General's speeches

[Rodion Romanovich]

How common were general's speeches in wars throughout history? Are there any examples of where they had an important effect to morale etc.? Would they typically contain more tactical or more morale-boosting stuff? Is there anywhere I can find more info about mainly the phrasing and contents of general's speeches in ancient times, before a war, a campaign or a battle? What would a general typically say when addressing his entire army in those times? I've seen a few quoted fragments of speeches but are there any good examples of the entire disposition and content of such a speech? Sometimes there were afaik also religious rituals, sacrifices etc. made before wars or battles, how would they typically look and were they carried out in front of the army or not?

[matteus the inbred]

Napoleon was a well-known battlefield speech-maker, I expect that published volumes of his sayings or letters might include some or all of these.

The Samurai Sourcebook has a good section on Japanese pre-battle rituals during the 16th-17th century, both prior to campaign and prior to the immediate fighting and also some equally interesting post-battle stuff.
I'm fairly sure that speeches were not as common as Hollywood would have us believe. I suspect that most set-piece medieval fights would have had the commanders or their deputies rousing the troops, but probably with very simple war shouts like 'Dex Aie', 'England and St George' or the house or cause names during the Wars of the Roses, or William Wallace's terse 'I have brought you to the ring, now see if you can dance' at Falkirk. It's probably difficult to be heard by many men without artificial aid. The Romans used to take the omens before a battle and use trumpet signals to communicate the results.
Froissart has some quite good 100 Year's War speech descriptions as I recall.

[Duke Malcolm]

A more recent example of a pre-battle speech:
Colonel Collins, Royal Irish Regiment (http://www.presentationhelper.co.uk/colonel_tim_collins_speech.htm)

This chap has quite a way with words. My local newspaper quoted him after the Norman Kember incident, as saying "That's what happens when you go hob-nobbing with Sunni Extremists"

[orangat]

Pre battle haranguing would probably be standard practise and common right up to the napoleonic era. The general was the figurehead and literally the nerve center in medieval times and the loss of the leader would be very disruptive and damaging to morale.

[cegorach]

When reading about Polish battles in history the speeches were often performed to various degree, of various lenght etc. If professionals were adressed it could be one line e.g.

'In courage hope. In victory rescue. Do your duty !' - spoken before the battle at Klushino in 1610 by Hetman Zolkiewski before the battle against 35 000 large Russian-Swedish army which he attacked with 7000 Poles.
The effect of this wasn't known, in fact the commander and his soldiers were pretty sure they will win ( not a single battle was lost by Poles for about 100 year before this one) even if they were tired and enemy was behind a good defensive position.
Still I know some really morale-boosting speeches like at Chocim in 1621 before the battle against the Ottomans - it was pretty long as well.

I am just giving the examples from Polish history, because they would otherwise will never be quoted, which I hope you find interesting.:book:

Numerous other commanders did this before battles, Napoleon was a real master, he could even inspire soldiers of quite doubtful loyalty like the German soldiers before a battle against other Germans ( i.e. Austrians).

Some commanders however couldn't speak well enough. For example Hetman Koniecpolski one of the best Polish commanders stuttered and there was even a saying -' he defeats his enemy quicker then he manages to say to do so'.:2thumbsup:

[Rodion Romanovich]

Thank you all, very interesting read! Are there any more examples from ancient times, say around 0 AD and back half a Millennium from there?

[Alexanderofmacedon]

Of course speeches these days are not always written by the speaker. :sweatdrop:

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Of course speeches these days are not always written by the speaker. :sweatdrop:

And this differs from what occurred in the past how?

I recall reading a bit about battle speeches in Graves' roman novel (for the life of me I can't recall if it was I Clavdivs or Clavdivs the God) wherein Claudius is trying to decide if generals really gave inspired poetic speeches or speeches more akin to a locker-room half-time speech. Graves pointed out that historians wrote down those inspiring speeches well after the fact, and any "blue language" etc. was completely left out. In fact, he suggests, the poets may have felt the need to add a suitably stirring speech regardless of what -- if anything -- was said.

Obviously, as we approach the modern world and have the more contemporaneous diaries of the 17th and 18th centuries and modern recordings, we have a much greater sense of how recent speeches tend to go.

All-in-all, I enjoy Thucydides, but I take his quoted speeches with a few grains of salt.

[rotorgun]

I have always enjoyed reading, and indeed hearing, the speech of General Patton to his units of the 7th Army before the invasion North Africa. I can't recount it word for word here, but what is amazing is that he actually did make such a speech to each of the assembled regiments and battalions within his command. Everyone tends to remember the line "Everyone thinks that war means dying for your country, but it really means making the other poor, dumb bastard die for his!" or words to that effect. One of my best company commanders had copies of that speech plastered all over the company areas. Needless to say, he was a hothead just as Patton was. I saw him lock up the XO once, actually put him at Parade Rest, and we could hear the dressing down (**s chewing) from about 150 meters away. He was death on any officer he considered incompetent or who did not look after his men. That is why we loved him so.

Sorry, I got a little off topic there.
:oops:

[Kagemusha]

I think it has been an Global phenomena.If i dont completely remember wrong even American Native War Chiefs made speeches before battles.I think it was Chief Sitting Bull (Tatanka Yotanka) of the Hunkpapa Lakota´s,who gave the many times quoted phrase to his warriors before the battle of Little Big Horn: "Men,today is a great day to die!"

[rotorgun]

Here is an interesting excerpt from a speech delivered to a British infantry battalion just before the first day on the Somme:

Many commanders approached the battle with great optimism. The pre-battle speech delivered to the 8th Battalion, King's Own Yorkshire Light Infantry — which would suffer 539 casualties on the first day — included:

"When you go over the top, you can slope arms, light up your pipes and cigarettes, and march all the way to Pozières before meeting any live Germans."

:rifle: :army:

Edit: just found an interesting article about King Henry V and his actual speech bfore the battle of Agincourt. Here are some excerpts:

New battle of Agincourt for St. Georges Day
By Peter Almond
UNITED PRESS INTERNATIONAL

Agincourt, , Apr. 23 (UPI) -- It might have been St. George's Day -- England's national day -- on Friday, but if you were English you would have been best advised to keep that quiet on this battlefield, where King Henry V's sick and depleted army destroyed a French army four times its size 600 years ago.

Appearantly, there is some sort of row about the French wanting to erect some wind mill towers or somesuch on the battlefield. It has upset the purists who want the battlefield preserved. Below is the link for those interested.
http://washingtontimes.com/upi-breaking/20040423-020532-7148r.htm

Sick, depleted in numbers but inspired by King Henry V some 6,000 English and Welsh soldiers defeated an overconfident French force four times their number, killing at least 8,000 soldiers -- including the cream of French knights -- for the loss of less than 300 of their own. Henry's pre-battle warning to the archers that they had better fight because the French had promised to cut off their draw-string fingers (not in Shakespeare's account) when they were captured is believed to be the origin of the traditional English two-fingered riposte, first shown to French prisoners at Agincourt.

[Avicenna]

Not exactly a speech, but you did ask about rituals. Some kind of Greeks, I can't remember which (I think it's the Thessalians), pretended to try and sacrifice a bull, which would fail. This would appear to be a good omen to the other side, and the rampaging bull would go over and they would try to sacrifice it. It would have been given an alcoholic beverage of some sort, so naturally when the opponents of the Thessalians ate the good bits of the bull, they all sprawled out drunk, ready to be butchered.

[rotorgun]

Not exactly a speech, but you did ask about rituals. Some kind of Greeks, I can't remember which (I think it's the Thessalians), pretended to try and sacrifice a bull, which would fail. This would appear to be a good omen to the other side, and the rampaging bull would go over and they would try to sacrifice it. It would have been given an alcoholic beverage of some sort, so naturally when the opponents of the Thessalians ate the good bits of the bull, they all sprawled out drunk, ready to be butchered.

Perhaps one of the first attempts at phsycological/biolgical warfare. I guess those guys were just full of BS. :laugh4: :laugh4:

[Avicenna]

Perhaps one of the first attempts at phsycological/biolgical warfare. I guess those guys were just full of BS. :laugh4: :laugh4:

Nope, it wasn't. I've actually got a whole book about this, talking about chemical, biological and psychological warfare in the ancient world. Fascinating read, it's surprising how long ago these methods were used. An example many of you would know would be the Old Testament: the way some sentences are worded showed that the Jews actually intentionally tried to direct plagues or hordes of rats or such things to their enemies. Also, the Iliad says that the Trojanss prayed for Apollo to shoot arrows of pestilence, showing their intention to spread a pandemic among the Greeks, and one of the words used also meant 'snake' in Greek I think. Snakes were where they got the poison to poison their arrows. (using poison was acceptable in defense, I think)

Anyway, if you want to read more, the book's called:

Greek fire, poison arrows and scorpion bombs by Adrienne Mayor

[Peasant Phill]

what where those scorpion bombs?

[rotorgun]

Thanks Tiberius, I'll have to add that to my collection. Please do tell us about those scorpion bombs. It sounds interesting, in a despicable sort of way. Did they really involve the use of actual scorpions? Boy do those things sting when they bite!