Callete! Este es nuestro pais y nuestro himno nacional ahora!!!

[Don Corleone]

For the non-Spanish speakers among you, it would appear that latino immigrants, no longer simply content to speak in Spanish, have made a new national anthem, in Spanish, 'based closely' on the Star Spangled Banner. Apparently, some English language lines will be inserted in a version due out in June, scolding people who support immigration controls.

So, to those of you who say 'they're not trying to take over'... let me ask you... when a forgeign invader starts altering your national symbols, and altering the are they still really 'just trying to get along?'

It's OUR National Anthem now!!! (http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/04/27/D8H8LGDO0.html)


The initial version of "Nuestro Himno," or "Our Anthem," comes out Friday and uses lyrics based closely on the English-language original, said Kidron, who heads the record label Urban Box Office. If they were translating the Star Spangled Banner into Spanish directly, I wouldn't have anywhere near the problem with this. But who gave them the right to alter it? We're supposed to just lay down and let Mexico dictate not only our immigration policies, but now also our national anthem is dictated to us by Mexcicans!

[Sjakihata]

I find it so funny when americans speaks of immigration in the tone that you do, like 'someone' is trying to take over your land/symbols/etc. A quick reminder of your countrys history makes any criticism of immigration redundant, I should say.

[Don Corleone]

Tell you what, Sjakihata... instead of sounding like a smug hypocrite, let's suggest something... Take a million Turks into Sweden, have them dictate the right to bring as many additional Turks into Sweden as they care to, and have them change your national anthem to Turkish, then we'll talk. Until then, you're just talking out of both sides of your mouth.

Edit: No offense to Left Eye Nine or any other Turkish members of the board. I was trying to pick a nationality that in fact DOES frequently immigrate to Scandanavia.

[Husar]

Tell you what, Sjakihata... instead of sounding like a smug hypocrite, let's suggest something... Take a million Turks into Sweden, have them dictate the right to bring as many additional Turks into Sweden as they care to, and have them change your national anthem to Turkish, then we'll talk. Until then, you're just talking out of both sides of your mouth.

Edit: No offense to Left Eye Nine or any other Turkish members of the board. I was trying to pick a nationality that in fact DOES frequently immigrate to Scandanavia.
Sjakihata is Danish, IIRC...~;)

What he says sounds right, but when the Europeans migrated to America the "Indians" also tried to defend their country. Now we have the Mexicans migrate to the US and the natives try to defend their country, let´s see who wins this time...:juggle2:

[Proletariat]

And then if a Turk rapes some Dane it should take nothing but a quick reminder of your country's Viking history for you to be silenced and have everything put back in to perspective.

[English assassin]

British music producer Adam Kidron says that when he came up with the idea of a Spanish-language version of the U.S. national anthem, he saw it as an ode to the millions of immigrants seeking a better life

Its not the immigrants you need to worry about DC, its us snaggle toothed tea drinkers.

[Tribesman]

it would appear that latino immigrants, no longer simply content to speak in Spanish, have made a new national anthem, in Spanish, 'based closely' on the Star Spangled Banner.

Don did you read the article you posted as your above statement doesn't fit the article at all ......British music producer Adam Kidron says that when he came up with the idea of a Spanish-language version of the U.S. national anthem, he saw it as an ode to the millions of immigrants seeking a better life. .....
So, to those of you who say 'they're not trying to take over'... let me ask you... when a forgeign invader starts altering your national symbols, and altering the are they still really 'just trying to get along?'

Oh I see so a legal English immigrant is now suddenly hispanic and is trying to take over your country by rewritting an adaptation of a British tune ....After all, he notes, American immigrants borrowed the melody of the "Star Spangled Banner" from an English drinking song.
....
Are you getting your knickers in a twist over nothing ?:laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:

[Proletariat]

This is hilarious. Why do we ever discuss any friction between nations? After all, if you just use history, everything just evens itself out and whoever's getting screwed prolly deserves it when you look back at the last few hundred years, right?

[Don Corleone]

Fair enough, my apologies to Swedes everywhere for the slur. Just kidding Sjakihata. But my point is still valid... I find it incredibly disingenous for a Dane, who comes from the European country with quite possibly the strictest immigration controls of all, to tell Americans that they're wrong for not wanting to completely abandon any sort of immigration controls.

Talk about double standards... We in Denmark are free to lock down as tight as we like, but you Americans must allow anyone that wants to come.... and then pay for their schooling, pay for their hospitals, pay their bills for them when they get unemployed, pay their kids welfare.........yeah, sure seems fair to me.

[Don Corleone]

The producer who arranged it is some Limey after a fast buck. But the singers are all Latinos. They have altered the words to express their political message, and they intend to play it as their anthem during the 'Day without Immigrants' on Monday. Laugh all you want Tribesman, I've been to Ireland, and you're not exactly blazing a path to enlightened immigration there, either.

[English assassin]

Pro-immigration protests are planned around the country for Monday, and the record label is urging Hispanic radio stations nationwide to play the cut at 7 p.m. EDT Friday in a sign of solidarity.

...publicity...stunt...

[Tribesman]

Hmmmmm....Are you getting your knickers in a twist over nothing ?
It seems that it certainly is a big nothing Don , or could you explain.....to tell Americans that they're wrong for not wanting to completely abandon any sort of immigration controls.

...where are there any proposals at all that have been put forward to completely abandon any sort of immigration controls ?
Are they in your imagination , like the hispanisc brit who is trying to take over your country ?

[Don Corleone]

What do you think these protests are all about Tribesman? They're not talking about enacting new laws to limit the numbers of immigrants coming into the country. They're talking about enforcing the current limits on the books. THAT'S what the Latinos in this country, and the Mexican government, for that matter, is protesting. If the US government was talking about cutting back the number of workers visas, they might have a point, but they're marching in the streets, because the government is 'talking' (not even doing yet) about possibly enforcing the laws in existence. And do you have any other tone then 'know-it-all'?

[Sjakihata]

Tell you what, Sjakihata... instead of sounding like a smug hypocrite, let's suggest something... Take a million Turks into Sweden, have them dictate the right to bring as many additional Turks into Sweden as they care to, and have them change your national anthem to Turkish, then we'll talk. Until then, you're just talking out of both sides of your mouth.


Yes, let's do that. That would probably annoy our neighbours very much, and no Denmark is not the capital of Sweden :laugh4:

What I mean is simply that the history of america has been forged by immigration, what gives you the right to stop it?

[Sjakihata]

Talk about double standards... We in Denmark are free to lock down as tight as we like, but you Americans must allow anyone that wants to come.... and then pay for their schooling, pay for their hospitals, pay their bills for them when they get unemployed, pay their kids welfare.........yeah, sure seems fair to me.

Oh, don't make the common mistake to associate the current danish government to the danish people, and inparticular me. I, for the record (since I have to defend myself), have been to 1000+ rallies, demos, conferences and God (probably dont) knows what, I am completely against the current danish line, after all, im an internationalist (building bridges from coast to coast, you know).

[Sjakihata]

And then if a Turk rapes some Dane it should take nothing but a quick reminder of your country's Viking history for you to be silenced and have everything put back in to perspective.

Im clueless to your intentions? What is your point? That vikings generally were raping more than the average army/militia at that given age? If so I think it is you who need a reminder of viking history.

Anyway, Im not critizing your history, Im actually quite proud of most of it. Im just highlighting history and that america would not have been what it currently is (for better or worse) and that the multiethnic society has brought prosperity to america, isnt curry wonderful?

[KukriKhan]

US national anthem's murky background illuminated:
http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a3_011.html

seems the lyrics and music have been 're-mixed' for quite some time.

[Sjakihata]

Talking about the American national anthem. Now I havent heard the spanish version nor have I bothered to read any of the links, but if an american can rape the anthem, like they did at the Superbowl, why cant a spaniard, mexican or a brit?

[Don Corleone]

That's not what I got out of your article Kukri:


In those times, folks often recycled good older melodies to use with new lyrics (for example, Maryland's state song uses the melody from "O Tannenbaum"), so no one minded that Scott Key used "To Anacreon in Heaven." Of course recycling melodies still happens today. Consider "The Barney Song," which uses the melody for "This Old Man." OK, so maybe you're not watching Barney so much anymore. How about Weird Al Yankovic's treasure chest of songs including "Smells like Nirvana" or "It's all about the Pentiums"? But even Weird Al knows, to recycle melodies today requires the use of finely-honed musical skills and the services of an excellent lawyer.

