"Iran can also be wiped off the map" -Israel

[Divinus Arma]

Linky (http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1145961301962&pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull)


Vice Premier Shimon Peres said Monday that "the president of Iran should remember that Iran can also be wiped off the map."


Good for Israel. Stand up to that bully.

[Reenk Roink]

Wipe them both off, USA and Russia...:2thumbsup:

:yes: - :russia: :unitedstates:

:no: - :israel: :iran:

It's funny though, Iran is seen as "standing up to that bully" in the Muslim world, and Israel is here...

[Joker85]

Linky (http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1145961301962&pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull)




Good for Israel. Stand up to that bully.

Right on.

[Papewaio]

As long as Iran walks the line of hostile but does not act, guess who is getting the worst side of the bargin?

USA and China as they are importing a lot of oil.

While Russia and Iran are supplying a whole lot of oil.

So a little bit of belligerence adds a couple of billion to the income of all the oil producers.

[Hurin_Rules]

Good for Israel. Stand up to that bully.

So you're saying the bully is the one WITHOUT the nuclear weapons? :dizzy2:

[Joker85]

So you're saying the bully is the one WITHOUT the nuclear weapons? :dizzy2:

I think he's saying the bully is the one who began threatening to wipe a nation off the map, to which Isreal just responded "that can work both ways".

[Reenk Roink]

I think he's saying the bully is the one who began threatening to wipe a nation off the map, to which Isreal just responded "that can work both ways".

Actually, before that comment, Israel threatened to preemptively strike Iran like it did Iraq in the 80's...

Needless to say, there is a lot of history between the two...

[Divinus Arma]

I think he's saying the bully is the one who began threatening to wipe a nation off the map, to which Isreal just responded "that can work both ways".

Pretty much. Israel does nothing but seeks its own survival. Israeli foreign policy does not included a stated goal of "The destruction of Iran". However, Iran does have a stated policy goal of "the destruction of Israel".

Preemptive strikes by Israel are in the interest of its survival. They don't seek to "wipe Iran off the map", or dream of "a world without Iran".

[Byzantine Prince]

A premeptive strike will not stop a nuclear Iran. They have a huge country. If Israel attacks first, they lose. If Iran attacks first, Israel loses. One bomb can oblitarate everyone in Israel.

These are big words coming from Pervez. No one can wipe off Iran.

[Soulforged]

Good for Israel. Stand up to that bully.I only hope this doesn't pass from mere words. Another thing, we're not talking about you or me standing against an individual bully, we're talking about international relationships, words matter a lot more in that enviorament.

[Hurin_Rules]

Israel does nothing but seeks its own survival.

I can think of a few million Palestinians who would vociferously disagree.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

I can think of a few million Palestinians who would vociferously disagree.

...with anyone, about nearly any subject, on a virtually constant basis. If they were any less "together" they'd be Democrats.

[Redleg]

I only hope this doesn't pass from mere words. Another thing, we're not talking about you or me standing against an individual bully, we're talking about international relationships, words matter a lot more in that enviorament.

:oops: Careful now you are about to enter into an area that you normally argue against. :laugh4:

The power of words.....

[Devastatin Dave]

I can think of a few million Palestinians who would vociferously disagree.
But then they could be matyrs which I'm sure they'd enjoy while the melting occured.

[Soulforged]

:oops: Careful now you are about to enter into an area that you normally argue against. :laugh4:

The power of words.....I was expecting this Red.:help: Let's no ruin the thread with another subject...By the way I can still save myself but this is not the place.:2thumbsup:

[Redleg]

I was expecting this Red.:help: Let's no ruin the thread with another subject...By the way I can still save myself but this is not the place.:2thumbsup:

This thread is about the use of language.....

[GoreBag]

I'm gonna go with the underdog. Come on, Iran, don't take that from the new kid just because he has big friends.

[LeftEyeNine]

*Next door neighbor knocks the ceiling and the floor with a mop. That is too much noise..

[Bar Kochba]

what actual effect would the missle have how much of israel can it take out

[Avicenna]

A city or two, I'd guess. Iran doesn't have hydrogen bombs or anything.. just WWII era nukes max I'd say.

[Ser Clegane]

Uhm ... actually Iran does not have any nukes at all ... yet (at least that seems to be the consensus of all involved parties)

[Xiahou]

Actually, before that comment, Israel threatened to preemptively strike Iran like it did Iraq in the 80's...

Needless to say, there is a lot of history between the two...
Uh, actually I think Isreal has publicly said pretty much the opposite- that it wouldnt be able to pre-emptively strike. Whether or not they would may be a different matter, but I don't recall them threatening to do so.

