Faked conquests?

[Rodion Romanovich]

What are your examples of faked conquests? Conquests that were denied, conquests that were invented by propaganda but never took place, defeats that were successfully presented as victories, and wars that were moved in time by propaganda and similar?

One interesting theory I heard recently was that the roman invasion of Britain took place before a few decades before it was officially claimed to have taken place. Apparently there was pretty solid archaeological evidence. Unfortunately I lost the source for this...

Have you got any other interesting examples of wars that were denied, invented, or altered due to propaganda, and successfully made their average citizens and/or historians believe for a very long time that what the propaganda said was true?

[Red Peasant]

The invasion you mean was probably a spreading of cultural influence into what is now SE England. Imperial agents would have been responsible for diplomatic influence in the region as well.

I can't remember the details, but weren't most of Ramesses 'The Great's' conquests fabricated for propaganda purposes?

[Avicenna]

There have been Egyptian-Nubian wars where both sides claimed to be the victor. Another famous example is the 300 Argives against the 300 Spartans. Two Argives were victorious and walked away, but a single Spartan was evidently not yet dead, and built a triumph out of the enemy's arms as they did in the day. The Spartans then claimed victory and wore their famous long hair.

[Alexanderofmacedon]

There have been Egyptian-Nubian wars where both sides claimed to be the victor. Another famous example is the 300 Argives against the 300 Spartans. Two Argives were victorious and walked away, but a single Spartan was evidently not yet dead, and built a triumph out of the enemy's arms as they did in the day. The Spartans then claimed victory and wore their famous long hair.

It's not that I don't believe you, I'd just like to read more about this. Do you have any links?

[Justiciar]

Alesia.. the whole thing wreaks of BS.

[Alexanderofmacedon]

Yes, it seems hard to believe, but I don't think things would have gone the same if they did not win the battle. May have happend differently, but I do believe the point that Rome won the battle.

EDIT:If you're talking troops numbers, I could possibly agree...

[Geoffrey S]

It's tempting to say a lot of Caesar's battles as he depicted them didn't take place, but he couldn't twist the facts too far. There were many men under his command, and if too many of them told differing stories about the wars in Gaul compared to his De Bello Gallico upon returning home it would be politically risky. Though likely, many details were twisted to make things more spectacular and dramatic.

Best piece of propaganda written, methinks.

[Avicenna]

There's a link to the Spartan one in an earlier post in the Collosseum, 'Are Spartans Gods?'. The Egyptian-Nubian wars I think I watched in a documentary, so I'm afraid that I don't have any links. Sorry.

[matteus the inbred]

Napoleon was well-known for propaganda in the publication Moniteur. A particular example is the presentation of the British victory at Talavera as a crushing French victory. In mitigation, Napoleon was often misled as to numbers, casualties and results by his Marshals (Soult and Marmont being notably less than scrupulous about the facts), however, he continually presented the situation in Spain as being stable and settled and a fait accompli instead of telling the truth. I suppose therefore you could argue that the Napoleonic conquest or subjugation of Spain never really took place, certainly not to the extent presented in the French government publications.

[Rodion Romanovich]

Interesting! The subject is quite interesting because it seems like a war involving thousands of people would be something that would be extremely difficult to fake. Apparently not! ~:)

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Tet 1968 Vietnam.

US. and South Vietnamese forces smashed the combat capability of the Viet Cong inflicting major damage on that organization for the first time. Casualties and degraded capabilities were so extensive that the North was forced to commit numerous regular army formations just to stabilize the situation. North Vietnamese leadership even briefly discussed ending the conflict among themselves.

Shortly thereafter, American public opinion concluded that we couldn't win, and agitation to cut and run mangified greatly. By getting their irregular forces smashed and negating their own ability to win, the North won.

[Redleg]

The Sinking of the Battleship Maine.

The Spanish were blamed for the explosion, but the best guess to the actually cause was that the boiler exploded.

Yellow Journalism at its inception.

[Avicenna]

Not exactly faked, but the World Wars? I think the Tsarists, Soviets, Germans and Japanese largely kept quiet about their defeats but were sure to make all their victories known. Both the Germans in WWI and Japan in WWII did not believe that they had lost fairly because they did not know about their defeats.

If you just talk about fake, exaggerated numbers, there probably hasn't been a war when the numbers haven't been exaggerated at least once.

[Prince Cobra]

Something close to the topic. Byzantines were master of this. According to byz historians almost every defeat of the victorious byzantine army was caused by bad luck or a coincidence. They were always the best even if they lose (but according to them).

[Avicenna]

Was this a tradition starting from Adrianople?

[edyzmedieval]

The sinking of Bismarck is another faked stuff. The guys on the ship claimed they charged it with bombs. Yet, they don't.

Or do they? :inquisitive:

[nokhor]

It's not that I don't believe you, I'd just like to read more about this. Do you have any links?

it's in herodotus, the battle of thyrea/ thyreatis. here's a link, but the story itself is from a legendary period so as to whether it actually happend...
http://www.sikyon.com/Argos/history_eg.html

[The Stranger]

the polish attack on germany in 1939. hitler used this as an excuse to attack Poland and start ww2