A....amnesty for knives!

[scooter_the_shooter]

ay 24, 2006 04:44 ET

TURN IN YOUR KNIFE BEFORE IT'S TURNED ON YOU

London, 24 MAY/GNN/ --

HOME OFFICE News Release (077/2006) issued by The Government News Network on 24 May 2006
The first national knife amnesty for over 10 years begins today as people in England and Wales are encouraged to hand over their knives to their local police.

Until 30 June people are being given the chance to bin their knives and avoid prosecution. In a joint poster campaign, the Home Office and the Association of Chief Police Officers (ACPO) will warn people about the dangers of carrying knives and encourage them to dispose of their knives in specially designed secure red wheelie bins.

Every police force in England and Wales will take part in the National Knife Amnesty, with Scotland organising its own amnesty at the same time. The campaign is designed to take knives and offensive weapons out of circulation and make communities safer.

Home Office Minister Vernon Coaker said:

"The message of this campaign is simple - if you think you're protecting yourself by carrying a knife, you're not. Too many people think that carrying a knife will make them safer but the reality is quite the opposite as they run the real risk of having the knife turned back on them.

"Every weapon handed in is a weapon that can't be used in crime. I want to see people recognising the dangers of carrying a knife and using this opportunity to dispose of it before the police take action against them.

"Ordinary law-abiding citizens don't want to see their communities blighted by violence. Neither do we. We are working across Government to reduce crime and reduce the fear of crime through legislation, law enforcement and closer working with communities. The knife amnesty will help us achieve that."

Ian Johnston, ACPO spokesman on crime and Chief Constable of British Transport Police, said:

"Knives are very dangerous and it is unlawful to carry them for protection. People have been seriously injured or killed by knives in circumstances where those convicted state they had no intention of hurting anyone. Our message is simple - don't carry knives for protection; it is unlawful and it is dangerous.

"We will be working with our communities to take as many knives off the street as possible during the amnesty. During the campaign we will also be targeting operations to identify those unlawfully carrying knives with a view to prosecuting them. Help us to help you make our communities safer. Taking knives out of circulation will definitely contribute to this."

The police will continue to carry out intelligence-led enforcement work to crack down on knife carrying and knife assisted crime. Only those people carrying knives to bins will be immune from prosecution.

Carrying knives is illegal and can result in up to four years in prison.

Notes to editors:

1) Current legislation:
* It is an offence to carry a knife in public without good reason or lawful authority, with the exception of a folding pocket-knife with a blade not exceeding three inches. Those found guilty face a penalty of up to two years imprisonment. Possession of an offensive weapon without lawful authority or reasonable excuse carries a maximum penalty of 4 years imprisonment.
Certain knives, such as flick-knives, are categorised as offensive weapons.
* Manufacture, sale and importation of 17 bladed, pointed and other offensive weapons have been banned, in addition to flick knives and gravity knives. This includes stealth knives, disguised knives and batons which were banned in 2002 and 2004.
* It is an offence to market a knife in a way which indicates that it is suitable for combat, or is otherwise likely to stimulate violent behaviour. The police have powers to stop and search for knives and offensive weapons, in certain circumstances.

2) The Violent Crime Reduction Bill, which is currently going through the House of Lords, contains measures which:
* increase the age at which a person can be sold a knife from 16 to 18;
* introduce powers for head teachers to search pupils for knives and offensive weapons;
* create a new offence of using another person to mind a weapon, and includes an aggravating factor on sentencing if the person involved is a child.

3) The Government supports the work of the police in tackling knife crime, particularly through dedicated operations, such as Operation Blunt run by the Metropolitan Police and the British Transport Police's Operation Shield. These operations include education, community engagement and the use of technology for detecting knives.

4) The Connected Fund was set up in May 2004 to provide grants for small community groups. Now in its fourth bidding round, the Fund has supported more than 150 local groups working on gun crime, knife crime and issues with gangs. Many of the projects work with young people, providing diversionary activities, education and training, peer mentoring and other support.

5) In addition to the Connected Fund, we have used recycled criminal assets to support local projects through the Government Offices for the Regions. A total of £2 million was allocated in 2004-05 and a further £2 million in £2005-06.