[caravel]

As usual, a muslim country that happens to have pretty sour relations with the US and Israel wants to develop Nuclear energy and it's a terrible crime for them to do so. The US, Britain, Israel, France, North Korea and Russia all have this technology, including weapons. Britain is even talking about constructing more nuclear power stations. But as soon as Iran makes a move to enrich uranium the "world police" start laying down the law. If Iran is moving to arm itself in this way, of which there is currently no hard evidence, there can be only one reason, and that is to deter the US and it's allies from invading as they did Iraq. You don't see the US invading North Korea, this is because they're already armed. Iraq was not Nuclear, Biologically nor, at that time, Chemically armed, and the US and UK knew this only too well, which is why the whole 'WMD' fiasco was invented as a pretext and the invasion went ahead. The cold war proved the effectiveness, and the drawbacks, of mutually assured destruction in that a country with Nuclear weapons became effectively immune to open war.

So with regard to Iran possibly wanting to arm themselves, the question is: Can you blame them? As to the "wipe Israel off the map"/"wipe Iran off the map" thing, well it sounds like alot of empty threats, as Iran, as yet, doesn't posess the technology to do so, and if they did, it is likely that Isreal, a Nuclear Power, would also wipe them off the map at the same time, with the help of their allies the US.

[Husar]

A premeptive strike will not stop a nuclear Iran. They have a huge country. If Israel attacks first, they lose. If Iran attacks first, Israel loses. One bomb can oblitarate everyone in Israel.

These are big words coming from Pervez. No one can wipe off Iran.
That´s actually very funny.:laugh4:

One problems with nukes, however big they may be, is that they have a circle of destruction which means in the case of countries like Israel that if you use just one nuke, you will inevitably harm(or destroy) neighboring countries as well.
And btw, the neighboring countries are full of muslims.
:oops:

[Taffy_is_a_Taff]

That´s actually very funny.:laugh4:

One problems with nukes, however big they may be, is that they have a circle of destruction which means in the case of countries like Israel that if you use just one nuke, you will inevitably harm(or destroy) neighboring countries as well.
And btw, the neighboring countries are full of muslims.
:oops:

The Iranian leadership have made statements before now that they don't care how many of their people die as they could destroy all Israelis and still have a good chunk of their own population left. I imagine this cavalier attitude to their own civilian deaths probably applies to other Muslims too, thus setting the scene for some very nasty goings on if they did try to extinguish Israel.

[Divinus Arma]

Erm. Why do the liberals here find it acceptable that an autocracy should have nuclear weapons? By the same arguments you make, the "world police" should have allowed Hitler to possess nukes too.

The government of Iran publicly seeks the anihilation of Israel.

The government of Israel does not seek the destruction of Iran.


You same people would stand by and watch the holocaust happen all over again.

[Redleg]

As usual, a muslim country that happens to have pretty sour relations with the US and Israel wants to develop Nuclear energy and it's a terrible crime for them to do so. The US, Britain, Israel, France, North Korea and Russia all have this technology, including weapons. Britain is even talking about constructing more nuclear power stations. But as soon as Iran makes a move to enrich uranium the "world police" start laying down the law. If Iran is moving to arm itself in this way, of which there is currently no hard evidence, there can be only one reason, and that is to deter the US and it's allies from invading as they did Iraq. You don't see the US invading North Korea, this is because they're already armed. Iraq was not Nuclear, Biologically nor, at that time, Chemically armed, and the US and UK knew this only too well, which is why the whole 'WMD' fiasco was invented as a pretext and the invasion went ahead. The cold war proved the effectiveness, and the drawbacks, of mutually assured destruction in that a country with Nuclear weapons became effectively immune to open war.

I wonder if someone realizes that most of Western Europe as represented by the European Union is attempting to get Iran to halt the enrichment aspect of their nuclear program.

Or is the European Union just another lapdog of the mighty "world police."


You might want to recheck why there is not a return to active warfare in the conflict between the two Koreas, it is not just because of their possiblity of having a few nuclear weapons. Give you a slight hint there - North Korea didn't have the possiblity of nuclear weapons until recently. (within the last 10-15 years, depending on which intelligence summary you wish to believe.)

It might have something more in the line that for years every artillery piece in North Korea was aimed at where roughly 80% of the population of South Korea lives, where the doctrine of the North Korean military includes the heavy use of chemical weapons to prepare the battlefield for thier attack, or to choke any attack along one of the manuever avenues. That there are only three manuever avenues in korea in which both sides have heavily defended, also plays a factor into the equation, and then there is China, one of the few remaining allies ( and that is just barely in my opinion) of the North Korean regime.

Edit: Oh I forgot to add that look back at the number of talks between the United States and North Korea (two party) and the six party talks (China, North Korea, South Korea, United States, Japan, and if I remember correctly Russia). How many times was a deal worked out for North Korea to halt its enrichment program? How many times did North Korea violate same deal and continue with its development?

Look at a map and you might discover that relative fact, versus the myth of Nuclear Weapons so much spread over the web.




So with regard to Iran possibly wanting to arm themselves, the question is: Can you blame them? As to the "wipe Israel off the map"/"wipe Iran off the map" thing, well it sounds like alot of empty threats, as Iran, as yet, doesn't posess the technology to do so, and if they did, it is likely that Isreal, a Nuclear Power, would also wipe them off the map at the same time, with the help of their allies the US.

With Iran its not an empty threat - check out how much support they provide to several organizations who's sole goal is the destruction of the Israeli state. Its not hard to find out.....

[LeftEyeNine]

The government of Iran publicly seeks the anihilation of Israel.

The government of Israel does not seek the destruction of Iran.

Iran has no headaches and keeping in mind how Ahmedinecad wants to camouflage his idiotic revolution inside- openly confirmed that they want no Israel in Middle East. (not the best way to reveal your intentions)

Israel is fond of Arabians or Iran ? C'mon.. :laugh4: If there were no Palestine at the door, I'd like to hear what they would say at first hand.

Someone acting like world police is irritated by autocracies. How touching :laugh4:

[caravel]

Erm. Why do the liberals here find it acceptable that an autocracy should have nuclear weapons? By the same arguments you make, the "world police" should have allowed Hitler to possess nukes too.

Don't use the liberal tag, it's far too easy to pigeonhole someone in this way instead of listening to their opinions.


The government of Iran publicly seeks the anihilation of Israel.

In your opinion, where's your evidence? Many muslim states have voiced empty threats against israel, the US, the UK and other's direction in the past, why is this any different apart from fitting the US agenda. All you have is one impotent statement and nothing more.


The government of Israel does not seek the destruction of Iran.

I would say not, but that is hardly relevant to this debate. Just because Israel don't seek to destroy Iran and are US allies, it's ok for them to stockpile as many nukes and violate as many UN resolutions as they like? Simply because we believe that they don't intend to use them. I can think of several of the nuclear powers and the one that seems most likely to use it's nuclear weapons is Israel. It's hardly a stable country and is surrounded by enemies, and in a state of constant infighting and terrorist activity. The question is why should anyone trust Israel let alone Iran?


You same people would stand by and watch the holocaust happen all over again.

It was right wing intolerant bigots that persecuted and executed jews during the holocaust, people that wanted supreme power and absolute control over their neighbours, not muslim states like Iran and not your "Liberals".

[Hurin_Rules]

But I think you're missing the central point he was trying to make, Redleg. Israel is not totally blameless here, a poor weakling being menaced by massive bullies. Israel currently occupies land that, in the minds of most Muslims, is Muslim land. They see Palestinians getting bombed and abused daily. We've also seen Israel's main ally invade another Muslim state on the border of Iran in an elective war fought on what seem to be false pretenses. To call Iran the bully when the Israelis are the ones sitting on their fellow Muslims' chests--and with nuclear weapons to boot! --just seems a very poor analogy.

[Scurvy]

if one country has nuclear weapons all countries should, or none, if some countries do have nuclear weapons then others feel they need them for their own safety...therefore i have nothing against iran having nuclear weapons, and i would hope they wouldnt go shooting israel, and doubt they would as it would almost garuntee a respone from the rest of the world, and would kill more palestinian than israelies...

im happy to see this new pm they have trying to form some kind of peace, even if neither side will be totally happy..

more seriously, if israel was blown up by a nuke how would they wipe iran off the map? do they have nukes?!

note: im very biased and so am struggling to see both sides of this one :2thumbsup:

[Redleg]

if one country has nuclear weapons all countries should, or none, if some countries do have nuclear weapons then others feel they need them for their own safety...therefore i have nothing against iran having nuclear weapons, and i would hope they wouldnt go shooting israel, and doubt they would as it would almost garuntee a respone from the rest of the world, and would kill more palestinian than israelies...

im happy to see this new pm they have trying to form some kind of peace, even if neither side will be totally happy..

more seriously, if israel was blown up by a nuke how would they wipe iran off the map? do they have nukes?!

note: im very biased and so am struggling to see both sides of this one :2thumbsup:

A site that I find to be very informative concerning nuclear weapons and the issues involved in the prolifration of them. I searched their web site for the two links.

http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/iran/nuke/index.html

http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/israel/nuke/

Edit: This one will allow one to but it all in prespective on all Nuclear Forces of the world.

http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/

And finally one site that contains a lot of information - but definitely baised in its viewpoint

http://www.iranwatch.org/

[Hurin_Rules]

more seriously, if israel was blown up by a nuke how would they wipe iran off the map? do they have nukes?!



Yes, Israel is the only nation in the region (Pakistan being considered part of the Indian subcontinent) with nuclear weapons.

This makes the US's protestations about Iran's violations of the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty smack of hypocrisy, since Israel, the US's greatest ally in the region hasn't even signed the treaty, yet still wins the US's full support.

[Redleg]

But I think you're missing the central point he was trying to make, Redleg. Israel is not totally blameless here, a poor weakling being menaced by massive bullies. Israel currently occupies land that, in the minds of most Muslims, is Muslim land. They see Palestinians getting bombed and abused daily. We've also seen Israel's main ally invade another Muslim state on the border of Iran in an elective war fought on what seem to be false pretenses. To call Iran the bully when the Israelis are the ones sitting on their fellow Muslims' chests--and with nuclear weapons to boot! --just seems a very poor analogy.

