Tank Forcefield

[Alexanderofmacedon]

http://www.foxnews.com/world/index.html

Scroll down on the right side to the "video" section. Look at the last video called "Use of Force". It's about a forcefield for tanks against RPG's. It's a good idea and quite interesting.

[Crazed Rabbit]

Looks pretty cool, would be very interesting if it could work in the field. Also seems like it was co-developed with the Israelis.

Crazed Rabbit
PS. Looks like Fox had their reporter with the thick neck for this report.

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

Ahhh. Your tax dollars at work. :2thumbsup:

[UglyandHasty]

Very interesting ! Thanks for the link !

[Samurai Waki]

Although it doesn't sound like too much now, this could very well end up being perhaps the largest military technological breakthrough in a long time. If its designed to be effective against RPGs now, later on it could also become improved to protect against IEDs, Tank Rounds, and Even Bullets....*excitedness*

[Alexanderofmacedon]

Only thing I'm worried about is this. It seems like the man doing the report hinted that shells from inside the "forcefield" if you will, could not exit either. I'm not sure, maybe I took it wrong.

[Reverend Joe]

:laugh4: Hilarious.



...Wait... it isn't a joke? :dizzy2: Does anyone have any idea what something like this would cost, not to mention the number of flaws and horrible accidents that are bound to happen?! I mean let's say soldier X is looking for cover, and finds only a nearby tank, moving at slow speed. He approaches at a rapid pace, but certainly not fast enough to activate the system. But then, the system malfunctions...

It's just one more electronic piece of crap that we have to deal with. One of these days, a real low-tech army with immense numbers (*cough* China *cough*) is going to attack us- and when we see all of our high tech, expensive equipment being chewed to pieces via sheer numbers, we will stop and say to ourselves, "What the hell happened?!"

:no:

[yesdachi]

:laugh4: Hilarious.



...Wait... it isn't a joke? :dizzy2: Does anyone have any idea what something like this would cost, not to mention the number of flaws and horrible accidents that are bound to happen?! I mean let's say soldier X is looking for cover, and finds only a nearby tank, moving at slow speed. He approaches at a rapid pace, but certainly not fast enough to activate the system. But then, the system malfunctions...

It's just one more electronic piece of crap that we have to deal with. One of these days, a real low-tech army with immense numbers (*cough* China *cough*) is going to attack us- and when we see all of our high tech, expensive equipment being chewed to pieces via sheer numbers, we will stop and say to ourselves, "What the hell happened?!"

:no:
Your glass is half empty isn’t it?:inquisitive:

[CBR]

Trophy Active Protection System: http://www.defense-update.com/products/t/trophy.htm

The Russians have developed a similar system: http://www.defense-update.com/products/a/arena-e.htm


CBR

[DemonArchangel]

Trophy, Arena and Zaslon aren't "forcefields"

That's too simplified and misleading. What it really is more like a grenade or an explosive device that is launched from the tank, the fragments from which cause the offending munition to blow up prematurely.

[Duke of Gloucester]

Trophy, Arena and Zaslon aren't "forcefields"

That's too simplified and misleading. What it really is more like a grenade or an explosive device that is launched from the tank, the fragments from which cause the offending munition to blow up prematurely.

Never let the facts get in the way of a good story!

[spmetla]

While no forcefields are in use yet I remeber from one of my briefings before deploying to Iraq that one of the US's better propaganda efforts was the forcefield idea which in the early part of the insurgency caused attackers to wrap their RPGs in plastic and tape do defeat our "magnetic forcefield". This had the wonderful effect of making the already ill aim of the insurgents with RPGs compounded by the problem that they had just sabotoged the flight trajectories of their own RPGs.

http://savvyskull.com/cblog/index.php?/archives/71-Rumours-II.html

I used to have a picture on my computer of captured RPG rounds wrapped in plastic but alas that harddrive crashed.

[Sjakihata]

it's not a 'field'. Incoming 'threats' are tracked and traced by rader, and some sort of high accuracy projectile is fired on the warhead of the missile, disabling the missles explosive impact, while it still will make impact with kinetic force, explained in the video.

It's not like a shield in star wars or startrek.

[DemonArchangel]

Correct, Sjakhata, although I prefer Russian APS. Lighter, and it destroys the entire projectile to boot.

[Sjakihata]

Correct, Sjakhata, although I prefer Russian APS. Lighter, and it destroys the entire projectile to boot.

