View Full Version : Your reaction to a new "feature"
Teleklos Archelaou
05-26-2006, 05:28
Ok, the title was a little misleading. :grin: A quick poll here.
We haven't got everything figured out yet for sure, but one option that might be unavoidable would be that with some of the new changes introduced with the official 1.5 patch we might have to have a building that caused a CTD if the player clicked on it (in the town view at the center bottom of the screen). This is simply awful, and no one is happy about it, and it just plain sucks, and we don't want to have to have it, but *if* we find it unavoidable, how much of a pain or potential game killer would the fans find it?
A few options could exist - but one that makes the most sense would be to clearly label it so that you'd know not to click on it (right click - that would normally bring up the building description). This is an example I made a week or so ago somewhat jokingly:
https://img143.imageshack.us/img143/1516/skull7ly.th.jpg (https://img143.imageshack.us/my.php?image=skull7ly.jpg)
But it illustrates one option. We maybe could even make it look more "ancient" (heck, even could possibly make it look a unique way for each culture group if we wanted - or someone even suggested making it look like a Windows logo to illustrate that it would be a quick return to desktop).
To be honest, in testing the mod for many different things, I actually might like something like this - that could instantaneously take me back to the desktop and end the game with no harm (as long as it was saved). But that's me, thinking from a modder's point of view. :grin: Do you think it would be a big problem? The thing we would have to give up probably if we had to absolutely avoid it would probably be the complex recruitment system we have. The CTD itself is caused by the 1.5 build trying to pull up building recruitment to show you what units are available in the building, but if there are more than 8 building conditionals for any unit that would be shown there, a CTD then occurs instantly. We have many government and reform building conditionals that are needed for the units unfortunately ("fortunately" prior to 1.5).
Reverend Joe
05-26-2006, 05:35
Exactly which building are we talking about here? Because if it is a building that requires a description to understand what the hell it's supposed to be, we're kinda screwed on this one. :wall:
But, if we can get by without a description, there should be no problem. :2thumbsup:
I would kinda need to know this before voting.
fallen851
05-26-2006, 05:50
Does this mean we wouldn't be able to click on any building or just the one with the skull (or whatever you decided it to look like) emblem?
Doesn't seem like a very big deal to me... a slight annoyance, but worth it for the 1.5 port. Why didn't it happen in 1.2?
How many other CTD's are there?
So if I understand you correctly, this building assists in the execution of EB's complex recruitment in 1.5 and therefore will probably be present in every city from the start. The only problem is that for whatever scripting tricks it does to achieve the complex recruitment, accessing it causes the crash. I don't really see this as a big deal; logically it appears as no more than a necessary work-around to a problem caused by the 1.5 engine - one that will probably still be present if the team or an independent group considers a move to 1.6.
I say go for it, but somewhere on the website and forums leave an explanation of who-what-when-where-why. Besides, like you said, Teleklos, it might have a practicality benefit to it.
:idea2:At least some poor fool can't accidently destory it.:laugh4:
Yeknodathon
05-26-2006, 05:57
How about allowing the creation of new buildings to reflect the government and reform building conditionals that are needed for the new units rather than grouping all the units into the one building? After all, a reform would need to take some time to be carried out and the time taken to create a new building may be short to reflect the current infrastructure?
Reverend Joe
05-26-2006, 06:01
Oh, man- I thought this poll was in EBH...
I gotta lay off for a while. :dizzy2:
Teleklos Archelaou
05-26-2006, 06:53
-The problem didn't appear in 1.2, it is the result of a new feature that was added in the 1.5 patch.
-This is the only current CTD we know of in our build.
-If we had unlimited building complexes, we might be able to work it in where we didn't need the building conditionals, and right now blacksnail is working hard to find a way around the problem (and he might be able to - it's still in progress), but I'm just asking would this be a big obstacle if we are unable to figure another way around it.
-You would not need to see the description of it for it to function. One way it might work is to move unit recruitment inside this new 'invisible' building and then use building requirements in it to reference the MIC level you would build. You could see the MIC, and the description, but the units available wouldn't be visible in it (but they have been messed up even in 1.2 in EB, so this is not a new thing that we lose by moving recruitment into the 'CTD building').
Duke John
05-26-2006, 06:55
or someone even suggested making it look like a Windows logo to illustrate that it would be a quick return to desktop
"Return to Desktop"
Classic :laugh4:
Even though the MIC browser's unit recruitment part was messed up, I'd still rather have it be visible. It's still possible to try and figure out what gov. corresponds to what unit through it, although it's all poopy. So I'd kind of rather have the units still show in the MIC instead of not show at all within the new CTD building.
Unless I'm misunderstanding something and all is well. I'm still not exactly sure which building is actually the screwey one...
Anyhoo, extatic to hear that this is the only CTD in the build. I was getting really worried after a somewhat lack of updates and some disturbing posts about team members disappearing and whatnot. Can't wait for the release!
must not click ... gah....
cant stop....
need to click little skull
cant control hand ...
mouse moving over skull...
<click>
:embarassed:
No big deal for me. Put the skull there! Yaaarr!
But hey, is it possible to make the skull-icon as gray as the background/interface? Who would rightclick at a invicible building?
Or is leftclicking also not allowed on the building?
I choose "Probably not a bother, and might even be nice for quick exits"
Gameplay is what is important if it means I have to change my habbits then fine by me. not that remembering to not right click on the skull sounds all that hard :sweatdrop:
Does that mean that we won't be able to view unit recruitment in the building browser either?
Geoffrey S
05-26-2006, 09:29
or someone even suggested making it look like a Windows logo to illustrate that it would be a quick return to desktop
Please, this one. It's brilliant!
If it's what it takes to play EB as it was meant, fine by me, and I think the relatively complex government system is worth it. I mean, we have to click on the advisor every time we start anyway so having an icon that we shouldn't click on isn't such a huge step away.
i vote for the second (probably etc. but i go ahead and continue to play)
anyway if there is no possibility to fix this, id like the option of a game-exit, but no like the skull icon, i think is better a grey icon or a sort of windows icon that say "return to desktop"
im not a modder, so i dont understand nothink of modding the game, but there really isn't a way of fix that?
or someone even suggested making it look like a Windows logo to illustrate that it would be a quick return to desktop).
the game-crash button is a microsoft logo? sounds liek we got a mac-fan in our midst:inquisitive:
edyzmedieval
05-26-2006, 11:07
Do I see it useful? I mean, sometimes, I have to exit fast. I just click the Windows Logo and I exit. :grin:
I won't bother really. Only if there was some cool naked girl as a picture and I can't see it. :skull:
Cheexsta
05-26-2006, 11:21
Go for it ~:) I'll probably end up clicking it anyway, but it shouldn't be any bother IMHO, especially if you can get a printable recruitment guide happening.
Good to see the CTD's are being stamped out ~D
Edit: something I was just thinking, perhaps with specific buildings you could say in the description that it enables X unit when you have a minimum of whichever MIC level. For example, if you have a unit that requires a farm building, the first line in the farm building's description (after the English translation of its name, of course) you could state that it allows the the recruitment of certain units.
The lack of description for the building will be annoying, especially if you're like me and like to right-click on buildings to see what they do *before* you build them, but we'll get used to it...
Rodion Romanovich
05-26-2006, 11:23
CTDs don't matter as much in 1.5 because the load-save bug is gone, so apart from taking some time to relaunch the game it won't destroy a campaign in any way, so I think it's ok.
L'Impresario
05-26-2006, 11:52
Hmm, could it be made that the building's description appear as floating text when hovering the mouse upon it?
Please delete (not relevant)
It would be really cool to have a windows logo to exit the game right away. That is a really good idea :D
So could you still right click on it in the construction menu, or is it the sort of building you have from the start? It really doesn't sound like a big problem at all, and if settling with a windows logo (and perhaps a hovering text--that sounded like a good idea) would get 1.5 out sooner, I'm perfectly happy with the kinda goofball building pic.
