Another 900 years of culture bites the dust.

[Fragony]

Well, after the removal of a christian symbole from a war-monument to prevent muslims from igniting the multicultists decided that the Netherlands is still a pretty nice country to live, how dare we.

The symbol of the southern provinve 'Noord Brabant' is the wild boar, and it has been quite some time. Now, happy birthday Noord Brabant, you are 900 ears old congrats! That calls for a party, and a nice party needs a nice symbol, so why not the one that has been the provincial symbol for 900 years? Problem is, a wild boar is basicly a pig, guess who might take offence? Correct, you guys are getting better at this. Multicultists of Holland, rise and proudly proclaim, Ich Bin Laden. Long live Lalaland.

[Ser Clegane]

Problem is, a wild boar is basicly a pig, guess who might take offence? Correct, you guys are getting better at this. Multicultists of Holland, rise and proudly proclaim, Ich Bin Laden. Long live Lalaland.

This sounds quite absurd - can you provide some more background what happened there?

This rather seems to be a problem of "non-culti" than of "multi-culti"...

[Fragony]

This sounds quite absurd - can you provide some more background what happened there?

This rather seems to be a problem of "non-culti" than of "multi-culti"...

What I said is what happened, the logo got the no because a pig was potentially offensive to muslims.

http://telegraaf-i.telegraaf.nl/daily/2006/5/12/TE/login.php?id=22114759991611475999162067627591

it's a pay site, but bugmenot will probably work. Here is the most important part,

„Weet je wat ze tegen medewerkers vertelde?” zegt hij luidkeels. „Ze wil Brabant niet associëren met een varken, want dat vindt ze niet netjes tegenover de moslimbevolking in Brabant. Nou, dat is toch gewoon een lachwekkende argumentatie? Islamieten eten geen varkensvlees, maar je mag wel naar een zwijn kijken!”

And ya, it is non culture, but only if it's our own. Every time I think the multicultists couldn't become more insane they surprise me. Basicly they are calling every muslim a potential terrorist, I wonder if they thought of that.

[Ser Clegane]

What I said is what happened, the logo got the no because a pig was potentially offensive to muslims.

http://telegraaf-i.telegraaf.nl/daily/2006/5/12/TE/login.php?id=22114759991611475999162067627591

it's a pay site, but bugmenot will probably work. Here is the most important part,

„Weet je wat ze tegen medewerkers vertelde?” zegt hij luidkeels. „Ze wil Brabant niet associëren met een varken, want dat vindt ze niet netjes tegenover de moslimbevolking in Brabant. Nou, dat is toch gewoon een lachwekkende argumentatie? Islamieten eten geen varkensvlees, maar je mag wel naar een zwijn kijken!”

And ya, it is non culture, but only if it's our own. Every time I think the multicultists couldn't become more insane they surprise me. Basicly they are calling every muslim a potential terrorist, I wonder if they thought of that.

:inquisitive:

So this is (once again) something that is not driven by muslims but by people who claim to be acting out of concern for muslim feelings (if my limited understanding of the Dutch language does not betray me)?

[Fragony]

:inquisitive:

So this is (once again) something that is not driven by muslims but by people who claim to be acting out of concern for muslim feelings (if my limited understanding of the Dutch language does not betray me)?

You are correct, as far as I know no muslim asked for this (but it is not true for the christian cross story). Have they gone completily bonkers or is it just me? How on earth will this multiculti-nonsense ever work with all these 'sorry I am me' multicultist fools?

hmmm, this looks old

(Deleted hotlink pic - Beirut)

[LeftEyeNine]

I think Muslims with common sense over there should organize for its re-depictation..What's up with that pig ? This action is totally provocative, let alone it being done in order to keep away from any conflicts.

If there is some website or something against it, please let us know so that we can write down some lines in the guestbook.

[Fragony]

If there is some website or something against it, please let us know so that we can write down some lines in the guestbook.

You can share your thoughts with her here, I would greatly apreciate that. I hope the other muslim orgers have the same idea.
http://hanjamaijweggen.politicusonline.nl/index.cfm?pid=244

(Deleted hotlink pic - Beirut)

[Louis VI the Fat]

The wild boar is an even older symbol of Celtic origin. At Yule one was sacrificed and served with an apple in his mouth. Those of you familiar with 'Asterix' will get the picture.

The boar was a major symbol for the Celts living in the northern forests, in what is now Northern France, Belgium and the Netherlands. The symbol has survived 1500 years of Christianity. That it should now be scrapped in festivities after 30 years of Islam is intolerable.

I've got no links in English either, but I can confirm what Fragony said though. The Belgian newspapers reported it too (half of Brabant is a Belgian province).

Brussels, the capitol of Europe, will not use it's own symbol -one more ancient than the Roman Empire - to celebrate it's history, in a bid to not offend muslims. It's self-cencorship gone astray.

[Louis VI the Fat]

So this is (once again) something that is not driven by muslims but by people who claim to be acting out of concern for muslim feelings?That is my interpretation too. I highly doubt there is a Muslim pressure group demanding the removal of wild boar symbols.

It is silly, it portrays Muslims as fanatics when most probably couldn't care any less.

[LeftEyeNine]

You can share your thoughts with her here, I would greatly apreciate that. I hope the other muslim orgers have the same idea.
http://hanjamaijweggen.politicusonline.nl/index.cfm?pid=244

(Deleted hotlink pic - Beirut)

The form requests a valid postcode which I guess to be a local one :inquisitive:

[Taffy_is_a_Taff]

The form requests a valid postcode which I guess to be a local one :inquisitive:

look up a random one, like a store's address in the area.

[Louis VI the Fat]

Ah, been reading about it a bit more. Brabant is celebrating it's 900th anniversary as a duchy. The logo they planned to use featured a boar, but this was vetoed by Maij-Weggen, the Dutch head of the province of North Brabant. In Belgian Brabant, some cities are still using the boar because the promotional material was already printed.

There is some speculation about her reasons for dropping the boar. North-Brabant is the pig-capital of Europe, they have some five million of them, and some two million people. A bit similar to New Zealand and sheep. Brabant is often unfavourably linked to pigs. She does not want Brabant to be associated with pigs anymore, and wants to stress a more modern, industralised Brabant.

She could not legitimize the removal of an ancient symbol because of her personal obsession with Brabant's public image. Possibly, she came up with the 'insulted Muslims' argument only afterwards, as a hypocritical excuse. No Muslim organization ever asked for the removal of that boar.

I think she used the Muslims as a scapegoat, to push her own agenda. What an irresponsable, hypocritical woman, claiming to show sensitivity to Muslims when the result is they get portrayed as fanatics and potential terrorists.

[Kralizec]

The fuss about the cross monument was that several jews and muslims complained not so much that they found it offensive, but that they did not recognise themselves in it. I don't think they even asked for its removal.
Mind you, the decision has fortunately been reversed.

[Fragony]

She could not legitimize the removal of an ancient symbol because of her personal obsession with Brabant's public image. Possibly, she came up with the 'insulted Muslims' argument only afterwards, as a hypocritical excuse. No Muslim organization ever asked for the removal of that boar.

I think she used the Muslims as a scapegoat, to push her own agenda. What an irresponsable, hypocritical woman, claiming to show sensitivity to Muslims when the result is they get portrayed as fanatics and potential terrorists.

I think you are right, she is known for her arrogance. She is directly responsible for two of the greatest financial mistakes ever (Betuwelijn/carpoolstrip), she just didn't want to give up her prestige-projects. It amazes me she has a function this high after the screaming incompetance she has shown so far, I guess they gave her a tactical promotion to get rid of her. This is complitely irresponsible, it isn't like there wasn't any tension to start with.

[Duke Malcolm]

The fuss about the cross monument was that several jews and muslims complained not so much that they found it offensive, but that they did not recognise themselves in it. I don't think they even asked for its removal.

Isn't that insensitive to those who died? They would have been Christians, yes? Hence it is for those who died, not those who live to see the monument.

[Vladimir]

I was thinking that being a Muslim today must be like a Cristian living during Oliver Cromwell's day. Oi! What histeria! People really need to chill out. ~:pimp:

[English assassin]

OT but not:

A little thing that happened to me yesterday. I needed to know whether or not it is generally agreed by muslims to be a religious requirement for a man not to be clean shaven, and if so whether this was considered merely desirable, or whether it was a strict requirement. So I sent an email asking that question, in essentially those terms.

I also added a jokey reference to not wanting to ask a particular muslim member of my family, as the fact that he drank whisky made me suspect he wasn't the best person to comment on muslim religious observance. (NB this person does exist and he does drink whisky)

Harmless, yes? Oh no. Apparently we have a muslim member of staff who had taken out a formal grievance against the firm because, get this, we serve too much alcohol at staff parties. And here I was referring to muslims !! and Alcohol !! Outrage !! I'd say the excrement hit the fan but excrement is unclean so I'd better not.

(Obviously a readiness to take offence on religious grounds absolves you from the need to be consistent, since my very point was that as this person drank alcohol he wasn't a very observant muslim, but I digress.)

I tell you what, my friends, I don't know if it is a minority of muslims, or the laws we have passed to accommodate them, or our own pussy-footing approach to those laws and pathetic complaints under them, but this morning I am THAT CLOSE to saying we have made a major problem for ourselves.

[King Ragnar]

Stuff like this makes me sick, were not allowed nativity plays or xmas trees in london now, i mean what the hell is going on, its getting worse and worse, thank god i dont live in london or anywhere further south then i do or i would go crazy.

[Tribesman]

Stuff like this makes me sick, were not allowed nativity plays or xmas trees in london now, i mean what the hell is going on, its getting worse and worse, thank god i dont live in london or anywhere further south then i do or i would go crazy.

Too late , it appears you may have gone crazy already since Christmas trees and nativity plays are allowed in London .:dizzy2:
Then again you might be on to something there though , a return to traditional culture , banning some of the frivolities associated with Christmas , like during the Commonwealth .
Or perhaps getting rid of the foriegn culture that has been introduced to your culture , like Christmas trees:idea2:

[Duke Malcolm]

Stuff like this makes me sick, were not allowed nativity plays or xmas trees in london now, i mean what the hell is going on, its getting worse and worse, thank god i dont live in london or anywhere further south then i do or i would go crazy.

It seems like you have been reading the Daily Mail a little too much.

[Leet Eriksson]

god, these multiculturals need to be slapped.

You can touch, pet, hug, and kiss a pig, you can even see them! You just can't eat them, but its alright, i can stand in a pigsty all day without allah blasting me for it.

they are taking the issue too far now :furious3:

Lets hope some idiot muslims don't pick their idea up and start cuasing trouble.

[Marcellus]

Stuff like this makes me sick, were not allowed nativity plays or xmas trees in london now, i mean what the hell is going on, its getting worse and worse, thank god i dont live in london or anywhere further south then i do or i would go crazy.

As a Londoner, I can personally vouch that there are plenty of Christmas trees about in London (in public places) at Christmas. I really don't know where you got this idea from, although Duke Malcolm's suggestion of the Daily Mail seems likely.

[AntiochusIII]

god, these multiculturals need to be slapped.

You can touch, pet, hug, and kiss a pig, you can even see them! You just can't eat them, but its alright, i can stand in a pigsty all day without allah blasting me for it.

they are taking the issue too far now :furious3:

Lets hope some idiot muslims don't pick their idea up and start cuasing trouble. ~:)

I can imagine you standing in a pigsty all day, my friend. That would be so picturesque: the man in the desert in the pigsty with the pigs.

*makes notes in the writer's notebook for ideas*

By the way, out of interest, does the Qur'an justify the reasons behind the ban, or simply state it? I could imagine practical reasons but...

[Watchman]

Among the theories I've heard about the underlying reasons for that are the comparative similarity of a pig's skin to that of humans and resulting easily imaginable associations, the fact they tend to eat much the same food as humans and due economical considerations, and the somewhat convoluted logic probably stemming from the rather strange "unpleasant in the eyes of God" listings in the Old Testament which apparently mainly have to do with classificatory categories, and animals that don't neatly fit into them (ie. bats are "bad" because they fly, but aren't birds; pigs are "bad" because they're cloven-hoofed, but don't graze like others of the kind; snakes are "bad" because they're land animals but lack legs, etc.).

But damned if I know, nevermind now what the various Scriptures themselves say about it. If someone does, I'm all ears (well, eyes).

[English assassin]

Stuff like this makes me sick, were not allowed nativity plays or xmas trees in london now, i mean what the hell is going on, its getting worse and worse, thank god i dont live in london or anywhere further south then i do or i would go crazy.

Too late , it appears you may have gone crazy already since Christmas trees and nativity plays are allowed in London .:dizzy2:
Then again you might be on to something there though , a return to traditional culture , banning some of the frivolities associated with Christmas , like during the Commonwealth .
Or perhaps getting rid of the foriegn culture that has been introduced to your culture , like Christmas trees:idea2:


Yeah yeah, all well and good and fair warning, but Birmingham city councuil DID insist on calling Christmas "Winterval" http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/210672.stm and anyone who gets a "christmas" card from a local authority that actually contains the word "christmas", as opposed to "seasons greetings" or "happy holidays" should auction it on ebay, it would be worth a fortune for rarity value.

The issue, Tribesman, is not that we want to purge foreign cultures from the UK, that would be insane, boring, oh yes and impossible. What we want is to be able to celebrate christmas, or serve alcohol at an office party, or have a pig on a poster without some git popping up and saying that because HIS religious beliefs stop HIM having a tree or drinking a beer, we all have to stop too.

Is that too much to ask? A bit of toleration in return for the toleration we are asked to show? I dont think so.

[Leet Eriksson]

~:)

I can imagine you standing in a pigsty all day, my friend. That would be so picturesque: the man in the desert in the pigsty with the pigs.

*makes notes in the writer's notebook for ideas*

By the way, out of interest, does the Qur'an justify the reasons behind the ban, or simply state it? I could imagine practical reasons but...

Watchman got somethings down, the thing is, its forbidden becuase its forbidden in the Qur'an, without reasoning, here are the surahs:

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/002.qmt.html#002.173
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/005.qmt.html#005.003
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/006.qmt.html#006.145
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/016.qmt.html#016.115

For sunni muslims, we have to rely on hadith to explain these reasons, i'm not sure which hadith it was, but the prophet stated that its dirty, eating its own excrements, and carries diseases, for a 7th century mindset that was convincing enough ~;p

Some religious types though are debating if its ok to eat pork now that their meat can be cleaned using technology :dizzy2: not sure if they reached a consensus on it yet.However in extreme conditions, say you are with a bunch of people, and all you had was booze and pork, you can eat it.

[Duke Malcolm]

However in extreme conditions, say you are with a bunch of people, and all you had was booze and pork, you can eat it.

It reminds me of a Saturday night...

[Fragony]

god, these multiculturals need to be slapped.


If you keep going like this I have no choise but kicking you and your family out of your country and bringing you to Dutchiestan!

[Mount Suribachi]

I was thinking that being a Muslim today must be like a Cristian living during Oliver Cromwell's day.

Um, I think you mean a Roman Catholic in Cromwells day? Cromwell was a Puritan, an ultra-hardcore christian, and to be fair to him he was quite tolerant of other Christian denominations and even reversed centuries of Jewish persecution. But Roman Catholics, not so tolerant ~;)

As for the pig thing, its kinda like the bank (Natwest?) last year who removed a "free piggy bank with every childrens account" offer for fear of offending muslims.... :help: (and I didn't read that in the Daily Mail :book: )

[Leet Eriksson]

Um, I think you mean a Roman Catholic in Cromwells day? Cromwell was a Puritan, an ultra-hardcore christian, and to be fair to him he was quite tolerant of other Christian denominations and even reversed centuries of Jewish persecution. But Roman Catholics, not so tolerant ~;)

As for the pig thing, its kinda like the bank (Natwest?) last year who removed a "free piggy bank with every childrens account" offer for fear of offending muslims.... :help: (and I didn't read that in the Daily Mail :book: )

Thats pretty silly :dizzy2:

I had my own piggy bank when i was a kid, so did other kids.


If you keep going like this I have no choise but kicking you and your family out of your country and bringing you to Dutchiestan!

I'd like to visit holland one time, i heard nothing but praise from friends visiting the country ~:)

[Duke of Gloucester]

A wild boar, especially a white one, is, of course, and excellent symbol.

The really annoying thing here is that it isn't Muslems who are asking for this symbol to be removed. It is stupid (or perhaps mendacious) people who think they are accommodating people of other faiths when in fact they are just adding fuel to the Daily Mail bigotry furnace.:furious3:

[Fragony]

especially a white one, is, of course, an excellent symbol.


Slippery slope mia muca.

[Tribesman]

Yeah yeah, all well and good and fair warning, but Birmingham city councuil DID insist on calling Christmas "Winterval" http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/210672.stm and anyone who gets a "christmas" card from a local authority that actually contains the word "christmas", as opposed to "seasons greetings" or "happy holidays" should auction it on ebay, it would be worth a fortune for rarity value.

E.A. , hold on , Christmas , Winterval or whatever . What the hell is a local authority sending out any sort of card for ?
How is that put in the authorities budget , and how is it part of any of the elected officials duties or responsiblilities to waste money sending residents celebratory cards ?

The issue, Tribesman, is not that we want to purge foreign cultures from the UK, that would be insane, boring, oh yes and impossible.
Impossible , yes , Christmas-foriegn , Christmas trees-foriegn , Christianity/Judaism /Islam-errrr...thats all foriegn as well isn't it ?
But Wild Boars , that's not foriegn at all , so on that issue I have to agree with Frag .
So unite under the boarish banner , paint yourself blue and go naked into the street to protest for your culture , but wear some clogs .~;)

[Duke of Gloucester]

Slippery slope mia muca.
~:confused:

more like an obscure historical reference:

A former Duke of Gloucester (maybe not the best person to choose to be named after, though) (http://www.englishmonarchs.co.uk/plantagenet_14.htm)

[English assassin]

How is that put in the authorities budget , and how is it part of any of the elected officials duties or responsiblilities to waste money sending residents celebratory cards ?

Community relations

Still, I like your idea. Only thing is should the council pay for me to have a chariot to get in touch with my inner Briton, or a longboat for the Saxon in me? Do I worship Lud or Woden? Tricky stuff, you wouldn't want to get on the wrong side of these pagan gods, they don't mess about. I demand a course at public expense so I can choose.

[Tribesman]

Ah ...community relations , so in that case perhaps Birminghams proposals are very sensible .
It is after all a very big city full of lots of different people , just imagine the furore it would cause if the council sent a Christmas card to a Jehovas Witness .:oops: