View Full Version : Are camels a good unit to have in army?
Patriarch of Constantinople
06-07-2006, 16:00
I was playing sassanids in BI and i used alexanders tactics to win. But heres the question, I used camels in the tactic but half of them die from like half of the enemy infantry. Are they good to have in an army? thanks
Hannibal99
x-dANGEr
06-07-2006, 16:58
Good against heavily armored cav (YOu can't kill them, rout them).
Garvanko
06-07-2006, 18:35
They scare horses, so yes, they are a good unit for your armies. They are also very fast.
professorspatula
06-07-2006, 18:47
They're good yes, but they make rude noises and spit at your troops when your back is turned, so be wary!
Dutch_guy
06-07-2006, 20:05
Are camels a good unit to have in army?
Where is Mithrandir when you need him !
To the point:
Camels are great in Arid regions ( deserts ) but lack the charge power a regular unit of cavalry has.
Camels are good to have in your army if you're planning on facing horse based enemies. Camels get a combat bonus against horses, and are an effective anti-cav unit. Keep in mind though, prolonged melee is never good for a mounted unit, and it most certainly isn't for a camel unit - armoured or not.
Best thing to do is take a couple of Camels ( about 3 ) in your army, then concentrate them on the enemy (cav) bodyguard, when the latter is engaged in battle.
Camels aren;t the best units, even against horses, and thus they suffer even head on against the better cav. units you might see later in the game.
So if you do wish to use camels, bring on a few of them and concentrate on one enemy cav. unit for best effect.
:balloon2:
BHCWarman88
06-07-2006, 20:08
They good in Deserts and Such,and yes,they scare Horsers,but I don't think they be good against Clibs (ERE Clbis or Sassdian Clibs)..
Mithrandir
06-07-2006, 21:52
Where is Mithrandir when you need him !
Here I am! :)
I can only speak for MTW VI, but if camels are anything in RTW like they were in MTW, you're ok with my advice...
Camels are great in Arid regions ( deserts ) but lack the charge power a regular unit of cavalry has.
Camels are good to have in your army if you're planning on facing horse based enemies. Camels get a combat bonus against horses, and are an effective anti-cav unit.
True,though the lower charge is no problem.
Keep in mind though, prolonged melee is never good for a mounted unit, and it most certainly isn't for a camel unit - armoured or not.
Unless you pit you camels vs cavelry, then there's no problem.
Best thing to do is take a couple of Camels ( about 3 ) in your army, then concentrate them on the enemy (cav) bodyguard, when the latter is engaged in battle. Depends on your style, I used to take 4 or 5 units of camels ,seeing how they could very well rout enemy cav within a few minutes, after which you had a very decent melee unit left for encircling the enemy.
Camels aren;t the best units, even against horses, and thus they suffer even head on against the better cav. units you might see later in the game.
So if you do wish to use camels, bring on a few of them and concentrate on one enemy cav. unit for best effect.I always liked you and respected your posts...until now...
There is no better unit than camels! :laugh4:
seriously, back in the ol' days with my almohad army, none stood up to them, I had them at Valour 3 (cheaper than v0 lancers I think) and they never lost to another melee cav unit, arid,desert or even lush terrain. Just make sure your camels face off vs cav and don;t get too much morale penalties.
My strategy was usually very dependent upon camels : have strong infantry (AUM&militia sergs V3 / V4 on 15k) holding&killing the enemy infantry,at least 3 very well armoured pav arbs, or other shooters to make sure the enemy has to appraoch and pitted my camels vs the cav, while the melee was going on, the cav on the flanks were seen off by my camels, which would then charge the infantry in the back..
Almost a fail proof plan, only when the enemy outguns you and has horse archers it may prove to be difficult...
:balloon2:Couldn't agree more :)
x-dANGEr
06-07-2006, 22:15
Where is Mithrandir when you need him !
To the point:
Camels are great in Arid regions ( deserts ) but lack the charge power a regular unit of cavalry has.
Camels are good to have in your army if you're planning on facing horse based enemies. Camels get a combat bonus against horses, and are an effective anti-cav unit. Keep in mind though, prolonged melee is never good for a mounted unit, and it most certainly isn't for a camel unit - armoured or not.
Best thing to do is take a couple of Camels ( about 3 ) in your army, then concentrate them on the enemy (cav) bodyguard, when the latter is engaged in battle.
Camels aren;t the best units, even against horses, and thus they suffer even head on against the better cav. units you might see later in the game.
So if you do wish to use camels, bring on a few of them and concentrate on one enemy cav. unit for best effect.
:balloon2:
Camels in RTW/BI aren't effective alone (Maybe in RTW, because they are the strongest cav their too), the main tactic in BI is to hold with good cav and flank with camels. Just for their morale factor, and attacking from the back kind of diverts the enemy's cav killing power off them.
Severous
06-07-2006, 22:50
As the Egyptians expanding rapidly I only had the option of Camels as mercenary hires. I hired them the make up numbers and keep the expansion going.
I saw their particular advantages but didnt see them as significantly better or worse than other units.
Remember them most for their archer units. As mellee cavalry I dont rank them. Not fast nor particulary powerful. But as another morale hit on the enemy cavalry it could be marginally useful.
The camel cataphracts in RTW are very strong. They are armored can go toe to toe with any heavy cavalry plus they have the scare bonus.
The disadvantage is that they are slower and cannot chase down horse cavalry.
They are a low tech unit so you can build them quickly. They are cheap to build and cheap to keep so you can bring lots of them. As the Egyptians I use them in swarms and overwhelm my opponents with volume.
Sensei Warrior
06-09-2006, 06:57
I have to agree with Mithrandir on this one:
There is no better unit than camels! :laugh4:
Camels are an inexpensive, death to all cav, answer as one could hope for. Use them, love them relish in their weird awkward looking existence.
DukeofSerbia
06-09-2006, 12:15
There is no better unit than camels! :laugh4:
:laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:
Bedouin camels in MTW are ok. In my remoded XL mod I even added valor bonus for them in Arabia. :2thumbsup:
But Berber camels are one of the worst unit I ever saw in MTW. In my Almohad campaign I recruited none of them.
x-dANGEr
06-09-2006, 12:25
There is no better unit than camels! :laugh4:
Yes their is.. Camel archers ?! :P
But seriously, Cataphract Camels in RTW are the best in a harsh fight, but bad for a long one. Heavy Armored Camels in BI can be good, especially against barb cav..
Mithrandir
06-09-2006, 12:57
Yes their is.. Camel archers ?! :P
But seriously, Cataphract Camels in RTW are the best in a harsh fight, but bad for a long one. Heavy Armored Camels in BI can be good, especially against barb cav..
Camel archers (in MTW) usually weren't worth their unit slot, they'd lose in a shoot against pretty much anyone and were half as effective in melee as their counterparts...
x-dANGEr
06-09-2006, 17:18
Well in RTW, they work effectively like other HA (Which is the most superior unit kind), and also have the morale advantage against other cav. Of course, they are just a morale power, not up for a strong melee fight. I never used them in M: TW, so can't tell about it their :) (Even though I only played Almohads, Egyptians and Turkey).
But Berber camels are one of the worst unit I ever saw in MTW. In my Almohad campaign I recruited none of them.
Berber camels are specific anti-jinette units, being able to both outshoot and outmelee them. However, I agree that, compared to Bedouin camel warriors, the bow doesn't make up for their reduced melee-stat.
DukeofSerbia
06-10-2006, 16:29
Archers are better for killing Jinetes. Berber camels can be only recruited in Norther Africa and archers can everywhere.
In vanilla RTW Cataphract Camelels are strongest mounted unit after elephants.
Mithrandir
06-10-2006, 16:37
Yes, but archers can't succefully face off vs Jinettes in melee.
DukeofSerbia
06-10-2006, 16:42
Muwahid foot soldiers.
But to be honest I never had problems with Jinets. They are too weak to survive rain of arrows as I always shoot them first...
x-dANGEr
06-10-2006, 17:08
But they're problematic at the start when you can't field archers ;)
Mithrandir
06-10-2006, 17:38
1 on 1 the jinnettes will win,
they're too fast to get shot up too badly...
DukeofSerbia
06-11-2006, 09:37
Javelin armed units had drasticly lower range then archers, so archers always won. Jinettes are only good for armoured units.
And Berber camels can be only recruited in Northern Africa for historical reasons. And they are so expensive. They don't worth that money.
Mithrandir
06-11-2006, 12:38
we're drifting off the original topic, but I think I've convinced all the nonebelievers with my essay ;)..so here goes :
Jinettes vs archers :
archers will get a chance to fire once, some jinettes may die, after that the jinettes are close enough to use their javelins, which means they're too close for the archers to shoot. Then it comes down to melee, which favours the jinettes.
Devastatin Dave
06-12-2006, 15:27
They're alright to have in an army, I personally like their toes...