Key's lyrics circulated as a handbill, then were published in a Baltimore newspaper on Sept. 20, 1814. The song was designated the U.S. national anthem by executive order of President Woodrow Wilson in 1916. Following a 20-year effort during which more than 40 bills were introduced to Congress, the order was finally confirmed by Congress in 1931.

In other words, the melody for the Star Spangled Banner was borrowed from another, a fairly common practice in the 18th & 19th century. The lyrics, however, are as Key wrote them. Hmm....

And before anyone brings up "My Country T'is of Thee" versus "God Save the Queen", you have to remember, we were at war with Britain when it was written... which only proves my point. Co-opting our national anthem and changing the lyrics to suit their agenda proves that Latino immigrants are not interested in becoming American.

[Don Corleone]

Talking about the American national anthem. Now I havent heard the spanish version nor have I bothered to read any of the links, but if an american can rape the anthem, like they did at the Superbowl, why cant a spaniard, mexican or a brit?

What on Earth would have you believe that ANY of us were pleased, hell even tolerant, of what happened to the national anthem at the Superbowl? That was political correctness run amok, and just because the NFL (a non-governmental organization) screwed up the national anthem, doesn't mean it's open season for any and all to desecrate it.

This is a free country. Mr. Kidron and his friends have every right to alter the national anthem to say whatever they want it to say. As far as I know, there is no law against altering the lyrics. Free speech dictates that they have the right to sing it with whatever lyrics they want, Spanish or English. And exercising my own right to free speech, I state that the desire to use the national anthem to further their agenda of taking over only proves they DO NOT have peaceful intentions or a desire to integrate.

[KukriKhan]

I wasn't trying to take a side in this discussion, just to more fully inform it. Sorry if it seemed otherwise.


...Co-opting our national anthem and changing the lyrics to suit their agenda proves that Latino immigrants are not interested in becoming American.


is Don Corleone's central assertion here, I think. I submit, that such action happens frequently. I remember the furor over J.Hendix' no-lyrics rendition at Woodstock. Folks accused him of virtual blasphemy and desecration of a national symbol.

Has anyone found the full set of lyrics for this particular re-mix?

[Sjakihata]

Question: is the national anthem protected by any sort of law, like copyright, decreeing that no one is allowed to alter it? If so, there is a technical problem, if not - what is the problem?

[Tribesman]

What do you think these protests are all about Tribesman?
Well lets see , there was the new legislation that was passed ,then the new legislation that was not passed , the there were the amendments that were passed , and the amendments that were not passed , then there was the proposals for new legislation that is going forward and the proposals for legislation that were blocked . Then there is the costing and effectivness of it all ,then there are the implications of it all .

What do you think they are about ?:juggle2:
They're talking about enforcing the current limits on the books.
errr.....nope they are talking about many things Don , it is quite a complex subject , but one thing you will find that they are not talking about , no matter how much your state of outrage would like to pretend that they are talking about is ....to tell Americans that they're wrong for not wanting to completely abandon any sort of immigration controls.


Laugh all you want Tribesman, I've been to Ireland, and you're not exactly blazing a path to enlightened immigration there, either.
Now that is really funny Don , it wasn't very long ago in yet another immigration topic that you told me that Ireland didn't have an immigrant problem .:2thumbsup:
And guess what , the government bought in some really serious anti-illegal immigrant legislation , changed the constitution and changed the laws on citizenship . 'cos hey they are really serious about this . And the end result is complete bollox , scaring the population to get uneccesary measures passed, when all the had to do was enforce the existing laws:idea2:

And do you have any other tone then 'know-it-all'?
Well Don , its like this , when you post something that actually deals withthe facts on the topic rather than a rant about British hispanics taking over the country by producing a protest song , or people making America abandon all immigration controls , them maybe , just maybe I won't write that I know you are talking rubbish ~;)

[Devastatin Dave]

I'm all for them making a mockery of our anthem. I'm also happy they were holding up mexican flags and chanting "Mexico". This just shows the true nature of this problem and the real agenda of these parasites. They don't want "citizenship" or to assimulate. They want to make the United States, or atleast part of it, Mexico. Time to seal the borders, declare war on Mexico and act accordingly to this invasion force, and let them sing all they want their perversed version of our anthem. Shame on Mexico and the "undocumented workers". Come here legally and you're more than welcome, jump the border and no matter what some limp wristed liberal wants to label you with some PC nonsense, you're still a criminal.

[Sjakihata]

A brilliant offer to a solution, DevDave - if just politicians saw things as clearly and objectively as you do, no problems in the world would exist - there would be no world.

[Don Corleone]

Y, antes de me llamas un racisisto, debo decirte que hablo espanol bastante bien. Muchos veces, espanol es una lingua mejor a expresarse un concepto dificil porque espanol tiene menor significas doblas. Pero, donde se parre la pregunta de lingua? Porque no todos requiramos nuestros habitantes a hablar arabico, chino, frances y aleman en adicion a espanol? Porque no tenemos que permitir todos las personas de todo el mundo a venir a los Estados Unidos? A que razon pudemos parrar las personas de Africa de veniendo aqui? Al mismo razon que pudemos parrar todos de los immigrantes illegal de Mexico a veniendo aqui, nuestro soberano. Los personas de los Estados Unidos hacen las leyes de los estados unidos, no Mexico, no Irlandes y no Dinamarca. Este no es una pregunta de lingua or cultura, es una pregunta de soberano, y derechos. Si no pudemos decir quien puede venir aqui, y quien no puede, no podemos decir nada sobre nuestra existancia.

Translation:
And, before you call me a racist, I should tell you that I speak Spanish pretty well. Many times, Spanish is a better language for expressing difficult concepts, because Spanish has fewer double meanings. But, Where does the question of languages end? Why don't we require our inhabitants to learn Arabic, Chinese, French and German in addition to Spanish? Why don't we have to allow everyone from the entire world to come to the US, right now, if they want to? By what right can we stop people in Africa from coming to the US? By the same right that allows us to stop illegal immigrants from Mexico from coming here.... our sovereignty. The people of the United States make the laws of the United States: not Mexico, not Ireland and not Denmark. This isn't a question of language, or culture, it is a question of sovereignty and rights. If we cannot say who can come here, and who cannot, we cannot say anything about our own existence.

[Sjakihata]

we cannot say anything about our own existence.

This is probably the wisest thing that have been said in this thread so far.

[BigTex]

For the non-Spanish speakers among you, it would appear that latino immigrants, no longer simply content to speak in Spanish, have made a new national anthem, in Spanish, 'based closely' on the Star Spangled Banner. Apparently, some English language lines will be inserted in a version due out in June, scolding people who support immigration controls.

So, to those of you who say 'they're not trying to take over'... let me ask you... when a forgeign invader starts altering your national symbols, and altering the are they still really 'just trying to get along?'

It's OUR National Anthem now!!! (http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/04/27/D8H8LGDO0.html)

If they were translating the Star Spangled Banner into Spanish directly, I wouldn't have anywhere near the problem with this. But who gave them the right to alter it? We're supposed to just lay down and let Mexico dictate not only our immigration policies, but now also our national anthem is dictated to us by Mexcicans!

First of all a spanish version of our national anthem is not the anthem anymore. It is simply a spanish version of the Star Spangled Banner, with loads of political messages in it. Congress ordered in the 1830's the official national anthem, and it was in english. This is a complete mockery of our heritage, not only are the changing the Star Spangled Banner, but their throwing in their own message in it, its disgusting. The english composer should be ashamed, and don't tell me there wouldn't be an uproar if "god save the queen" was changed to french.

We are a country of immigrants, but it is not the immigrant that has made the USA. It is the meshing of all these immigrants, and their cultures to forge a new country a new idea a new culture the USA. These mostly illegal immigrants from mexico do not want to mesh, they want us to change for them, that is un-American.

[Don Corleone]

What do you think these protests are all about Tribesman?
Well lets see , there was the new legislation that was passed ,then the new legislation that was not passed , the there were the amendments that were passed , and the amendments that were not passed , then there was the proposals for new legislation that is going forward and the proposals for legislation that were blocked . Then there is the costing and effectivness of it all ,then there are the implications of it all .