If you remember I often find fault with many of Israel's policies.

However to deny that Iran is not active in seeking the destruction of Israel is to ignore there part in the founding of several organizations dedicated to the destruction of Israel.

[Hurin_Rules]

However to deny that Iran is not active in seeking the destruction of Israel is to ignore there part in the founding of several organizations dedicated to the destruction of Israel.

I don't deny that Iran would like to see Israel destroyed, and that Iranians help fund militant Palestinian organizations dedicated to the destruction of Israel.

I merely objected to characterizing the Iranians as the bullies and the Israelis as blameless.

[Redleg]

I merely objected to characterizing the Iranians as the bullies and the Israelis as blameless.

Again look at the statements I have made concerning this thread and think back to what I have written about my opinion on Israel. You will notice something if you do so....

[Divinus Arma]

I'm in complete agreement with Redleg on this one.

Should there be a settlement that enables palestinians and Israelis to live side by side in peace? Of course.

And I agree that excessive force has been used by both sides in the conflict.

However, this argument is not about the Israeli/Palestinian conflict. (Besides the fact that Hamas actively calls for the destruction of Israel, while Israel has been actively committed to a two-state solution.)

Nor is this discussion about North Korea. Redleg's comments should help place the U.S. policy towards both states into perspective.

The topic is about Iranian possession of nuclear arms and the potential threat they pose to the region once Iran does have a nuke or two. I'm in complete support of a logical argument on the issue.

Let me outline my points so that you folks in favor of a nuclear Iran can at least see from an "evil American's" perspective. Hopefully we can each gain soemthing. I'm all ears.

(1) Iran has a fundamentalist theocratic government that actively sponsors terrorism.
(2) Iran has publicly called for the destruction of Israel and collaborates with terrorist organizations who work towards this goal.
(3) A nuclear armed Iran could covertly sponsor nuclear terrorism in Israel.

EDIT:
I don't deny that Iran would like to see Israel destroyed, and that Iranians help fund militant Palestinian organizations dedicated to the destruction of Israel.

I merely objected to characterizing the Iranians as the bullies and the Israelis as blameless.
This seems contradictory to me. If Iran wants to see Israel destoryed and works towards that goal, but Israel does not engage in the same policy, doesn't that....? I mean, you know? :inquisitive:

[Tribesman]

Uh, actually I think Isreal has publicly said pretty much the opposite- that it wouldnt be able to pre-emptively strike. Whether or not they would may be a different matter, but I don't recall them threatening to do so.

Not quite Xiahou , it has said that it would pre-emptively strike , but it would have problems doing it due to the dispersed nature of the sites , its lack of sufficient in flight refueling resources are another problem , which leaves only the option of submarine launched cruise missiles , and the German submarines don't carry enough of these .
Besides which it knows that any action will lead to a domestic war on 3 fronts which would be an economic disaster .

what actual effect would the missle have how much of israel can it take out

Well Bar, if they were really bad bastards they would do a big dirty bomb in occupied Syria and screw the countries main water supply entirely .:skull:

Anyhow , with all this wiping off the map rubbish .
Iran doesn't recognise Israel , so surely Israel is not on Iranian maps .
So all we have to do is ensure that the current lunatic in Iran doesn't get to see any maps that have Israel on them .
Problem solved:2thumbsup:

[Reenk Roink]

The government of Iran publicly seeks the anihilation of Israel.

The government of Israel does not seek the destruction of Iran.

If we take the posturing of both Iran's and Israel's leaders with more than a grain of salt...

Both publicly seek the destruction of each other...

[Divinus Arma]

If we take the posturing of both Iran's and Israel's leaders with more than a grain of salt...

Both publicly seek the destruction of each other...

No. Iran's foreign policy includes the destruction of Israel.

On the other hand, Israel only claims its right to defend its citizens from Iran.


Why do you hate jews?

[Reenk Roink]

No. Iran's foreign policy includes the destruction of Israel.

On the other hand, Israel only claims its right to defend its citizens from Iran.

Yes, we have heard it all before...


Why do you hate jews?

I don't. Why do you hate Muslims? :rolleyes:

[Scurvy]

Why do you hate jews?

its not jews, its israel, and ditto to the "why do you hate muslims"

[Reenk Roink]

The thing is, I get tired of these ridiculous accusations. Which is why I throw them right back, in hope that it may have an effect.

One can go back and pull up statements by me that (even though I sure am not an Israel fanboy) Israel has secured their right to exist, yes by force, but so what? Most nations have done the same things. I have also stated that the hardliner Ahmadinejad's comments denying the Holocaust are despicable.

