View Full Version : Great Wall of Mexico
Ok I was just wondering if anyone thinks that this is a good idea or not to keep illegal immigrants out of America.
Ok I was just wondering if anyone thinks that this is a good idea or not to keep illegal immigrants out of America.
Um.... Obviously. :2thumbsup:
Well, wall is vague. I don't think a Berlin style wall is necessary, but better fences and walls need to be put up, along with more board patrol stations.
solypsist
04-28-2006, 02:13
this thread is practically begging to be locked: no Gah option.
Uesugi Kenshin
04-28-2006, 02:16
I don't think it's a good idea. Better border control definately is, but walls don't tend to work too well. Especially if they dig tunnels as they have in the past, including at least one extremely long one that had a thread dedicated to it here.
Wall or no wall the first thing we need to do is send the guard down to the border to augment the border patrol until such a time as we can massively increase the funding and personel of the border patrol itself.
The second thing we need to do is change the penalties for those caught entering illegaly. As it stands now someone can come in, get caught, get sent back, and a few days later they are caught again. Imho, it should go something like this:
1st offense: sent back
2nd offense: fined and sent back
3rd offense: 3 months in jail, sent back
4th+ offense: 2 years in jail, sent back
I'm sorry but if you get caught and kicked out 4 times and keep coming back nothing short of real jail time will deter you. And no matter how many BP/NG agents we have on the border if people know you can get caught as many times as you want and just come right back we'll never control our borders.
BHCWarman88
04-28-2006, 02:53
Wall or no wall the first thing we need to do is send the guard down to the border to augment the border patrol until such a time as we can massively increase the funding and personel of the border patrol itself.
The second thing we need to do is change the penalties for those caught entering illegaly. As it stands now someone can come in, get caught, get sent back, and a few days later they are caught again. Imho, it should go something like this:
1st offense: sent back
2nd offense: fined and sent back
3rd offense: 3 months in jail, sent back
4th+ offense: 2 years in jail, sent back
I'm sorry but if you get caught and kicked out 4 times and keep coming back nothing short of real jail time will deter you. And no matter how many BP/NG agents we have on the border if people know you can get caught as many times as you want and just come right back we'll never control our borders.
nope
1st Time,Sent back
2nd Time, in Jail 5 Years
3nd Time, Shot
Devastatin Dave
04-28-2006, 03:20
Wall, gun turrents, mines. Mexico is slowly invading the United States and its time to fight this problem the way it should be fought. I want a wall and fields of bleaching white bones in the desert on the Mexican side to reminds those that invasion through illegal means is not the answer.
solypsist
04-28-2006, 03:24
after reading this story, i think we need a wall to keep mexicans safe:
"Two white teenagers severely beat and sodomized a 16-year-old Hispanic boy who they believed had tried to kiss a 12-year-old white girl at a party in Spring, Texas, authorities said."
http://www.ksat.com/news/9044684/detail.html
solypsist
04-28-2006, 03:26
funnily enough , i feel the same way about iraq!
I want...fields of bleaching white bones in the desert...to reminds those that invasion through illegal means is not the answer.
Devastatin Dave
04-28-2006, 03:29
after reading this story, i think we need a wall to keep mexicans safe:
"Two white teenagers severely beat and sodomized a 16-year-old Hispanic boy who they believed had tried to kiss a 12-year-old white girl at a party in Spring, Texas, authorities said."
http://www.ksat.com/news/9044684/detail.html
I don't think you want to go down that path soly considering the number of hispanic violent crimes and prison population in the United States far outweigh evil whitey's numbers. But then again that's facts and that would get in the way of your need to make Americans, particularly white, look like Klansmen.:wall:
The best solution is to invade and annex Mexico to the US. That way everyone is even less happy then they are now.
Kanamori
04-28-2006, 03:32
I don't think you want to go down that path soly considering the number of hispanic violent crimes and prison population in the United States far outweigh evil whitey's numbers. But then again that's facts and that would get in the way of your need to make Americans, particularly white, look like Klansmen.
I don't see how that adresses the fact, or is it retaliation?:book:
The best solution is to invade and annex Mexico to the US. That way everyone is even less happy then they are now.