Hmm, could you be any less specific? Talk about smoke and mirrors... The current proposals that the immigrants themselves are protesting are: 1) making illegal immigrants criminal 2) actually attaching some penalties to the act of crosssing the border without paperwork. If you've something more concrete to add from your wealth of experiences marching through the streets of LA, by all means, we'd love to hear it chief.


They're talking about enforcing the current limits on the books. errr.....nope they are talking about many things Don , it is quite a complex subject , but one thing you will find that they are not talking about , no matter how much your state of outrage would like to pretend that they are talking about is ....to tell Americans that they're wrong for not wanting to completely abandon any sort of immigration controls.

Yes, they are. Read the signs they're carrying. They want an open border. Any immigration control is intolerable in the minds of the protesters. Where are you getting your information from?


Laugh all you want Tribesman, I've been to Ireland, and you're not exactly blazing a path to enlightened immigration there, either.
Now that is really funny Don , it wasn't very long ago in yet another immigration topic that you told me that Ireland didn't have an immigrant problem .:2thumbsup:
And guess what , the government bought in some really serious anti-illegal immigrant legislation , changed the constitution and changed the laws on citizenship . 'cos hey they are really serious about this . And the end result is complete bollox , scaring the population to get uneccesary measures passed, when all the had to do was enforce the existing laws:idea2:
My point is, and was, you don't have anywhere near the immigration to your country that we do. You don't know the first thing about it. Yes, as a token to your EU moneymen, you've started some guest-worker visas for eastern Europeans, and funny thing about that... you're not the enlightened souls you claim to be. When we went out to dinner, the Irish folks were pretty nasty to the poor Czech girl who waited on us in Killarney. She said she was miserable and if it wasn't for the money, she'd go home immediately, because Irish people treat what few immigrants they have abominably. Hello pot:phonecall:, this is kettle, you're black


And do you have any other tone then 'know-it-all'?
Well Don , its like this , when you post something that actually deals withthe facts on the topic rather than a rant about British hispanics taking over the country by producing a protest song , or people making America abandon all immigration controls , them maybe , just maybe I won't write that I know you are talking rubbish ~;) Oh, this wasn't just about this thread... I don't think I've ever seen you be anything but smug, condescending and dismissive. I'm wondering out loud if anybody, anywhere ever has.

[SwordsMaster]

Its easy, just nuke Mexico. I mean, surely it is the mexican's government fault too. They must be chasing away the workers from the country to get to work themselves! Man! That is an EVIL plan!

And if you do not enforce your own laws, why write them?

[Don Corleone]

This is probably the wisest thing that have been said in this thread so far.

There you go. Strip each country of it's sovereignty, and let global anarchy commence. Brilliant, Sjakihata... you really know how to cut to the chase.

[solypsist]

i, for one, welcome our new mexican overlords

https://i3.tinypic.com/wlyixg.jpg

[Byzantine Prince]

So, to those of you who say 'they're not trying to take over'... let me ask you... when a forgeign invader starts altering your national symbols, and altering the are they still really 'just trying to get along?'
You might think too highly of your national symbols. They mean nothing, you should stand by your ideals instead of your symbols, whose meanings can be different with ever person or organization you ask.


Americans must allow anyone that wants to come.... and then pay for their schooling, pay for their hospitals, pay their bills for them when they get unemployed, pay their kids welfare.........yeah, sure seems fair to me.
You must be joking me. Take half that money you spend in Iraq on pretty no purpose and you have the best education, economic investment(for jobs), and health care in the world. America is pretty much empty in the enterior anyways, it doesn't cost you anything to spread out more and take advantage of all the wealth with cheap labour from Mexico. I don't see how this is different from Europeans and Africans coming to America, "legally".

And don't give me the "legal" crap. It's like saying if you want to become a citizen of Switzerland, all you have to do is immigrate there legally. :rolleyes: We both know how impossible that is.


It is the meshing of all these immigrants, and their cultures to forge a new country a new idea a new culture the USA. These mostly illegal immigrants from mexico do not want to mesh, they want us to change for them, that is un-American.
The Mexicans need time to assimilate. You can't expect wetbacks who got there last week to speak english and like Rock music and drink coca cola, or whatever else "American Culture" entails. Or need I remind you that Mexico is in America as well. :wall:

[Tribesman]

Poor Don , you talk about being specific , but you fall at the first fence .
1) making illegal immigrants criminal :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:

Stop while you are behind Don , as you are really clueless .
My point is, and was, you don't have anywhere near the immigration to your country that we do. You don't know the first thing about it. Yes, as a token to your EU moneymen, you've started some guest-worker visas for eastern Europeans,:no:
Ah the guest workers , they are not illegal are they .
Lets see last year alone the number of new guest workers amounted to over 10% of the entire existing population , so Don did your government legally let in over 27 million workers last year ?
They must have let in more than that as you say we don't have the immigration that you have .

[Don Corleone]

Poor Don , you talk about being specific , but you fall at the first fence .
1) making illegal immigrants criminal :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:

Laugh all you want, but that's what the big fighting point is right now. Some lawmakers in the Senate are propsing legislation to make crossing the border without proper paperwork a felony. Others are taking a comporomise stance and making it a misdemeanor. Others are holding firm against any law that makes 'undocumented immigrants' (if that term makes you feel better), and it's this position that the marchers in the streets are calling for. They want an open border, no limits, and help for those making the crossing. Laugh all you want, but at the end of the day, that's what this fight is all about... enforcing the laws on the books. The guest worker program, a reversal of the policy about babies born to illegals in this country... those are all side issues.


Stop while you are behind Don , as you are really clueless . If all you have is scorn & derision, you're not really adding anything. We all know you have plenty of that. Note that you managed to discuss how clueless I was, without one substantive statement to explain why.

As for Ireland's immigration issues: first, guest workers are NOT the same thing as immigrants. Guest workers aren't entitled to social services, and they go home at the end of a set period of time. According to the US Census bureau, in 2002, we had 33.1 million immigrants, or 11.5% of our population. They're here for as long as they want to be. They don't go home after a year or 2. As I said, you have nothing in your national experience to compare it to.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

A few points....

I agree with Don regarding the anthem.

Swords':

It is a de facto policy of the Mexican government to use illegal aliens as a revenue tool. Somewhere between 10 and 20 billion dollars annually are wired/carried back to Mexico from individuals working in the United States. These dollars directly address financial needs of the families in question (nothing wrong with that) but also constitute a means of easing the Mexican government's worries about poverty generating political unrest -- and all paid for by the USA without Mexico having to dip into its own revenues. A generation of Mexicans has grown up with the expectation that quite a number of them will jump the border to work in the USA -- it's become their norm (according to a recent poll of Mexican citizens). Mexico even has programs that conduct "desert survival" and other "crossing" education.

I'm even angrier with my own government at its complicity in this -- regardless of the party in power -- for the last 40 years. Mexico did not develop this policy without our tacit acceptance.

Don C.:

I recall one Tribesman post on Israel/Palestine that was a clear statement of position and suggested solution to the question (not really one I fully agreed with, but give him the credit he's due). I think he's actually pretty sharp in his assessment of things -- it's just that he enjoys ripping up other posts more than positing his own views. I do agree with you, however, that his normal "tone" is either condescending or dismissive -- which can get under one's skin a bit (though that is, after all, the goal).

[Don Corleone]

I think Tribesman is quite sharp. I don't agree with his assessment on things, but I'm not calling into question his intelligence. My comment was specifically related to the fact that I personally have never seen him be even remotely respectful of opinions he disagrees with. But hey, it's Friday. I should lighten up. ~:cheers:

[Tribesman]

Laugh all you want, but that's what the big fighting point is right now. Some lawmakers in the Senate are propsing legislation to make crossing the border without proper paperwork a felony. Others are taking a comporomise stance and making it a misdemeanor.
Thats more like it Don , completely different from 1) making illegal immigrants criminal
Now to some specifics regarding the felony bit , not just any felony , a federal felony .
So instead of just catching criminals and deporting them , you would have the expense of giving them a trial instead of just a brief hearing , and ofcourse you would have to incarcerate them while you waited for the trial (big backlog there don't ya think) then after the trial you have to imprison them , (imprisoning people in a federal penitentiary is expensive Don , not a very conservative program , what with the defecit and such) , then after their sentance is completed you deport them . Thats a very long winded time consuming process isn't it , much better to just enforce the laws as they stand don't ya think .
Also you have another problem , not a new one really it dates back to '96 ,you know the laws concerning foriegners who have committed crimes being deported , regardless of their legal or illegal status , once they have completed their sentance they must be deported , but many cannot be deported , yet cannot be released , so effectively they are recieving life sentances . I wonder how much it costs to keep an illegal in prison for the rest of their natural ?

and it's this position that the marchers in the streets are calling for. They want an open border, no limits, and help for those making the crossing.
Ah ...I see the problem there Don , you take the views of the few extremist groups who are protesting and apply them to all of the multitude of different groups , organisations and politicians that are protesting .
Thats not very clever is it . It is dodging the issue somewhat , just like dodging the multitude of different things being proposed or enacted that merit protest .


As for Ireland's immigration issues: first, guest workers are NOT the same thing as immigrants.
So that explains....Ah the guest workers , they are not illegal are they ~;)
Then of course there are also the citizens of the EU who are entitled to live and work anywhere they want over here , well apart from ares of the Gaeltacht which are introducing funny laws that need to be challenged (and are being challenged)
So you come forth with .....According to the US Census bureau, in 2002, we had 33.1 million immigrants, or 11.5% of our population. Wow , all those came in one year , thats amazing .
Oh ....but they didn't did they so its not really a comparison of like and like is it .:oops:

which can get under one's skin a bit (though that is, after all, the goal).
Too right Seamus:2thumbsup: thats the idea , give a little dig and see if the arguements put forth will stand up to any scrutiny and can be defended , or if they are just populist babble with little thought or content .

[Don Corleone]

Dude, you are so tiring. If I respond, I waste another 20 minutes of my life, arguing with somebody that will never admit they're wrong, even if they've come to that conclusion hours earlier. I don't respond, and you declare victory and claim my arguments were all hollow...

So be it, it's the game we play around here... Okay, I give. I'm a moron, and the great and wise Tribesman once again has proven his superior intellect and how stupid those yanks can be. But before I go, sir, before you begin your victory party, just a couple of questions.... I'm not bright enough to make actual statements with the likes of you around, so I'll limit myself and my humble little brain to just some simple questions, if you don't mind...

-How is debating attaching criminal pentalties to illegal immigration 'completely different' as you put it from making illegal immigrants criminal?

-Defending our borders costs money, as you rightly point out. So does maintaining a navy. Perhaps we should disband our entire military tomorrow to save money, as you seem to be recommending? Actually, when you come right down to it, a criminal justice system in general costs money, not just for illegal immigrants. Wouldn't it save yet more money, oh great and knowledgeable Tribesman, to just empty the prisons and disband our criminal justice system?

-I'm afraid that with my little brain I didn't get the point you were trying to make between guest workers and illegal immigrants. I suppose, since it was in reference to a statement I made about the Irish mistreating guest workers, that you're saying its okay to mistreat guest workers, but illegal immigrants deserve the best of treatment?

-I'm afraid I missed where I said all 33.1million arrive in 2002, but being as stupid as I am, I'm not surprised. Would you care to point out to me where I did?

-Likewise, I failed to see where you provided any numbers on the actual number for foreign nationals living in your country, just the numbers you allowed in for 1 year in a guest worker program. Maybe I'm so benighted that I just missed it. Could you repeat it for me please?

I'm sorry to trouble you and take up your time, Mr. Tribesman, sir. I'm sure somebody as wise and intelligent as you has better things to do with their time, so I sure do appreciate these learning sessions. They're probably the only hope for a ignoramus like me, if there's any hope to be had at all, that is.

[Tribesman]

How is debating attaching criminal pentalties to illegal immigration 'completely different' as you put it from making illegal immigrants criminal?

If something is already a crime then how on earth can it be "made" a crime ?

Defending our borders costs money, as you rightly point out.
Yep and its expensive , so why waste more money imprisoning people when you can just deport them , the money makes more sense being spent on improving border security and speeding up deportations than on keeping people in prison and slowing down deportations .

[Soulforged]

For the non-Spanish speakers among you, it would appear that latino immigrants, no longer simply content to speak in Spanish, have made a new national anthem, in Spanish, 'based closely' on the Star Spangled Banner. Apparently, some English language lines will be inserted in a version due out in June, scolding people who support immigration controls.

So, to those of you who say 'they're not trying to take over'... let me ask you... when a forgeign invader starts altering your national symbols, and altering the are they still really 'just trying to get along?' Actually it's "¡¡Callate!! ¡¡¡Este es nuestro país y nuestro himno nacional ahora!!!". I'm not a big lover of traditions and rules. Let's just say that if your traditions, and with that your entire culture, and even a mixture of languages, have to change, they'll change. It will become richer, actually, not poorer. I don't know what's the fear of loosing traditions, it seems so irrational...Like a judge said one time "They're trying to take faith out of our lives..." what the hell does that means? The american culture changed over the centuries as much as any other in the world, you shouldn't be afraid of it, you should be afraid of staying on the past. Besides your anthem is not gonna change, it will be translated, and if you like, it will penetrate even more hearts. What's your problem with that?

I mean I can understand the problem with the illegal immigrants messing up your economy, but legal immigrants "messing up" your culture?

[scooter_the_shooter]

They do mess up our culture, where do you think alot of our drugs are smuggled in from....mexico (how shocking:juggle2: ) by a latino gang called MS13, many of them are illegals.

[Don Corleone]

Soulforged, I have a deep respect and admiration for Latin American culture. Yes, the United States has been blessed to embrace it in the past, and will be blessed to continue to embrace it. Ustedes tienen mucho a darnos, y estaremos muy estupido a no aceptarlo. No se como a decir 'share' en espanol, but I meant share with us, not give to us.

But we have much here of value already. To show up and demand that the culture and language change to match that of the country you just left, and all existing other cultures be damned.... I'm sorry, I don't have much respect for that attitude.

The translation wasn't a direct translation. They changed some lines to change the meaning to suit their agenda.

[Divinus Arma]

https://img134.imageshack.us/img134/7227/flag3de.png (https://imageshack.us)

The invasion (http://www.jtf.org/sss.aztlan.america.gif).

more. (http://www.censusscope.org/us/print_map_hispanicpop.html)

Spreading. (http://www.mnforsustain.org/images/aztlan_desert_invasion.jpg)

MEChA (http://www.panam.edu/orgs/mecha/nat.html):


1) We are Chicanos and Chicanas of Aztlán reclaiming the land of out birth (Chicano and Chicana Nation); 2) Aztlán belongs to indigenous people, who are sovereign and not subject to a foreign culture; 3) We are a union of free pueblos forming a bronze nation; 4) Chicano and Chicana nationalism, as the key in mobilization and organization, is the common denominator to bring consensus to the Chicano and Chicana Movement; 5) Cultural values strengthen our identity as La Familia de La Raza; and 6) EPEDA, as a basic plan of Chicano and Chicana liberation, sought the formation of am independent national political party that would represent the sentiments of the Chicano and Chicana community.

MEChA Members:

Cruz Bustamante, Lt.Governor of California (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,95871,00.html)

Los Angeles Mayor VillaRaigosa (http://www.humaneventsonline.com/article.php?id=13863)



"For The Race everything. Outside The Race, nothing."

[Samurai Waki]

In Regards to Divinus Arma's statement: We need to put a few battalions of these on the border

https://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e177/Wakizashi1985/180px-M1A1_abrams_front.jpg

[Divinus Arma]

Interlocking fields of fire.

https://img236.imageshack.us/img236/3333/babeandreawithakdrummaghungari1.jpg (https://imageshack.us)

https://img57.imageshack.us/img57/7431/amy762fv.jpg (https://imageshack.us)

https://img222.imageshack.us/img222/2533/andreawith9mmhkatside6ie.jpg (https://imageshack.us)

[rotorgun]

Ellos estan muchos cabrones para deseando a cambiar nuestro Himno Nacional de Engles a Espanol!