Well, Im not aware of the russian system, however, of what I can tell - the russian has a certain effecient way of handling things.

[Ice]

It's just one more electronic piece of crap that we have to deal with. One of these days, a real low-tech army with immense numbers (*cough* China *cough*) is going to attack us- and when we see all of our high tech, expensive equipment being chewed to pieces via sheer numbers, we will stop and say to ourselves, "What the hell happened?!"

:no:

I doubt everyone of those 12,000 warheads would fail. Besides, why would China attack its largest trading partner?

[Lemur]

As others have said, I'm pretty sure this system is more of a point defense than force field. Please, people, let's save our Buck Rogers terms for when they're appropriate.

[yesdachi]

As others have said, I'm pretty sure this system is more of a point defense than force field. Please, people, let's save our Buck Rogers terms for when they're appropriate.
"beedee beedee beedee... Forcefield's up, Buck?"

[Divinus Arma]

:It's just one more electronic piece of crap that we have to deal with. One of these days, a real low-tech army with immense numbers (*cough* China *cough*) is going to attack us- and when we see all of our high tech, expensive equipment being chewed to pieces via sheer numbers, we will stop and say to ourselves, "What the hell happened?!"


Mass numbers just don't matter against technology. Seriously, look into it. Technology beats numbers 7 days a week and twice on Taco Tuesdays.


As for the video, it's neat, but no force field. I'm gald we may have new rapid countermeasure against these types of weapons. It kind of fails when you have a combined arms force of infantry and armor though, since the RPG gets to blow up near the infantry bubbas. Sounds like it would be best for combined armor operations (LAVs & Abrams combined force) and vehicle escorts/convoys.

[Avicenna]

I doubt everyone of those 12,000 warheads would fail. Besides, why would China attack its largest trading partner?

^^ What he said. Unless it's got economic benefits, I doubt any country would attack another. Especially without any kind of valid reason. If there was a reason, you wouldn't be taken by surprise, would you.

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

What'll be cool is the thing on helicopters.

As the video noted, working copies would've been hella good in Somalia.

Sigh. :shame:

[Watchman]

The short interviews in the video alone gave off a very strong impression of the device being an active interception system. Since that didn't keep the Fox folks from calling it "force field" I can kind of see where they get their rep...

I actually first assumed it to be some sort of close-in field to distrupt the "plasma jet" shaped-charge warheads give off, a kind of high-tech version of the spaced armour trick.

Anyway, this toy seems kind of interesting in that it appears to be an early step in moving some aspects of tank warfare towards thoseund in modern naval warfare, with "SAMs" and other point-defense systems used to shoot down incoming missiles. Since ground vehicles and helos (nevermind infantrymen) cannot carry nearly as many missiles as decent-sized ships they'd logically have a way harder time achieving enough saturation to get something past the active defense layers, which would presumably have some troublesome effects on the ability of lighter vehicles and helos to kill MBTs since they lack the big cannons.

Unless they come up with new tricks for the missiles, natch.

I wonder if they'll ever try that approach some "near-future" sci-fi stories use where they just slap an autocannon or two in a mini-turret atop the main one and use that to shoot up incoming ordinance - doubles nicely as a secondary weapon against softer targets too...

Something I kinda wonder about is that this Trophy and similar systems use active radar (since they can catch even unguided RPGs), right ? Doesn't that make any vehicle using one kind of *really* obvious for assorted sensor systems ? Wonder if they can start using HARM bombs against tanks equipped with these things...

[Husar]

I´m wondering more about the effects on humans from all those radar waves a tank platoon will send out, the whole world is more and more filled with radar waves, radio waves, there´s WLAN, cellphones, radios, radars and they introduce more and more, soon we´ll all be fried.:skull: :oops:

[Avicenna]

Umm, radio waves frying you? There are already plenty of radio waves from the cellphones, they don't kill you. Waves are just a few vibrating particles.. no big deal. It's all an urban myth. Think of radio waves as very large sound waves. Sound waves never killed anybody. It's the ultraviolet, gamma and X-rays that kill.

[Ironside]

. Sound waves never killed anybody.

Actually extremly powerful sound waves are lethal.