6)The Association of Chief Police Officers (ACPO) is an independent, professionally led strategic body. In the public interest and, in equal and active partnership with Government and the Association of Police Authorities, ACPO leads and co-ordinates the direction and development of the police service in England, Wales and Northern Ireland. In times of national need ACPO, on behalf of all chief officers, co-ordinates the strategic policing response.

7) ACPO's 341 members are police officers of Assistant Chief Constable rank (Commanders in the Metropolitan Police and City of London Police) and above, and senior police staff managers, in the 44 forces in England, Wales and Northern Ireland, plus national agencies such as the National Criminal Intelligence Service and the National Crime Squad, and other forces such as British Transport Police and States of Jersey Police.

8)The ACPO Press Office can be contacted via 020 7227 3406/3425 (office hours) or via 07803 903686 (out of office hours).

http://media.prnewswire.com/en/jsp/latest.jsp;jsessionid=07FBDDE558DB34126C665A93E4E04F7C.tomcat2?resourceid=3217971&access=EH



I got this from another forum but it is pretty conservative...And I want to know what a liberal thinks about this. (don't bring guns into this)


I mean....knives! Why in the world would you need to ban knives! People try tell me the UK is not a nanny state....come on they don't even trust you guys with pointy objects now:no: I'd be offended!

[Big King Sanctaphrax]

Erm...knives aren't banned, per se. Carrying them in public without a valid reason is. So, I can't take my 12" Bowie knife shopping with me, but I can carry it if I'm going camping. If memory serves correctly, you can carry non-locking folders with blades of less than 3" without any restrictions. Seems pretty reasonable to me.

(Edit-just realised it said this in the article. Never mind)

I don't quite get this knife amnesty, to be honest. Can't you just keep them in your house? It's legal there, and you could use it as cutlery or something.

[Marcellus]

I don't quite get this knife amnesty, to be honest. Can't you just keep them in your house? It's legal there, and you could use it as cutlery or something.

Not necessarily - certain types of knives (combat knives, for example) are banned altogether.

On the amnesty - whilst getting illegal knives off the street is a good thing, an amnesty on its own is certainly not going to solve the knife crime problem. A change in the perception of knives (so that they are not viewed as fashion accessories, for example) is needed. Just don't ask me how this could be brought about.

[Big King Sanctaphrax]

Oh, I wasn't aware of that. How do they categorise a 'Combat knife'? I know they come down really strongly on flick-knifes, but I thought knife legislation only covered public useage.

Still, if you keep it at home the only way the police are going to notice is if you give them reason to search your house.

[scooter_the_shooter]

A switch blade would be illegal. But a one handed opener would not?:dizzy2:

[Big King Sanctaphrax]

I'm pretty sure the one handed opener would be illegal as well, if the blade was over 3" long or locking.

This is asuming you haven't got a bona fide reason for carrying it, of course.

[Marcellus]

Actually, I'm not sure what the law is on combat knives (although the article says that it is illegal when advertising a knife to indicate that it is suitable for combat, or is otherwise likely to stimulate violent behaviour). They may be legal (or not). Flick knives are definitely illegal.

[InsaneApache]

My knees are old and knarled...

[Blodrast]

I'm sorry, I must be missing something. Is there any significant difference in the lethality of a flick knife and one of my kitchen knives ?
So can't I just carry one of my kitchen knives with me all the time ? I mean, heck, they can't possibly arrest me for that - I can always justify carrying it ("I've just bought it/for someone else", "I'm going to xxxx place_which_justifies_carrying_a_kitchen_knife", etc)...

I suppose we'll live and see, but it seems to me a lot of absurd situations are gonna be created, and this won't really have the hoped-for impact on people who would prefer to carry a knife - just that it won't be the same _kind_ of knife...

[Big King Sanctaphrax]

I think the point is that flick knifes are easier to conceal. Carrying a kitchen knife in your hip pocket would most likely result in some injuries that aren't really worth contemplating.

[Crazed Rabbit]

The funny thing is they say that carrying knives for protection is bad, because you might get the knife used against you.
However, that would require that someone attack you in the first place.
And if there was a good chance of them using your knife against you, then I fail to see how not having a knife will help you.

Oh well.

Crazed Rabbit

[scooter_the_shooter]

If it is so easy to take a knife from some one....just take it back:laugh4:

[Duke Malcolm]

Cathie Jameson (the Scottish Justice Minister, don't you know) goes up in arms about knives...
The Tayside Police HQ has had 30 knives given up and calls it a success when 30 people in my year at school most likely have knives, and there are numerous other years in my school, and that have left my school, and there are many other schools in the city...
It is not effective, those who carry knives will not give them up...

[Husar]

The funny thing is they say that carrying knives for protection is bad, because you might get the knife used against you.
However, that would require that someone attack you in the first place.
And if there was a good chance of them using your knife against you, then I fail to see how not having a knife will help you.

Oh well.

Crazed Rabbit
The point is that when you carry a knife and some body-building robber comes along, wants to rob you and you take your knife out, being scared as hell, he can either grab the knife or your hand and use the knife against you.
In many cases this happens just because you wanted to defend yourself with a knife and if you had no knife, he had taken your money and went away without harming you.

Now you can argue with all sorts of crap, but fact is that the average Joe who runs around with a knife does not know how to defend himself with it and that´s why such things happen.:juggle2:

[scooter_the_shooter]

Sorry about the gun example but....in america we pratice drills and such with our guns for self defence(there are even games made out of it like idpa), why can't the brits do this with knives?

[Beirut]

If memory serves correctly, you can carry non-locking folders with blades of less than 3" without any restrictions.



You mean there is no lock to keep the blade open and stop it closing on your fingers? Odd.

[Beirut]

Double - sorry.

[Big King Sanctaphrax]

You mean there is no lock to keep the blade open and stop it closing on your fingers? Odd.

Yes, pretty much. Something like your standard Victorinox Swiss Army knife.

[A.Saturnus]

Sorry about the gun example but....in america we pratice drills and such with our guns for self defence(there are even games made out of it like idpa), why can't the brits do this with knives?

Don't know but I think they have courses there where you can learn how defend yourself against people who attack you with fruits and vegetables.

"...and now: I'm eating the banana!"

[Husar]

Sorry about the gun example but....in america we pratice drills and such with our guns for self defence(there are even games made out of it like idpa), why can't the brits do this with knives?
Maybe because the thief can practice there just as well(if he isn´t known to be a thief) and because trained people with guns being everywhere will make thieves eager to get guns to get an edge over all those dangerous knife-swinging people out there. I´d rather give some unarmed thief my 20€ from my pocket than have a gunfight with some heavily armed gangster and maybe lose my family and my life in the process.:no:
And keep in mind that on the street, you won´t have a lot of time to get your weapon out anyway, the robber may come from behind, catching you completely unaware, a completely unarmed society will also make the thief/robber/attacker less likely to use violence if he just wants money, because he knows there won´t be a lot of resistance. Sometimes it´s better to accept that resistance is futile than to die IMO.

And I really, really don´t think everybody who robs someone else deserves death, otherwise your death rows should be completely filled with software pirates...:laugh4:

[Justiciar]

Police Seek Klingon For Questioning

A police knife amnesty appears to have got off to a flying start with even alien criminals giving up their arms in the face of stern looks from the local bobby. The national initiative, which began yesterday and continues until 30 June, is predicted to see 30,000 illegal blades turned over to authorities with no questions asked. Most surprising, though, was the unexpected surrender of a Klingon bat'leth.
http://www.empireonline.com/images/image_index/150x180/7802.jpg

The traditional melee weapon of Klingon warriors, the bat'leth has struck fear into the hearts of countless alien races, wielded to deadly effect by those loyal to the great Klingon Empire. The long history of the weapon dates back to the days of Kahless the Unforgettable, who, as the legend goes, dropped a lock of his hair into lava from the Kri'stak Volcano, and then plunged the fiery lock into the lake of Lursor and twisted it to form a blade.