And Berber camels can be only recruited in Northern Africa for historical reasons. And they are so expensive. They don't worth that money.
Hmmm I like them, you get an archer unit without having to worry about mounted units too much, they are great little archer islands who can even chop up some weaker infantry.
DukeofSerbia
06-12-2006, 20:12
we're drifting off the original topic, but I think I've convinced all the nonebelievers with my essay ;)..so here goes :
Jinettes vs archers :
archers will get a chance to fire once, some jinettes may die, after that the jinettes are close enough to use their javelins, which means they're too close for the archers to shoot. Then it comes down to melee, which favours the jinettes.
But there is no army consisted only from archers. AI never send Jinetes to fight. Only if is desperate.
Canclusion:
Bedouin Camels are great and cheap horse killers for 125 florins if you are Turks and 92 if you are Egypt.
Berber Camels don't worth 300 florins.
In the original rome total the armenians had cataphract camels which were good to have because they were better than the regular cataphracts
DukeofSerbia
06-15-2006, 11:54
Parthia, not Armenia.
The Spartan (Returns)
06-15-2006, 15:39
In the original rome total the armenians had cataphract camels which were good to have because they were better than the regular cataphracts
their charge is worst than the regular cataphracts.
Kralizec
06-22-2006, 16:31
The camel cataphracts in RTW are very strong. They are armored can go toe to toe with any heavy cavalry plus they have the scare bonus.
The disadvantage is that they are slower and cannot chase down horse cavalry.
True, and in the event that they should rout (unlikely as they have good stats, but still) they will al get cut down because there isn't much in the game that can't catch up with them.
Camels are good in deserts, against Heavy Horses and routing troops.
They are weak vs infantry, missiles, missiles cav, and even light cav.
Unless you use them for specifically what they are for, they will lose. Even a flank attack gets you in trouble.
Mithrandir
06-23-2006, 00:17
Welcome to the bOrg Animal, you will now be assimilated.
Mithrandir
06-23-2006, 00:23
Camels are good in deserts, against Heavy Horses and routing troops.
They are weak vs infantry, missiles, missiles cav, and even light cav.
Unless you use them for specifically what they are for, they will lose. Even a flank attack gets you in trouble.
Camels are great in any terrain, true they get a bonus in desert, but that doesn;t mean they don't win on Lush as well.
They do even better vs light cavelry than vs heavy cavelry and pretty decent flankers. Only point you rightfully made is that they need to take care not to get caught by archers.
Don;t take this the wrong way..it's just my purpose here on the Org to let everyone know how good camels are ~D.
-Mithrandir.
Okay Mithrandir, as the resident org expert on all things camel, is there an appreciable difference between the camel units of the Muslim factions? For example, are Turkish camels better or worse than Eggy camels?
I'm aiming to have a crack at the Turks after I finish my current Danish campaign....
Severous
06-23-2006, 07:37
I build units each turn in all cities, hire all mercenaries I can.
Mercenary Bedouin camels of archer and warrior types were part of my Egyptian army. Like animal said...they have their strengths and weaknesses. In a mixed unit army they have a role to play like any other unit.
IfI ever had a choice of camel or cavalry I would have to decide what my stack lacked most and the enemy it was likely to encounter.
Okay Mithrandir, as the resident org expert on all things camel, is there an appreciable difference between the camel units of the Muslim factions? For example, are Turkish camels better or worse than Eggy camels?
All Muslim factions can recruit Bedouin warriors in north-eastern Africa, Syria and Arabia, but the Almohads get Berber camels in north-west Africa as well. Personally, I wouldn't bother with the Berbers: they are a nice counter against jinettes, but the bow does not make up for the low the close-combat stats, and their building requirements are rather steep.
Alex the conqueror
06-23-2006, 14:05
yes they are better units, especially against horses
Mithrandir
06-23-2006, 14:11
Ludens answered you question quite thoroughly :bow:
There is no difference in stats, unless a certain province adds a bonus.
There is no difference in stats, unless a certain province adds a bonus.
Bedouin camel warriors * Charge 6 Attack 2 Defence 0 Armour 2 Speed 9, 14, 16 Morale 0 Cost 125 Support cost 40
Berber camels * * * * * Charge 2 Attack 0 Defence 0 Armour 2 Speed 9, 14, 16 Morale 0 Cost 300 Support cost 30
You can get a valour bonus for Berbers in Morocco (the crusader_production file also says Algeria, but valour bonuses are apparently only awarded in the first province the file mentions). Bedouin warriors do not get a valour bonus in any province.
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