that one must use violence against non-believers in him.

Joker85

04-26-2006, 19:09

I think it is interesting to view the difference in Muslim assimilation in the US and in Europe. For some reason American muslims seem more moderate. The crap that has gone on in France recently with the riots and when some muslims kidnapped a jew and tortured and set him on fire, and really across Europe with the cartoons, and now this in the UK is unheard of here. Maybe the type of Muslim who would pack up and go all the way across the Atlantic may inherently be more geared to assimilation, whereas it's not as hard to immigrate into western Europe and form up in communities of like minded individuals. I don't know.

I guess we're kind of lucky that our immigrants causing problems are just Mexicans who want to be legalized, whereas Europe's immigrant problems are jihadis who demand that Europe adopt Sharia or they'll riot and act the fool till they get it... or behead you.:no:

Louis VI the Fat

04-26-2006, 20:30

The US cherry-picked it's muslim immigrants. Western Europe, not accustomed to large-scale immigration, did not, or hardly, aply standards towards immigrants. I.e. we imported the illiterate, the backward, often the ones who could not make it in their country of origin and therefore left.

The US got the Muslim physicians, rocket scientists, post-graduate students. We should not forget that there are a great many highly educated, reasonable Muslims too, both in the west and in the Muslim world.

Crazed Rabbit

04-26-2006, 20:37

Ah, controlled immigration. Isn't it great?

*Hint hint, Bush, you cretin*

In other words, most self-proclaimed Christians these days have let the evils of "Western Secular society" defile them and their religion, instead of being bold as Jesus demanded. They have let "popular opinion" and their pathetic fear of "not offending the majority secularists" dull the fire in their hearts, suppress their faith, will, and moral duty to stand up against atrocities.

Oh, I get it! I'll go put on a ski mask and take my knife and threaten everyone wearing a 'gay? fine by me' t-shirt today. I'm sure that's what Jesus would have wanted.

Crazed Rabbit

Devastatin Dave

04-26-2006, 20:57

The US cherry-picked it's muslim immigrants.
LOL, I'm not calling you uninformed or anything but don't let reality get in the way of your opinion.:dizzy2:

Reenk Roink

04-26-2006, 20:59

Muslims seem to get angered over everything except suicide bombings, beheadings, honor killings of women, and murdering of all deemed "infidels". Maybe they'll have some more peaceful riots over this as well. Praise Allah....:juggle2:

Well, times are a-changing:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060425/ap_on_re_mi_ea/egypt_attacks_arabs_2;_ylt=Au1Z5V6ax8pZLlIUXb2F2_bFCBEB;_ylu=X3oDMTBiMW04NW9mBHNlYwMlJVRPUCUl

Joker85

04-26-2006, 21:05

Well, times are a-changing:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060425/ap_on_re_mi_ea/egypt_attacks_arabs_2;_ylt=Au1Z5V6ax8pZLlIUXb2F2_bFCBEB;_ylu=X3oDMTBiMW04NW9mBHNlYwMlJVRPUCUl

Notice he said "all those deemed infidels". It's not suprising they are upset when the terrorists kill their fellow muslims/arabs(oddly enough except in Iraq).

Reenk Roink

04-26-2006, 21:08

Notice he said "all those deemed infidels". It's not suprising they are upset when the terrorists kill their fellow muslims/arabs(oddly enough except in Iraq).

Eh, I saw thousands of statements after 9-11 from everyone from the layman to high ranking clerics. I saw candle light vigils being held in Palastine after 7/7. If you want more incidents, go google it... www.google.com

Besides, the outrage here at the tens of thousands of civilians killed in Iraq and Afghanistan was really nowhere to be found either...

Joker85

04-26-2006, 21:13

Eh, I saw thousands of statements after 9-11 from everyone from the layman to high ranking clerics. I saw candle light vigils being held in Palastine after 7/7. If you want more incidents, go google it... www.google.com

Besides, the outrage here at the tens of thousands of civilians killed in Iraq and Afghanistan was really nowhere to be found either...

I'm glad they were lighting candles after 7/7 in the palestinian territories, maybe the fact that the entire world saw them cheering and passing out candy on 9/11 made them realize it's not a good idea to publicly celebrate death of the "infidels" if they want to keep playing the victom while they are blowing themselves up in cafes and pizza shops.

As to your second point, I agree. We should be more outrated when terrorists continually blow up mosques, markets, and busses in a deliberate attempt to destabalize a nation and ignite a civil war that would lead to the deaths of many thousands more innocents. We should also be more outrated when innocents are targeted for beheading and assination for going to work, school, or walking down the street. I agree, there should be a lot more outrage at that. Instead the outrage is all focused on the fact that a few morons made a few pows make naked pyramids and stand on chairs looking stupid. Nice to see priorities are right.

Reenk Roink

04-26-2006, 21:24

I'm glad they were lighting candles after 7/7 in the palestinian territories, maybe the fact that the entire world saw them cheering and passing out candy on 9/11 made them realize it's not a good idea to publicly celebrate death of the "infidels" if they want to keep playing the victom while they are blowing themselves up in cafes and pizza shops.

No no no no no sir, do not just stop at that. Go on further about the incident in a South American nightclub, only days after 9-11. A musician broke into "America the beautiful" and was jeered off stage with cries of "Osama! Osama!"... Tells ya something, eh?

As to your second point, I agree. We should be more outrated when terrorists continually blow up mosques, markets, and busses in a deliberate attempt to destabalize a nation and ignite a civil war that would lead to the deaths of many thousands more innocents. We should also be more outrated when innocents are targeted for beheading and assination for going to work, school, or walking down the street. I agree, there should be a lot more outrage at that. Instead the outrage is all focused on the fact that a few morons made a few pows make naked pyramids and stand on chairs looking stupid. Nice to see priorities are right.

Again, Joker85, don't just pin my comment on the insurgency. We all know that the insurgents weren't the ones who dropped large bombs on Baghdad in the war. Infact, the insurgency is only fairly recent. I guess we want the entire Muslim world to be pissed when something happens to us, but we also seem to like to ignore or dismiss the fact that many do. We also seem not to care when our own troops kill their people... And we speak of double standards?

Scurvy

04-26-2006, 21:35

I'm glad they were lighting candles after 7/7 in the palestinian territories, maybe the fact that the entire world saw them cheering and passing out candy on 9/11 made them realize it's not a good idea to publicly celebrate death of the "infidels" if they want to keep playing the victom while they are blowing themselves up in cafes and pizza shops.

As to your second point, I agree. We should be more outrated when terrorists continually blow up mosques, markets, and busses in a deliberate attempt to destabalize a nation and ignite a civil war that would lead to the deaths of many thousands more innocents. We should also be more outrated when innocents are targeted for beheading and assination for going to work, school, or walking down the street. I agree, there should be a lot more outrage at that. Instead the outrage is all focused on the fact that a few morons made a few pows make naked pyramids and stand on chairs looking stupid. Nice to see priorities are right.

one problem is that the muslims you see in palestine hardly represent the overall majority, and for the palestiians america is seen as a "bad place" etc. so of course some wold celebrate...
the reason that there is so much outrage about the prison photos is that america is supposed to be more civilized etc. but is hardly setting an example to the muslim fanatics on how they should behave,

Joker85

04-26-2006, 21:39

No no no no no sir, do not just stop at that. Go on further about the incident in a South American nightclub, only days after 9-11. A musician broke into "America the beautiful" and was jeered off stage with cries of "Osama! Osama!"... Tells ya something, eh?

Again, Joker, don't just pin my comment on the insurgency. We all know that the insurgents weren't the ones who dropped large bombs on Baghdad in the war. Infact, the insurgency is only fairly recent. I guess we want the entire Muslim world to be pissed when something happens to us, but we also seem to like to ignore or dismiss the fact that many do. We also seem not to care when our own troops kill their people... And we speak of double standards?

Allow me to address your second point first. I will try to be brief as I don't want this to get sidetracked into an Iraq debate, it will go on for 10 more pages and the initial point of this thread will be lost.

I believe your relativism towards accidental civilian casualties when an extreme attempt to avoid them, even to the point of puting your own soldiers in danger, has been made, is not the same as specifically targeting civilian institutions including mosques in a deliberate attempt to spark a civil war and cause chaos and suffering amongst a civilian population.

Civilian casualties are a part of every war, it is horrible. But I find the view of "look how many civilians died to our bombs that's the same as them cutting off heads on purpose" to be rather simplistic.

I don't know if you are an American, but if you are, have you heard of the felony murder rule? I believe it to mean that if I go rob a bank, and get in a shootout with the cops, and during the course of that shootout a cop's stray bullet misses me and kills a bystander, I can be charged with murder. According to you there is no difference between what the cop did in that situation, and if I decided to go shoot every hostage in the bank in an attempt to create a diversion.

Many times our soldiers have been fired upon by an enemy who intentionally uses mosques, and even civilians themselves as shields knowing we try everything we can to not kill them. Furthermore, in the runup to the war Saddam himself was placing military targets amongst the populated areas diliberately so that there would be a steady stream of video and picture of civilian casualties.

It is simply an impossibility to fight a war without unintentional civilian casualties. However, it is possible to fight one without intentional ones.

Now, I'm sure you'll say something like "well we shouldnt' have been there in the first place", but an opinion on that, either way, does not effect what we are talking about. Which is your implication that there is somehow a double standard because we do not view unintentional, unavoidable, civilian casualties in the same light as we do attacks specifically targeted to enduce terror, pain, and death upon a civilian populace for political gains.

As to your first point, it tells me there are a few morons in Argentina. If it was a wide spread, continuing pattern among Argentines however, it would tell me a lot about the people of Argentina. Thankfully it was not.

Sorry, it wasn't brief after all. :(

Reenk Roink

04-26-2006, 22:07

Allow me to address your second point first. I will try to be brief as I don't want this to get sidetracked into an Iraq debate, it will go on for 10 more pages and the initial point of this thread will be lost.

I believe your relativism towards accidental civilian casualties when an extreme attempt to avoid them, even to the point of puting your own soldiers in danger, has been made, is not the same as specifically targeting civilian institutions including mosques in a deliberate attempt to spark a civil war and cause chaos and suffering amongst a civilian population.

Civilian casualties are a part of every war, it is horrible. But I find the view of "look how many civilians died to our bombs that's the same as them cutting off heads on purpose" to be rather simplistic.

I don't know if you are an American, but if you are, have you heard of the felony murder rule? I believe it to mean that if I go rob a bank, and get in a shootout with the cops, and during the course of that shootout a cop's stray bullet misses me and kills a bystander, I can be charged with murder. According to you there is no difference between what the cop did in that situation, and if I decided to go shoot every hostage in the bank in an attempt to create a diversion.

Many times our soldiers have been fired upon by an enemy who intentionally uses mosques, and even civilians themselves as shields knowing we try everything we can to not kill them. Furthermore, in the runup to the war Saddam himself was placing military targets amongst the populated areas diliberately so that there would be a steady stream of video and picture of civilian casualties.

It is simply an impossibility to fight a war without unintentional civilian casualties. However, it is possible to fight one without intentional ones.

Now, I'm sure you'll say something like "well we shouldnt' have been there in the first place", but an opinion on that, either way, does not effect what we are talking about. Which is your implication that there is somehow a double standard because we do not view unintentional, unavoidable, civilian casualties in the same light as we do attacks specifically targeted to enduce terror, pain, and death upon a civilian populace for political gains.

As to your first point, it tells me there are a few morons in Argentina. If it was a wide spread, continuing pattern among Argentines however, it would tell me a lot about the people of Argentina. Thankfully it was not.

Sorry, it wasn't brief after all. :(

Now let me give you my perspective.

Let's start with an analogy. When there is a hostage situation (at least here in America) What happens? Do the police go and bomb the **** out of the building the hostages are in just because the hostage taker is there too? No. They do everything possible to save the hostages. Even the extremely well trained snipers are not supposed to shoot until they get a perfectly clear shot and are without a doubt sure that the hostages won't get hurt.

So why do we show laxity in war? You say that there is an "extreme attempt to avoid them." I disagree. If an army is going to be using weapons that have a blast radius, then tell me why these weapons are allowed to be used in civilian areas? They should simply be confined to strict battlefield use, where there are 0 civilians.

A freak accident where a civilian happened to enter a battlefield just at the moment where bombing raids were going on is different from going into civilian territory and bombing it to dust.

The enemy hides in the city? Well go in after them with troops. But oh yeah, it's just easier to bomb the **** out of them. After all, that is the purpose of 'shock and awe' campaigns: to terrify the enemy, to destroy as much as possible, to show your own power.

You speak of intentions. Well, I don't know. All I know is that the rationalizations behind "collateral damage" are very similar to the rationalizations of the bombers who attack military posts and kill civilians there too; or those who place IED's to kill enemy troops but just happen to be triggered by a civilian. "Oh, well, they are our enemy anyway"/"People are bound to die in war" kind of stuff...

If that's the case (which it's not, it is possible to fight a war keeping the civilian casualties down to a score or so in freak accidents) than I guess I better be looking at pacifism...

lancelot

04-26-2006, 22:59

In other words, most self-proclaimed Christians these days have let the evils of "Western Secular society" defile them and their religion, instead of being bold as Jesus demanded. They have let "popular opinion" and their pathetic fear of "not offending the majority secularists" dull the fire in their hearts, suppress their faith, will, and moral duty to stand up against atrocities.

Muslims on the other hand, will never roll over like that. Nor should they.

Its not about rolling over its about willingness to change, acommodating others and generally trying to be more tolerant and living in peace with your neighbour....things which I get the impression you dont think are worth considering...which is very sad and hardly goes any way to play down the stereotype that all muslims are bombers.

Indeed there is no and never will be compatibility between Western societies that glorify and perpetuate mass murdering of babies, "homosexuality", and all other manner of atrocity; and Muslim societies that have morals and principles that will not be dulled by any attempted shout-downs from an evil secular majority.

Dont forget- repression of women to a medieval degree, murder of civillian aid workers and filming it (people trying to help muslim communities no less!!!), resorting to settling grievances with bombs...oh hang on...thats muslim morals and principles...~:rolleyes:

As to your enlightened comments on homosexuality...I recently spoke to someone who returned from Egypt. A man there explained to him that men engaging in sex with another was not against religious law as long as the 2 men did not love each other....it is only the love that makes it 'wrong'....apprently a similar view was held with regard to sex with animals.... perhaps you would care to comment on that....?

And to your final point....so now it seems you are saying that people who dont believe in your god are evil, and people who dont believe in any god are all 'evil secularists'....

Aside from insulting any secular patrons here do you really believe atheists, non-believers or whatever you want to call them are evil?

Im actually curious...how evil are they?....like kicking a cat evil or Hitler, Pol Pot and Stalin in a cage match evil...???

Csargo

04-26-2006, 23:13

The Muslims have a good point and there is no reason why they should tolerate having immoral crap like that associated with their flags. Good for them for standing up for their beliefs, as can be expected. :2thumbsup:

Theres a difference between standing up for what you believe in and threatening someone with knives and sticks in hoods. I'm all for standing up for what you believe in but when you turn it into violence it isn't cool.:book:

Strike For The South

04-27-2006, 00:35

the Muslims are angry?
Shocking

Sig material! alas mine is gone.

German brothel ad angers Muslims

Well they can go back to wherever they came from. You cant excepect to crap in my pot and make you dinner. These men can assamilate or leave.

Strike For The South

04-27-2006, 04:05

Now let me give you my perspective.

Let's start with an analogy. When there is a hostage situation (at least here in America) What happens? Do the police go and bomb the **** out of the building the hostages are in just because the hostage taker is there too? No. They do everything possible to save the hostages. Even the extremely well trained snipers are not supposed to shoot until they get a perfectly clear shot and are without a doubt sure that the hostages won't get hurt.

So why do we show laxity in war? You say that there is an "extreme attempt to avoid them." I disagree. If an army is going to be using weapons that have a blast radius, then tell me why these weapons are allowed to be used in civilian areas? They should simply be confined to strict battlefield use, where there are 0 civilians.

A freak accident where a civilian happened to enter a battlefield just at the moment where bombing raids were going on is different from going into civilian territory and bombing it to dust.

The enemy hides in the city? Well go in after them with troops. But oh yeah, it's just easier to bomb the **** out of them. After all, that is the purpose of 'shock and awe' campaigns: to terrify the enemy, to destroy as much as possible, to show your own power.

You speak of intentions. Well, I don't know. All I know is that the rationalizations behind "collateral damage" are very similar to the rationalizations of the bombers who attack military posts and kill civilians there too; or those who place IED's to kill enemy troops but just happen to be triggered by a civilian. "Oh, well, they are our enemy anyway"/"People are bound to die in war" kind of stuff...

If that's the case (which it's not, it is possible to fight a war keeping the civilian casualties down to a score or so in freak accidents) than I guess I better be looking at pacifism...

First off the milatarys job is to kill the enemy they are not a police force and shouldnt be held to the same kind of standards. Not to mention war is war its not some fluffy game people die its bad we dont purposley do it we try to avodie it but it is an ugly fact. As for American muslims there just arent that many of them espacilly considering the much higher muslim per capita ratios in European countries. Now how these people are allowed to walk around and try to bully people is beyond me. They remind me of some of the old KKK stories Ive heard. Fear tactics and violence to get there way except for the fact the kkk was the clear majorty (ethnicly) while muslims are still in the minorty. Europe must have these men assimalte or leave it cant continue like this becuase it will get violent not today not tommorow but in 5 10 years yall will be reapean the rewards of a lax socitey (Dont worry the same thing will happen here if the illeagals arent dealt with I aint pickin on anyone)

Papewaio

04-27-2006, 04:28

This goes to the fundamental differences between Western secular society and the mindset of Muslims. I don't believe its possible for the two ideals to coexist. Sorry, it just isn't working no matter how people try to paint it as tolerance.

Don't worry we of the Western Secular Society (motto we are a social group not a religion) feel that we cannot get along with the fundamentalists of all religions (including the atheists who give just cause in getting Atheism called a religion due to their blind bigotry).

Patricius

04-27-2006, 04:46

Audience Participant: "I've been reading through the Book of Numbers recently, and come across that passage in Chapter 31 about the destruction of the Midianites. How do you explain that apparent travesty of the destruction of that people with the just and holy God?"

Pat Robertson: The wars of extermination have given a lot of people trouble unless they understand fully what was going on. The people in the land of Palestine were very wicked. They were given over to idolatry. They sacrificed their children. They had all kinds of abominable sex practices. They were having sex apparently with animals. They were having sex men with men and women with women. They were committing adultery and fornication. They were serving idols. As I say, they were offering their children up, and they were forsaking God.

God told the Israelites to kill them all: men, women and children; to destroy them. And that seems like a terrible thing to do. Is it or isn't it? Well, let us assume that there were two thousand of them or ten thousand of them living in the land, or whatever number, I don't have the exact number, but pick a number. And God said, "Kill them all." Well, that would seem hard, wouldn't it? But that would be 10,000 people who probably would go to hell. But if they stayed and reproduced, in thirty, forty or fifty or sixty or a hundred more years there could conceivably be ... ten thousand would grow to a hundred, a hundred thousand conceivably could grow to a million, and there would be a million people who would have to spend an eternity in Hell! And it is far more merciful to take away a few than to see in the future a hundred years down the road, and say, "Well, I'll have to take away a million people, that will be forever apart from God because the abomination is there." It's like a contagion. God saw that there was no cure for it. It wasn't going to change, and all they would do is cause trouble for the Israelites and pull the Israelites away from God and prevent the truth of God from reaching the earth. And so God in love -- and that was a loving thing -- took away a small number that he might not have to take away a large number.

source (http://www.positiveatheism.org/hist/quotes/revpat.htm)

Jesus did not have too much to say about doing in the unbeliever - will recheck, though. I do not think I will find it. The use of a sword by Peter was one justification used (a discussion of Peter (http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/features/biblemysteries/peter.shtml)). If he had a sword surely Jesus authorised that he armed. As evident above the Old Testament has plenty of it. A Pat Robertson gloss on the verses is also of interest. Killing sinners is merciful because if they have descendant, more will go to hell. Pat Robertson's God does not force you to be a tolerant wimp.

AntiochusIII

04-27-2006, 05:58

Now I'm gonna get flamed, or may be a warning point or two:

But WHY THE HECK DO WE HAVE TO CARE WHAT THE **** IS WRITTEN IN THE RELIGIOUS BOOKS IF IT'S JUST GOING AGAINST OUR BEST JUDGEMENTS ANYWAY?

:wall:

Not that I'm shouting at anyone in particular. But it's annoying to see justifications like "becaus [blah blah fiction writer blah] say dis, your wrong an im rite11!!!!!11one! i burn u/bomb u/pwn u"

But if it's stupid, and you're concerned, and you study the cause, actually keep an open mind, actually listen and try to understand, and you come to the conclusion that it's really just stupidity. Well, do something against it!

Oh, and stupidity goes all ways. And what was its little companion? Bigotry?

LeftEyeNine

04-27-2006, 07:46

Ja'chyra

04-27-2006, 09:18

Gah, I find this conflict worse than it was during the Crusades. I'm ashamed that the representation of my religion is in hands of disturbed gangsters pretending to serve it. I see the Western mind has been going as stiff as whom they oppose. Shall Allah bless all.

That's the whole problem LEN, nobody is doing anyone any favours with this kind of crap.

We (Western Society) has learned that Muslims don't like pictures of Muhammed and tend to over-react (In our view) so the lesson was learned and I doubt will be repeated in national newspapers. But, if muslims want to move to Western countries then they need to learn that most, not all by any means, of the emphasis of fitting in is down to them.

It'll all come to a head at some point and unless some common sense is shown it will result in new laws restricting the freedom of everyone, Eastern and Western.

I personally have no qualms about telling sexist, rasicist or other 'ist jokes, but there is a time and a place, but by the same measure I don't get upset when people tell me Scottish jokes. Maybe Ser should spread some of those hugs around and then we can all go out and totally ratted, oops do muslims drink? :shame: Sorry couldn't help it:laugh4:

Fragony

04-27-2006, 09:54

"The situation was explosive," Mr Lobscheid told the paper.

Muhahahahaha :laugh4:

Oh they are angry again oh teh shock teh horror teh surprise, aren't they always angry? *bzzzzzzzt* default mode enabled *bzzzzzzt*

Devastatin Dave

04-27-2006, 18:38

It'll all come to a head at some point and unless some common sense is shown it will result in new laws restricting the freedom of everyone, Eastern and Western.

No thanks freedoms should not be restricted simply because silly cartoons makes one group go into a murderous rage in the name of their war mongering prophet. How about the 6th century group join the 21st century. Problem Solve. Praise Allah.

Brenus

04-27-2006, 19:17

“I.e. we imported the illiterate, the backward”: I would disagree on this point (une fois n’est pas coutume). It was a deliberate choice to import illiterate immigrants from Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia and others newly independent states (from France) in order to rebuilt France. The industries didn’t need inventors, they needed hard working people they could underpay if possible illiterate, they can’t complain to the Unions or go to see the Conseil des Prudhommes in case of illegal conditions of work. For one post, they imported 4 persons, after you put the job in “auction”. The guy accepting to work for the lesser salary got it. The three others, who care?

“The crap that has gone on in France recently with the riots” It wasn’t a Muslim riots as such. The rioters burned mosque as well.

“some muslims kidnapped a jew” I am not sure they were Muslims, and it was for money.

“Well, times are a-changing:” One swallow doesn’t make spring (free translation from une hirondelle ne fait pas le printemps). It is an attack on their money, how they feed their family… So I am not sure that this indignation is genuine coming from the Muslims Brothers who, last week, were killing the Copts in Cairo. But good signals for the Islamo/fascists from Hamas as well who start to understand the price of power: You have to be responsible…

“Besides, the outrage here at the tens of thousands of civilians killed in Iraq and Afghanistan was really nowhere to be found either...” It was more English demonstrating against the war to Iraq than demonstrations in the Muslim world in protest against the Taliban Regime. Again, apart Turkey (except in you are Kurd: I know, LeftEyeNine, I know), no Muslim Country really live in Democracy.

The problem is we judge the Muslim/Islam on the extremist/fascist ones. Now, if you judge Christianity with the Inquisition, the genocide in South America, mixing the Spanish invasion and Catholism as one unit, you will reach the same judgement:
Christianity isn’t compatible with Democracy, especially the Catholic branch; They obey to an foreign power (a none elected leader, the Pope in Rome) and give money it/him, they are saying that they belong to a bigger community than their own country, we can’t be sure of their allegiance, they organised civil riots and protest when the law voted by a elected parliament goes against their own view, they use terrorism and killings against their opponents etc… :inquisitive:

“WHY THE HECK DO WE HAVE TO CARE WHAT THE **** IS WRITTEN IN THE RELIGIOUS BOOKS IF IT'S JUST GOING AGAINST OUR BEST JUDGEMENTS ANYWAY” Why do we bother about religion?:2thumbsup:

Joker85

04-28-2006, 02:32

[B]“The crap that has gone on in France recently with the riots” It wasn’t a Muslim riots as such. The rioters burned mosque as well.

“some muslims kidnapped a jew” I am not sure they were Muslims, and it was for money.

:

As to your first point. Well muslims were burning mosques and killing fellow muslims in the riots over the cartoons also. What's your point?

As to your second point, you are wrong. They were muslims and he was targeted because he was a jew.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4753348.stm

"The suspected gang leader has been arrested in Ivory Coast. He allegedly said Halimi was picked because he was a Jew, and therefore presumed to be rich."

This same group kidnapped 4 people in total. 3 of them were Jews.

In another incident in Paris, a 23 year old named Sebastien Selam was walking home from work when a Muslim attacked him in a garage, slit his throat twice, gouged out his eyes and ran up the stairs yelling "I have killed my Jew. I will go to heaven."

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=12559

Alexander the Pretty Good

04-28-2006, 02:38

The enemy hides in the city? Well go in after them with troops. But oh yeah, it's just easier to bomb the **** out of them. After all, that is the purpose of 'shock and awe' campaigns: to terrify the enemy, to destroy as much as possible, to show your own power.

Moving infantry into a city can't be better than bombing it - at least with my understanding of modern US air bombing tactics we hit targets with smart bombs and such - can't stop civilian casualties but we're not carpet bombing the place.

While street fighting is a bit more imprecise, I would imagine. :juggle2:

Tribesman

04-28-2006, 02:49

In another story from Paris, a 23 year old named Sebastien Selam was walking home from work when a Muslim attacked him in a garage, slit his throat twice, gouged out his eyes and ran up the stairs yelling "I have killed my Jew. I will go to heaven."

Interesting , a phsyco with drug problems who also tried to kill his own uncle and his own mother , were they Jewish as well ?

naut

04-28-2006, 09:34

Not All Muslims Are Bad

The majority get a bad reputation by the acts of the minority, because the media only covers all the evil things Muslims do. Which is a shame ... because I have some really nice muslim friends (from Iran) and they get a lot of flak for being Muslim.

What I find irritating is that in regard to Israel, is that the media is so pro-Jewish (no offence to any people of the Jewish Religion/Race here). It never covers the terrorist acts that Israel undertakes :inquisitive:.

I've read the Koran cover-to-cover, it was strange at times (especially the part about: walking in the desert for 4 months unmolested, and then you will be my brother). But it is all about interpretation, like the part about "women hiding their modesty" (it literally says they must hide their modesty, nothing more and nothing less). Unfortunatly the extremists take a very violent and dominating interpretation of the Koran.

Back on topic:

If Muslims feel offended about having these flags on the ad, they should take it up peacefully. Not with threats and violence! Also, Where was the ad? Berlin? IIRC Berlin has a very large Turkish Population.

Dâriûsh

04-28-2006, 10:00

I think they had to cover the flags lest the brothel would be overrun by Iranian and Saudi customers, uh, I mean delegations. :sweatdrop:

Husar

04-28-2006, 12:33

Also, Where was the ad? Berlin?
Cologne.
There are quite a few parts with a huge turkish population in Germany.
Here in Essen when I´m in the underground after 8pm(20:00) I sometimes feel almost like a stranger because around 80+% of the people in there don´t speak German and those who look German often speak Russian.
That´s not always of course and on daylight there are more German-looking persons around, but I´m often surprised when they suddenly start talking to each other in a slavic language...

Now it´s always nice to learn about other cultures, but if they always speak their language, I won´t learn much. I don´t know where to head with this anymore, I don´t hate immigrants , but I heard about people being scared to go out after 8pm because they are afraid of the turkish youth on the street...and they listen to music from their crappy cellphone speakers in the public, without earplugs that is......no, I still don´t hate them, but some of them are just strange(a German doing this would be just as strange, but so far I have seen mostly turkish youth doing this).

Ok, Nazi out.:oops: :laugh4:

I think they had to cover the flags lest the brothel would be overrun by Iranian and Saudi customers, uh, I mean delegations.:sweatdrop:
:laugh4:

naut

04-28-2006, 13:25

I've never been to Köln, but I have been to Frankfurt and München. Guten Tag!

Originally Posted by Dâriûsh
I think they had to cover the flags lest the brothel would be overrun by Iranian and Saudi customers, uh, I mean delegations.

ROLF! :laugh3:

Originally Posted by Husar
Now it´s always nice to learn about other cultures, but if they always speak their language, I won´t learn much. I don´t know where to head with this anymore, I don´t hate immigrants , but I heard about people being scared to go out after 8pm because they are afraid of the turkish youth on the street...and they listen to music from their crappy cellphone speakers in the public, without earplugs that is......no, I still don´t hate them, but some of them are just strange(a German doing this would be just as strange, but so far I have seen mostly turkish youth doing this).

But I guess thats part of the problem. They believe they can do whatever they want, including intimidate the west. However, it violates a law/rule set down in the Koran!!! The rule states that they must obide by Allah's laws and the rules of the land they are living in!!!