I also have never as much as slightly mocked a religion (it is not right, according to my paradigm, to uselessy mock things). Yet a person who has continually posted Muhammad cartoons (perhaps because they were newsworthy and someone did not see them :rolleyes:), referred to Muslims as 'boomskis', etc... accuses me of "hating jews" because I don't see much of a difference between Iranian and Israeli rhetoric...

Wow.

[The_Emperor]

More useless rhetoric.

Sure iran and Israel can be wiped off the map... But so can everyone else if people with fingers on buttons get kind of nervous.

[drone]

We can't allow a middle east nuclear exchange. The added cost of diamond tips to drill through the glass will raise the price of oil over $100 a barrel!

[Husar]

Anyhow , with all this wiping off the map rubbish .
Iran doesn't recognise Israel , so surely Israel is not on Iranian maps .
So all we have to do is ensure that the current lunatic in Iran doesn't get to see any maps that have Israel on them .
Problem solved:2thumbsup:
I agree, great idea!:2thumbsup:

[Divinus Arma]

The thing is, I get tired of these ridiculous accusations. Which is why I throw them right back, in hope that it may have an effect.

One can go back and pull up statements by me that (even though I sure am not an Israel fanboy) Israel has secured their right to exist, yes by force, but so what? Most nations have done the same things. I have also stated that the hardliner Ahmadinejad's comments denying the Holocaust are despicable.

I also have never as much as slightly mocked a religion (it is not right, according to my paradigm, to uselessy mock things). Yet a person who has continually posted Muhammad cartoons (perhaps because they were newsworthy and someone did not see them :rolleyes:), referred to Muslims as 'boomskis', etc... accuses me of "hating jews" because I don't see much of a difference between Iranian and Israeli rhetoric...

Wow.

I refer to suicide bombers and terrorists as boomskis. Do not confuse hatred of violent religious fundamentalist extermism with hatred of Muslims. And I reserve the right to speak freely. I will not be intimidated (edit: by boomskis). further edit: Recent cartoons depicted jesus Christ getting shat on, etc, did you see Christians screaming and burning flags?
I am open minded. I used to scream "sheet of glass". I have since eased my rhetoric.

But, if you don't hate jews, then...

Why do you hate freedom?


This is fun. :2thumbsup:

[Tribesman]

Divinus, since you mistakenly made the tired old attempt to link criticism of Israel and hating Jews .
Could you explore this little problem , why does Israel hate Jews ?

This is fun. :2thumbsup:

[Divinus Arma]

Divinus, since you mistakenly made the tired old attempt to link criticism of Israel and hating Jews .
Could you explore this little problem , why does Israel hate Jews ?

This is fun. :2thumbsup:

Let's not troll. My comments were not serious. Why does Israel hate your mama? She's so fat, when she sits around the house, she sits around the house.

[Tribesman]

Let's not troll. My comments were not serious.
It is not a troll and it is a serious question .

[Divinus Arma]

Let's not troll. My comments were not serious.
It is not a troll and it is a serious question .

Seriously, your mama's a big lady. :laugh4:



Okay okay. Tell me Tribesman, old buddy old pal, how you think Israel hates their own people.

[Louis VI the Fat]

Why do you hate the Micks? :no:

[Redleg]

Why do you hate the Micks? :no:

Why do you hate Native Americans? :oops: Wrong thread....


Why do you hate Anglo-Saxons?

Or why to you hate Scots-Irish?

Or why do you hate lumberjacks....

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

Why... do you hate freedom? :2thumbsup:

[rotorgun]

...with anyone, about nearly any subject, on a virtually constant basis. If they were any less "together" they'd be Democrats.

You are killin' me here Seamus! :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: It never occured to me that my party could be viewed in such a light! ~;) Perhaps you have found the solution to the whole "Palestinian" question. We should round them all up, offer them a free tract of land in Arizona or New Mexico, as the arid climate is similar, and make them into good ole' tax paying American Democrats?
It is brilliant!

I'm going to write to Senetor Kennedy right now! After all, he is in favor of amnesty for the illegals, as long as they become good taxpayers.

:focus: I think that the Isrealis do have a point. I guess Mutually Asured Destruction finally moves to the middle East. :wall:

[Don Corleone]

Edit: Aah, forget it. Read further and saw this devolved into indoor recess...

[Devastatin Dave]

Or why do you hate lumberjacks....
Because they're Canadian!!!:laugh4:



Beirut, why do you hate trees?:laugh4:

[rotorgun]

Edit: Aah, forget it. Read further and saw this devolved into indoor recess...

Ahhh.....come on Don Corleone. Wade in here with us. The boys are just having a bit of fun. ~:grouphug:

But seriously, Isreal is often portrayed by the United States as completely blameless in the amount of discord over this whole mess. Now I am not anti-semetic, but they have treated the Palestinians hardly better than our ancestors treated the native American Indians. While I can sympathize with the defensive attitude of most Isrealis, considering past and recent events, I think it warps their thinking much of the time in politics. It's time to stop the bloodshed before a mushroom cloud does appear over Tel Aviv or Tehran.
:oops:

PS: I do agree with Hurin over the hypocricy of our position in the Middle East. Its hard to convince the muslim world of your peacful intentions when you are practicing imperialism in Iraq and Afghanistan. This isn't a game of RTW they are playing here. Real people are dying or being maimed for life by the score. ~:mecry: I suggest a reading of John Tolands Hiroshima, Ballentine Books, before anyone thinks that a nuke is "the bomb" of an idea to use. If I could translate it into Parsi, I would send a copy to Iran's President.
:book:

[yesdachi]

Perhaps you have found the solution to the whole "Palestinian" question. We should round them all up, offer them a free tract of land in Arizona or New Mexico,
I know where they can get a great deal on blankets. :devil:


:indian_brave: Psssst, don’t take the blankets.

[Don Corleone]

Something tells me that President Ahmadinejad is not going to be satisfied with a 2 state solution. Nor do I believe that a 2 state solution will satisfy the Palestinians or many on the American/European Left. We all pay lip service to it now, because before Palestine can take back all of their territory, they need a starting place, so the 1948 borders will have to do, for now. Frankly, I do not believe the Palestinians or the Left will be talking about a 2 state solution once they get it. The debate will evolve, which frankly is one of the reasons why Israel has dragged it's heels on the successful negotiation of a 2-state solution... they know better than anyone what comes next.

That being said, engaging in this sort of rhetoric helps nobody. Everyone knows there's at least one Trident task force patrolling around the Persian gulf, ready to reduce Iran back to sticks and stones if they get any bright ideas about a pre-emptive strike.

Frankly, I think Israel needs to take a very pragmatic approach to dealing with Iran. Ignore them. When Hizbollah agents are caught causing mayhem in Haifa or Tel Aviv, deal with them swiftly and thoroughly (and hopefully quietly). But they're not going to win any sort of 'war of words'. It only reinforces the stereotypes against Israel among Europe and the American Left, as witnessed by the discussion in this thread.

[rotorgun]

Something tells me that President Ahmadinejad is not going to be satisfied with a 2 state solution. Nor do I believe that a 2 state solution will satisfy the Palestinians or many on the American/European Left. We all pay lip service to it now, because before Palestine can take back all of their territory, they need a starting place, so the 1948 borders will have to do, for now. Frankly, I do not believe the Palestinians or the Left will be talking about a 2 state solution once they get it. The debate will evolve, which frankly is one of the reasons why Israel has dragged it's heels on the successful negotiation of a 2-state solution... they know better than anyone what comes next.

That being said, engaging in this sort of rhetoric helps nobody. Everyone knows there's at least one Trident task force patrolling around the Persian gulf, ready to reduce Iran back to sticks and stones if they get any bright ideas about a pre-emptive strike.

Frankly, I think Israel needs to take a very pragmatic approach to dealing with Iran. Ignore them. When Hizbollah agents are caught causing mayhem in Haifa or Tel Aviv, deal with them swiftly and thoroughly (and hopefully quietly). But they're not going to win any sort of 'war of words'. It only reinforces the stereotypes against Israel among Europe and the American Left, as witnessed by the discussion in this thread.

Very well said sir. You have brought up a neat point about the Trident task force. This is why I can never be really all that worked up about Iranian nukes. Having survived the Cold War, where Nato faced off with the Soviet Union, and each side could have blown the other to Barzoom on Mars, I just can't buy all the Bush/Cheney rhetoric about the "imminent threat" of a nuclear equipped Iran. (Unless of course I was in Iraq) Perhaps we should send them a copy of our MAD policies of the past, and explain how membership in the nuclear club works.
:helloo:

Nice thoughts on the appropriate response of Isreal to Iran. Unfortunately for the United States, we now have, thanks to the fabulous policies of my government, placed our soldiers in the line of fire of any potential Iranian nuclear armed missles. Too bad the White House isn't close enough as well. I don't think that Bush and his little roadshow would talk so tough then. It's ok if a few thousand middle class types go up in smoke though, as long as we get to retaliate from our nice little safe desk in Washington DC.

:hide:

[Redleg]

Well it seem Iran is attempting a flank attack on th Nuclear issue, by sending a letter.

NPR has some quotes from the letter

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5392883


link to the complete letter.

http://www.npr.org/documents/2006/may/ahmadinejad_letter.pdf

Have fun reading the letter. It is rather interesting nevertheless

[yesdachi]

Well it seem Iran is attempting a flank attack on th Nuclear issue, by sending a letter.

NPR has some quotes from the letter

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5392883


link to the complete letter.

http://www.npr.org/documents/2006/may/ahmadinejad_letter.pdf

Have fun reading the letter. It is rather interesting nevertheless
His tone is a little disrespectful IMO, especially in the next to the last paragraph. The one that ends “Do you want to join them”.

