Do you ever wonder?

[Alexanderofmacedon]

Do you ever wonder why horrible or great events happen? Is there a simple explanation for Hitler condemning millions of Jews to their deaths? Did a Jew make fun of Hitler when he was a kid and from then on he hated Jews?

You ever wonder about that kind of thing?

[Beirut]

Interesting. Yet, let us muse metaphysically and not putter of politics, rant of religion, or banter of breed.

Be existential- not excremental. ~;)

[Louis VI the Fat]

I don't really wonder. I do not believe in divinities, fate or larger metaphysical meaning to occurances.

In the specific case, I would look for psychological and historical explanations. I do not think the holocaust was part of a greater plan something/body somewhere has for mankind.

[Zalmoxis]

I think it's a cycle: It will happen again.

[Banquo's Ghost]

I guess this is the starting premise for much of philosophy.

To me, the biggest revelation is of the sheer ordinariness of evil. Any one of us can step down that road, and remarkably easily. To reflect your post, for example, the Nazis were, in the main, deeply unremarkable.

One should always reflect whether one would have the courage to stand up for good in the face of horror. It's a question that should never be answered easily.

[Devastatin Dave]

Not enough fiber in his diet is my guess.

[Geoffrey S]

Evil is precisely that because it could have been anyone, anytime, both on the receiving end as on the perpetrators end. Although I don't buy into that "Hitler got snubbed by a jew when young, and hated them" stuff I think it is a disservice to see evil as something more profound than in reality it is; to do so denies that people are responsible for their actions, and perhaps tries to sooth us into thinking that we can't become like that. History has shown otherwise.

[Avicenna]

Things like the belief that Jesus was killed by Jews, and the fact that he couldn't get a job as an artist, which he blamed on the Jews. He also used the Jews as a scapegoat for the loss of WWI, a common belief that Germans of the time held.

[Silver Rusher]

Do you ever wonder why horrible or great events happen? Is there a simple explanation for Hitler condemning millions of Jews to their deaths? Did a Jew make fun of Hitler when he was a kid and from then on he hated Jews?

You ever wonder about that kind of thing?
I think its pretty obvious why he did it. Hitler hated religion, and because Jews had no power or authority it was much easier for him to pick on them than on people of any other religion.

[Rodion Romanovich]

because we forget about some causes and effects affecting the behavior of individuals, and sometimes our society forms drives us into positions where bad things are triggered and we've at the same time made it impossible or too late to stop them. The more our insight in causes and effect in psychology and society philosophy becomes, the greater our chances of stopping political-level evil acts.

[Beirut]

Things like the belief that Jesus was killed by Jews, and the fact that he couldn't get a job as an artist, which he blamed on the Jews. He also used the Jews as a scapegoat for the loss of WWI, a common belief that Germans of the time held.

Jesus coulnd't get a job as an artist, was German, and fought in WWI?

[Sjakihata]

Causation is the answer. Causation in a metaphysical way.

[Craterus]

Hitler's application/interview to get into the Vienna university and study art was turned down by a Jew. Some say it was because of that. I think he chose Jews because they were an easy target.

I believe in fate, to an extent.

[Justiciar]

We're humans. We're intelligent, we have free will, but we're easily swayed. However, if you put is in large groups we cease to be individuals and become one big, rather ugly entity. If two such big ugly entities find themselves at odds, bad things happen. Taddah! As to murder, rape, and other such "evil" things.. that's just nature for you.

[Louis VI the Fat]

To me, the biggest revelation is of the sheer ordinariness of evil. Any one of us can step down that road, and remarkably easily. To reflect your post, for example, the Nazis were, in the main, deeply unremarkable.Indeed. One of the things that struck me most when I visitied Auschwitz, was the banality of it. These were ordinary Germans - civil servants, truck drivers, housewives. Otherwise unremarkable, ordinary people.

Not so much the willing executioners of Goldhagen as the uncritical masses of Hannah Arendt.

Shameless inserting of Wikipedia's article about Hannah Arendt's:
'In her reporting of the Eichmann trial for The New Yorker, which evolved into the book Eichmann in Jerusalem, she raised the question whether evil is radical or simply a function of banality -- the tendency of ordinary people to obey orders and conform to mass opinion without critically thinking about the results of their action or inaction.

She also wrote The Origins of Totalitarianism, which traced the roots of communism and nazism and their link to anti-semitism.'

[Louis VI the Fat]

Causation is the answer. Causation in a metaphysical way.Care to expand a little bit on this? I'm interested because I have an unnerving feeling that somewhere my metaphisical outlook may be flawed.

I do not believe in fate, yet I do believe causation upon causation upon causation. If the universe was created in a Big Bang, with everything in it, down to the last particle, created and send off in a certain direction, then there is a direct chain of causal links between that and me writing this post. It was meant to be.

Not in a divine planned sense, but in a physics sense.

[Banquo's Ghost]

Indeed. One of the things that struck me most when I visitied Auschwitz, was the banality of it. These were ordinary Germans - civil servants, truck drivers, housewives. Otherwise unremarkable, ordinary people.

Aye, me too. No evidence that any one of them considered they were processing human beings - every last one of whom had a mother, dreams, lives just like their own.

It is beyond my powers to even begin to describe the emotion that place evoked in me - if emotion is even the right word.

[edyzmedieval]

I always wonder why we can't find out many things in life. Why people and animals are tortured, why this, why that....

Really, I'm sometimes a big dreamer. :balloon2:

[The Stranger]

me too :P...i wonder about these things daily...sometimes i wonder...why do i wonder so much...its really wonderful

[Strike For The South]

what if i had gotten the rubeun sandwhich instead of the taco?

[The Stranger]

i like your sig :P i'd rate it 8/10

[GoreBag]

I don't wonder about it. I'm not concerned with the wherefore.

[Papewaio]

I do not believe in fate, yet I do believe causation upon causation upon causation. If the universe was created in a Big Bang, with everything in it, down to the last particle, created and send off in a certain direction, then there is a direct chain of causal links between that and me writing this post. It was meant to be.

Not in a divine planned sense, but in a physics sense.

Have you considered the random nature of quantum physics too?

As for Hitler, he did what he could because he choose to do so. Why he choose to do what he did may be as simple as hate, dislike, power or the blame game... or it could be circular... he choose to exert power because he could exert power. For him it might have been a crime of oppourtunity... but that I doubt as even before he was handed the power by the masses he desired to inflict pain on those he detested.

[Quietus]

Do you ever wonder why horrible or great events happen? Is there a simple explanation for Hitler condemning millions of Jews to their deaths? Did a Jew make fun of Hitler when he was a kid and from then on he hated Jews?

You ever wonder about that kind of thing? It happens due to survival instincts.

Hitler bought the illusion of the mythical 'Aryan' race. For the future survival of this 'race' he set out to conquer territories.

In the process he also sought to eliminate the 'inferior' races/competition/enemies: Jews, Gypsys and Slavs (and unfairly removing their genes from the pool).

Of course he was wrong since was generally agreed that coexistence (read: peace), not war, is the way for everyone's survival.

Thus in today's world, by using past Wars as bad example, people try to promote Peace (most especially with Nuclear Weapons abound).

[Rodion Romanovich]

Others have discussed why they think Hitler initially got the desire to do what he did. I'm here discussing the other part, which is also of interest. While it might seem political (and un-frontroomish), the key points are more philosophical - namely how society structure in itself (something that possibly only ancestors can be deemed responsible for), can be just as crucial to the outcome of events as the individual desires of people. And also - the very desire of Hitler to do as he did also has some root in society structure in that his dad beating him since infanthood, and his constant refusal later in life, and similar things, were closely related to society structure ideas. Maybe rather than studying humans, studying societies is more relevant? Society structure allowed the masses, the masses allowed herd mentality. Society structure gave people an upbringing in fearing and obeying authority, the belief in authority prevented revolt, and so on... The foundantion of all these crucial society structure factors was laid during the many centuries before. Which shows what a responsibility politics - and even more so the forming of a constitution - is.

There were several ways in which Hitler could have been stopped, but they were prevented because of several phenomenons:
- the people saw Hitler gradually turn more and more mad. It was a smooth transition, which makes it more difficult to react to it. There were no clear definitions of when a leader passed the point when he would be legitimate to overthrow. So none of those who were against him really knew when all others agreed to their view that he should be overthrown. It was made even worse by the lack of freedom of speech. If all had defined beforehand that removal of democracy by a coup would make it legitimate to overthrow the leader, it would have been much easier to coordinate a revolt.
- Hitler played the cards that could give popularity wisely. He used revenge for Versailles, better economy, German national identity and pride (something that had been hurt repeatedly the years before), and so on. This in combination with the lack of definitions of when a leader passes the point where he's justified to overthrow made the overthrowing of him more difficult
- the removal of freedom of speech made it difficult for Hitler, just as the people, to know when his decisions were liked by the people. Maybe the consent shown by a people scared of ending up in camps fuelled him even more, even though in hindsight it's obvious the people didn't like it or want to fuel it, and that removed freedom of speech creates such a scenario. But telling from experience - if people are afraid of a leader they show consent and joy over each of his decisions, even if they don't agree to them, and that usually makes the leader believe the people really supports his views. A strange scenario which many leaders have trapped themselves in. When such leaders see signs of revolt, they often get shocked and surprised, because they for a long time truly believed they had support.
- the effects of the masses - using cheering masses is an effective way of making it look like you have more support than you have. Just like many in western countries today after the Muhammed caricatures saw some masses walk with a demonstration against the incident concluded that "all muslims think that way", so could the use of cheering masses make it look like all Germans supported Hitler, even though many who join such meetings do it because it's thrilling and exciting to see so many people, sometimes the offer free food too. And by placing a few people loyal to the nazis in the audience to cheer, they could get entire masses to cheer loudly, due to herd mentality.
- once there was both a belief that most Germans supported the nazis, and a knowledge that all who uttered verbal dissent were sent off to death camps (even little children were asked in schools to find out if their parents were dissenters), not many had the courage to revolt. The entire transition to the madness was both so smooth that it couldn't be sensed until too late, it was fast so there wasn't enough time to reflect over what had happened, and when the people realized they hated the regime, there was already so many examples set by dissenters sent of to death camps, that there was extreme fear. The German soldiers at the front didn't know too much about what was going on, and those who did expected cruel treatment after a defeat, and so fought fiercely. The Germans at home were brainwashed in things such as Hitler Jugend basically from birth, and so didn't have much room for independent thought. The older Germans at home tried to survive by hiding their hatred for the regime.
- most people believed in authority (after their up-bringing) so much that they would have felt ashamed overthrowing it, even when it ran amok

What would have limited the effect of these problems would have been:
- making a constitution label a leader that breaks constitutional law (by coup, by genocide, by removal of freedom of speech) illegitimate and make it a legal right to overthrow him
- define clearly in calm peacetime what lines a leader may not step over if he wants to stay in power, and what lines upon stepping over he'll make himself illegitimate and legal to overthrow with any means necessary
- having enough regular parties so that there isn't a plague or cholera situation when electing a party
- making sure the regular parties do what the people want. That limits the ability for extremists to use populism as a method of getting through their extremist genocide ideas. If the regular parties offer better economy and better social security, they have a clear advantage over an extremist party offering better economy, better social security, and genocide. Making it easy to start new parties is a good way of achieving many and democratic regular parties.
- bring up people to value freedom of speech and independent thought, and despise authority if the authority does illegal things
- allow freedom of speech so that people realize that most other citizens are against the extremists, so that they don't get the false impression that the extremists are popular, and that anyone who dislikes the extremists is different than all others, when it's usually quite the opposite.

[Tachikaze]

Do you ever wonder why horrible or great events happen? Is there a simple explanation for Hitler condemning millions of Jews to their deaths? Did a Jew make fun of Hitler when he was a kid and from then on he hated Jews?

You ever wonder about that kind of thing?
Imbalance.