The seized bat'leth is pictured in the custody of a stern-faced police officer and ran in today's Metro alongside the caption 'A policeman with a 5ft blade designed to decapitate victims and seized by officers ahead of the knife amnesty'. It seems both the local constabulary and the daily newspaper need to better familiarise themselves with popular science fiction.

A suspect has been taken into custody over the seizure* and police have released this likeness of the man being questioned. When asked for a statement by authorities, the suspect is reported to have declared: "QaplH ponDu 'ooe'ml SoeHQ Ke'bl jllspl Dlavtl!"
http://www.empireonline.com/images/image_index/150x180/7803.jpg


*this part may be a lie.

[Kaiser of Arabia]

Commies.

[Duke of Gloucester]

Don't know but I think they have courses there where you can learn how defend yourself against people who attack you with fruits and vegetables.

"...and now: I'm eating the banana!"


What about a pointy stick?

[AntiochusIII]

Just so some of the non-British members who are unaware note the point: the UK have had a general increase in knife-related crimes lately, especially among the youngsters, whose version of "yo yo im a dumb gangsta cool yo" values the knife, and not, say, the gun, as a symbol of macho superiority.

This seems to be a response to the overall situation.

[Banquo's Ghost]

What about a pointy stick?

Oooooh, aren't we all 'igh an' mighty? Want to defend yourself against pointy sticks, do you? Fruit not good enough?

~D

[Red Peasant]

Commies.

Fascist. ~;)

[scooter_the_shooter]

Don't know but I think they have courses there where you can learn how defend yourself against people who attack you with fruits and vegetables.

"...and now: I'm eating the banana!"

huh? IDPA is short for international defenseive pistol. Ya' run through different drills and scenarios. Who ever score the best in the least amount of time wins.

[English assassin]

A switch blade would be illegal. But a one handed opener would not?

Yeah, its a bit arbitrary but it doesn't really cause any serious confusion. Flick and gravity knives are illegal per se. I guess one handed openers are not because of the difficulty in definition.

Truth be told, most thugs do not walk about tooled up, for fear of stop and search. Their knives are usually hidden in a nearby hedge or something. But that's not a reason to allow them to have them in their pockets.

I don't really know why they have these amnesties, since even if you do have a "combat knife" (which are prefectly lawful to buy and own, just not advertsise as such), if you decide your knife carrying days are over why not just put it in the attic? Or indeed, in the rubbish, since that would be lawful too. Can the amnesty be nothing more than a photo opportunity to convince us the government is "doing something" about knife crime?

I'm jolly glad they took that bat'leth off the streets though, I don't know about the rest of the country but round my way you can barely step out of doors without being assaulted by teenagers carrying mild steel copies of unweildy fantasy weapons.

[Avicenna]

You've got no knoves? No problem, get this here baseball bat :wink:

[scooter_the_shooter]

I have a question!



I am 15 and carry 3in lock blade every where I go, its also a money clip on the other side. But it's advertised as a "close quarters self defense knife" I just carry it because it's a nice little tool. Would I be an evil anti social thug in the UK for carrying it?


Also you'd never know its a knife unless you saw the other side.

[English assassin]

I have a question!



I am 15 and carry 3in lock blade every where I go, its also a money clip on the other side. But it's advertised as a "close quarters self defense knife" I just carry it because it's a nice little tool. Would I be an evil anti social thug in the UK for carrying it?


Also you'd never know its a knife unless you saw the other side.

Ah, well that would be an unwise thing to carry in the UK for a reason we haven't touched on, namely that anything adapted or designed to be a weapon, is a weapon. (and therefore basically unlawful in a public place.)

So, on the basis its just a lock knife, you would have been OK so long as you had a good reason for carrying it (being a nice tool would not really be enough, unless you had a reason for needing the tool). But as its advertised as a "close quarters self defense knife" (as opposed to a long range knife presumably) you'd be in serious danger of being done on that basis regardless of your reason.

Again this is all slightly arbitrary.

[scooter_the_shooter]

You guys got some strange laws over there:dizzy2: And with all I hear about "happy slapping" and drunk teens beating the hell out of people:help: I don't think I'll ever visit the UK.


