View Full Version : Lars' warning
I don't understand it. Somebody, please explain it to me.
I don't understand it. Somebody, please explain it to me.
Pretty self explaintory.
Lars stated something that someone found offensive, and that individual stated so. Instead of stopping the discussion - Lars responded with another comment.
Did it deserve a warning?
I don't know - but it is evident that a moderator believed that it did.
It was being expressed as an opinion, though, and it's not like the sharing of his opinions was unprovoked.
It was being expressed as an opinion, though, and it's not like the sharing of his opinions was unprovoked.
But does that equate to justification for his statement? I don't think so.
What might be a better question is did the other poster get a message concerning his ad hominen comment?
Or better yet why did the moderator post the warning in the thread?
Papewaio
05-11-2006, 03:16
Posts containing any generally objectionable material: knowingly false and/or defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, or otherwise violative of any law. Posting of copyrighted material, unless the copyright is owned by you or by The Guild, is discouraged. The Guild expects its patrons to remain civil even in the face of disagreements. Any kind of "flaming", slurs or insults adressed to an individual or a group is extremely inappropriate. Please respect etiquette at all times.
Since he was enjoying the misery of others so much I figured he would enjoy some for himself. Live by the sword, die by it.
=][=
The 'Bricking' is consistent with my stated moderating style:
The mottois "Do as you please and please as you do!"
The way I like to mod in order:
1) Have the patrons moderate themselves so I can relax and look at the babe thread.
2) If I have to get out of bed and tell someone to tone it down I generally will ask so in the thread and let them again self moderate.
3) For the really nasty trolls (KKK and people showing porn to 12 year olds) I prefer a pair of bricks and latex gloves. Castration old school :skull: .
Handy clapping that makes the bad guys handicapped. :laugh4:
Laughing at a 5 year olds misfortune of being run over twice and currently being in an induced coma puts him in category 3. The warning point system is far more subtle now then it used to be. 6 warning points is no where as big an issue as it used to be. A month and they dissipate. He will be back in the Org if he so chooses before Sophie even gets out of hospital.
=][=
For those interested in Sophies condition you can visit the charity her family setup after her previous hospital stay:
Day of Difference (http://www.dayofdifference.org.au/)
But does that equate to justification for his statement? I don't think so.
What might be a better question is did the other poster get a message concerning his ad hominen comment?
Or better yet why did the moderator post the warning in the thread?
No justification is needed for saying 'I find this funny'. The other two questions are also fair, but serve only to distract from the bigger issue.
KukriKhan
05-11-2006, 04:04
...but serve only to distract from the bigger issue.
That being?
Byzantine Prince
05-11-2006, 04:36
I don't get what the big deal is. What he said was not vulgar, hateful or obsene in my opinion.
That being?
That poor taste in humour does not deserve a warning. He didn't press the issue; he replied to people who replied to him the first time.
No justification is needed for saying 'I find this funny'. The other two questions are also fair, but serve only to distract from the bigger issue.
I don't think that the "I find this funny" was the only statement that caused the problem. There was a follow-up on the response that he got from that comment that might of crossed the line in my opinion, but I would of just ignored it for the type of comment that it was, however, in the moderator's opinion it did cross the line - just like he mentioned in his post in this thread.
The second post of Lars stated this
Your don't have my sense of humour do you. That story is about pain, suffering, blind opimism, irony, and dismemberment. All things I find the height of hilarity.
Reviling in the misery of others could be seen as a vulger and hateful stance. Which would warrant a moderator's action.
Ser Clegane
05-11-2006, 08:45
It was being expressed as an opinion
Insults and hate speech are also expressions of opinions - that does not mean that either is acceptable.
I assume you also wouldn't have a problem if somebody here expressed his joy about the death/mutilation of the victims of suicide bombings?
Ser Clegane
05-11-2006, 08:49
What might be a better question is did the other poster get a message concerning his ad hominen comment?´
Violations of forum rules are treated as such - even if the target of the attack is somebody who also violated the rules.
Mithrandir
05-11-2006, 10:12
That poor taste in humour does not deserve a warning. He didn't press the issue; he replied to people who replied to him the first time.
Yea! racist jokes with racist replies are fine as well! :2thumbsup:
:no: :no: :no:
Insults and hate speech are also expressions of opinions - that does not mean that either is acceptable.
I assume you also wouldn't have a problem if somebody here expressed his joy about the death/mutilation of the victims of suicide bombings?
No, actually, I wouldn't. Lars neither insulted or proclaimed any hatred in his posts. They were actually not so different from the one Pape quoted above, the one dealing with 'preferring to castrate offenders with a pair of bricks' and then posting that little laughing smilie afterwards.
Yea! racist jokes with racist replies are fine as well! :2thumbsup:
:no: :no: :no:
Totally impertinent.
Louis VI the Fat
05-11-2006, 20:05
There are plenty of sites on the net for people who are into mutilated six year old girls. The Org is not one of them.
There are plenty of sites on the net for people who are into mutilated six year old girls. The Org is not one of them.
Now, you're making him out to be some kind of pervert. He said it was funny, not that he was 'into' anything.
doc_bean
05-13-2006, 22:48
Why do so many people make such a big deal out of a warning ? It's not like you get banned, and they go away with time anway (at least I think so).
:juggle2:
edyzmedieval
05-13-2006, 23:08
The mottois "Do as you please and please as you do!"
The way I like to mod in order:
1) Have the patrons moderate themselves so I can relax and look at the babe thread.
2) If I have to get out of bed and tell someone to tone it down I generally will ask so in the thread and let them again self moderate.
3) For the really nasty trolls (KKK and people showing porn to 12 year olds) I prefer a pair of bricks and latex gloves. Castration old school :skull: .
Handy clapping that makes the bad guys handicapped. :laugh4:
How I love this... :laugh4:
Why do so many people make such a big deal out of a warning ? It's not like you get banned, and they go away with time anway (at least I think so).
:juggle2:
Lars was given 6 points. Initial banning occurs after 3.
Mithrandir
05-14-2006, 07:27
With all respect...
You've had an answer to your question, must you keep nagging?
I get enough of that from my gf.
With all respect...
You've had an answer to your question, must you keep nagging?
I get enough of that from my gf.
Evidently, I haven't received some kind of answer I deem satisfactory. You really had to ask?
Papewaio
05-15-2006, 02:03
Vulgar:
Crudely indecent.
Hateful:
adj 1: evoking or deserving hatred; "no vice is universally as hateful as ingratitude"- Joseph Priestly [ant: lovable] 2: characterized by malice; "a hateful thing to do"; "in a mean mood" [syn: mean]
Malice
A desire to harm others or to see others suffer; extreme ill will or spite.
Wanton disregard for the rights of others or for the value of human life.
Feeling a need to see others suffer.
Obscene
Repulsive; disgusting.
Sadism
The deriving of sexual gratification or the tendency to derive sexual gratification from inflicting pain or emotional abuse on others.
The deriving of pleasure, or the tendency to derive pleasure, from cruelty.
Extreme cruelty.
"Your don't have my sense of humour do you. That story is about pain, suffering, blind opimism, irony, and dismemberment. All things I find the height of hilarity."
Someone making fun of a young girl being run over and stating that they enjoy not only that but the state in which she is left is certainly covered by vulgar, hateful and obscene.
I would say that his posts were particularly devoid of hatred, and that they were no more vulgar or obscene than other things that go by without warning, particularly, again, your own 'way you like to mod'.
Papewaio
05-15-2006, 03:14
So you are equivalence to someone who finds joy in seeing a five year old maimed with someone giving out lots of warning points to trolls, KKK recruiters and sadists... that is your choice, however I don't see it in the FAQ and as such is not one of the standards I will use to measure.
Lars573 finds humour in the misery of others, surely he should be able to find humour in this situation too?
As a reference point I gave jesus 14 warning points for his outburst. :bow:
Reenk Roink
05-15-2006, 03:56
What was done in this case was sickening...:no: :shame:
If anyone thinks it acceptable to find humor in another's suffering, especially an innocent unknown, there is something seriously wrong with their state of mind and paradigm.
I (and I would presume most people) don't find amusement in the suffering of criminals...
edyzmedieval
05-15-2006, 10:23
Such cruelty. Wow, I had to live to see this one. Guess my wish has been fullfilled. :no:
I would say that his posts were particularly devoid of hatred, and that they were no more vulgar or obscene than other things that go by without warning, particularly, again, your own 'way you like to mod'.
How would you mod if he would do the same on your forum?
I would have given him Ban IP, PermBAN and other stuff if he was on my forum. :skull:
Louis VI the Fat
05-15-2006, 22:23
I would say that his posts were particularly devoid of hatredReally, I get the impression that you're being deliberatily obtuse here. I would not agree, but I could understand you arguing that he meant it tongue-in-cheek, or that he was provoked, or just being immature.
But how reviling in the misery of a five year old would be particularly devoid of hatred is utterly beyond me.
they were no more vulgar or obscene than other things that go by without warning, particularly, again, your own 'way you like to mod'.If a thief is ordered to pay a fine, then that doesn't make the judge a thief too, now does it?
If a serial killer goes on a shooting spree, does that take away the moral right of police officers to use a gun to stop him, for fear of doing the same thing as him?
KukriKhan
05-16-2006, 05:36
Moved to the backroom area of Watchtower.
I would say that his posts were particularly devoid of hatred, and that they were no more vulgar or obscene than other things that go by without warning, particularly, again, your own 'way you like to mod'.
Gorebag the difference between Lars comments and Papewaio's "Way I like to to mod" are quite simple one is laughing at a real persons pain, suffering and misfortune the other isn’t real at all its complete fiction.
So you are equivalence
What?
Lars573 finds humour in the misery of others, surely he should be able to find humour in this situation too?
Maybe. Not my point.
As a reference point I gave jesus 14 warning points for his outburst. :bow:
I don't get it.
Really, I get the impression that you're being deliberatily obtuse here. I would not agree, but I could understand you arguing that he meant it tongue-in-cheek, or that he was provoked, or just being immature.
But how reviling in the misery of a five year old would be particularly devoid of hatred is utterly beyond me.
You have to hate someone to laugh at them?
If a thief is ordered to pay a fine, then that doesn't make the judge a thief too, now does it?
If a serial killer goes on a shooting spree, does that take away the moral right of police officers to use a gun to stop him, for fear of doing the same thing as him?[/QUOTE[
This parabol doesn't actually make sense because Pape's statement wasn't in reaction to Lars', and especially not as a punishment - if the judge commits theft on his own time, yes, he is a thief.
[QUOTE=edyzmedieval]How would you mod if he would do the same on your forum?
I would have given him Ban IP, PermBAN and other stuff if he was on my forum.
I wouldn't have given him a warning, as you might have already assumed, and I guess it's good that you're not moderating.
BHCWarman88
05-17-2006, 03:51
I got a warining for Bashing CA and saying such and such a thing "sucks" and it was a "sexual Term" even though I did not use it in that way,and I didn't whine about it much.. just ask why,sent a few messages between me and the Mod and that was it.. no need to bring it public..
Mithrandir
05-17-2006, 07:55
I don't understand it. Somebody, please explain it to me.
If a post's content is essentially objectionable, it will be deleted instead. Examples of objectionable messages include, but are not limited to:
Posts containing any generally objectionable material: knowingly false and/or defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene
General opinion was that his posts were vulgar.Hence he did not follow the forumrules. Hence he received a warning for each post.
You can drag it out and post yet another reply, but that'd just be to get attention. If you think his posts were not objectional, that's your personal opinion, general opinion was the opposite, which leads again to the forumrules.
If a post's content is essentially objectionable, it will be deleted instead. Examples of objectionable messages include, but are not limited to:
Posts containing any generally objectionable material: knowingly false and/or defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene
which can be read here :
http://www.totalwar.org/cgi-bin/Rules.shtml
I truly,from the bottom of my heart, hope I've answered your questions, however if you do feel the urge to go deeper into subject, to take it to a philosophical level, a discussion on the terms "general opinion" and it effects of it upon humanity, or anything else. I invite you to a Private Message conversation. :2thumbsup:
-Mithrandir.
Reenk Roink
05-17-2006, 11:50
I wouldn't have given him a warning, as you might have already assumed, and I guess it's good that you're not moderating.
If so, I guess it's good that you're not moderating as well.
In fact, I guess the current moderators are doing a fine job, and were justified in taking action in response to a violation of forum rules. Every forum is different. This one does not condone statement's of the type that you defend.
edyzmedieval
05-17-2006, 12:26
I wouldn't have given him a warning, as you might have already assumed, and I guess it's good that you're not moderating.
If you don't like it here, go somewhere else and leave us alone. We can live without your ignorant replies thank you.
:shame:
Shameful. You nearly have 3000 posts and you behave like this. :no:
LeftEyeNine
05-17-2006, 12:39
Fellows please avoid creating new personal disputes. I think this statement of Riiink Royink 's ~:) describes the situation pretty well:
Every forum is different. This one does not condone statement's of the type that you defend.
I know GoreBag is a nice guy -a regular chat fellow out there, however, although his point of view always has a place to be mentioned as any other friend here has, it does not have to be "right" as already most of the members including non-moderators indicated their approval with the warning points delivered on Lars.
Noone needs to go anywhere, we are a happy community here. And finally I kindly ask all of you for a "think twice speak once" trick in order to keep our guild peaceful.
:bow:
Ser Clegane
05-17-2006, 12:44
If you don't like it here, go somewhere else and leave us alone. We can live without your ignorant replies thank you.
:shame:
Shameful. You nearly have 3000 posts and you behave like this. :no:
I think this is going a bit too far now.
GoreBag asked some questions that are reasonable (even if a lot of people apparently disagree with his view on the presented issue).
There is no reason to ask him to leave and there is certainly no reason to pretend that you are speaking for the community as a whole and not just for yourself.
edyzmedieval
05-17-2006, 12:59
I wouldn't have given him a warning, as you might have already assumed, and I guess it's good that you're not moderating.
I would say that his posts were particularly devoid of hatred, and that they were no more vulgar or obscene than other things that go by without warning, particularly, again, your own 'way you like to mod'.
You call this nice speaking? :inquisitive:
edyzmedieval
05-17-2006, 13:05
There is no reason to ask him to leave and there is certainly no reason to pretend that you are speaking for the community as a whole and not just for yourself.
Sorry, I have no EDIT button for my recent post. :inquisitive:
Sorry about that, I was reffering to myself. I really don't like how he replied that time. Or maybe I am a bit too short-tempered.... :no: :skull:
King Henry V
05-17-2006, 15:00
What?
I wouldn't have given him a warning, as you might have already assumed, and I guess it's good that you're not moderating.
And I guess it's also a good job that there aren't many more Lars' in the world, if not it would be more of a sick place than it already is.
Mithrandir
05-17-2006, 16:40
Fellows please avoid creating new personal disputes
:2thumbsup:
General opinion was that his posts were vulgar.Hence he did not follow the forumrules. Hence he received a warning for each post.
You can drag it out and post yet another reply, but that'd just be to get attention. If you think his posts were not objectional, that's your personal opinion, general opinion was the opposite, which leads again to the forumrules.
I was under the impression that a moderator should try his best to remain objective, rather than bending to the will of the mob. Of course it would be to get attention - I did need someone's attention to make this thread effective.
I truly,from the bottom of my heart, hope I've answered your questions, however if you do feel the urge to go deeper into subject, to take it to a philosophical level, a discussion on the terms "general opinion" and it effects of it upon humanity, or anything else. I invite you to a Private Message conversation. :2thumbsup:
-Mithrandir.
Thanks for the offer, but I rarely do PM's.
It appears to me that the warning is a bit over-the-top. But I`m not a moderator..:book:
Mithrandir
05-17-2006, 22:04
[QUOTE=GoreBag]I was under the impression that a moderator should try his best to remain objective, rather than bending to the will of the mob. Of course it would be to get attention QUOTE]
Ok, I'll humour you.
It's not bending to the will of the mod. Read my post again...and again if you still dont understand.
Ofcourse you do, but where's the fun in that.
I was under the impression that a moderator should try his best to remain objective, rather than bending to the will of the mob. Of course it would be to get attention
Ok, I'll humour you.
It's not bending to the will of the mod. Read my post again...and again if you still dont understand.
Ofcourse you do, but where's the fun in that.
Oh, the humour. No, YOU read my post again until you understand MY point. :dizzy2:
Papewaio
05-17-2006, 23:28
Curious if I was bending to the will of the mob in a populist effort I would be handing out praise for efforts, gold stars and removing warning points.
I delivered 6 warning points to make it abundantly clear that laughing at a child being run over goes way beyond calling a mod a Goose-stepper, or swearing, or posting an unclad nipple.
The patron jesus got 14 warning points because of his KKK recruiting.
Most people's attacks on mods I will use smilies to counter with.
Attacks on others, particularly those who cannot defend themselves such as children or the mentally handicapped will have a response that is strong. Laughing at someones injuries shows a lack of empathy and sympathy.
Laughing at someones injuries shows a lack of empathy and sympathy.
To the heart of the issue. As I understand it, one should be punished here for not being sympathetic?
To the heart of the issue. As I understand it, one should be punished here for not being sympathetic?
I don't think warnings are punishments. They are warnings. They are messages that say "that post was unacceptable". The points mean that continuing to make such posts will not be tolerated.
On the substance of the issue, this is a public forum. Members are expected to behave like decent human beings. By any conventional standard of morality, laughing at a maimed child is not decent behaviour. Try doing it in a school, a university, a public meeting, in a newspaper, on TV, in a court room, a hospital, your parents home, wherever and see whether those responsible for overseeing things regard it as acceptable.
Lars was behaving like a jerk. The forum is not a place for such behaviour.
To the heart of the issue. As I understand it, one should be punished here for not being sympathetic?
I dont think its the fact that he wasn't sympathetic I think its the fact that he said he thought a five year old being maimed was funny and I guess the mods didnt like how he behaved so he got a warning. He could have just went on with his business and not said anything but he chose to say it was funny. He should have kept his comments to himself.:book:
Wasn`t the "humor" about centered about the fact that it happened twice? Sounds like one of many comedies.
Ser Clegane
05-18-2006, 20:57
Wasn`t the "humor" about centered about the fact that it happened twice? Sounds like one of many comedies.
No it wasn't:
Your don't have my sense of humour do you. That story is about pain, suffering, blind opimism, irony, and dismemberment. All things I find the height of hilarity.
Also, I challenge you to show me the "many comedies" that use the repeated suffering of a little child as a "joke"
Craterus
05-18-2006, 20:59
That's true. And surely you can't help what you find funny? But whatever, he got the warning(s) and I don't think that'll be changed.
Ser Clegane
05-18-2006, 21:00
That's true. And surely you can't help what you find funny?
No - you indeed cannot help what you find funny, however, you can reffrain from wallowing in it by making multiple posts about how hilarious you consider the suffering of little children to be. :no:
No it wasn't:
Your don't have my sense of humour do you. That story is about pain, suffering, blind opimism, irony, and dismemberment. All things I find the height of hilarity.
Also, I challenge you to show me the "many comedies" that use the repeated suffering of a little child as a "joke"
Well, ok then; not much to discuss there. But I struggle finding that this is more absurd than Jackass, although this being more disgusting.
If Jackass is allowed here, that is.
edyzmedieval
05-18-2006, 21:57
No - you indeed cannot help what you find funny, however, you can reffrain from wallowing in it by making multiple posts about how hilarious you consider the suffering of little children to be. :no:
It's really shameful to laugh at small children being run over by a car. :shame:
Don Corleone
05-18-2006, 22:21
It's a sad state of affairs if you all have confused individual liberty with the ability to be as tastless as your care to be, especially in places where you have been advised not to.
Freedom of speech in a society does NOT mean that your message need be accepted by all that hear it, it simply means that the government cannot prohibit you from uttering it. Nothing of that sort happened here.
Lars made some rather tasteless comments about the pain and suffering of a young girl and how amusing he found it. He was asked to refrain from doing so by the people that 'own' this board, in effect the possesors of this private property, and when he refused, he was issued a warning. Amazingly, you seem to feel that his rights have been violated.
Do I have the 'right' to walk into your living room and tell your mother how funny I think it is that your little sister suffered crippling, painful injuries, even after your father has asked me repeatedly not to? Is this a free society or not?
InsaneApache
05-18-2006, 23:15
I have to wonder how many members defending Lars have children/grand-children. Might explain the responses.
Lars made some rather tasteless comments about the pain and suffering of a young girl and how amusing he found it. He was asked to refrain from doing so by the people that 'own' this board,
Where?
Kagemusha
05-19-2006, 04:12
Where?
If you want to live by your own set of values that contradict the values of the majority of this forum your cause is lost. Face it what if you would have for example an sister and she would be run over by car.Would it be funny for you that some people would laugh to your "sisters" death?
If Lars did the same thing to someone that wasnt necessarily anybodys sister or child around here.What difference does it make? I would like to say something to both of you but i would only get warning from that.If you want to know what i think of you and your buddys behaviour pm me.:shame:
KukriKhan
05-19-2006, 12:39
So, to sum up: One member asked for an explanation for a warning issued to another member in the backroom.
Explanation was provided.
Details of the explanation were disputed; the intentions of both the warned member and warning staffer were examined and argued, from several points of view.
This thread has had daily postings since its start 10 May. Today is 19 May, and further actual fruitful discussion seems unlikely to me. I acknowledge that not everyone will be satisfied with the decision, but I feel I must close this thread before anyone further crosses the line from discussion into personal criticism/flame.
Some excellent points have been made here, and much food for thought offered to us all - I thank all contributors for your input :bow:
Thread closed. Any further discussion via PM, please.
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