View Full Version : Fare-thee-well Royal Scots.
InsaneApache
05-26-2006, 12:17
The oldest regiment in the British army is to merge.
Royal Scots (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/edinburgh_and_east/5015806.stm)
The Royal Scots, formed in 1633, is the oldest infantry regiment in the British Army and won its first battle honour in Tangiers in 1680.
The regiment's first Victoria Cross was won during the Siege of Sevastopol, while in the First World War the number of battalions increased to 35, of which 15 served as active front line units.
:shame:
matteus the inbred
05-26-2006, 12:24
sigh. have they no regard for history...:disappointed:
Is this some sort of backlash against devolution? I think they're doing the same with the police or planning to, creating or merging 'super-forces'.
The fact is, the army's always chopped and changed regiments around, names and numbers and regions.
Lorenzo_H
05-26-2006, 12:35
It's well known that the Coldstream Guards are the oldest regiment in the British army.
Duke Malcolm
05-26-2006, 12:43
No, it's not.
The Royal Scots, erstwhile known as the Royal Regiment, or the First of Foot, is older than any of the Guards Regiments... it was formed in 1633, the Coldstream Guards was formed in 1650.
The Royal Scots was the model for the rest of the British Army in 1661...
matteus the inbred
05-26-2006, 12:45
I think the Coldstream Guards are the oldest regiment in the British Army with a continual existence, founded in 1650. However, the original formations that now make up the Royal Scots were raised in 1633 for foreign service in France, and seem to have been fully regularised when they got back in 1661. 'Pontius Pilate's Bodyguard' are therefore considered the most 'senior' unit in the Army.
Duke Malcolm
05-26-2006, 13:40
No, no. The Life Guards are the most senior unit. The Royal Scots are the most senior Infantry Regiment of the Line.
Ianofsmeg16
05-26-2006, 13:49
A Sad day for the History of the British Army...
matteus the inbred
05-26-2006, 14:46
No, no. The Life Guards are the most senior unit. The Royal Scots are the most senior Infantry Regiment of the Line.
sorry, yes, meant that! keep correcting my sorry ass Duke, and maybe little Orgers will grow up knowing the truth about everything...! :bow:
Mount Suribachi
05-26-2006, 14:56
On the one hand regiments have been disbanded and/or merged throughout the history of the British Army.
OTOH, I'm really sick of the government BS about this being a move to "increase flexibility" and "meet the demands of the 21st century" when we all know its about saving money (and to a lesser extent a problem in recruiting). I would have so much more respect for the goverment if they came out and said "we haven't got enough money to round, so something has to give"
Sorry, I'm turning this into a backroom topic...
Vladimir
05-26-2006, 15:15
So no more bagpipes? Was that the unit that kept charging to their death against French Canadian forces during the Seven Years War?
Duke Malcolm
05-26-2006, 15:21
Yes, bagpipes will continue
The Royal Scots was one of 8 Scottish regiments (6 infantry, 1 guards infantry, 1 cavalry), and they all had bagpipes. The Royal Scots Dragoon Guards had a piper piping when they took Basra. Each infantry regiment was a single battalion.
Those 8 regiments have become 3 - (1 infantry, 1 guards infantry, 1 cavalry).
The new single infantry regiment is 5 battalions, the MoD decided it doesn't like single-battalions so got rid of them all.
Each battalion has its own band, seen massed in a splendid display annually at the Edinburgh Military Tattoo.
edyzmedieval
05-26-2006, 17:03
Sad day for the English army... No respect for history. :shame:
InsaneApache
05-26-2006, 17:06
Sad day for the English army... No respect for history. :shame:
Duke Malcolm is going to have a word or two with you methinks. :laugh4:
edyzmedieval
05-26-2006, 17:07
British Army...
You bastard. :laugh4:
(it's only a joke)
Duke Malcolm
05-26-2006, 17:14
Sad day for the English army... No respect for history. :shame:
Duke Malcolm is going to have a word or two with you methinks.
British Army...
You bastard.
(it's only a joke)
The clue is in the name of the Regiment...
The British army is renown for the Scottish regiments...
Mount Suribachi
05-26-2006, 21:37
In related Army news, my little brother passed his Army Selection process earlier this week, but he doesn't start his basic training till October!!
(he's joining the Army Air Corps as an Aviation Ground Crew Specialist).
mercian billman
05-28-2006, 23:49
From my understanding most of these regiments were comprised of single battalions, while at the same time they continued to maintain HS capabilities as if they were regiments. In essence the British army was over supporting 5 infantry battalions by individually giving each battalion the support that would normally go to a regiment.
To me it would make sense to combine these battalions and which would reduce the total administrative support required required to support all five individually. I understand the role history plays in this, but it seems that each battalion will be able to maintain it's own identity and in any case Armies have always evolved; Regiments have been stood up and disbanded, combined together etc.
The problem with the British army (speaks an outside observer) is that the last time there was whole sale reforms was in the 1870's. That's when 90% of the regiments were established. At the time the army needed lots of units to defend a huge global empire. Now they really don't need all the regiments they have. But because many have existed for 120 years any changes are up against all the history and sentement over praticallity BS. The UK army has needed a good clean up of units since the 50's, but it's only happening now.
We have a very similar regimental system as you Brits, biggest difference is no depots. But we can disband units if they serve no purpose anymore. We make whole regiments reserve. When I was looking into joining the artillery reserve the headquarters office had a whole wall devoted ot the regiments history on it. From it's founding in the 1890's to it's role as a coastal defense unit in WW1 to being deployed to Italy in WW2.
i think its a practical merger, but is a shame due to the history of the regiment...
Duke Malcolm
05-29-2006, 17:38
I don't think it is terribly practical, they are getting rid of an entire battalion when they are sending more troops out to foreign lands, hardly practical. The uniting of the 6 (8, including 51st & 52nd TA) single battalion regiments into one might be practical, but this is removing a battaltion.
i was under the impression (perhaps wrongly) that the royal scots is being merged with the others into a bigger regiment to cover scotland, which seems sensible as it must be easier logistically to supply and support 1 large regiment as opposed to several...
Banquo's Ghost
05-29-2006, 17:46
But because many have existed for 120 years any changes are up against all the history and sentement over praticallity BS.
If you had served under the flag of that history, and seen men to whom it mattered, it might not seem so sentimental.
I understand the practical arguments, and they are often compelling - the military has to evolve of course, but a soldier's morale and motivation is a more complex thing than the bean-counters and desk jockeys and chicken-hawk politicians are able to appreciate.
But I suppose you will be proved right in the end, I'm sad to say. ~:(
Duke Malcolm
05-29-2006, 17:58
i was under the impression (perhaps wrongly) that the royal scots is being merged with the others into a bigger regiment to cover scotland, which seems sensible as it must be easier logistically to supply and support 1 large regiment as opposed to several...
That happened in March. The other day the Royal Scots Battalion of that regiment merged with the King's Own Scottish Borderers Battalion of that Regiment into one single Battalion, at the loss of several hundred men and officers.
That happened in March. The other day the Royal Scots Battalion of that regiment merged with the King's Own Scottish Borderers Battalion of that Regiment into one single Battalion, at the loss of several hundred men and officers.
ah okay, :oops:
If you had served under the flag of that history, and seen men to whom it mattered, it might not seem so sentimental.
I understand the practical arguments, and they are often compelling - the military has to evolve of course, but a soldier's morale and motivation is a more complex thing than the bean-counters and desk jockeys and chicken-hawk politicians are able to appreciate.
But I suppose you will be proved right in the end, I'm sad to say. ~:(
I almost did. I'm sure if I'd walked into the Princess Louise Fusiliers instead of the 1st field regiment of Halifax I'd have seen the same regimental history wall. Which I can appreciate, but my sentiment doesn't run that deep. I would still find it a collosal waste of money and resources to keep 8 1 batallion regiments around. When the same job could be done by 1 or 2 regiments of multiple batallions.
IMO the UK MoD should just abolish the old depot system and turf all the regiments it doesn't need. Keep the oldest/most famous ones only. Now I just heard a few of you hit the ceiling but hear me out. Some would just be disbanded true but other could be made reserve/territorial army units. And if they were needed for a real war they their colours and history wold all be revived. The Canadian army has been going through this sort of stuff since the late 60's. Like when we combined all 3 branches into 1 service. Basically the RCAF and RCN becamse part of the army and got green uniforms. Or when the royal paratroop reigment was disbanded in 1993 after the actions of some of it's members in Somolia. And morale will suffer but the stoics and patriots will keep it going. Then a new policy of a kinder gentiler way of training and disipline wil come around. But as long as the military is well funded (which ours isn't) and properly trained/equipped morale will recover. But the recovery won't happen until most of the old timers who moan about the loss of history are gone.
Banquo's Ghost
05-29-2006, 21:47
IMO the UK MoD should just abolish the old depot system and turf all the regiments it doesn't need. Keep the oldest/most famous ones only. Now I just heard a few of you hit the ceiling but hear me out. Some would just be disbanded true but other could be made reserve/territorial army units. And if they were needed for a real war they their colours and history wold all be revived. The Canadian army has been going through this sort of stuff since the late 60's. Like when we combined all 3 branches into 1 service. Basically the RCAF and RCN becamse part of the army and got green uniforms. Or when the royal paratroop reigment was disbanded in 1993 after the actions of some of it's members in Somolia. And morale will suffer but the stoics and patriots will keep it going. Then a new policy of a kinder gentiler way of training and disipline wil come around. But as long as the military is well funded (which ours isn't) and properly trained/equipped morale will recover. But the recovery won't happen until most of the old timers who moan about the loss of history are gone.
:speechless:
:bomb: BANG....Whoooooooosh............Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.......:vanish:
*approximate sound of old soldier exploding into orbit*
:wink:
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