No see what we need to do is invade Guatemala. Then we pump that baby full of cash and make sure the standard of living is higher than in Mexico. That way all the illegalls will stop coming north and instead poor over their own southern border.:idea2:
Devastatin Dave
04-28-2006, 03:36
funnily enough , i feel the same way about iraq!
I'm sure nothing would make your sun dial strike high noon faster than to see your fellow countrymen dead. Your post is very telling. Are you still going to Iraq? Hopefully those "illegal Aliens" over there will be nice enough to keep your unthankful butt safe. Maybe you'll get the chance to make sexy photos of some blown up "illegal alien" soldiers over there. I bet that will just make you all creamy under your burka.:2thumbsup:
I'm sure nothing would make your sun dial strike high noon faster than to see your fellow countrymen dead. Your post is very telling. Are you still going to Iraq? Hopefully those "illegal Aliens" over there will be nice enough to keep your unthankful butt safe. Maybe you'll get the chance to make sexy photos of some blown up "illegal alien" soldiers over there. I bet that will just make you all creamy under your burka.:2thumbsup:
Well he is in fact the ultimate coward. He has enough hate for America that he wishes our soldiers dead, yet not enough hate to prevent him from leeching off this country and our standard of living. So not only does he stand for nothing, he's a coward and a leech.
I'd be ashamed to move to Britain and go "damn I hate this place so much I wish their people would die... but I don't hate it enough to leave or anything like that, then I couldn't enjoy this lush lifestyle!!".
I guess that's why all he's left with is whining on a video game board about it. That's his great claim to fame. "Daddy, what did you do to stand up for what you believe in?" "Well son, I moved to the country that I hate and wished bad things upon it while I cried about them on the internet and leeched all the fruits of their work."
The best solution is to invade and annex Mexico to the US. That way everyone is even less happy then they are now.
Just annex the vacation spots and I'll be happy. That way going to Cacun and Cabo will be easier; no customs or immigration!
Devastatin Dave
04-28-2006, 03:44
Well he is in fact the ultimate coward. He has enough hate for America that he wishes our soldiers dead, yet not enough hate to prevent him from leeching off this country and our standard of living. So not only does he stand for nothing, he's a coward and a leech.
I'd be ashamed to move to Britain and go "damn I hate this place so much I wish their people would die... but I don't hate it enough to leave or anything like that, then I couldn't enjoy this lush lifestyle!!".
I guess that's why all he's left with is whining on a video game board about it. That's his great claim to fame. "Daddy, what did you do to stand up for what you believe in?" "Well son, I moved to the country that I hate and wished bad things upon it while I cried about them on the internet and leeched all the fruits of their work."
Great post. My post will get me warnings, your's deserves great praise!!!:2thumbsup:
AntiochusIII
04-28-2006, 03:48
Finally, another immigration thread! I've been waiting so long I thought the Konservative Klub was dead![/sarcasm]
Alors...
Ok I was just wondering if anyone thinks that this is a good idea or not to keep illegal immigrants out of America.Complex, vague question. Limited poll choices that forced out only extreme positions.
Lions! :creep:
this thread is practically begging to be locked: no Gah option.Where is Pindar when you need him? ~;)
solypsist
04-28-2006, 03:50
by your logic any german who didnt cheer the reich as they poured over the polish border was an ultimate coward. nice. an illegal war is an illegal war, plain and simple, and i'm against all parts of the mehcanism that continue it.
Well he is in fact the ultimate coward. He has enough hate for America that he wishes our soldiers dead, yet not enough hate to prevent him from leeching off this country and our standard of living. So not only does he stand for nothing, he's a coward and a leech.
okay okay - you totally got me. of course i don't mean what i typed. it'd be stupid to want people to die. i wrote it to point out the selective hypocrisy of supporting one "illegal invasion" over another.
Devastatin Dave
04-28-2006, 04:02
The invasion of Iraq was not illegal. If you want to compare with your silly arguement, there are over 100,000 "illegal invaders" in Iraq compared to the estimated 12,000,000 true illegals that have invaded the US. Even with your warped logic, it still does not compare. Be sure to not pack any of that #### your hitting between posts because I'm not going to go to New York to bail you out.:laugh4:
okay okay - you totally got me. of course i don't mean what i typed. it'd be stupid to want people to die. i wrote it to point out the selective hypocrisy of supporting one "illegal invasion" over another.
