Are you an immigrant ? We'll implant a chip in you...

[Blodrast]

Was looking around on http://slashdot.org, at this article (Proposal to Implant RFID Chips in Immigrants) (http://yro.slashdot.org/yro/06/06/02/1514252.shtml).

These are not necessarily relevant in and of themselves, I just mentioned them so that you can see the path by which I got to the actual article: http://www.livescience.com/scienceoffiction/060531_rfid_chips.html

For yor convenience, I'll paste the article here:
Proposal to Implant Tracking Chips in Immigrants
By Bill Christensen

posted: 31 May 2006
07:04 pm ET

Scott Silverman, Chairman of the Board of VeriChip Corporation, has proposed implanting the company's RFID tracking tags in immigrant and guest workers. He made the statement on national television on May 16.

Silverman was being interviewed on "Fox & Friends." Responding to the Bush administration's call to know "who is in our country and why they are here," he proposed using VeriChip RFID implants to register workers at the border, and then verify their identities in the workplace. He added, "We have talked to many people in Washington about using it...."

The VeriChip is a very small Radio Frequency Identification (RFID) tag about the size of a large grain of rice. It can be injected directly into the body; a special coating on the casing helps the VeriChip bond with living tissue and stay in place. A special RFID reader broadcasts a signal, and the antenna in the VeriChip draws power from the signal and sends its data. The VeriChip is a passive RFID tag; since it does not require a battery, it has a virtually unlimited life span.

RFID tags have long been used to identify animals in a variety of settings; livestock, laboratory animals and pets have been "chipped" for decades. Privacy advocates have long expressed concerns about this technology being used in human beings.

In a related story, Colombian President Alvaro Uribe allegedly remarked that microchips could be used to track seasonal workers to visiting U.S. senators Jeff Sessions (Alabama) and Arlen Specter (Pennsylvania). "President Uribe said he would consider having Colombian workers have microchips implanted in their bodies before they are permitted to enter the US for seasonal work," Specter told Congress on April 25.

Implanting microchips in human beings for the purpose of monitoring is not exactly news for science fiction fans; Alfred Bester wrote about "skull bugs" in his 1974 novel The Computer Connection:

"...you don't know what's going on in the crazy culture outside. It's a bugged and drugged world. Ninety percent of the bods have bugs implanted in their skulls in hospital when they're born. They're monitored constantly."
(Read more about Alfred Bester's skull bugs)

VeriChips are legal for implantation in people in the U.S.; see VeriChip RFID Tag Patient Implant Badges Now FDA Approved. See also a related story on a Proposed National Worker DNA Fingerprint Database. Read more at RFID implants for guest workers, Latin leader keen on ID chips and Chip implants for migrant workers?.

Note: The source for this story was inadvertently omitted; read the press release at spychips.com; also, see the Silverman interview transcript.

(This Science Fiction in the News story used with permission from Technovelgy.com - where science meets fiction.)

* George Orwell's Illnesses Influenced '1984'
* State Would Outlaw Mandatory Microchip Implants
* Chip Implants Proposed To Halt Blackmarket Cadaver Trade
* Two Workers Have Tracking Chips Implanted Into Them
* More Parents Going High-Tech to Track Kids



So, what do y'all think about this ?
Should we implant chips in human beings ?
I do have an opinion about this, but I'll let some of you express yours first; it just seems more fair to me that way - to maintain the main post of the topic just informative, without actual opinions. I am sure the following posts will have plenty of that:2thumbsup: .

[Blodrast]

hmm, replying to own thread, how lame...
Anyway, I just thought it would make an interesting point to this thread to say that relatively recently (4-5 months ago) I read a paper (published in 2005) on breaking the RFID encryption used in car keys and wireless payment tags.

You can find the general idea here: http://www.jhu.edu/news_info/news/home05/jan05/rfid.html,
and if you're actually interested in the paper, you can find it here: http://rfid-analysis.org/.

Please note that before someone jumps in to say that "Oh, but for these chips we'll use better algorithms" and similar stuff, the encryption algorithm in the TI's devices was quite strong and "difficult to break", too. The problem lay in its implementation. ~;)

Some highlights:


Using a relatively inexpensive electronic device, criminals could wirelessly probe a car key tag or payment tag in close proximity, and then use the information obtained from the probe to crack the secret cryptographic key on the tag, the scientists said. By obtaining this key, lawbreakers could more easily circumvent the auto theft prevention system in that person's car or potentially charge their own gasoline purchases to the tag owner's account.

The researchers said that more than 150 million of these transponders are embedded in keys for newer vehicles built by at least three leading manufacturers. The transponders are also inside more than 6 million key chain tags used for wireless gasoline purchases. The computer security researchers discovered a way that tech-savvy thieves can get around the encryption safeguards in these systems.

They then purchased a commercial microchip costing less than $200 and programmed it to find the secret key for a gasoline purchase tag owned by one of the researchers. By linking 16 such chips together, the group cracked the secret key in about 15 minutes.

The researchers had similar success with a chip-equipped car key. With the secret key in hand, the team was able to simulate the RFID tag and disarm the car's anti-theft system without the built-in tag present. (Keyless remote control systems to lock and unlock car doors do not use RFID chips).

[GeneralHankerchief]

Gah, I should probably stay out of this one because my emotions will get in the way...

But that said, if the USA ever does plant chips in its residents, I will immediately move to a country that does not. Even if it's -removed-.