Translation: They are a bunch of b_ s _ _ _ ds who wish to change our National Anthem from English to Spanish! :furious3:

For this I am now officially going to boycott Cinco de Mayo (5th of May), and eating at all Restaurantes Mexicanos (Mexican Restaurants) until my government builds the equivelant of a giant Hadrian's Wall:wall: along the Mexican border, and rounds up every illegal immigrant (Mexican, Muslim, Polish, German, Canadian, French, Irish, English, Scotch, Islamic Extremist Terrorist....well, you get the idea) in this country, and gives them an all expense paid trip back to their "pais"(country)

I know this means I will probably not be eating any Comidas Mexicanas (Mexican Food) until I die, but it's the price I must pay for my governments' inability to enforce its own laws. I would like to invite anyone who thinks that having the Star Spangled Banner sung in Espanol (except in Spain or Mexico at official ceremonies) to Besa mi coolo! (Kiss me where the sun don't shine!)

PS: Please forgive any mistakes in my Spanish translations, as English is my first languge, and I only learned Spanish in order to show respect, and converse with the legal latino immigrants (whom I truly respect) living in our country. I hope that they may become citizens if that is what they desire, and encourage them to do so. Buena suerte amigos! (Good luck freinds!) :2thumbsup:

PPS: Nice equipment those soldiers have.

[GoreBag]

Canada's had a French and English version of the national anthem for a while now, and, well, the world didn't end.

[Samurai Waki]

Its not so much that I care what language it is translated in. But when our cultural heritage is stomped into the ground for political gain is when I get a little peevish.

[Brenus]

“We need to put a few battalions of these on the border” Knowing the length of the border, you will need more than few battalions. And they are most needed some where else. And didn’t the US signed a treaty with Mexico for a Large Common Market?

[Marcellus]

Canada's had a French and English version of the national anthem for a while now, and, well, the world didn't end.

Surely that's because both English and French are official languages in Canada? Although the USA has no official language as such, de facto English is the (only) official language.

[Louis VI the Fat]

I was surprised when I first found out that nowhere in the constitution English is named the language of the US. Was it taken for granted, overlooked or was the idea to let natural selection take its course?

What about dealing when dealing with the government? Is one obliged by law to do so in English?

Can individual states enforce a language? The four southwest border states will at the current demographic rate have a Spanish majority within 25 years. Could they abolish English, make these states officially bilingual, or make Spanish an obligatory subject in schools?

[doc_bean]

I was surprised when I first found out that nowhere in the constitution English is named the language of the US. Was it taken for granted, overlooked or was the idea to let natural selection take its course?

There was some debate about it, I think the Pensilvanias (sp?) also proposed German (or was it Dutch ?) as a second language. I think they wanted top avoid EU like situations were every document has to be translated into several languages and every few years the debate about which languages should be used flares up again.

Also, early US was small governement, so this might have been seen as a minor point, not worth arguing about.


What about dealing when dealing with the government? Is one obliged by law to do so in English?

I was told that if you get arrested in the US you're rights have to be read to you in a language you understood. Don't know about other dealings with the government.

[solypsist]

the way some people are behaving you'd think someone had thrown a koran in the toilet.

oh wait, those guys are the nutty ones, as some people here were quick to point out while posturing their own superiority over such things.

[GoreBag]

Surely that's because both English and French are official languages in Canada? Although the USA has no official language as such, de facto English is the (only) official language.

Yeah, although certain parts of Canada speak very little French at all. Maybe certain states should adopt a Spanish version of the song, to be re-written, of course.

[lars573]

Only 2 are not officially English. Quebec (durr right) which is French first, and New Brunswick which is billingual. Also our French population has been here since day 1. We never haven't as yet had to go through the painful and multi-generational task of assimilating a new culture.

[Soulforged]

Soulforged, I have a deep respect and admiration for Latin American culture. Yes, the United States has been blessed to embrace it in the past, and will be blessed to continue to embrace it. Ustedes tienen mucho a darnos, y estaremos muy estupido a no aceptarlo. No se como a decir 'share' en espanol, but I meant share with us, not give to us.Se dice compartir. The attitude of this people also scares me in some way, they appear to be fundamentalist of some kind. However I still don't see any more than an irrational fear.

But we have much here of value already. To show up and demand that the culture and language change to match that of the country you just left, and all existing other cultures be damned.... I'm sorry, I don't have much respect for that attitude.I still don't understand where's the dramatic change that will force you to adapt a certain culture. Maybe you should learn spanish to adapt yourself to an inevitable change, but all other things can and will be shared. Your culture, again, will change even if you don't like it, legal immigrants can still run free to your lands and create any changes to your culture, as they please. Culture will not change by a single movement, a law, or anything of that kind, it will be long and subtle process of change. English became the most important language in the world, not only because it sounds cool, it's because you need it to do business, and I don't see any signs of that changing, wheter it's on the USA or outside.

The translation wasn't a direct translation. They changed some lines to change the meaning to suit their agenda.First, you cannot make a direct translation because it will have no rhyme. Second, even so, why monopolize the culture? Why a group of people should have the right to dictate to another group how they should dress, what they should sign, what's the anthem that they should respect? Perhaps it's time to change that attitude. I really don't care if my anthem changes, if we adapt the american culture and we stop drinking "mate", if it happens it will happen. I don't believe I've the power of the right to keep it like it was, to mantain traditions, to save the past from the future. And again, this is a question that goes beyond illegal immigration, your culture will change even if the immigrants are completely legal, is simply an human process, and we're ruled by humans, not by God, not by traditions, not by texts... I understand that some people will be incredibly reluctant to accept a change of their national anthem, is something that we learn to love, but still there's nothing more than an irrational fear in that. I had recently read an article of hispanoamericans in the USA. It appers that over the long decades of immigration, the hispanos have learned to take something from american culture that they find particulary appealing to them, that's consumism, patriotism, a healthy democratic attitude (learn to defend your rights, campaing to change something through vote,etc), between other things, but they always keep something from their culture, and that eventually provoques a change in their neighborgs, this will continue to spread.

Canada's had a French and English version of the national anthem for a while now, and, well, the world didn't end.Exactly. Canada is one the best known proof that mixtures of languages does not means the end of the world. The people form a country, not traditions, not laws, not state...

Surely that's because both English and French are official languages in Canada? Although the USA has no official language as such, de facto English is the (only) official language.Surely you'll agree that if two official languages don't mean chaos, then monopolizing languages is not a very healthy or reasonable attitude from the government. I still want to know how many hispanos there's on the USA, that's the single most important thing to determine a lot of things in this thread.
EDIT: "Hispanics of any race 14.1%, or 41.3 million." It doesn't seem too big. And still it provoques changes. Seriously, I don't think that this movements will do any more noise than what they're doing now, perhaps when the hispanic popullation reaches %40, then we'll be talking. Of course in this census the illegal immigrants are not included.

[GoreBag]

Only 2 are not officially English. Quebec (durr right) which is French first, and New Brunswick which is billingual. Also our French population has been here since day 1. We never haven't as yet had to go through the painful and multi-generational task of assimilating a new culture.

I disagree. The French Canadians are still dealing with assimilation problems. Even if I do live in an officially English province, we still sing the national anthem in that half-English, half-French medley, and I imagine other places do too (Manitoba, notably).

[Louis VI the Fat]

The French Canadians are still dealing with assimilation problems. Gah, the problem is that the English didn't assimilate to the French. Canada had been French for two centuries, until it was overrun by the English. Who, much like the latino's at present, won the demographic race and tried to impose their language and culture on an already existing nation.

*shamelessly disregards the native Americans*

[lars573]

I disagree. The French Canadians are still dealing with assimilation problems. Even if I do live in an officially English province, we still sing the national anthem in that half-English, half-French medley, and I imagine other places do too (Manitoba, notably).
The problem is that for 200 years the English tried to stamp out the French via strangulation. Then 40 years ago the English majority went "You can be French it's cool." Both groups are still adapting to the new reality that we are going to coexist without one stamping on the other.

[Strike For The South]

This angers me assainslte its not that hard:furious3:

[Tribesman]

oh wait, those guys are the nutty ones,
Stop it Soly , how dare you . Ok fair enough some people wish to focus ona small group of extremist nuts to labbel every possible protest down to a bunch of nuts as it makes it easier to dodge the issue , but that is their right ,just like it is everone elses right to turn round and say they is talking bollox .
It is exactly the same as taking a statement from the Aryan nations and saying "this is the viewpoint" .