You simply declaring a war illegal is quite worthless. Allow me to provide an example.
My name is Joker, I'm against illegal posts by people named solypsist! Wow, that was fun. I think I'll declare everything I disagree with illegal to gain legitimacy. In fact, if you reply to what I'm typing right now, that's illegal.
Once again we find people who simply love to toss illegal on everything they possibly can.
As to your World War 2 analogy, aside from the obvious ignorance of even attempting to compare the American invasion of Iraq which removed a regime that was actually committing acts similar to the nazis, you are a coward and leech not because you are against the war.
You are a coward and leech because you wish our soldiers dead, which obviously shows a high level of hate. But your "hate" and "opposition" stops at the point where you have to do anything more than whine on the internet about it. So you enjoy the freedoms and prosperity that the very people you wish dead fought and died for.
Basically, you're against the war, but not enough against it to do anything more than type about it.
You wish our soldiers dead, but not enough to stop leeching off their blood and sweat.
Remember though, you can't respond here, I've declared that illegal. Therefore it is!
solypsist
04-28-2006, 04:17
yep. just me alright. :juggle2:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3661134.stm
anyway, think what you want. i refuse to try to fit into anyone else's definition of what a "patriot" is. i'm a citizen of the world and have moved far beyond the parochial nature of wrapping just one country's flag around me to feel "secure." people who need the security of a one-dimensional world view are people i tend to avoid.
You simply declaring a war illegal is quite worthless.
AntiochusIII
04-28-2006, 04:19
The invasion of Iraq was not illegal.Neither was the invasion of Poland, nor were the invasions of France and the Soviet Union, and since you did not seem to recognize any world-level organizations' authority, neither was the invasion of the neutral Low Countries. It's all legal in the Iron Law of the Reich!
:2thumbsup:
But oh no! I'm comparing the USA against the Nazis! I'm an evil liberal commie bastard! Oh no!
...create your own correlation...
:P
Devastatin Dave
04-28-2006, 04:25
Neither was the invasion of Poland, nor were the invasions of France and the Soviet Union, and since you did not seem to recognize any world-level organizations' authority, neither was the invasion of the neutral Low Countries. It's all legal in the Iron Law of the Reich!
:2thumbsup:
But oh no! I'm comparing the USA against the Nazis! I'm an evil liberal commie bastard! Oh no!
...create your own correlation...
:P
Yup, you've got the United States figured out. We're actually Nazis. Wow, great arguement. When you can't talk about reality, its always easier to call someone a Nazi. That's always a winner. Gotta go, time to put another Jew on the barbie... :dizzy2:
yep. just me alright. :juggle2:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3661134.stm
i see now what users who post purely with their emotions tend to miss the greater meaning of my replies.
He said the decision to take action in Iraq should have been made by the Security Council
Ah, now I get it.
The head of a non elected, undemocratic, massively corrupt, horribly incompetent international body declares anything that doesn't pass and recieve the blessing of that body illegal, and that means what again?
The UN has been around what 50 years? I guess every war in the history of man kind before that was "illegal".
Last time I checked, the Constitution says nothing about recieving the Ok from Syria and Iran before we act in what we believed to be self defense.
But nice try.
The last time I checked, the United States, Great Britain, Australia, Italy, and the other nations involved in Iraq with us did not scede our sovereignty to a corrupt body of beauracrats appointed with no say from the people. A body that put Sudan on its human rights commision. A body that put Iran on its non proliferation commission.
Speaking of which, legalized slavery and borderline genocide is going on in the Sudan right now, everyone is still waiting on the UN to act. It took the UN how long to act in Rwanda again? Oh yeah, after 1 million people were hacked to death. Kofi Annan might want to focus on stuff like that instead of declaring any military action taken by sovereign not approved by him and whatever nations happen to be on the security council during that stretch "illegal". He also might want to make sure nations on the security council arn't being bribed by the nation(s) military action is being contemplated against.
Reenk Roink
04-28-2006, 04:34
This is quite possibly the most disgusting thread ever:
First, the question is so simplistic, and the answers so black and white that Gah is necessary to account for the wide range of views.
Second:
1st Time,Sent back
2nd Time, in Jail 5 Years
3nd Time, Shot
OK, are you actually advocating the killings of border crossers?
And what the hell is this?
Wall, gun turrents, mines. Mexico is slowly invading the United States and its time to fight this problem the way it should be fought. I want a wall and fields of bleaching white bones in the desert on the Mexican side to reminds those that invasion through illegal means is not the answer.
This is disgusting and depraved, even for you Dave...
And then you guys twist around solypsist's remark?
His statement clearly was showing the absolute idiocy and evilness of Dave's, and now it's turned around on him. Why didn't anyone censure the comments about killing Mexicans?
Close this thread...
solypsist
04-28-2006, 04:36
are you talking about the UN or about Bush's (first) term when he invaded Iraq?
Ah, now I get it.
The head of a non elected, undemocratic, massively corrupt, horribly incompetent international body declares anything that doesn't pass and recieve the blessing of that body illegal, and that means what again?
it's funny how Bushies always portray the UN as antiquated and obsolete except when it serves their purposes not to (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060428/ap_on_re_mi_ea/rice). either is is, or it isn't , none of this selective redefining on a case-by-case basis. anyway, you missed my poitn entirely by going into knee-jerk reaction mode of deriding the UN instead of seeing that my statement about the Iraq invasion being illegal was not a figment of my imagination.
Neither was the invasion of Poland, nor were the invasions of France and the Soviet Union, and since you did not seem to recognize any world-level organizations' authority, neither was the invasion of the neutral Low Countries. It's all legal in the Iron Law of the Reich!
:P
In your attempt at sarcasm, you are actually right.
In fact, even Saddams invasion of Kuwait was not "illegal". Illegal is simply a propaganda word when it comes to wars.
Saddams invasion was immoral, therefore we acted.
I have no problem debating about whether a war, ANY war is moral or right. But for someone to declare a war illegal is rather simplistic.
One of the fundamental rights of nations is to declare war and make peace. It would be great if we all lived in a paradise where there was no war. But we don't. And since we don't, sovereign nations with the right of self determination have the right to declare war when they view it nescessary. Again though, that is not to say that every war is "right" or "moral". That is, and should be debated. But to declare a war illegal requires there be a "legal" war. And that's laughable. As much as Kofi might not like it, his body is not the "world congress". His body is not elected. His body is not vested by the people of the world to make laws and declare what is legal and what is not.
A good example is Rwanda. The UN did not act during that genocide. If (and I believe it is our everlasting shame that we did not) the US and our allies had decided to intervene in spite of the UN and act to put a stop to it, would that be "illegal"? Of course not. But don't let that get in the way. Carry on. By the way, don't think I've forgotten how you illegally responded to this thread!
Devastatin Dave
04-28-2006, 04:38
Close this thread...
If you can't take the heat, don't bite the taco.:laugh4:
Reenk Roink
04-28-2006, 04:40
If you can't take the heat, don't bite the taco.:laugh4:
Hilarious man. I pooped my pants.
Devastatin Dave
04-28-2006, 04:42
Hilarious man. I pooped my pants.
Was it from the taco or the Mexican water?
solypsist
04-28-2006, 04:48
well okay i guess now is a good a time to reveal that this thread and most replies within were orchestrated by devdave and myself to keep the board hopping as we chatted in real time while watching comedycentral and then posting during commercial breaks.
Was it from the taco or the Mexican water?
Devastatin Dave
04-28-2006, 04:51
well okay i guess now is a good a time to reveal that this thread and most replies within were orchestrated by devdave and myself to keep the board hopping as we chatted in real time while watching comedycentral and then posting during commercial breaks.
You told!?!?!? I thought that it was "our little secret". No more pillow talk with you, tattle tell!!! :furious3:
AntiochusIII
04-28-2006, 05:10
well okay i guess now is a good a time to reveal that this thread and most replies within were orchestrated by devdave and myself to keep the board hopping as we chatted in real time while watching comedycentral and then posting during commercial breaks.Well, duh. Don't pretend I don't know that before.
+1 :balloon2:
What are you guys watching?
Yup, you've got the United States figured out. We're actually Nazis. Wow, great arguement. When you can't talk about reality, its always easier to call someone a Nazi. That's always a winner. Gotta go, time to put another Jew on the barbie...:-P
...create your own correlation...
How boring are you! Predictable, too! :no: This is no fun.
In your attempt at sarcasm, you are actually right.I know I'm right, that's why I posted...
Sarcasm is not meant to always be false. It might just as well be a paradox.
Thanks for agreeing! :2thumbsup:
Samurai Waki
04-28-2006, 05:21
Hiring a Mexican: 5.00$
Hiring a Legal Citizen of the US: 60.00$
Building a Wall Across Mexico: 5,000,000,000$
Deporting Central African Republic Nationalists to take all the Jobs in Mexico: Priceless.
Divinus Arma
04-28-2006, 05:35
funnily enough , i feel the same way about iraq!
You want our troops to lose? You want our men and women to die en masse?
solypsist
04-28-2006, 06:10
You want our troops to lose? You want our men and women to die en masse?
come on - read the rest of the thread, dude.
https://img467.imageshack.us/img467/4699/tehold24xg.jpg
Tribesman
04-28-2006, 07:51
I have no problem debating about whether a war, ANY war is moral or right. But for someone to declare a war illegal is rather simplistic.
Really ????
You simply declaring a war illegal is quite worthless. Allow me to provide an example.
How about providing an example where you actually know what laws and treaties are on the books of your government Joker ?
It is an illegal war , no two ways about it . Ask the State Department , they helped draft the law:laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:
In fact, even Saddams invasion of Kuwait was not "illegal". Illegal is simply a propaganda word when it comes to wars.
Errrr...No .... it was illegal , there are laws governing this sort of thing , and Iraq , just like America , signed up to these laws . If it is still on the books as law then it is law and a violation of that law is ...ummmmm...whats the word .....oh yeah ...ILLEGAL
Would you like to learn the laws before you make any more ridiculous claims Joker ?
ajaxfetish
04-28-2006, 08:07
How about a Great Wall of Canada. After all, right now Michigan's our first line of defense. :no:
Ajax
are you talking about the UN or about Bush's (first) term when he invaded Iraq?
it's funny how Bushies always portray the UN as antiquated and obsolete except when it serves their purposes not to (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060428/ap_on_re_mi_ea/rice). either is is, or it isn't , none of this selective redefining on a case-by-case basis. anyway, you missed my poitn entirely by going into knee-jerk reaction mode of deriding the UN instead of seeing that my statement about the Iraq invasion being illegal was not a figment of my imagination.
Precisely it will always be the opinion of someone that if the other doesn't agree with them that they must be screwed up. Granted the UN is a pretty big bunch of bureaucratic corrupt politico's, but it has kept the world reasonably safe and major war free for 60 years. Pretty damn good IMO. As for your comment about the African genocides, the UN doesn't have the budget to respond to all the problems in Africa. Nor does any other country have the ability to respond to those problems. Africa is pretty screwed up at this point and there's no real way to fix it.
As for the war being illegal. Calling a war illegal is impossible, it is generally the right of the victors to impose their will on the conquered and there's nothing like justifiing it by calling a war illegal. As for Iraq being illegal, its just a way for the lefties to make bush and nearly the entire congress look bad.
Come on joker stop the personal attacks and actually debate the problem. Soly's really a good person, if you can ignore the bleeding heart liberlism, most of his comments are just sarcastic.
Which was, crud I forget what we were debating in this thread.
Oh right border security, we do need a wall with mexico. But it doesn't need to be much. Just something to slow them down or funnel them to certain channels so the border patrol can get to them. We also need the National Guard down there helping. We need congress to also stop sucking on Vicente Fox's teet and act. That is the most important step.
Tribesman
04-28-2006, 14:01
As for the war being illegal. Calling a war illegal is impossible
Sorry Tex , you had better write to your politicians and get them to remove the treaty from the books that says war is illegal .:book:
Avicenna
04-28-2006, 14:08
GAH. Silly people, it would be the Great Wall of America. The Great Wall of China was built to keep out the Xiongnu, Mongols, Manchurians and all, but it's built in China so it's called the Great Wall of China.
Sjakihata
04-28-2006, 15:04
Motto
Tear down one wall, erect two more!
I vote yes, but not in the sense of a physical wall that traverses our entire border- that's silly. We do need to control our borders- some of that will involve walls and most of it will involve manpower and electronic survelliance.
Don Corleone
04-28-2006, 16:11
Here's the question I don't get... why isn't anyone clamoring for Mexico to soften it's own immigration policy? Does any of the anti-US crowd have any idea just exactly what happens to Honduran and Guatamalan illegal immigrants found in Mexico?
I say establish visa quotas we can live with and then enforce them. Of course, I'm a racist and a bigot, so that's just me.
Kralizec
04-28-2006, 16:26
Feasonability aside, I don't see how you can be agains such a wall. It's not as if it will be some iron curtain where border guards will shoot every man, woman and child that comes in sight. They'll be told to leave. And if they try to get across violently, like some smugglers...well, good luck trying to outgun US border guards. So yes, stuff like gun turrets are acceptable to deal with Mexican thugs. Minefields? That's a tough one, but I suppose if you place it behind a fence with warning signs plastered all over it, you can justify even that. These people have absolutely no right to illegally cross the border, and I don't see why a nation should not be allowed to use reasonable force to stop them.
doc_bean
04-28-2006, 16:34
Can't you just dump nuclear waste on their side of the border so that if anyone survives the crossing at least they will be sterile ?
:2thumbsup: :2thumbsup: :2thumbsup:
Can't you just dump nuclear waste on their side of the border so that if anyone survives the crossing at least they will be sterile ?
:2thumbsup: :2thumbsup: :2thumbsup:
doc_bean for teh win!!!!
I think it's been said before, who are we going to get to build this wall? Illegals, of course!
Tribesman
04-28-2006, 17:00
I say establish visa quotas we can live with and then enforce them.
Woohoo , well you have the first bit , all you need to do is get the government to enforce its existing laws .
Though it is debatable considering the number of illegals that are able to find employment that the current yearly quota has been set too low .
I say establish visa quotas we can live with and then enforce them.
Woohoo , well you have the first bit , all you need to do is get the government to enforce its existing laws .
Though it is debatable considering the number of illegals that are able to find employment that the current yearly quota has been set too low .
The yearly quotos for legal immigration from Mexico and other central American countries is zero. Which was set to 0 becuase of the amount of illegals crossing the border. We need to enforce our own laws, but we also need to allow for legal immigration. Just as an ironic note though, notice how most "immigration activists" don't even know that there's a zero quota for immigration to the US from Central America.
Goofball
04-28-2006, 17:24
Well he is in fact the ultimate coward. He has enough hate for America that he wishes our soldiers dead, yet not enough hate to prevent him from leeching off this country and our standard of living. So not only does he stand for nothing, he's a coward and a leech.
I love seeing people anonymously talk tough in online chat forums, calling people cowards and such.
It's always good for a chuckle.
Listen kid: if you ever heard a shot fired your way in anger, you would most likely piss your pants. So ease up on the tough-guy routine.
I'm so sick of the right wing line "Anybody who is against the war in Iraq hates America."
Get over your bad self.
Maybe you should sign up and ask to be shipped over to Iraq yourself, seeing as how you love your country so much.
Or actually, maybe not.
It makes a way bigger patriotic statement insulting people on the internet.
I love seeing people anonymously talk tough in online chat forums, calling people cowards and such.
It's always good for a chuckle.
Listen kid: if you ever heard a shot fired your way in anger, you would most likely piss your pants. So ease up on the tough-guy routine.
I'm so sick of the right wing line "Anybody who is against the war in Iraq hates America."
Get over your bad self.
Maybe you should sign up and ask to be shipped over to Iraq yourself, seeing as how you love your country so much.
Or actually, maybe not.
It makes a way bigger patriotic statement insulting people on the internet.
Sorry "kid" (ah the hypocrisy of an e-tough guy decrying someone else's "attacks" on the internet while at that same time flexing his e-muscle and calling others "kid"), but apparently you are unable to determine the difference between opposing the war, and wishing our soldiers dead. Just because he said "I was kidding" later in the thread does not change the fact that at that time I believed him to be serious. That is why, if he were, he would have been a coward. And anyone who lives in this country and would wish our soldiers dead is indeed a coward. If you hate a country that much it's rather hypocritical to continue enjoying the prosperity of that country and the freedom that the very people you wish dead fought and died to attain and preserve.