Edit: Removed the country name before the mods slap me. Just imagine the worst, most oppressive, dangerous country you can think of. That's where I'd go.

[Fragony]

This has to be a late april's fool. Anyway, if I ever take an implant I want to have a red eye like the terminator.

[Ironside]

If the politicians and thier friends agrees to do it first and thier movement is public information then I'll consider it.






Even if that will only happen when hell freezes over, my consideration will last about 0,4 seconds before I move to another country.



Thinking about a bit more, I can possibly consider it when it comes to very severe crimes with a high re-offending frequence (pedofiles), but that's about it.

[Banquo's Ghost]

Thinking about a bit more, I can possibly consider it when it comes to very severe crimes with a high re-offending frequence (pedofiles), but that's about it.

And therein lies the dilemma and the slippery slope it teeters upon. If you concede the principle of monitoring as an appropriate response to one situation, then a government can extend it to other circumstances almost at will.

All they have to do is frighten the voters enough and soon all registered liberals will be tagged. ~;)

There's always one idiot willing to give up liberty for apparent security, and always a politician willing to help him.


(Just to make my point very clear, because the text medium may mislead, I am not referring to you as being any such idiot. :smile:)

[scooter_the_shooter]

Conspiracy mode ON

Sounds to much like what the anti christ would do:help: I'd never take a chip:furious3:....they'd have to take my guns first:idea2: maybe their is connection....they always say the anti christ will pretend to be a peace lover:no: once the guns are gone he'll make his move and put chips with 666 stamped on them, in all of us!



conspiracy mode off


But that probably won't be far from the truth when the anti christ comes. Which is why no one will voluntarily get a chip.


And even an athesist doesn't like the idea of chips I'd think.







ok enough of that I dont want to go OT.

People won't ever accept chips..... but, They make them small enough now that when you get a shot they could put it in you....




oh...I just realized this is about immigrants!


sorry about the grammar

[Ironside]

And therein lies the dilemma and the slippery slope it teeters upon. If you concede the principle of monitoring as an appropriate response to one situation, then a government can extend it to other circumstances almost at will.

All they have to do is frighten the voters enough and soon all registered liberals will be tagged. ~;)

There's always one idiot willing to give up liberty for apparent security, and always a politician willing to help him.

(Just to make my point very clear, because the text medium may mislead, I am not referring to you as being any such idiot. :smile:)

No worries. I'm very aware of that slope, that's why I would only possibly consider it in that case.
I mean if properly introduced it would be a true wonder for most crime solving. No thefts, most murders solved, etc, etc. That it would be that wonderful world that makes you wake up soaked in sweat and screaming in the middle of the night is another issue :help: .

[Divinus Arma]

I'm sure most of you know my stance on illegal immigration. :wall:

But this is an unethical act of dehumanization.

[Zalmoxis]

I'm sure most of you know my stance on illegal immigration. :wall:

But this is an unethical act of dehumanization.
Seconded based on the fact that I hate chips.

[Papewaio]

So instead of a drivers license, credit card and other forms of ID and cash you could have a chip that identifys who you are. That could be used to open secured lockers with a bio-identity lock and could have important medical information on it in the event of an accident.

So it wouldn't be immigrants who get these, it would be the ultra rich who use it to create an electronic maze to ward off others.

[scooter_the_shooter]

Why in the world would you want one, the gestapo err batfe (and friends) could find you:no:

[Husar]

So instead of a drivers license, credit card and other forms of ID and cash you could have a chip that identifys who you are. That could be used to open secured lockers with a bio-identity lock and could have important medical information on it in the event of an accident.
I prefer taking some small card in my portemonnaie, or maybe strapping the chip to my body, but NO IMPLANT, no chip under my skin except for some medical purposes.
Except if I get the same red eyes Fragony gets and the HUD with targeting, library and all the other stuff Terminator has.~;)

[doc_bean]

But this is an unethical act of dehumanization.

it deserves to be repeated

[Avicenna]

If you could get your hands on all the illegals, why not just go for deportation?

[solypsist]

the only kind of implants i approve of are of the breast variety.

[Idaho]

the only kind of implants i approve of are of the breast variety.
Not fussed about those either - although unlike the implants in the OP, they wouldn't make me leave the country ~:laugh:

[rory_20_uk]

It does sound far fetched: "yup we found you, you're an illegal. But we're going to let you free, and after a while we'll gather up a sample of people. Depending on who is chipped will enable us to statistically examine the number of illegals..."

Basically, is this so that once illegals are caught, they are chipped and then deported so they can't come back in? Else, as has been said just boot the buggers out.

~:smoking:

[drone]

How hard will they make it to remove/modify the chips? That's going to be a booming business if this gets through.

[Papewaio]

I prefer taking some small card in my portemonnaie, or maybe strapping the chip to my body, but NO IMPLANT, no chip under my skin except for some medical purposes.
Except if I get the same red eyes Fragony gets and the HUD with targeting, library and all the other stuff Terminator has.~;)

I wouldn't have it implanted, but I can see some technophiles who would.

I for one don't even have a credit card. I prefer paying in cash and logging it in my own account book rather then have the entire world know my spending habits or lack thereof.

[solypsist]

oh hey waitaminute. i knew this idea sounded sort of familiar....

https://i5.tinypic.com/11tpusn.jpg

[scooter_the_shooter]

WOW I agree with solyplist twice in one week (I read his gun post too)