Chinese concentration camps uncovered

[Rodion Romanovich]

Warning! Possibly offensive images: http://www.flghrwg.net/

Apparently several physicians are witnessing about the existence of hidden concentration camps in China, in which exist organ theft, torture, starvation, labor, and murder. Has anyone else heard of this, and how reliable is this information? If this is true, then it sounds like the worst thing since Nazi concentration camps during ww2 and the Gulag archipelago. Can anybody tell me if this is reliable information, because I hadn't heard of this until I accidentally stumbled on the information.

[TB666]

Nah, it is true.
I heard about this before especially the details about organ theft.
It ain't pretty.

[DemonArchangel]

It's FALUN GONG website.

For crap's sake, if you believe those nutjob cultists....:dizzy2:

[Rodion Romanovich]

It's FALUN GONG website.

For crap's sake, if you believe those nutjob cultists....:dizzy2:

well, I'm asking whether it's reliable sources or not. I just accidentally stumbled on this website and haven't seen it elsewhere. I'm also wondering what falun gong is, I heard the name a few years ago but never really got what it was. A sort of "physical exercise with some spiritual elements", is what I heard then. But the fact that UN was preparing some kind of report on this sounds like there might be something in this after all.

[master of the puppets]

um...duh there red china!, course the commies are gonna have concentration camps.

[BHCWarman88]

Happy days are here again...........

[Keba]

Even if true, there is no way anyone would actually do anything about it. All totalitarian regimes need to do something about political undesirables, a place where they can be isolated without any others to whom to spread their ideals, so the existance of concentration camps is likely.

While I am not sure about the veracity of the linked page, it is quite possibly true (if to a somewhat lesser extent than presented). However, this is not a situation in any way akin to WWII, for the simple reason that China is a nuclear and economic superpower. Sanctions would hurt the west more than China, and war is out of the question.

EDIT:Just some wording.

[Mount Suribachi]

Just go and check out the websites of people like Amnesty International and Open Doors. China has been doing this kind of stuff for years not just to the Falun Gong, but to Christians, and anyone else they deem a threat.

[Zalmoxis]

So overall it isn't, or at least shouldn't be surprising. I think they should not be allowed to do this by the other governments of the worlds, forced to stop if need be, but that's just me.

[Tachikaze]

I was going to start a thread like this myself. The Fulan Gong are handing out flyers in downtown San Diego to inform us of it. I pursued the matter from independent sources, and it seems like no one doubts it.

[Avicenna]

Not sure if it's completely reliable though, because the Falun Gong do hate the Chinese government, and generally if you hate someone/something your judgement about him/her/it is going to be clouded. The Falun Gong are bad news, as are the Chinese government in a few ways. Anyway, the CIA have something like this overseas, not including Guantanamo. There probably isn't a single large country that hasn't got facilities like this, it's just a question of the scale.

Warman: that kind of a post might be offending ot some people.. try not to post like that please.

[Duke John]

You could always try avoiding buying things from China, if you have principles.

[Rodion Romanovich]

You could always try avoiding buying things from China, if you have principles.

Yes, that might be necessary. The odd thing is that there seems to be no media cover of this... After all if it's true it should be one of the most sensational and horrible news of this decade.



the CIA have something like this overseas, not including Guantanamo. There probably isn't a single large country that hasn't got facilities like this, it's just a question of the scale.


Well, a country which tries to appear as democratic can't have this without degrading themselves into totalitarianism. I don't think too many of the West European countries are involved in this kind of thing for people who are citizens but protest against the regime, but there have been a few cases of colonial states using camps against rebels in the colonies that they refused to give up. However there's nothing indicating that death camps would be widespread. All these camps are borderline cases between rebels/terrorists and people who just give their opinion or happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time and look like guilty of something. In a way it's comforting that all these cases at least have some form of rebel/terrorism connection, which means it's clear the leaders are nutcases, but it's easy to trace where their nutcase thoughts came from, i.e. from a real fear being exaggerated to also incorporate innocents. It's worse when they step even further over the line and just genocide arbitrarily. However, the dangerous thing is that they gradually move further and further over the line, so they're already persecuting, torturing and/or murdering several innocents. The fact that they're doing the persecution based on fear of things that they think threaten the regime, at least gives some hope that it's possible to convince them of stopping to persecute innocents, by finding better mechanisms and laws for determining when it's real guilt/danger, and when it's innocence. As long as countries perseucte as arbitrarily as they are now, nation-wide trade embargoes or at least individual customers boycotting can be expected, when the consumers get the information. One principle that consumers and other nations may demand without compromising security for these dictators, is that the internment should be humane until there has been proof of guilt, and that there should be proper trials. What amazes me so much is that those responsible for such horrible camps keep insisting that they should be painful for their victims, and that it should also apply to those who are innocent before their guilt has been shown. There's no logic at all in that. If they want to punish and set examples, they're only undermining the credibility of those examples by each innocent they hurt. If they want to hurt the guilty they can just keep them humanely during the period when they try to find out whether the victim is guilty or not, and after that move them to more horrible treatment. But hurting innocents in any form of camps is undermining credibility. If you as a regime hurt too many innocents when setting examples against those rebels you want to scare, you eventually pass a line where people are more afraid of being punished while innocent than they're afraid of dying in rebellion. The horrible thing is, for every rebellion and dictatorship, the bravest who seek justice most fiercely die, while the cowards who like to be oppressed and accept it survive. No wonder our moral values and hatred of oppression is undermined every century if our society form in "civilization" creates an evolutionary pressure that tends to kill those who believe in justice and spare those who believe in oppression.

[cegorach]

It is true for sure - I made extensive research based on several sources - the camps do exist and will as long as the political system in China will be changed - which won't happen today, unfortunatelly.

Regards Cegorach :book:

[Divinus Arma]

Falun Gong and Falun Dafa are synonymous and interchangeable terms for the same thing. They believe:


Beliefs:

As noted below, homosexuality is degenerate behavior, on a par with sexual promiscuity.
As noted below, illness is caused by the indwelling of "an intelligent entity that exists in another dimension."
The body's vital energy, Qi, can be focused to improve one's health and sense of well being. But it can also "be used to develop the ability to fly, to move objects by telekinesis, and to heal diseases." 12
"...the Falun, or Dharma Wheel, and is described by Mr. Li as a miniature of the cosmos that he says he installs telekinetically in the abdomens of all his followers, where it rotates in alternating directions, throwing off bad karma and gathering qi. Many Falun Gong adherents say they can feel the wheel turning in their bellies." 13
Eighty-one previous human civilizations had achieved a higher level of scientific achievement than we enjoy at the present time. However, they were all "left in complete destruction." 12
A person with qigong training can walk through solid objects, like a wall.
A qigong master emits "gong:" a "high-energy substance that manifests in the form of light."
Individuals with some qigong training can exhibit super-human abilities: clairaudience, telepathy, precognition, etc. But it takes a qigong master to achieve certain functionality, like alchemy -- the ability to transform one type of substance to another. The latter could tear down a large building using mental power only. They would never do this in practice, because it is forbidden for them to demonstrate their powers. Also, such destruction would cause harm. 10
Karma is a type of black material that encompasses each person's body. It has a physical existence "in another dimension and can transform into sickness or misfortune."
Qigong practitioners can open their "tianmu" -- third eye. When the passage between their third eye and pineal gland can take many shapes: "oval, to round, rhombic to triangular." A practitioner can see things beyond this world. However, the functioning of the third eye is inhibited at certain practical levels. For example, they are unable to see through walls or clothes, because such a talent would be disruptive to society.
Normal people are aware of only three dimensional existence -- four if you include time. However, a qigong master can see "dozens of levels of dimensions." Time shifting is also possible. 10
There are many living entities on earth that appear to be humans, but in fact are aliens.


http://www.religioustolerance.org/falungong1.htm

I didn't know anything about them. Certainly seems to be an odd group, though I wouldn't agree with interfering with their spiritual practices.

[rory_20_uk]

We pick on small countries we can bully or ignore. Those that are big and powerful we tend to overlook small things such as the death of loads of people.

Here in the UK the police even arrested protesters against the Chinese Premier. OK, so about 6 months later the report found that the police had acted illegally, but then it was of course too late...

It is not merely the Chinese politics that caused this. Loads of other countries do it to, and we don't seem to care that much. The USA is on pretty shakey grounds and nothing is being done about that (a quick chat with the UN doesn't count, as the USA will veto any motion that dares criticise in any case).

~:smoking:

[Avicenna]

The UN will never be successful. For example, even though the American war in Iraq had violated whatever they signed when forming/joining the UN which said something along the lines of having to agree before going to war, the UN has done nothing. Other countries have even joined in, just to gain America's friendship. What can the UN do anyway? All it's troops are provided by its members, and a large chunk of its money comes from America.

Legio: that's why they keep it secret. It was unknown until recently that the CIA had kept hostages in foreign countries, but it was no surprise really. Also, the fear is not of dying in a rebellion. The fear is usually being captured and then 'punished' afterwards.

[Rodion Romanovich]

Legio: that's why they keep it secret. It was unknown until recently that the CIA had kept hostages in foreign countries, but it was no surprise really. Also, the fear is not of dying in a rebellion. The fear is usually being captured and then 'punished' afterwards.

yes, that's what I meant with fear of dying in rebellion...

Anyway I don't think that most countries have such facilities. As I explained, both CIA and China have some sort of "society security" concern as their rationale behind their camps. CIA base it on terrorism, which is a real and existing threat, but the camp system has hurt several innocents (for example they tie all captives up so they can hardly move, forcing them to stand on their knees, and cover their eyes with a cloth), and the Chinese government feels threatened by the Falun Gong movement. Both camps are a result of fear, and most countries don't have fears similar to these, and their leaders thus have no motivation for creating such camps. I've so far heard nothing of any crime carried out by the Falun Gong movement, so the Chinese camps seem completely arbitrary. The CIA camps are somewhat better in that there has been some good thought behind it as they're supposed to be for terrorists, but we've also seen that the system has allowed several innocents to end up in these camps, which shows it has serious flaws. If there's a desire to punish terrorists hard to scare others from becoming terrorists, it's probaby more effective and would be considered just in the eyes of ordinary people if a more civilized prison was used to keep the captives until their guilt has been established, rather than immediately moving them to stand on their knees, cloth before eyes, and being tied up so they can't move. The Chinese camps are however more startling, as I can't seem to find any info on violent or otherwise illegal actions from the Falun Gong movement, which means their only "crime" is that they have spoken negatively of the Chinese regime. While the CIA camps might still have good though behind them, but it's bad organization and coordination between the deparments that decide upon internment and those that handle the prisoners (so that those who capture also capture innocents, while those who handle the prisoners assume all prisoners that are sent to them are already guilty) that have made them lead to failures, these Chinese camps seem to be a case of pure anti-democratic terror.

[Divinus Arma]

That's right. America is the dominant force on the earth and you had best learn your place. You are merely our subjects and live under the illusion of sovereignty and self-determination. Bow to our might and maybe we will let you enjoy McDonalds, Coca-cola, Microsoft Windows, and iPod. If you are really lucky, you will benefit from our giant evil pharmaceutical companies that have dicovered countless drugs that have bettered the lives of hundreds of milions of people.

Soon, the world will be united under one flag: 13 stripes and several hundred stars.