PseRamesses
05-26-2006, 14:46
I wouldn´t care if this was implemented in 1.5 as long as know what to do and the desktop icon idea sounds informative and correct enough.
As long as it's clearly labeled, i wouldn't care at all.
Teleklos Archelaou
05-26-2006, 16:29
Currently the building doesn't exist, but the problem occurs in the MIC buildings now (since that is where unit recruitment takes place). I've played a few campaigns and you could still build the MIC's (right click on them in the building construction menu) or even move them around in the building queue, but you couldn't left click on them to get the description or you will get a CTD.
We could still theoretically (haven't done it yet) retain MIC's - with the descriptions, and having them affect unit recruitment the way the currently do (i.e., you get better units with more advanced MIC's), but the actual recruitment lines would go into this "CTD building" that would be indestructable and always present and have some special icon. If it was invisible though (the icon) it would possibly cause more problems - it might accidently be clicked on. If we go this route, we might try another poll for exactly how to do the icon (skull, windowsish symbol, invisible, etc.). Again, blacksnail is working feverishly to figure out a way around this, and we might be able to make it work where this isn't necessary at all, but it is very promising to see that there is not much worry among the fans if we do have to have a building that does cause CTD's when you click on it (as long as it's clear that it would happen).
In all the testing I've done, btw, there does not appear to be any adverse problems as a result of exiting the game this way. It's just absolutely instantaneous. Unit recruitment still works. You could still even build MIC's that have this problem (currently - but that is too risky: to leave a CTD like this in a building you have to left click in the browser to build, but can't right click for fear of a CTD). It all just happens because CA made the unit recruitment buildings now link to the units themselves when you click on their name (in 1.5).
How do rtr get around this´, they have their auxilla Zor thing?
edyzmedieval
05-26-2006, 16:57
Yeap, they have ZoR too.
ZoR = Zone of Recruitment
Just like Spartans in vanilla RTW, you could only recruit them in Sparta.
But do they have the same crashes? cos if not maybe it's the way to go
Reverend Joe
05-26-2006, 17:25
Just make it a little red button. No pop-up text, no explanation, no nothing. Just a little red button.
:laugh4:
Teleklos Archelaou
05-26-2006, 18:08
You can have ZOR or any type of static recruitment system you want if you use HR's, but we have a system that uses HR's to place recruitment regionally, and then additionally thrown into the mix are reforms that use building conditionals (scripted placement of reform buildings) and also a government system that every single unit requires. So every unit has building conditions (available in type1 and 2 but not 3 or 4, for example) also that RTR doesn't have. The problem is related to all three of these things (geographical placement, government conditions, and reform conditions) in addition to occasional other buildings being required for some units (academy complex buildings for some catapults and such and maybe even some big temples or other buildings for some special units).
I know Fourth Age TW has totally removed building conditions in unit recruitment to stop CTD's as a result of their moving to 1.5 also, and I think Iberia TW has also removed them as conditions too because of this issue.
Rodion Romanovich
05-26-2006, 18:26
academy complex buildings for some catapults
I've not yet seen any artillery unit in EB. Are they implemented yet, so that I can get them if I build an academy (don't think I've built much academies yet), or will they be included in later EB versions?
SwordsMaster
05-26-2006, 18:32
-The problem didn't appear in 1.2, it is the result of a new feature that was added in the 1.5 patch.
-This is the only current CTD we know of in our build.
-If we had unlimited building complexes, we might be able to work it in where we didn't need the building conditionals, and right now blacksnail is working hard to find a way around the problem (and he might be able to - it's still in progress), but I'm just asking would this be a big obstacle if we are unable to figure another way around it.
-You would not need to see the description of it for it to function. One way it might work is to move unit recruitment inside this new 'invisible' building and then use building requirements in it to reference the MIC level you would build. You could see the MIC, and the description, but the units available wouldn't be visible in it (but they have been messed up even in 1.2 in EB, so this is not a new thing that we lose by moving recruitment into the 'CTD building').
