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Lemur
05-18-2006, 21:06
Bruce Schneier (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruce_Schneier), encryption and security god, author of Applied Cryptography (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0471117099/ref=pd_sim_b_2/002-1615300-2042401?%5Fencoding=UTF8&v=glance&n=283155), and author of the best generalist book on modern security I've ever read (Beyond Fear (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0387026207/sr=8-1/qid=1147982409/ref=pd_bbs_1/002-1615300-2042401?%5Fencoding=UTF8)), has written a short rebuttal to those in our midst who argue that privacy is a luxury, and that if you're not doing something naughty, you have no need of secrecy.

As usual, I'm interested in the Org's take on the subject.

Linky. (http://www.wired.com/news/columns/0,70886-0.html?tw=rss.index)

The Eternal Value of Privacy
By Bruce Schneier

The most common retort against privacy advocates -- by those in favor of ID checks, cameras, databases, data mining and other wholesale surveillance measures -- is this line: "If you aren't doing anything wrong, what do you have to hide?"

Some clever answers: "If I'm not doing anything wrong, then you have no cause to watch me." "Because the government gets to define what's wrong, and they keep changing the definition." "Because you might do something wrong with my information." My problem with quips like these -- as right as they are -- is that they accept the premise that privacy is about hiding a wrong. It's not. Privacy is an inherent human right, and a requirement for maintaining the human condition with dignity and respect.

Two proverbs say it best: Quis custodiet custodes ipsos? ("Who watches the watchers?") and "Absolute power corrupts absolutely."

Cardinal Richelieu understood the value of surveillance when he famously said, "If one would give me six lines written by the hand of the most honest man, I would find something in them to have him hanged." Watch someone long enough, and you'll find something to arrest -- or just blackmail -- with. Privacy is important because without it, surveillance information will be abused: to peep, to sell to marketers and to spy on political enemies -- whoever they happen to be at the time.

Privacy protects us from abuses by those in power, even if we're doing nothing wrong at the time of surveillance.

We do nothing wrong when we make love or go to the bathroom. We are not deliberately hiding anything when we seek out private places for reflection or conversation. We keep private journals, sing in the privacy of the shower, and write letters to secret lovers and then burn them. Privacy is a basic human need.

A future in which privacy would face constant assault was so alien to the framers of the Constitution that it never occurred to them to call out privacy as an explicit right. Privacy was inherent to the nobility of their being and their cause. Of course being watched in your own home was unreasonable. Watching at all was an act so unseemly as to be inconceivable among gentlemen in their day. You watched convicted criminals, not free citizens. You ruled your own home. It's intrinsic to the concept of liberty.

For if we are observed in all matters, we are constantly under threat of correction, judgment, criticism, even plagiarism of our own uniqueness. We become children, fettered under watchful eyes, constantly fearful that -- either now or in the uncertain future -- patterns we leave behind will be brought back to implicate us, by whatever authority has now become focused upon our once-private and innocent acts. We lose our individuality, because everything we do is observable and recordable.

How many of us have paused during conversation in the past four-and-a-half years, suddenly aware that we might be eavesdropped on? Probably it was a phone conversation, although maybe it was an e-mail or instant-message exchange or a conversation in a public place. Maybe the topic was terrorism, or politics, or Islam. We stop suddenly, momentarily afraid that our words might be taken out of context, then we laugh at our paranoia and go on. But our demeanor has changed, and our words are subtly altered.

This is the loss of freedom we face when our privacy is taken from us. This is life in former East Germany, or life in Saddam Hussein's Iraq. And it's our future as we allow an ever-intrusive eye into our personal, private lives.

Too many wrongly characterize the debate as "security versus privacy." The real choice is liberty versus control. Tyranny, whether it arises under threat of foreign physical attack or under constant domestic authoritative scrutiny, is still tyranny. Liberty requires security without intrusion, security plus privacy. Widespread police surveillance is the very definition of a police state. And that's why we should champion privacy even when we have nothing to hide.

Major Robert Dump
05-18-2006, 21:17
The people who say that are the same people who throw a fit when they get a picture in the mail of their car running a red light and a $100 ticket. All of us break laws to one extent or another, and advocates of spying on citizens want us to believe that law enforcemnt doesn't communicate to other agencies or investigate crimes they catch under a law that they weren't implicitly looking for.

I have no reason to believe that an NSA official listening to a potential "terrorist" would not report said individual to the IRS if the individual mentioned mowing lawns on the weekend and not paying taxes on the income. So he turns out not to be a terorist, but he gets audited because of a practice to stop something he wasn't do it. It's as gay as seat belt laws, which are designed to give cops a reason to pul people over and give them 40 other tickets yet its vieled as public safety. It's the same reason meth lab operators and racketeers can be charged under the patriot act, instead of using normal police work and laws to do it.

Blodrast
05-19-2006, 00:14
Even though I don't post too often, I've posted in enough similar topics lately so that I am not sure I can bring any new stuff at the table.
My position has always been crystal clear on this: I completely disagree with all these excuses for intrusion and for diminishing your privacy. The two proverbs illustrate some of the reasons why these are bad, but I guess the real gist of it is shown later on in the article: all these things change your life, the way you talk, the way you think, the way you act.
Anybody living in the US with a little objectivity can take a look and point out the differences between the pre-9/11 era, and the post 9/11 one. It's quite visible to people outside the US, as well, given all the issues with airports, no-fly lists, etc.

One of you had this quote in his/her sig, I don't remember to whom the quote belongs. It went along the lines "Those who so easily give up their freedom don't deserve it.".
That pretty much sums it up.
All proponents of all this uber-surveillance and govenrment complete control over everything you do, everywhere you go, everything you say/write, etc, should keep in mind that it might be them one day who suffer the consequences of these laws/rules. And it changes all of our lives, innocent or not. I'm not sure you'll enjoy being fined or punished for going "out of line" just a little bit, or seeing complete strangers have access and using your most private information...

Oh, and if you have complete utter faith in the "system", please watch "Brazil" again.
I'm not even bringing 1984 into this...

It is really sad how people can really, truly believe that all of this surveillance, and reduction in privacy, will somehow make their lives better. It's utter, complete delusion.
Having your entire life watched and under the watchful eye of - well, you won't even know who it is, who can access that information -, will NOT make you feel better, or safer, or more at ease or at peace. On the contrary.
I honestly cannot understand how one can delude oneself so completely.