Perhaps in the future, it would be a good idea to read an entire thread before jumping in and making yourself look rather silly with the "LOL ANYONE WHO DOESN"T SUPPORT THE WAR DOESN"T HATE AMERICANS KID LOL". I also would hope you were capable of both reading, and comprehending the many times in this very thread where I said, debate on the merrits of a war is indeed fine, and nessecary. Unfortunately it does not appear so. You are more content to pump up your e-ego and use the ever so original internet insult "kid".
Ah well, carry on "kid".:2thumbsup:
These people have absolutely no right to illegally cross the border, and I don't see why a nation should not be allowed to use reasonable force to stop them.
Hey, someone gets it. ~:thumb:
We need to enforce our own laws, but we also need to allow for legal immigration.Yes, emphasis on immigration too. We shouldnt be talking about a guest worker program- we should be talking about immigrants. If we need workers, have them immigrate thru proper channels become citizens and be productive members of society. None of this working here and then funnelling your paycheck back to Mexico- let them become proper American citizens, like our ancestors did.
I have no problem debating about whether a war, ANY war is moral or right. But for someone to declare a war illegal is rather simplistic.
Really ????
You simply declaring a war illegal is quite worthless. Allow me to provide an example.
How about providing an example where you actually know what laws and treaties are on the books of your government Joker ?
It is an illegal war , no two ways about it . Ask the State Department , they helped draft the law:laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:
In fact, even Saddams invasion of Kuwait was not "illegal". Illegal is simply a propaganda word when it comes to wars.
Errrr...No .... it was illegal , there are laws governing this sort of thing , and Iraq , just like America , signed up to these laws . If it is still on the books as law then it is law and a violation of that law is ...ummmmm...whats the word .....oh yeah ...ILLEGAL
Would you like to learn the laws before you make any more ridiculous claims Joker ?
Well, as to your first point:
First, the State Department does not consider the war in Iraq to be illegal. As to what you are trying to get it, this is what I believe to be the true problem with the UN. You believe the Iraq war to be illegal. So why doesn't the UN officially declare it so? Oh, because America can veto it. That's the problem. Any nation on earth with enough money and influence can buy a veto from one of the 5 permanent members. So therefore, to declare any military action taken by a sovereign nation that does meet the approval of the security council illegal is an exercise in futilty.
I could (and probably will later in this thread) expand and get into the issue of whether the UN has the right to declare itself having overruling authority over the elected representatives and leaders of sovereign nations. But for now allow me to present you with a hypothetical. To see where you would stand on this would help us, I think, with the debate of the power you view the UN as having.
12 years ago we all know what happened in Rwanda. During that time the UN, Nato, the US, and anyone with the power to act did not do so until it was too late.
However, let's say during that time debate was going on in the UN SC about sending troops in to stop the genocide. Let's also say the Hutus were not poor, quasi regime that they were, but a rich oil regime. Let's also pretend they were able to use the profits of that Oil to bribe the US into opposing any action by the UN against them. If, under those circumstances, France and Britain took action anyway in spite of the UN, would you consider that action "illegal"?
I know the tendancy is to immediately say "but that wasn't the case with xxx!". But we are not just talking about Iraq anymore, this turned into a debate on the legality of military action taken without the direct approval of the UN SC.
Goofball
04-28-2006, 18:40
Sorry "kid" (ah the hypocrisy of an e-tough guy decrying someone else's "attacks" on the internet while at that same time flexing his e-muscle and calling others "kid"), but apparently you are unable to determine the difference between opposing the war, and wishing our soldiers dead. Just because he said "I was kidding" later in the thread does not change the fact that at that time I believed him to be serious. That is why, if he were, he would have been a coward. And anyone who lives in this country and would wish our soldiers dead is indeed a coward. If you hate a country that much it's rather hypocritical to continue enjoying the prosperity of that country and the freedom that the very people you wish dead fought and died to attain and preserve.
Perhaps in the future, it would be a good idea to read an entire thread before jumping in and making yourself look rather silly with the "LOL ANYONE WHO DOESN"T SUPPORT THE WAR DOESN"T HATE AMERICANS KID LOL". I also would hope you were capable of both reading, and comprehending the many times in this very thread where I said, debate on the merrits of a war is indeed fine, and nessecary. Unfortunately it does not appear so. You are more content to pump up your e-ego and use the ever so original internet insult "kid".
Ah well, carry on "kid".:2thumbsup:
I did read the entire thread. I thought it was quite obvious from the beginning that Soly's post, while ill-advised and inflammatory, did point out that there was a certain hypocrisy taking place in the thread vis a vis "illegal invasions."
So your jumping in with the coward and leech accusations demonstrated to me a very distinct lack of comprehension on your part.
A lack of comprehension that has been made all the more poignant by your post above.
Tribesman
04-28-2006, 22:43
So therefore, to declare any military action taken by a sovereign nation that does meet the approval of the security council illegal is an exercise in futilty.
Joker , you fail to comprehend at all , it has nothing to do with the UN , it is legislation that America is bound to by law that says it is illegal , legislation that is on Americas statutes .
You know a law that was drawn up by the United States of America . It says it is illegal so therefore all your points about the UN and veto are useless .:book:
edit to add for Big Tex .The yearly quotos for legal immigration from Mexico and other central American countries is zero. Which was set to 0 becuase of the amount of illegals crossing the border. We need to enforce our own laws, but we also need to allow for legal immigration. Just as an ironic note though, notice how most "immigration activists" don't even know that there's a zero quota for immigration to the US from Central America.
Isn't it ironic that you don't seem to know there is more than one type of immigration quota .
GAH. Silly people, it would be the Great Wall of America. The Great Wall of China was built to keep out the Xiongnu, Mongols, Manchurians and all, but it's built in China so it's called the Great Wall of China.
Hey its my thread so I get to name the wall got it.
Oh, yeah If you dont like America you can getttttttttt out!!!!:laugh4:
Joker , you fail to comprehend at all , it has nothing to do with the UN , it is legislation that America is bound to by law that says it is illegal , legislation that is on Americas statutes .
.
I don't suppose it would be too much trouble to provide us specifically what statutes of American law you take to mean the current operation is illegal?
Tribesman
04-28-2006, 23:06
Joker , try thinking of Cornflakes ~;)
Joker , try thinking of Cornflakes ~;)
Kellogs? Frosted flakes?! FROSTED MINI WHEATS?!?!?!?!?!?!!!
Ah, it all became so clear!:2thumbsup:
Tribesman
04-28-2006, 23:20
See you got it first time . Well done .
Kralizec
04-29-2006, 00:09
These people have absolutely no right to illegally cross the border
Hey, someone gets it. ~:thumb:
I used "rights" in a broad sense (human rights), I meant, so the statement is not a tautology. I hear plenty of people claiming we can't really blame people from impoverished countries trying to migrate to greener pastures, and I grudgingly agree, but that doesn't make it a "right".
Louis VI the Fat
04-29-2006, 00:33
funnily enough , i feel the same way about iraq!
I want...fields of bleaching white bones in the desert...to reminds those that invasion through illegal means is not the answer.Uh, guys, Soly's reply must be understood in light of Dave's remark. Either you take it as a witty counter to Dave's over the top statement, or you take it literally.
By taking it literally though, you automatically subscribe to the opinion that America should shoot scores of Mexican men, women and children and let their bodies rot in the desert as a deterence.
Maybe you all forgot in your rightous neo-patriotic outrage that that is perhaps neither very Christian nor American? Somewhat the opposite of what your service men and women fought and died for?
scooter_the_shooter
04-29-2006, 01:26
Edit made a quote from the first page and posted about it before finding about how big the thread was:wall: :oops: :oops: I shoulda' read the whole thread first:wall:
I think that they should be allowed in, but not illegally.
-ZainDustin
This is what the mexican will be doing when we build our wall.
:wall: :wall: :wall: :wall: :wall: :wall: :wall: :wall: :wall: :wall: :wall:
<Mexico >America
:laugh4:
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