Although it is the first official correspondence in many years I think it is just an insincere ploy used to show the “world” that they are trying to communicate with the war mongering US.

Pat Buchanan commented the other day that the US was like a heavy weight boxer and Iran was a wimpy 9th grader calling the US out to fight. Basically saying we should ignore them, they were not a threat at all. It was an interesting analogy that certainly holds some reason but if we ignore the angry little 9th grader now, he could come back as a 10th grader with a gun or in this case with a nuke that could be given to terrorists or used against us or our allies.

The biggest difference I see between the current Nuke powers and Iran is the fact that the current Nuke powers have a higher value of life than Iran seems to. IMO that is the scariest part, they don’t seem to care who they hurt as long as they hurt their enemies. Granted, they have not yet committed a mass attack but I think it would be a huge mistake to allow them, with the current attitude they show, to go on down the road to the Nuke club.

[rotorgun]

I can't help but wonder if he doesn't have some writers from CNN on his staff. All in all, an interesting document. I do think that he is sincere about the Palestinian issue, and makes a good point about the rights of a nation to perform research and development. He's living in a dreamworld if he thinks that the Bush administration is going to back down, and allow them to proceed. Interesting rhetorical arguement, couldn't one say?

The strong do what they can, while the weak suffer what they must.

Meanwhile....back at the ranch. :dancinglock:

[Tribesman]

Tell me Tribesman, old buddy old pal, how you think Israel hates their own people.
Well Divinus , it s your government that said it .
It appears that the Israeli government hates some people to such an extent that it discriminates against them because of their religeon .
It abuses their human rights because they are Jewish .

Work that one out .:juggle2:

[Joker85]

Tell me Tribesman, old buddy old pal, how you think Israel hates their own people.
Well Divinus , it s your government that said it .


They most certainly did not say anything close to that. Again you are interpreting things the way you would like and stating them as fact.:inquisitive:

[Tribesman]

They most certainly did not say anything close to that. Again you are interpreting things the way you would like and stating them as fact.
Really Joker ?
So if a State denies people its basic rights on the basis of their religeon what is it ?
If you dicriminate against someone on any basis it means you have a level of hatred against the issue that you are using to discriminate .
If you discriminate against someone on the basis of their skin colour you have a hatred based on skin colour , if you discriminate on the basis of religeon then you have hatred based on religeon .
So if you discriminate against people on the basis of thier Jewish religeon you have hatred based on Jewish religeon .
So there you go , Israel hates Jews .
No two ways about it , and it is an issue that the State has had since its creation , its quite a hot topic over there you know .

[Joker85]

They most certainly did not say anything close to that. Again you are interpreting things the way you would like and stating them as fact.
Really Joker ?
So if a State denies people its basic rights on the basis of their religeon what is it ?
If you dicriminate against someone on any basis it means you have a level of hatred against the issue that you are using to discriminate .
If you discriminate against someone on the basis of their skin colour you have a hatred based on skin colour , if you discriminate on the basis of religeon then you have hatred based on religeon .
So if you discriminate against people on the basis of thier Jewish religeon you have hatred based on Jewish religeon .
So there you go , Israel hates Jews .
No two ways about it , and it is an issue that the State has had since its creation , its quite a hot topic over there you know .

If aliens came down tommorow and destroyed the earth, we would all be dead. What is your point?

Once again you have confused your interpretations and wishes of events, actions, and quotes, with their actual occurences.

If those things you listed were actually going on as a government policy in Isreal, perhaps you would have a point. But I just wanted to get it on the record that the government has never said anything close to "Isreal hates Jews" or even implied they do. You simply attributed a quote to the government that never happened based off of your personal interpretations of and possible objection to policies of the Isreali government.

You have a habit of saying "your own government/laws said xxx" to give your arguments credence when in reality it turns out to be wishful thinking and ...I'll be nice and call it "generous" interpretation on your part.

[Tribesman]

If those things you listed were actually going on as a government policy in Isreal, perhaps you would have a point.
Are you really that clueless Joker ?
But I just wanted to get it on the record that the government has never said anything close to "Isreal hates Jews"
Well joker you had better check the record .

Tell you what , just to be helpfull since you appear to be completely lost .
Answer this , what is a Jew ?
You will find quite a lengthy thread on this forum recently with that very title .:book:
try reading and perhaps you will understand , or failing that try learning a few basics about the history of the State of Israel , its politics and its laws . Especially its Laws that discriminate on the basis of religeon .

Maybe then you may actually know just a little about what you are trying to talk about .:coffeenews:

[Redleg]

Tell me Tribesman, old buddy old pal, how you think Israel hates their own people.
Well Divinus , it s your government that said it .
It appears that the Israeli government hates some people to such an extent that it discriminates against them because of their religeon .
It abuses their human rights because they are Jewish .

Work that one out .:juggle2:
Is someone reading certain far right pro-zionist websites again? :laugh4:

http://www.hineni.org/rcolumn_view.asp?id=242&category=1


Today, the leftists dominate Israel; today, it is the Israeli government that expels Jewish settlers from their homes, from the land of their fathers. Today, Arabs can incite to riot, attack, and kill, and the Israeli government turns the other cheek - and it’s all done in the name of the “Peace Process” - in the vain hope that by giving up our land and shutting our eyes to their acts of ignom, we will appease their ferocious appetite.
While we have undergone many crises in the past, and the Israeli government was far from perfect, there is one thing that the courageous Israeli leadership always knew - and that was that terrorist bullies could not be indulged, but had to be dealt with a strong arm and an uncompromising hand. But that simple wisdom evaporated with Oslo, and since then, everything has gone down hill.

Hmm. interesting spin attempt nevertheless............ NOT...:laugh4:

Edit: All nations have laws that condone some sort of discrimination, especially under the guise of insuring the general welfare of the nation, or the citizens.

[Ronin]

i vote that we blow both of them to kingdom come....i´m getting tired of this "we´re so good, they´re so evil" crap

[Reenk Roink]

Is someone reading certain far right pro-zionist websites again? :laugh4:

http://www.hineni.org/rcolumn_view.asp?id=242&category=1

Hmm. interesting spin attempt nevertheless............ NOT...:laugh4:


I searched "Israel hating Jews" into google and got the links of some very racist sites (teh hack them!). So I intellifyed my search as "Israel against Jews" and got the opposite :laugh4:.

http://www.nkusa.org/

Oh google, how I love you so. ~:flirt:

But really, can we please stop the "hate _____"?

[Redleg]

I searched "Israel hating Jews" into google and got the links of some very racist sites (teh hack them!). So I intellifyed my search as "Israel against Jews" and got the opposite :laugh4:.

http://www.nkusa.org/

Oh google, how I love you so. ~:flirt:

But really, can we please stop the "hate _____"?

Kinda interesting isn't. :no: It seems that several groups would like to believe that the Israel hates jews. One for attempting to work with the PA (a little grant it), and one for not working enough with the PA.

I find it amusing in a very sad way. :no:

[Zain]

I just read the first page of this discussion, and realized that there were 2 more pages, so I'm just going to bleep in and say my piece about something for a bit. Please excuse me if this is off the current subject, but biblically, Israel was prophecized to never be wiped out, no matter how hard you tried.

So Iran bombing Israel wouldn't work anyway. They are God's chosen people.

Interesting, I know.

Go on with your current discussion, excuse me.

-ZainDustin

[BHCWarman88]

No one can wipe off Iran.



totally wrong Prince. Isreail Can't,but USA or Russia could..

[Tribesman]

Is someone reading certain far right pro-zionist websites again?
Is that the site by the US government ? nope .
Is that site about the Israeli government discriminating in law against someones religeon ? nope .
Though I suppose some settlers do think that the right to claim any land they want is their religeon .
But when they write .....today, it is the Israeli government that expels Jewish settlers from their homes, from the land of their fathers.
it does raise the question , what is the Israeli government doing evicting people in Brooklyn ?:laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:

Then again some of these zionist groups claim that the Israeli politicians are no longer Jewish , work that one out :stupido:

So interesting spin Red ....not ~:wave:

[Redleg]

Is someone reading certain far right pro-zionist websites again?
Is that the site by the US government ? nope .
Is that site about the Israeli government discriminating in law against someones religeon ? nope .
Though I suppose some settlers do think that the right to claim any land they want is their religeon .
But when they write .....today, it is the Israeli government that expels Jewish settlers from their homes, from the land of their fathers.
it does raise the question , what is the Israeli government doing evicting people in Brooklyn ?:laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:

Then again some of these zionist groups claim that the Israeli politicians are no longer Jewish , work that one out :stupido:

So interesting spin Red ....not ~:wave:

Ah so someone doesn't like his spin being answered with spin. Interesting... LOL

It also seems that you missed the other statement at the end of the message. That is what happens when you only focus on attempting to spin and misrepresent.

Its rather interesting playing this little game. I expect next the typical response from you, never an honest discourse - are you sure your not a politician? Or has the time you spent in the IRA effected your ability to have a civil conservation once again.. :wall:

[Tribesman]

Or has the time you spent in the IRA effected your ability to have a civil conservation once again..
Red , I never expected you to make such a pathetic post .:no:

[Redleg]

Or has the time you spent in the IRA effected your ability to have a civil conservation once again..
Red , I never expected you to make such a pathetic post .:no:

Matches most of your attempts direct at others lately. You play the cryptic game very well, so you should know that IRA stands for many things besides the one you assumed I was speaking of.

IRA could of meant this organization?

http://www.reading.org/

Or I could of been talking about this - something that very well could cloud one's mind.

http://www.ira.com/

Oh well enough games for now.....

Edit: oh well never mind - we both know what game you are playing and that you don't like it played back on you. What a pathic attempt you played here with your comments - it deserved exactly the return that it got.