Don my darling (but not in a gay way~;) Hello pot, this is kettle, you're black


How exactly?
You came across some dumb bog-trotter (yes that is offensive and I use the expression very often towards racist gobshites at work or down the pub) down in Killarney ,who probably considers people from the next parish as foriegners , or even people from the other end of the same parish as creatures with two heads .
And try and corelate it to my statements .... well sorry but in that concern this pot or kettle is working on clean electric and ain't getting tarnished by smoke .
So try something else , it is always possible to come back from the backfoot , as long as you stop insisting that the backfoot is really the frontfoot .

Edit to add ..This angers me assainslte its not that hard
well its clearly too hard to undertand Strike , what does assainslte mean ?

[Louis VI the Fat]

[Edit to add ..This angers me assainslte its not that hard
well its clearly too hard to undertand Strike , what does assainslte mean ?
1 - It's a reply to (English) Assassin.
2 - Assainslte is Spanglish slang which we're not expected to understand anyway.
3 - Ainslte is his boyfriend, who can't get it up: "This angers me ass, Ainslte. It's not that hard".

[Soulforged]

1 - It's a reply to (English) Assassin.
2 - Assainslte is Spanglish slang which we're not expected to understand anyway.
3 - Inslte is his boyfriend, who can't get it up: "This angers me ass, Inslte. It's not that hard".
LOL.:laugh4:

It is exactly the same as taking a statement from the Aryan nations and saying "this is the viewpoint" .We share the same vission I see.:2thumbsup:

[Strike For The South]

assimallate. is everyone happy

[Banquo's Ghost]

assimallate. is everyone happy

Not really, though I think I can guess now. I find this inability to communicate hilarious in the context of a thread on the 'ownership' of language. :laugh4:

[Devastatin Dave]

Man I went to MCD's today for lunch. Not only could I understand the cashier, but I got my food fast and accurately. These mexicans need to protest the other 364 days of the year!!! God bless those protestors, keep up the good work!!!:2thumbsup:

[Byzantine Prince]

:furious3: taik arr jooobs! :furious3:

[Vladimir]

Man I went to MCD's today for lunch. Not only could I understand the cashier, but I got my food fast and accurately. These mexicans need to protest the other 364 days of the year!!! God bless those protestors, keep up the good work!!!:2thumbsup:

Huh, so I'm not the only one that noticed this? Fast food service has been declining but out here with the hispanic workers it's horrible. I asked for a water at least a couple of times and the chick gave me coffee. WTMF? That was just one of a long string of related and crappy service incidents at that restaurant and others.

[GoreBag]

The problem is that for 200 years the English tried to stamp out the French via strangulation. Then 40 years ago the English majority went "You can be French it's cool." Both groups are still adapting to the new reality that we are going to coexist without one stamping on the other.

Yeah, that's about right, if only ignoring the Acadians a little. Giving me the timeline to the culture relations doesn't invalidate my point, though.

[Brenus]

“Then 40 years ago the English majority went "You can be French it's cool."
Hum, and also few bombs and terrorism from the French Canadians if I remember well.
This text is coming from a probably pro-independence site. However, the chronoly of the 1970’s is correct.

“By the time the 1960s arrived, French culture and language was under assault in Quebec. Many people of French heritage in Quebec couldn’t speak the language; the Roman Catholic Church was under assault, as were the French institutions such as education and law that were fundamentally different from those of their Anglo counterparts. Must as the United States had its own Cultural Revolution in the 1960s, Quebec did as well. In Quebec, there was a revival of the French language and French culture. This revolution naturally led to a revival of Quebec nationalism. This Quebec nationalism was fuelled by the 1967 visit of French President Charles de Gaulle when he proclaimed “Vive le Quebec Libre!” (Long Live Free Quebec!). This led to the founding of the separatist Parti Quebecois by Rene Levesque. Two years later, militants create a crisis in Quebec during which civil liberties were suspended in Quebec. A bombing campaign, the kidnapping of a British diplomat, and other events led to this. This was really the high point of anti-Unionist violence in Quebec.
Following the turbulent early seventies, the movement toward Quebec independence grew more peaceful. In 1980, there was a referendum for Quebec independence. Though it failed by a 3-2 margin, it showed that there was in fact significant support for an independent Quebec state (nearly half of the French-speaking Quebecois voted in favour of independence). At this point, the rest of Canada realized that secession was a real possibility. Proposals were initiated that would amend Canada’s 1982 Constitution that would recognize Quebec as a distinct society within Canada. In 1987, this Meech Lake Accord was drafted. However, in 1990, this Meech Lake Accord failed to gain ratification. It was at this point that many Quebec nationalists vowed that Quebec would in fact gain its independence.
In 1994, Jacques Parizeau won the premiership (governorship) of Quebec on a platform of promising a referendum on Quebec independence. This vote occurred in 1995. In the weeks leading up to the referendum, polls were indicating that the people of Quebec would in fact vote for independence. At that point, government owned agencies (including Air Canada) offered pro-Unionists incentives to go and vote for continued union with Canada. As a result of this corruption on the pro-Union side, the referendum was defeated by a 50.6 to 49.4% margin. I remember at that time, as a Quebecois-American, the despair that both myself felt as well as friends of mine in Athens who were natives of Quebec. We thought that our homeland would finally be free, but alas the Unionists plotted to keep Quebec firmly under the yoke of Canada.
Quebec is indeed a nation. The people of Quebec speak a different language, practice a different religious faith, have different legal and educational institutions, and have a different culture than the rest of Canada. This certainly is enough to define Quebec as a nation. As a forced member of Canada, it can also be classified as a captive-nation. This is much the same status that was granted the nations captured by the Soviet Union during the Cold War. Until Quebec achieves its independence from Canada, it will continue to be a captive nation and will be an abomination to the North American continent until it finally is able to claim its independence and join the global family of free and independent nations.
VIVE LE QUEBEC LIBRE!!!”

[Proletariat]

I couldn't give a damn about the sanctity of the Queen's english, but anyone who knowingly purchases anything from any business that hires these illegals is an out right scab.


"The meat packers are confirming what we know," says University of Maryland economics professor Peter Morici, "and that is that this large group of illegal aliens in the United States is lowering the wage rate of semiskilled workers, people who are high school dropouts or high school graduates with minimal training."

In fact, a meat-packing job paid $19 an hour in 1980, but today that same job pays closer to $9 an hour, according to the Labor Department. That's entirely consistent with what we've been reporting -- that illegal aliens depress wages for U.S. workers by as much as $200 billion a year in addition to placing a tremendous burden on hospitals, schools and other social services.

Radicalism is not confined to Gutierrez and Latino Movement USA. Ernesto Nevarez of the L.A. Port Collective is promising to shut down the Port of Los Angeles today: "[Transportation and commerce] will come to a grinding halt. ...They are going to put a wall along the border with Mexico. We're going to put a wall between us and the ocean. And those containers ain't going to move."

http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/05/01/dobbs.immigrantprotests/

ROFL, you can thank the party that's supposed to be protecting the little guys from the evil capitolists for the bolded text. Way to out do the Republicans with whoring your own principles and ideals. Next they'll be clamoring for another minimum wage hike!

:wall:

[GoreBag]

“Then 40 years ago the English majority went "You can be French it's cool."
Hum, and also few bombs and terrorism from the French Canadians if I remember well.
This text is coming from a probably pro-independence site. However, the chronoly of the 1970’s is correct.

“In 1994, Jacques Parizeau won the premiership (governorship) of Quebec on a platform of promising a referendum on Quebec independence. This vote occurred in 1995. In the weeks leading up to the referendum, polls were indicating that the people of Quebec would in fact vote for independence. At that point, government owned agencies (including Air Canada) offered pro-Unionists incentives to go and vote for continued union with Canada. As a result of this corruption on the pro-Union side, the referendum was defeated by a 50.6 to 49.4% margin. I remember at that time, as a Quebecois-American, the despair that both myself felt as well as friends of mine in Athens who were natives of Quebec. We thought that our homeland would finally be free, but alas the Unionists plotted to keep Quebec firmly under the yoke of Canada.”

Yeah, the bias is obvious.

[The Wizard]

I am undecided on the matter, I must say... as far as I am concerned someone doesn't have to learn the official tongue of the state he emigrated to, as long as he is prepared to be very limited in his ability to partake in public life.

However -- is this public or private life? I don't know yet...

[Crazed Rabbit]

Except, they demand government services in spanish.

Crazed Rabbit

[BigTex]

Except, they demand government services in spanish.

Crazed Rabbit

They also demand that the local businesses speak spanish also. They've sue'd because state forms in Texas were not printed in spanish, and might I remind you English is the official language of the Great State of Texas. Now their demanding that they receive amnesty. And todays theres this wonderful protest called the "day without the criminals", nothing like millions of these idiots walking out on all those jobs they've come here for. Apparently they think that congress will help those they don't represent.

I sure hope my faith in my countries laws are restored and patty wagons start showing up at these "protests". The jobs almost done for Ice and the local government, all they have to do is round them into cars and move them back to mexico.

[lars573]

Yeah, that's about right, if only ignoring the Acadians a little. Giving me the timeline to the culture relations doesn't invalidate my point, though.
And I'm saying that the assimilation of bilingualism is going to have to be done by both sides.


Hum, and also few bombs and terrorism from the French Canadians if I remember well.
Actually the bombs and terrorism came after the first billingual act of parliment.

Taken from the Government of Canada's website. http://www.canadianheritage.gc.ca/progs/lo-ol/biling/hist_e.cfm


1969

Following the work of the Commission, the first Official Languages Act is adopted by Parliament. Its three main objectives are:
the equality of English and French in Parliament, within the Government of Canada, the federal administration and institutions subject to the Act;
the preservation and development of official language communities in Canada ;
the equality of English and French in Canadian society.

New Brunswick enacts its first Official Languages Act , making it Canada 's first, and only, officially bilingual province.

EDIT:Also Quebec is not a viable independant nation.

[Kaiser of Arabia]

Hail Presidente Fox! Viva la Mexico! Viva Santa Ana!
*does Mexican Hat dance and eats a taco*

See? I'm assimilating already

[Soulforged]

Except, they demand government services in spanish.
At this point you've two courses of action, deportation or assimilation, giving up to their demands. However I don't think that the first is reasonable. The second is reasonable to a certain point, what you say they are demanding is too much, since the hispanic popullation doesn't pass from %20 of the total. Ok, even I would agree that they've crossed a certain sane limit.

[doc_bean]

So how was No-Mexican-Labour-Day ?

[BigTex]

So how was No-Mexican-Labour-Day ?

It was a great day, people actually came into the store who could speak english. Only had fired 3 dumbarses yesterday for not showing up. It was also very quite on the roads which was a wonderful change. Now if this is how it would be without criminal immigrants then I say wonderful, lets get them the heck out of here and the sooner the better. Yesterday was one incredibly stressless day, without having to play the guess what I'm trying to say game, or hassle with traffic.

[Samurai Waki]

Well I've always wanted to be a sexy latino, like Antonio Banderas (who really is Spanish and Not Latino) but all the same. I guess my dreams are becoming realized, I'm just going to have to start taking Spanish in College next year and work on my accent. Then the Ladies will be mine (after I get shot by my Girlfriend).

[lars573]

Well I've always wanted to be a sexy latino, like Antonio Banderas (who really is Spanish and Not Latino) but all the same. I guess my dreams are becoming realized, I'm just going to have to start taking Spanish in College next year and work on my accent. Then the Ladies will be mine (after I get shot by my Girlfriend).
Don't forget to knock her up first.~;)

[Redleg]

So how was No-Mexican-Labour-Day ?

A media write up on it.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060502/ap_on_re_us/immigration_boycott_day;_ylt=ApHaMnCkcWHBse62Rw3_0ZMXIr0F;_ylu=X3oDMTA3MjBwMWtkBHNlYwM3MTg-

What I find somewhat humorous is that where I work the workforce consists of roughly 30% Hispanic, all meeting the citizenship (as I must also) or are documented immirgants with a legal right to work in the United States. And none of them called in for the boycott day.

In fact several of the recently immigrants who have gained their citizenship through the correct process - think that the issue is being way overblown by those who need to follow the process, and not make demands because they came here illegally.

Interesting discussion I had with one of them. I wonder if there will be a split in the immigration issues posed by the Hispanic community if such protests continue?

[Beirut]

EDIT:Also Quebec is not a viable independant nation.

(Sorry. OT)

I disagree, Quebec is extremely viable as an independent nation. It is the size of half of Europe, has tremendous natural resources, top notch hospitals, universities, economic and political infrastructures, a world class work force with first rate aerospace and computer industries, as well as a vibrant and healthy culture and artistic community.

On the other hand, viability as an independent nation does not mean it should be one. Many states and provinces would do fine as independent countries. BC, Alberta, California, Texas, to name a few. But their being part of a greater whole is better. Though that viewpoint appears to be subjective to many.

[BHCWarman88]

For the non-Spanish speakers among you, it would appear that latino immigrants, no longer simply content to speak in Spanish, have made a new national anthem, in Spanish, 'based closely' on the Star Spangled Banner. Apparently, some English language lines will be inserted in a version due out in June, scolding people who support immigration controls.

So, to those of you who say 'they're not trying to take over'... let me ask you... when a forgeign invader starts altering your national symbols, and altering the are they still really 'just trying to get along?'

It's OUR National Anthem now!!! (http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/04/27/D8H8LGDO0.html)

If they were translating the Star Spangled Banner into Spanish directly, I wouldn't have anywhere near the problem with this. But who gave them the right to alter it? We're supposed to just lay down and let Mexico dictate not only our immigration policies, but now also our national anthem is dictated to us by Mexcicans!



Don, Sjakihata,

these people are Aliens. They came here Illgealy,rather you people want to admit it or not. They crying like Babies to make them US Citizins.. They sohlud come here the Legal and Right Way, Just like Everyone,or Most people did. if not,mabye we should just shoot them or something.

[Louis VI the Fat]

these people are Aliens. They came here Illgealy,rather you people want to admit it or not. They crying like Babies to make them US Citizins.. They sohlud come here the Legal and Right Way, Just like Everyone,or Most people did. if not,mabye we should just shoot them or something.Oops, looks like you posted in the wrong thread. (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=63332)

[Beirut]

if not,mabye we should just shoot them or something.

A lovely sentiment. Please don't share it with us again.

[Kaiser of Arabia]

So, Raul....er... Beirut, how is it up in Quebec? Have you guys started the Canadian Civil War yet ~:)

[Beirut]

So, Raul....er... Beirut, how is it up in Quebec? Have you guys started the Canadian Civil War yet ~:)

Care to expand upon that?

[Divinus Arma]

I couldn't give a damn about the sanctity of the Queen's english, but anyone who knowingly purchases anything from any business that hires these illegals is an out right scab.



http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/05/01/dobbs.immigrantprotests/

ROFL, you can thank the party that's supposed to be protecting the little guys from the evil capitolists for the bolded text. Way to out do the Republicans with whoring your own principles and ideals. Next they'll be clamoring for another minimum wage hike!

:wall:

Great contribution Proly. I completely agree. Americans are gettin it...

One in the pink, and one in the stink.

[AntiochusIII]

So, Raul....er... Beirut, how is it up in Quebec? Have you guys started the Canadian Civil War yet ~:)There's no Canadian Civil War event in HOI2...

Damn I want one, curse those bloody partisans! All the bloodshed with the USA and a march on Washington only for a Canadian revolt to break it all down...

Sorry, the Doomsday fever got me bad.

Of this thread I have not so much to say, but that there is an incredible amount of idiocy expressed by normally-wise members of this intelligent community. Anything else I've said would've been equally worthless except for a statement that I truly doubt there is even a clear position taking by "either side of the fence," and that it is just all loud stuff for fun in the news and on the streets, created by increasing tension and all that crap, a good habit for Democracy! Actually it really is!