I was just thinking, if you have too many conditionals, break it up into 2 buildings - up to 8 conditionals each - and then make one a requirement for the other... You might have though of this already, of course, but sometimes you can't see the forest behind the trees as they say...
Personally, if the functions of the building could be explained elsewhere it wouldn't be a game killer for me. Definitely an annoyance though.
I just think that one day the mod is going to be "finished and" as much as i admire the goverment system you can't have a ctd button in your finished mod the opposition /critics ´will never let you forget it. So maybe looking at other alternatives is an option
Rodion Romanovich
05-26-2006, 19:17
@stalin: meh, a ctd button is not a bug, it's a feature - a patented feature known as "quick quit (TM)" :2thumbsup: Beat that if you can RTR! Muahahahahaha!
Slider6977
05-26-2006, 19:28
We could still theoretically (haven't done it yet) retain MIC's - with the descriptions, and having them affect unit recruitment the way the currently do (i.e., you get better units with more advanced MIC's), but the actual recruitment lines would go into this "CTD building" that would be indestructable and always present and have some special icon.
So if I get this right, the plan is to put recruitment in this new building, but to retain the MIC's so as to put an additional text in each recruitment line "and building present royal barracks" or something of the like. Is that correct? If so, it hasn't been made completely clear whether or not the recruitment "list"(text telling which units can be recuited with the next lvl mic) would been in this new buidling. If that is the case, I think the point has already been made, that we would need an up-to-date recruitment list. Probably wouldn't be possible to have it in-game though.
Teleklos Archelaou
05-26-2006, 19:37
slider: Well, we would still need the MIC's to act (on the surface) as they did before. So you would have to upgrade them just as before to get the better units, but while the units would in theory come from upgrading your MIC's the recruitment lines would techincally be inside this CTD building, so that you wouldn't crash the MIC by clicking on it or building it or anything like that. This other CTD building would be present always and indestructable.
It may or may not work just like this, but this is one possibility that feedback helps us think about. We would need to get a recruitment list out too that would help everyone understand the system, and maybe we could even stick a dumbed down version of it in the descriptions for the MIC, but it would vary according to province too. And it might not be complete till we get to something like .9 or 1.0 I would think.
If its absolutely necessary I could live with it. But I find it would be a pain to have. Could you make the icon for it a pixel big? Why not just have less than 8 conditions and break up the MIC a bit more? Core Infantry in one, open ranges for calvary and archers in another?
I'd prefer the logo to be something within the style of EB. It'd kind of be an atmosphere killer if it was a completely random logo, like skull or red button or even the windows logo. How about an ancient, EB timeframe, specific cultural looking graveyard? Maybe a tombstone. I believe you said you can make them culture specific right TK? Something subtle like that'd be nicer than a completely out of the blue icon that just throws everything off.
Just a stupid question: can't one have 4 different military building lines that each corresponds to different goverment type, hell then the unit recruitment would not depend on goverment
they'd have to be mutually exclusive and the first building would be the goverment itself ,then the military upgrades on top of that that allow one to train the troops
Do whatever you need to do, I will play it anyway. In fact, I would actually like this. It takes me 5-7 minutes to get from my campaign to the desktop, a CTD building would speed this up a lot.
Antagonist
05-27-2006, 00:20
Honestly won't bother me at all, as long as it was made clear which icon it was (as people have pointed out, the information panel for MICs is messed up and illegible even in the current version, so it's not like we'll miss something in that regard) If it's delaying the release of 0.8, then by all means. I can appreciate how it would be a major irritation for the EB team, though.
Antagonist
It takes me 5-7 minutes to get from my campaign to the desktop, a CTD building would speed this up a lot.
Just save and alt-f4 works pretty well.
edyzmedieval
05-27-2006, 10:59
I rarely try Alt+F4. I prefer the CTD button. :grin:
Slider6977
05-27-2006, 11:11
And if everything else is done (don't know), then this could be clearly labeled when going to download 0.8. As someone said, I think you can tell by this reaction that we in no way want the next release held up by this. Even if popular opinion swings, since only a small amount of EB players have posted here or possibly even seen this thread, then it would probably be better to release the game to get total community response. Once you recieve that, you can go about either deciding to scrap the idea by popular support (doubtful in my opinion) or everything would be gravy. After the release you could still try to find a way around it, and you wouldn't have an anxious crowd to deal with (if that matters in the least, after all this is your mod).
And if everything else is done (don't know), then this could be clearly labeled when going to download 0.8. As someone said, I think you can tell by this reaction that we in no way want the next release held up by this. Even if popular opinion swings, since only a small amount of EB players have posted here or possibly even seen this thread, then it would probably be better to release the game to get total community response. Once you recieve that, you can go about either deciding to scrap the idea by popular support (doubtful in my opinion) or everything would be gravy. After the release you could still try to find a way around it, and you wouldn't have an anxious crowd to deal with (if that matters in the least, after all this is your mod).
So, what you're saying is, EB 0.8 is about to be released.
One moment...
WOOOOOOO!!!!
~:grouphug: ~D ~:joker: ~:thumb: :cheerleader: :elephant::knuddel::dancing:
ehem... carry on.
Slider6977
05-27-2006, 13:13
So, what you're saying is, EB 0.8 is about to be released.
One moment...
WOOOOOOO!!!!
~:grouphug: ~D ~:joker: ~:thumb: :cheerleader: :elephant::knuddel::dancing:
ehem... carry on.
I am not a member so I don't know, I am simply saying that IF the next release is ready and they are just trying to find a way around this "problem" then they may as well release it, listen to the feedback of the community, and possibly even find some other modders out there who know a way around or could help with the problem. As far as I can see, I don't think it could hurt to make the next release, but perhaps they are also still adding content.
Maximus Newbeius III
05-27-2006, 13:50
As a long time visitor to the Europa Barbarorum website & my FIRST post, I would like to ditto what TK-421 said:
Quote:
"Do whatever you need to do, I will play it anyway. In fact, I would actually like this. It takes me 5-7 minutes to get from my campaign to the desktop, a CTD building would speed this up a lot."
Go for it EB!
:2thumbsup:
Birka Viking
05-27-2006, 15:14
For me its no problem...Just do a desktop Icon so I know which it is..lol
Greek_fire19
05-27-2006, 15:48
Yeah, it's no biggie for me either. Do whatever works.
edyzmedieval
05-27-2006, 16:20
So, what you're saying is, EB 0.8 is about to be released.
One moment...
WOOOOOOO!!!!
~:grouphug: ~D ~:joker: ~:thumb: :cheerleader: :elephant::knuddel::dancing:
ehem... carry on.
Wait one more year for that. ~D
After thinking about it all night, i'm actually starting to LIKE the idea... And i don't see how anybody could find this little button to be a game killer, or even be annoyed by it... When you're finished with the game you can just press it and BAM... Desktop... In fact, i think EB should leave this in for the final build, or at least release an optional patch for people who want to keep it, because the game can take ages to exit now with all the information EB put in, think how long it could take in the final build... ~:eek:
I agree though don't make it a windows logo... I quite like the skull and crossbones idea, or perhaps something more atmospheric, like a broken sword...
Celareon
05-27-2006, 19:38
Honestly it's not a big deal at all, i know to such a professional team like EB's to have something like this included must seem juvenile but for us plebs who just want to get our grubby hands on 0.8 and aren't braindead/can handle not clicking on the button of death its certainly not a game-killer,
Well good luck on finishing up 0.8, i know i'm excited!
-cel
-Praetor-
05-27-2006, 20:14
I agree though don't make it a windows logo... I quite like the skull and crossbones idea, or perhaps something more atmospheric, like a broken sword...
I agree to that too.
Not even remotely a game killer for me, but plz don`t make it an ATMOSPHERE killer please by putting a Windows Icon over it...
The broken sword`s idea is good, maybe an assasin`s knife (sica), maybe a crack, cliff, etc. Or just a plain skull will do good. Just don`t put anything that kills the atmosphere.
Thnx.
Icon: Red button
Text: Don't Push
fallen851
05-28-2006, 07:49
I would actually like a Windows Icon...
Hmm, heres a thought... since people want different logos, and this seems like an actual "feature" that's quite popular, why not release different patches for different icons for the logos? Original could be whatever then patches could be released for a red button, windows logo, something atmospheric or anything else... I guess it could kind of seem redundant to some people, but I think it'd be a nice little EB touch. Options never hurt!
Trithemius
05-28-2006, 09:28
I won't bother really. Only if there was some cool naked girl as a picture and I can't see it. :skull:
One EB "Hot Coffee" Scandal, coming up! :)
Trithemius
05-28-2006, 09:31
Perfect is best (obviously), and it might be a bit pesky getting used to, but unit recruitment in EB is extremely neat and it would be a real shame to lose it.
I don't think it would be really useful to me, as a non-modder, but so long as I save regularly and that town pane scrolling bug is fixed (anyone else get this now and then?) it doesn't seem too bad.
Guys - I was speaking to TA about the problem, and unfortunately the poll addresses only one part of the problem. Here's the other:
Go back and open a game of v.74 and when you right click on the next available MIC level, it will tell which units you'll be able to recruit after it's built. So if it takes 8-20 turns to build, you can evaluate whether or not it's worth it. In a modified system which retains the old "Building Conditional" recruiting, all units will be housed in a single MIC building (the "right-click-and-CTD" structure from your poll) and a SECOND MIC structure will free them up based on Governement types and Hidden Resources (just like the current system).
This "new" MIC structure does not, however, have a left panel information pane which tells you which units it can recruit. So the ONLY way a person will know whether it's worth building MIC Level X in Province Y will be to examine a massive document which lays out exactly which units are recruitable BY FACTION, BY GOVERNMENT, BY PROVINCE, and BY MIC LEVEL. Actually, to call this document "massive" is probably an understatement.
However that's the ONLY way you'll know whether building a particular MIC level is worth doing. Of course, you can always roll the dice and build it and then see what appears in the recruitment screen, but there is no longer an "in-game" mechanism to determine which units are recruitable when you construct "building X".
We could probably use the existing MIC structure, but that would result in a series of levels that can never be "right clicked". The "Second MIC" system provides buildings which can be right clicked (although the information thereby provided isn't worth much), and it places the CTD building in every city at the start of the game, thus eliminating the chance that people will try to build it and inadvertantly right click it in the Build menu.
Excuse for being out of the EB loop.
But am I to understand that this is the only repeatable known CTD we have in 0.8? Does this mean the old reinforcement CTD error is history?
If so, I think that alone is enough to break out the weed... I mean beer... yeah, beer :sweatdrop:
Teleklos Archelaou
05-28-2006, 19:44
I don't think there's been enough testing to know if the reinforcement CTD is still around. Honestly there has been very little testing.
edyzmedieval
05-28-2006, 20:38
I never had any reinforcement bugs even with 0.74....
Slider6977
05-28-2006, 21:22
Then you have probably never had a reinforcement battle with your backups lead by a captain.
I understood exactly what was happening, in reference to Kull's post. I understood this would be one of the unfortunate problems. However, the "current recruitment guide" that was released a while ago was very informative, and for the most part accurate, aside from a couple unfinised unit lines in exp.descr.buildings.txt. The problem really lies in the fact that it is not in-game.
Which is why I posted asking whether this was being considered, worked on in any way, or at all possible considering it would probably mean thousands of lines of text just as long as the recruitment txt itself in buildings.txt? And would probably have to be put in one of the buildings, perhaps the MIC. But as has been said, every faction shares the same buildings, so recruitement for every other faction, if this idea was to be fathomed, would also apear, and you would have to scroll throught hundreds if not thousands of lines of text to find your factions units, and would also have to know where the provinces are located that have them, etc. Certainly a monumental task and I don't think many EB players will realize this.
Hmm as stated theres a bit more to this 'iceburg'
ok so we cant check what recruitment by clicking the MIC
would it be possible to attach to the government building or some other building associated with that province - a list of upgrades and associated recruitments for that province
or will that be faction dependent - or perhaps just like in MTW a statement in the province descriptions saying this province is famous for its "salmation knights" or something
there must be a work around
Maybe this is a stupid question since nobody else has mentioned it yet... So i'm thinking there's something i've missed...
But what if the AI tries to build the CTD button!? :skull:
Slider6977
05-30-2006, 05:10
Hmm as stated theres a bit more to this 'iceburg'
ok so we cant check what recruitment by clicking the MIC
would it be possible to attach to the government building or some other building associated with that province - a list of upgrades and associated recruitments for that province
or will that be faction dependent - or perhaps just like in MTW a statement in the province descriptions saying this province is famous for its "salmation knights" or something
there must be a work around
Thats exactly the biggest problem, there is not a work around, or not one determined to work yet. The recruitment list, as seen in the current version, is not linked to anything other than the input of the unit recruitment under the barracks in export_descr_buildings.txt. And as stated, this buidling will no longer contain the recruitment lines, instead they will be in this new CTD building. Those lines of code will no longer be viewable as they were in the MICs.
Therefore there will be no way to put a faction specific, and certainly not a province specific, recruitment list in-game. As far as I know (and I'm sure right now any EB member knows), it is not possible. The only viable (not really though), in-game guide that I can think would be possible is to put lines of text in the mic or other building in the text folder describing all possible unit recruitment in a given province by a given faction. And since there is no way to limit this to province-specific, than that would mean thousands of lines of text, or at least hundreds, all in one building. Stating "this unit" recruitable by "this faction" in "this region" with "this type of gov't". Considering the number of units, the number of provinces and the number of faction specific gov't prerequisites to train region-specific units, that is a whole lot of txt. Unless they DO create a faction specific building and put it in there, which would still be as much work, just split up for each faction and a little less confusing.
Maybe this is a stupid question since nobody else has mentioned it yet... So i'm thinking there's something i've missed...
But what if the AI tries to build the CTD button!? :skull:
You can build it without problem. It is when you try to bring up the info screen that it goes wrong. So your worries were unfounded. Though it would be interesting to know if this problem also affects the A.I.'s recruitment choices.
Divinus Arma
06-01-2006, 03:51
I see it as a feature. Quick exit. I like it. Let's make it a windows icon and be done with it.
The bigger concern is that which was laid out by Kull. Unable to view what units are recruitable? I'm not sure what I think about that. Pretty major.
In Res gesetae they omitted the unit listings (links) in the building descriptions. Is that anything for you guys (no link no ctd)
The Spartan (Returns)
07-01-2006, 15:27
i choose the third option. id get used to it.
alman7272
07-02-2006, 20:41
Icon: Red button
Text: Don't Push
That would make me want to push it more.
How about a building that takes 0 Mnai and 0 Turns (Is this possible?) If not a 1 Mnai, 1 Turn Building that shows which units can be recruited in each building. Simple, I guess.
Avicenna
07-02-2006, 21:47
That would take up loads of building slots, but it could work I suppose.
I mean a building per faction, detailing all the recruitable units in all the buildings of that faction.
I dont' know why you guys are even waisting energy on trying to fix it. Its not a big deal at all. I mean.. come on its a mod, every mod has its lovable quirks. And a beta mod no less (BEST DAMN BETA MOD THERE IS!! :2thumbsup: )
well currently even if i look in the building info for the barracks or whatever I cant read what I recruit anyways since all the text overlaps so, really what does it matter
oh, and you should make the hover over text "Click for explicit Content"
Cheexsta
07-13-2006, 08:07
So what exactly causes the problem? Is it having too many building conditionals or just conditionals in general? In other words, is it caused by having too many buildings as conditions, or is it because of having too many hidden resources as conditions (or even both)?
It seems that it is just conditionals in general. A single one will do it, if I understood correctly.
Teleklos Archelaou
07-13-2006, 14:42
Every time I think about the fact that CA added this new bug and caused all this grief my blood boils...
So what exactly causes the problem? Is it having too many building conditionals or just conditionals in general? In other words, is it caused by having too many buildings as conditions, or is it because of having too many hidden resources as conditions (or even both)?
Building Cconditionals are fine when applied to other buildings. For example, you can make construction of the Blacksmith contingent upon having a Level 2 MIC. And Hidden resource (and faction) conditionals are fine when applied to units (or anything else).
The issue is when BCs are applied to units. Even ONE BC will cause a CTD if you click on the linking text in the Building Card, while 8 or more result in a CTD when you right click on the building icon. Neither is acceptable, IF we have an alternative...and we believe we do. The new system should be ready for testing VERY soon, and after that we'll know where we stand (the fundamental question with the new system is, "will the AI build all the required structures?" If the answer is, "Yes", full speed ahead. If no.....gah. (There are tentative plans for that eventuality too, but they aren't pretty)
Since no one ever listens to anything i say i'll say it agan :r emove the units links from the buildings in question. Have them separate on a list (clickable one) or a Excell sheet ( it's no better in 0.74) without links. no ctds .whoila:wall: release.
Teleklos Archelaou
07-14-2006, 18:29
Since no one ever listens to anything i say i'll say it agan :r emove the units links from the buildings in question. Have them separate on a list (clickable one) or a Excell sheet ( it's no better in 0.74) without links. no ctds .whoila:wall: release.
Your attempt at clarity was missed by me. Sorry. Remove the unit recruitment from the barracks building I understand, but where do they go then? "Have them separate on a list"?
single (scripted?) clickable "building"(text unit list) that contains all the units available with requirements or separate Excell form that serves as a guidline In 0.74 i never know what I can build where untill I consult the recruitment guide anyways
Since no one ever listens to anything i say i'll say it agan :r emove the units links from the buildings in question. Have them separate on a list (clickable one) or a Excell sheet ( it's no better in 0.74) without links. no ctds .whoila:wall: release.
I stand ready to be educated. Please tell me how we remove unit recruitment from the barracks buildings, and yet somehow the barracks can still recruit units.
not recruitment just the names of the available units on the buildings popup menu:
I stand ready to be educated. Please tell me how we remove unit recruitment from the barracks buildings, and yet somehow the barracks can still recruit units.
I think that stalin is trying to say that it possible to remove the recruiment lists from the barracks description. He mentioned in a post above that Res Gestae did this.
Teleklos Archelaou
07-14-2006, 20:40
Res Gestae moved some of their units into other buildings, like blacksmiths. And they moved some into the reform buildings themselves. They stopped using BC's though on the blacksmith and other buildings entirely - but they do have some units with BC's inside their reform buildings.
It is my understanding that reform buildings are "invisible" but are still there and do still cause CTD's when clicked on in the way one would click on a barracks to view the description. Is that incorrect? I rarely play till reforms kick in anyway so i'm not sure.
Either way, we have many more BC's (countless more) than Res Gestae has. There still might be a way to work it *if* reform "buildings" are never visible and never cause CTD's when clicked on. If someone has more information on that, please let us know since that is clearly the matter at hand. I am looking at the Res Gestae EDB.txt now, but don't have it on a working build on my cpu now.
As far as I know there was no description (or links to any troops) of any troops from any buildings popup menus just the buildings' general description. You first saw the trainable troops once the appropriate building was completed in the recruitment window. There was an extra buiding in which there stood a list( without links of all the available troops)
Tellos Athenaios
07-16-2006, 22:09
As long as I know before I start playing which building it is, I simply won't click on the building unless the game would get stuck in which case it'd be a nice fast exit.
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