But yeah, radio waves cannot be powerful, as if they're transmitting a lot of energy they stop being radio waves. To put it simple.

radio waves= very weak light waves
The light we see= medium strong light waves
gamma rays = very strong light waves

[Husar]

So you think I can turn my radio on again without dieing?:sweatdrop:
Last I heard the effects of WLAN on the human body have not been fully explored so far and people working near radars get cancer more often, the radar might not kill them directly, but indirectly.
If a whole tank platoon is in hospital because of cancer and noone of the guys is able to reproduce anymore, I wouldn´t say this system is going to win a battle for you...:juggle2:
On the other hand, people inside a tank should be rather save. I´m just talking about the increase of waves everywhere in general.
Since my heaters were equipped with new radio transfer counters to count how much I heat in my appartement, my radio thermometer sometimes shows no temperature from the outside, some interferences I guess.:inquisitive:
That´s where the problem starts...

[_Martyr_]

But what you are missing is that Radar energy is EXACTLY the same form of energy as visible light (ie its part of the electromagnetic spectrum) except its got a much much longer wavelength (think 100s kilometers instead of nanometers...). The power transfered is very small, tiny infact. If I was a Marine, Id be a little more worried about more "direct" threats to my health than an extremely remote possibility that this radar energy is going to give me cancer. Hell, id say the exhaust fumes from the tank are much more of a risk as far as a carcinogen is concerned than these radiowaves.

[Duke of Gloucester]

radio waves= very weak light waves
The light we see= medium strong light waves
gamma rays = very strong light waves

The difference between light waves, radio waves and gamma rays is their wavelength, not their amplitude. This is what gives them different properties. At big enough amplitudes light and radio waves would be harmful because some of the energy would be absorbed and cause burning. Ultra violet, gamma and x-rays are different because the individual photons have enough energy to dammage molecules (including DNA).


Last I heard the effects of WLAN on the human body have not been fully explored so far and people working near radars get cancer more often, the radar might not kill them directly, but indirectly.

The first part of this sentence is true. The second part has some eviodence to back it up, but would be more accurate if it read "there is some evidence that ..". The third part of sentence is true, but the inclusion of the word might is important. Besides, _Martyr_'s point about other dangers (including being shot) puts these risks in perspective.

[Ironside]

The difference between light waves, radio waves and gamma rays is their wavelength, not their amplitude. This is what gives them different properties. At big enough amplitudes light and radio waves would be harmful because some of the energy would be absorbed and cause burning. Ultra violet, gamma and x-rays are different because the individual photons have enough energy to dammage molecules (including DNA).


Yeah you're right, I formulated myself poorly.

Although it's very hard to miss if you're exposed to extreme levels of visible light or any electromagnetic waves with any lower wavelength. The heat would be unbearable.

[Vladimir]

Re: Watchman

I saw the clip when it first came out and I believe they said it acted "like" a force field. They were pretty insistent on the fact that it wasn't like something in Star Trek. You do have a valid point on the radar emissions. However, if you're in an environment that you have to worry about RPGs everyone knows you're there anyway, you're not fighting against anyone with that capability, and you're in CQB (close quarters battles).

[Watchman]

Unguided rockets are pretty much the average infantryman's slap-patch counter to armoured vehicles, I thought. Most won't really even scratch an MBT of course (heck, apparently the Finnish army standard APC is virtually immune to most light rockets) but that's beside the point. The things are supposed to be portable after all.

However, all of what you said only really applies in an asymmetrical-warfare scenario. 'Course, for the time being those are the only even remotely likely ones (major powers having learned decades ago that Thou Shalt Not Fight Thine Peers), but that's not the point is it ?

Plus, once this stuff starts getting more refined, common and affordable it'll eventually turn up in the poorer armies too. At that point at the latest the emission signature is going to become a bit of a worry...

[Major Robert Dump]

What would really protect the tanks and humvees would be an integrated hologram system that turned the tank into a mosque, or a day care center. Wait, they would still shoot a day care center.

[Watchman]

...when was the last time you saw a small mosque driving around a battlefield, shooting, anyway ? :inquisitive:

You may want to consult your lawyer before answering that, actually.

[yesdachi]

What would really protect the tanks and humvees would be an integrated hologram system that turned the tank into a mosque, or a day care center. Wait, they would still shoot a day care center.
Perhaps a hologram of angry protesters demanding the heads of the infidels. That’s a sight that wouldn’t be uncommon. It might even work like the pied piper leading extremists out of the cities. ~D

[Vladimir]

...when was the last time you saw a small mosque driving around a battlefield, shooting, anyway ? :inquisitive:

You may want to consult your lawyer before answering that, actually.

Ya, usually they use stationary mosques for that. Kinda hard to play in a moving vehicle. You'd keep hitting your head against the floor or walls every time you hit a bump.