How disappointing... :no:

By the way, the funniest thing of all this was when I (more accurately, my mom, while I'm playing...er...Doomsday) was watching CNN with that Anderson Cooper guy reporting and all the flags of colourful nature, be it the stars and stripes or the green and red that reminds me of Italy, were flying around in the background, a classic Che Guevara flag was waved around and filled out the background! :laugh4:

[Divinus Arma]

Removed. Not my place or the proper way to do business. :bow:

[Beirut]

I love you lumberjack...

https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v298/horsesass/brokeback-mountain-9.jpg

[lars573]

(Sorry. OT)

I disagree, Quebec is extremely viable as an independent nation. It is the size of half of Europe, has tremendous natural resources, top notch hospitals, universities, economic and political infrastructures, a world class work force with first rate aerospace and computer industries, as well as a vibrant and healthy culture and artistic community.

On the other hand, viability as an independent nation does not mean it should be one. Many states and provinces would do fine as independent countries. BC, Alberta, California, Texas, to name a few. But their being part of a greater whole is better. Though that viewpoint appears to be subjective to many.
Take away Montreal and what's left?

[Fragony]

Kewl, america is becomming just like europe :laugh4:

[Beirut]

Take away Montreal and what's left?

An enormous land mass with huge amounts of fresh water, plenty of excellent farm land, almost immeasurable natural resources, and roughly four million people to take advantage of it.

To be honest, you'd have to be an idiot not to be able to make a country out of Quebec.

[BigTex]

Originally posted by BHCWarman88
if not,mabye we should just shoot them or something.


Originally posted by BigTex
That would be to costly. In Iraq for every enemy killed there's and expenditure of 200,000 bullets. Now there's 20 million illegal immigrants in the USA. So for the sake of argument say there's a 10,000 to 1 kill/bullet ratio, that would require 2,000,000,000,000 bullets. Each round of M-16 5.56mmx45mm ammunition costs around .52 cents. The total cost would come to $1,040,000,000,000 just to get rid of the current number of illegals in this country. Thats not including the people who will try to cross in the future. Unfeasible to shoot them all.

Now Tribesman did mention something about Zyclon B though you might be interested in.

It seems like the sentiments from those in Europe or in the Northeast are this problem is just occurring now. Well it hasnt, the problem has been in the south western states for over a decade. Its only now that its nationally known problem. Monday was quite a nice day, I'd just wish it was like this the rest of the time.

https://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e331/Thammure/brokeback-mountain-9.jpg

Everybody loves BigTex.

[Beirut]

Now Tribesman did mention something about Zyclon B though you might be interested in.



Gentlemen,

Please leave mass shootings and Zyclon B out of discussions pertaining to identifiable groups of people.

[lars573]

An enormous land mass with huge amounts of fresh water, plenty of excellent farm land, almost immeasurable natural resources, and roughly four million people to take advantage of it.

To be honest, you'd have to be an idiot not to be able to make a country out of Quebec.
That is why Quebec could never be made into a viable country. The seperatist leaders are all idiots.

[Devastatin Dave]

Well, the Beaner in Chief sang the Anthem in Spanish during his campaign to lie his way back into power....
http://www.drudgereport.com/flash7.htm
Face it, neither party is going to do anything about this invasion, instead they'll just change the subject to Bird Flu, abortion, flag burning, dwarf tossing, or some other imaginary outrage that the media can masterbate to in order to distract the public from the real problems in our everyday lives. Yawn...

[Divinus Arma]

DD, not if we keep up the heat. This is not a fly-by-night issue. Honestly, how long have you been informed and angry about illegal immigration? I have been pissed for years.

The chief complaint I hear now is but there is nothing I can do.

Yes there is. Send a quick email to your house representative and both Senators, as well as Frist and Boehner. Then, and equally as important, tell everyone you know who cares to do the same thing. Make sure that they also tell everyone they know, and so on.

If all of us who actually careed stopped whining and started doing something, the politicians would hear the low roar.

I already wrote my congresswoman, Bill Frist, and John Boehner and let them know that if they vote for temporary worker status that does not force illegals to return home first, then I will ditch the GOP and stay out of policy until someone sounds the trumpets that I want to hear.

There is one answer to this problem: (1) Punish employers so heavily that they will be truly scared to employ illegals. Concentrate on internal enforcement. This takes care of the demand for labor. (2) Conduct actual regulation of the border. Build a wall (physical or tech-based) and stop the inflow. This stops the anchor baby droppers. (3) Open opportunities for legal immigration. This way we get the labor we need from people who want to be Americans.


Get vocal, get involved, and get others to join you. We can still save our country.

[Devastatin Dave]

Yes there is. Send a quick email to your house representative and both Senators, as well as Frist and Boehner. Then, and equally as important, tell everyone you know who cares to do the same thing. Make sure that they also tell everyone they know, and so on.


My senators are Turbin Durbin and Barrack "Osama" Obama. They have my IP blocked!!!:laugh4:

[Louis VI the Fat]

DD, not if we keep up the heat.Aye, that seems the only way.

For many white and Afro-Americans, (illegal) immigration has been just another issue. Like Bird Flu, abortion, flag burning or dwarf tossing indeed. Most won't base their vote on this particular issue.

For Latino-Americans this issue is much higher on the list. One of the key issues on which they base their political allegiance. Combine that with them being concentrated in a handful of key states - California, Texas and Florida are steadily becoming unwinnable without the Latino vote - and it becomes clear how some ten to twelve percent of the electorate can hijack an issue against the wishes of a vast majority of the remaining ninety percent.

The reluctancy which both parties have shown over this issue is entirely rational. The only way out is indeed what you suggested - to get more vocal, to turn up the heat and keep it up.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Don't forget to knock her up first.~;)

I didn't know Wakizashi was from West Virginia.....


:laugh4: :laugh4: Couldn't resist.

[lars573]

Hey, you gotta have a damn good reason before you plug someone. :inquisitive:

I mean "Argh you took $5 without asking!" *BLAM*, uh no.


"Argh you made me an unwed mother at 17!!", then it's time to stack the 9 and go for the knees. *As if you hit him below the waist it's not attempted murder. :idea2:

[Redleg]

Hey, you gotta have a damn good reason before you plug someone. :inquisitive:

I mean "Argh you took $5 without asking!" *BLAM*, uh no.


"Argh you made me an unwed mother at 17!!", then it's time to stack the 9 and go for the knees. *As if you hit him below the waist it's not attempted murder. :idea2:

Actually you don't need a damn good reason to shot someone. You only need a good reason if you don't want to go to jail.

And whoever told you about shooting someone below the waste does not equate to attempted murder needs to check the statues based upon country and in the United States by state. Attempted murder has different definitions by legal jursidication.

[Strike For The South]

At this point you've two courses of action, deportation or assimilation, .

No these people are here illegaly. They arent citzens they do not share the same rights. Now deporting them may be a pipe dream but if we crack down on buisnesses like there is no tommorow they wont be able to get jobs and they will leave or become 11 million homeless people then the poloticans will be forced to do something

[Samurai Waki]

I didn't know Wakizashi was from West Virginia.....


:laugh4: :laugh4: Couldn't resist.

Grrr. I'll knock you up. I um mean...:help:

Vinnie get the test tubes. we have to expirement.

[lars573]

Actually you don't need a damn good reason to shot someone. You only need a good reason if you don't want to go to jail.

And whoever told you about shooting someone below the waste does not equate to attempted murder needs to check the statues based upon country and in the United States by state. Attempted murder has different definitions by legal jursidication.
You need to get yourself a real sense of humour stat! And get a real justice system where the same laws apply everywhere.

[Redleg]

You need to get yourself a real sense of humour stat! And get a real justice system where the same laws apply everywhere.

LOL -

The pot calling the kettle black....

[lars573]

Hey this immigration thing needs some levity. Wakizashi started it I say we keep going.

[Redleg]

Hey this immigration thing needs some levity. Wakizashi started it I say we keep going.

LOL nice try

[lars573]

It was wasn't it.

[GoreBag]

One in the pink, and one in the stink.

Doesn't sound so bad...

[BHCWarman88]

No these people are here illegaly. They arent citzens they do not share the same rights. Now deporting them may be a pipe dream but if we crack down on buisnesses like there is no tommorow they wont be able to get jobs and they will leave or become 11 million homeless people then the poloticans will be forced to do something


Extacly. if you can't realize these people are here Illegaly and don't have the same rights as us, tell me why we should go easy on them?