While were talking about the UK how bad is all the happy slapping and such...or does the news just exagerate(sp?), it sounds like you got a bunch kids raping, beating, and stealing at will:skull:

[English assassin]

While were talking about the UK how bad is all the happy slapping and such...or does the news just exagerate(sp?), it sounds like you got a bunch kids raping, beating, and stealing at will:skull:

Its fine, really. Sure, there are some scrotes, but not a big deal. No more than in the past if you ask me.

It's when happy slapping doesn't make the news any more we will need to worry.

[Slyspy]

Ceasar that knife may get you into trouble because it is a locking blade I think, though it may be small enough to avoid this. It will certainly get you into trouble because it is a disguised weapon. As noted in the article an number of disguised weapons are completely illegal. Even if your knife isn't covered on the banned list I'm sure any inventive copper could find a reason to confiscate it.

Edit:
Better to be happy slapped by a bunch of drunk teens with knives or without? In fact will a pocket knife help in the face of a determined assault by such a gang? Besides which such behaviour is not as widespread as all that. To be honest I believe that the amnesty is really after more than pocket knives ie combat and hunting knives, swords, bayonets etc.

[Masy]

I believe this amnesty is all rather pointless, knives have perfectly legitimate reasons (camping, fishing, boy scouts etc), and those who would have a knife for another, less legal reason, may not be so inclined to give theirs up. Why would some thug throw away their precious tool of mayhem because they have been given an easy means to? Furthermore, I would like to say that any complete bans on knives would also be futile, aside from incriminating fishermen and the like, an alternative would just become popular. In Glasgow -still the knife capital of Britain i think- people have been killed with screwdrivers, nails, even a steel hair brush...what then? Ban metal? Ban sharp plastic? There is an interesting quote from somewhere, i think it's "a sword is never a killer, it is a tool in the killers hand". Someone wants to jump you, they'll do it regardless of whether they have a store bought knife or a sock full of batteries. Guess i'm just trying to say that people too often blame the weapon, and rarely seek to target the causes of such problems.

[scooter_the_shooter]

Ceasar that knife may get you into trouble because it is a locking blade I think, though it may be small enough to avoid this. It will certainly get you into trouble because it is a disguised weapon. As noted in the article an number of disguised weapons are completely illegal. Even if your knife isn't covered on the banned list I'm sure any inventive copper could find a reason to confiscate it.

.


I am in America where I *think* it's legal.

[Red Peasant]

I am in America where I *think* it's legal.

So, if a cop stops you in the US, presumably because they may suspect something, and find you packing a blade, then they'll say 'Ok sonny, that's fine, cool weapon, have a nice day'. Strange country. In this country, I hope they throw the little toe-rag in a cell and dish out a big fine at least. We don't want citizens carrying weapons on the streets. Full stop.

[Crazed Rabbit]

The success of that policy must be the reason for this new knife amnesty.

And besides, can't let the sheeple get any uppity ideas.

Crazed Rabbit

[scooter_the_shooter]

So, if a cop stops you in the US, presumably because they may suspect something, and find you packing a blade, then they'll say 'Ok sonny, that's fine, cool weapon, have a nice day'. Strange country. In this country, I hope they throw the little toe-rag in a cell and dish out a big fine at least. We don't want citizens carrying weapons on the streets. Full stop.


So now I am "toe rag":laugh4:


As long as I don't run around and cut people; I fail to see the problem.

[Kaiser of Arabia]

I'm never living in England, the gun rack on my pickup woudn't fit well ~D

Although I have neither a pickup nor a gun rack. I do carry around a 4.5-in German pocket knife usually, but that's so I have some form of defense against rapists and muggers and all.

[scooter_the_shooter]

I'm never living in England, the gun rack on my pickup woudn't fit well ~D

Although I have neither a pickup nor a gun rack. I do carry around a 4.5-in German pocket knife usually, but that's so I have some form of defense against rapists and muggers and all.


Pepper spray may be a pansy weappon but it's better IMO.

[Red Peasant]

I'm never living in England, the gun rack on my pickup woudn't fit well ~D

Although I have neither a pickup nor a gun rack. I do carry around a 4.5-in German pocket knife usually, but that's so I have some form of defense against rapists and muggers and all.

Wishful thinking, eh?! ~;)

[Red Peasant]

So now I am "toe rag":laugh4:


As long as I don't run around and cut people; I fail to see the problem.

Wasn't referring to you in particular, but if you are running around with a blade then ... well, the label fits :2thumbsup:

[Red Peasant]

The success of that policy must be the reason for this new knife amnesty.

And besides, can't let the sheeple get any uppity ideas.

Crazed Rabbit


The knife 'amnesty' is a PR stunt by the govt, just to raise awareness on a problem. Yet, you didn't reply to the scenario I outlined about being stopped by a cop whilst packing some form of weapon in the US.

And if you think we are sheep over here, then I invite you to step into our fair country for a while. You may find that these 'sheep' can bite you pretty bad ~;)

S'funny though, but if I based my view of Americans solely on the offerings on this forum, then I imagine that you all walk the streets in fear, armed to the teeth with handguns, rifles, automatic weapons, swords, knives, baseball bats, body armour, etc. etc. etc. How do you guys live?! :laugh4: Sounds like the sickest kind of society to me. :no:

[AntiochusIII]

S'funny though, but if I based my view of Americans solely on the offerings on this forum, then I imagine that you all walk the streets in fear, armed to the teeth with handguns, rifles, automatic weapons, swords, knives, baseball bats, body armour, etc. etc. etc. How do you guys live?! :laugh4: Sounds like the sickest kind of society to me. :no:No we don't. There are enough decent Leftists around to make sure the nation still have some sense in it. ~;)

I personally don't understand the major issue of weapons. Then again, may be I do. Weapons are the physical manifestations of power: power to kill. Weapons, like that one advertisement on TV where people with nice cars are shouting funny stuff, helps compensate any deficiencies of confidence for any person. :balloon2:

[rory_20_uk]

I agree that the knife anmesty isn't going to suddenly end the problem, and will have tfar less impact than gun amnesties do. After all, as has been said there can be reasons for having all sorts of potentially deadly knives at home, but in the UK very few for guns. Having a gun at home might mean it comes to light later for a completely different reason, whereas few knives will cause comment.

One better plan that I have heared was altering kitchen knives that are sold. I'm sure we've all seen the 6" razor sharp cutters with a vicious point for sale. But why the point? Shefs have no use for them - they only use the main blade and use the point on short, dextrous knives. The smaller knives whilst still pretty nasty if you're stabbed with them are a picnic compared to their larger cousins.

Of course knives in other shops would still exist, but this would at least limit how easily the kitchen knife can be used to kill in a moment of rage.

Where things such as "happy slapping" have come from I've no idea. Perhaps without a substitiute for Empire where the disaffected either emigrated or were eventually dragooned into the Army where in some garrisons death rates approached 80% and so constantly needed replenishment allowed such elements to be removed from society. (along with many who were relatively blameless of course).

Jobs are far less manual now. People are far less likely to return home of an evening exhausted, wanting nothing more than to eat and sleep. After a booring day at school / college / bordering on pointless beaurocratic job people are more keen on exitement.

Previous legitimate avenues such as watching men and women fight unarmed or with weapons are not allowed any more. Nor is the casual cruelty of cock fighting and bear baiting (for the record I'm fine with adults killing each other, but if someone tries to hurt an animal purely for the purpose of pain I'd happily kill them).

So, the frustrated who are given hope by politicians only to see it dashed have fewer than ever methods to slake their blood lust, and turn their depraved tastes on hurting the innocent.

~:smoking:

[scooter_the_shooter]

Wasn't referring to you in particular, but if you are running around with a blade then ... well, the label fits :2thumbsup:


I still don't know what a toe rag is. I guess it means thug?

[English assassin]

Toe rag means scrote.

Hope that helps.

[scooter_the_shooter]

I just went to a dictonary website and they didn't have what scrote means either.(I feel stupid:no: )


Hows is carrying around a little piece of metal dangerous. If I ever have to fight on the street I'll chuck a rock at em'.

[rory_20_uk]

Scrote = scrotum.

Basically scum, or some other derogatory comment.

~:smoking: