The Spanish campaign(s)

[Tony Furze]

Hello.
Here s a fairly typical campaign since I started in Dec.
Spanish/Early/Easy

I get I beria okay,leaving out Portugal.I take Navarre. This is my fifith attempt at this campaign-four times I ve "lost"

I carry on against the al Mohads,taking Morrocco, all the way to Cyrenecia. I ve learnt not to use the Crusade option until necessary. So I ve used it only once so far against the al Mohads in Granada,mainly to trap them in Cordoba.It went well.

After Cyrenecia the al Mohads disappear for a while.At this stage money is really low and I have to decide whether to put up with the insufficient funds message,or give up. I decide to stick it out.

I mange to build ships 2x2 from Castille then from Leon stretching around the N Sea. In come begins to improve.

The French send a Crusade to Portugal where the al Mohads have reappeared.I remove all my troops from the provinces the Crusade route,then attack with the French,who only have 500 men against my 1000+We win and I get the province.

Then I see a way to Ireland and send an army there.Beat them.

I send my second Crusade to Tripoli-the Egyptians.

My king dies of a "disease".There are only two little girl heiresses,end of campaign.

Before I ve lost due to lack of funds-a state of bankruptcy.
Also once I (foolishly) committed my princes to battles.
Then I even got to post 1400 in a showdown with the French but my kingdom fell apart with multiple rebellions.

Questions: should I have stabbed the French in the back in Portugal?
how do you make money quickly?

[R'as al Ghul]

how do you make money quickly?

You could capture some nobles and sell them back. You could have tried to capture the Almohad leader or a prince.
Making money quick is difficult, better is to build up your economy before waging war. You could make peace with France and build up an atlantic trade route or use your crusades to gain profitable provinces in the holy land. Sometimes, when you are a good christian, the pope will send you some money.
There're also some guides in the M:TW section that are worth reading.

:bow:

[Tony Furze]

Thanks R'as al Ghul.
How do you "capture" nobles and a leader?
I built up the agriculture as well as I could but barely got above 10 000 fls in the whole campaign. It all ended well before 1205.
The Pope DID send around 3000 fls(where did it go?On maintenace?)which was quite generous. There s a problem of my balancing the accounts/books I feel.
I even retrained alot to save expense of new troops,and kept to low level armies as we were fighting in the desert.
TF

[caravel]

Hello.
Here s a fairly typical campaign since I started in Dec.
Spanish/Early/Easy

I get I beria okay,leaving out Portugal.I take Navarre. This is my fifith attempt at this campaign-four times I ve "lost"

You should first try and sieze Navarre and Valencia, then work towards taking Aragon because if you leave it too late it will be full of Early Royal Knights, while building up to crusading against the Almohads. The Aragon and Navarre northern border will provide you with a good mountainous defensive point.


I carry on against the al Mohads,taking Morrocco, all the way to Cyrenecia. I ve learnt not to use the Crusade option until necessary. So I ve used it only once so far against the al Mohads in Granada,mainly to trap them in Cordoba.It went well.

You should use the Crusades against the Almohads, and take almost all of their provinces, just leave one. The crusading will boost your kings influence, thus reducing the likelihood of civil wars.


After Cyrenecia the al Mohads disappear for a while.At this stage money is really low and I have to decide whether to put up with the insufficient funds message,or give up. I decide to stick it out.

Don't bother with Cyrenacia, if the Almohads were there then it was an ideal place to leave them.


I mange to build ships 2x2 from Castille then from Leon stretching around the N Sea. In come begins to improve.

This is important, you will need good fleets to surround your coastlines, and then extend them to those seas containg the most ports in order to start bringing in the trade income.


The French send a Crusade to Portugal where the al Mohads have reappeared.I remove all my troops from the provinces the Crusade route,then attack with the French,who only have 500 men against my 1000+We win and I get the province.

This is the problem, the Almohads reappeared. If you'd have left them with that one province this wouldn't have occured. Also portugal should be one of your prime aquisitions. It should be taken, garrissoned with as many peasants as necessary, then you should build militia buildings, a church, and a brothel if necessary, keeping it on very low taxes. When spies are available, place one in there to improve loyalty. All of the Almohads ex provinces should be above 120% loyalty or the Almohads will reappear (this is why they can reappear when one of their ex provinces is rebel).


Then I see a way to Ireland and send an army there.Beat them.

Ireland is too distant and will tie up one of your armies for not alot of return. You will have to build a port, and develop it. It's best avoided until you've conquered Britain.


I send my second Crusade to Tripoli-the Egyptians.

Not a good crusade target, again a distant province, and you're not strong enough in your homelands. The egyptians will put you under immense pressure trying to retake the province and may declare a jihad, you will need a strong navy connecting to these lands in order to bring in your reinforcements. If your fleets were controlling those seas then it might have been a good idea, at a later stage.


My king dies of a "disease".There are only two little girl heiresses,end of campaign.

Before I ve lost due to lack of funds-a state of bankruptcy.
Also once I (foolishly) committed my princes to battles.
Then I even got to post 1400 in a showdown with the French but my kingdom fell apart with multiple rebellions.

This can happen to anyone, don't worry about it!


Questions: should I have stabbed the French in the back in Portugal?
how do you make money quickly?

You probably should have got to Portugal before them. You may have had an opportunity to use spies in portgual and try to trigger a rebellion (with a possible almohad reappearance!), this would have given you an excuse to crusade. Taking on the French would have been an option. Don't worry too much about alliances.


How do you "capture" nobles and a leader?

When you fight a battle and win you may capture fleeing enemy troops. The ransom on these is higher if they are nobility or royalty.


I built up the agriculture as well as I could but barely got above 10 000 fls in the whole campaign. It all ended well before 1205.

You should only build up the agriculture in those provinces which will give a worthwhile return. It should be done quite early on before you start going to war. Spending several 1000's of florins teching Cyrenacia up to 80% farmland wouldn't be a good idea for example.


The Pope DID send around 3000 fls(where did it go?On maintenace?)which was quite generous. There s a problem of my balancing the accounts/books I feel.
I even retrained alot to save expense of new troops,and kept to low level armies as we were fighting in the desert.
TF

The pope sends money when he has it, though you can't rely on it. Your economic game is probably not up to scratch, but when I started playing this game neither was mine, nor anyones. Eventually you'll get used it all, and prioritise how/what/when/where you construct/train/invade etc.

Regards


Scrotus

[Tony Furze]

Chez (I prefer Chez)
Thanks,and more thanks. This is what I need. Im up to my eyeballs in MTW guides and I ve read them all at least once. Im really really really bad at translating words to practice.

My dealing with the French Crusade was purely intuitive-"Don t let them use any of your troops,"said the small voice,"then you ll get Portugal".

In one of the other campaigns I bribed both Portugal and Valencia (theCid). It worked quite well, and the bribes were affordable.

The 2x2 ships I remembered from your advice-keep two in each region.

May give it another go tonight or try another faction for a break.

Very best wishes and thanks again.
TF

[tigger_on_vrb]

Good advice from CheziScrotus XVI, but I'd like to add my own opinion about Portugal. Heres my strategy and it has served me well:

Take all of the Iberian penisula which is rebel except Portugal and without declaring war on anyone I always bribe El Cid. Meanwhile build up an army and ports+ships where possible. Have a bishop in each province of Iberia and maybe the first 2 provinces in north Africa.
The Alomohads will get restless with the teritories they have and will want war, but in my experience the AI will always take rebel provinces before war with the player. This means eventually they will attack Portugal. This is not easy to do for the computer because of the army there and the fact they will get solid christian uprisings. Once they have worn themselves out and reduced there forces sufficiently THEN you attack. The perfect time to do this is when you have seen a large rebellion in Portugal and you invade the Province directly below your holdings (name anyone?). Between you and the rebels you shouls wipe out most of their forces. If you time the attack well the Alomohads will have very few forces left to challenge you.

After taking out the Alomohads I wipe out Aragorn in 2 turns (so you dont get excommunicated) and then go for Egypt. Jinettes, feudal sgts, archers and a few feudal MAA are an awsome desert force.

[jadast]

I bribe Navarre and Valencia then attack Aragon. Ships I build out of Valencia not Leon because I want troops being produced in there due to the iron advantage. By this time Portugal and the Almohads are usually fighting. I try to take advantage of them both at this time to lock up the remaining provinces. Moving to Africa at this point and driving through to Tunisia. This will give you 3 provinces that can become big money producers. In the 3 African provinces and Aragon I build up all the mines and farming improvements.

By this time England or France should be fighting someone - hopefully themselves. If so I try to poach Toulouse or Aguitaine from whichever appears weakest.

At this point I crusade. Typically Serbia first. It is close enough to support if I am pumping out ships and is close to the Greece and Constantinople just in case I get a chanch to grab either. Crusades are then launched to Pomerania, Prussia, and Lithuania. My target here is Lithuania to get turcopoles.

From here I settle into a war or attrition with who ever is in my way in Europe. I try to knock out as many Catholics as possible as soon as possible. This policy does at least 3 things for me: 1)keeps the Pope out of my business, 2) it keeps foriegn crusades from soaking up my troops, 3) gives me non Catholics to crusade against.

Love to crusade and get those Knights of Santiago!

[Tony Furze]

I did try the HRE but my heart wasn t in it and it was tooooo different from what I d been doing.

So Im on Spain again-a little more optimistic.
I ve reached 1119 (year) and 17505 florins.

Taken the whole of Iberian Peninsula including Portugal and Aragon which was full of Royal Knights but I whipped them. This time I bribed the garrison in Cordoba (al Mohads) and used the army to get the province.

Im building ships from Leon.I ve left whats left of the al Mohads in Cyrenecia...

Crusaded twice:for Granada and some rebels (592 strong) in Tunisia.
Thanks for all the help.TF

[Matty]

And make sure you allocate the governorships to your men with the highest acumen - this makes a huge difference in the early game.

EDIT: I turtle for a while and let one province rebel, providing me with an opportunity to both train up generals and gain cash from their forfeit lands.
Don't crusade the holy land until you have a fleet linking your lands and can go directly there - I was forced to fight both Byzantines and a HRE crusade and the influence hit when it failed nearly sent me into civil war...

[Tony Furze]

Thanks again.
A few more questions:
Mattys point-if you remove the governorship from one general and give it to another does that have dire consequences? (eg mercenary revenge etc)

jadast s point-if you "poach" what sort of long term conseqences does that have ? Here you mention in relation to England and France.

I ve reached over 100 000 fls rising each turn. A sea chain all round the Med and the North Sea. (Took ages to build and I ve reached 1186.)
Also just Crusaded into Greece, held by the Egyptians.
TF

[tigger_on_vrb]

AFAIK the general goes back to the loyalty he had before you gave him the title. I've never had a problem with a rebellion because of stripping a title. If you are worried about any general / ex general and his loyalty keep him in the stack containing your king and he cant rebel - only the stack leader can rebel so only his loyalty rating is relevant.
Remember this near the start of the game too - if you train a new unit with 1 command star in a region where no units have any he will be the stack leader (even above a governor). If this guy also has very low loyalty then move him into the stack of one of your generals or the king. This is useful to help reduce civil wars!

[jadast]

Tony - Here is an example. France and England are at war. France takes Anjou and Britainy which leaves Auitaine cut off from the rest of England. This is where I take Aquitaine. Since I do not share any other borders with England we get the automatic cease fire once I take the castle. Unless England counter attacks the French and retakes a bordering province. Either way the long term result is I will now have a source of income that my enemy does not.

[Tony Furze]

Thanks,jadast, for the clarification. There are so many layers to this game...TF

[King Kurt]

I ve reached over 100 000 fls rising each turn. A sea chain all round the Med and the North Sea. (Took ages to build and I ve reached 1186.)
Also just Crusaded into Greece, held by the Egyptians.
TF

Tony - from a personal point of view, I would say you have too much money!! Build some inns, get some mercanaries, bribe some provinces, build up a load of buildings. I have often felt that in MTW you build up to a critical mass and then you become difficult to stop. I like mercs and use them to build a force quickly for a task - a new invasion or supporting an area under threat. Also I like to use them to provide troop types I can't build - for example in my recent Irish campaign I brought any merc bows I saw as you can't build them as the Irish. Also buy any good cav you see - always useful.
I always try to keep some money in the bank but top priority is spending.:2thumbsup:

[Tony Furze]

Yeah,King. Once again you ve anticpated what I was beginning to feel uneassy about myself. My game was turning into Medieval Monopoly...
Nice to hear about the mercs who ve generally had a bad press.
Thanks for the timely advice.All the best,TF

[macsen rufus]

There are so many layers to this game...

You didn't think it'd would be easy establishing a continent-wide empire, did you? :laugh4:

I'd second King Kurt's point, 100,000 fl is a LOT of money - no need to be struggling with that sort of war chest. There's a lot to invest it in, though. Tech up your provinces for top-notch armies, or get together a load of mercs for those awkward situations. They do get a bad press, and not without some reason, but they also have their uses.

Downside:
- expensive, both to buy and in upkeep
- loyalty can be a bit suspect (eg don't leave a merc general in charge of a big stack the year your king dies :skull: )
- morale (not sure myself, but I've heard mercs have lower morale)
- can't merge or retrain units (except pre-v1.1), so they dwindle over the years

Upside:
- troop types that you can't train, and may desperately need (eg bows for the Irish, camels for Christian factions in the desert)
- available IMMEDIATELY, before the Crusade/Jihad/bad neighbours arrive....
- expendable, good for suicide missions or battles which you KNOW will have high casualties that you can't make good in your regular army, or sending in as a "pre-invasion force" to soften up the enemy before the REAL invasion, or breaking into castles the hard way (hacking at the gates etc)

Things to watch out for: some come well teched up, but rarely with any valour. Sometimes they're units disbanded by another faction because their leader is a scuzzball of some sort. Sometimes identical looking units have different upkeep costs, always check first!

Anyway, mediaeval monopoly is a valid game choice if you enjoy it, but sounds like you're getting a bit bored with that! I find in the early game I have to wage war just to make money; in the end game you need to wage war to SPEND it!

GL with the conquest :2thumbsup:

[Tony Furze]

Thanks,all.
I was going with just the campaign map just to get used to the buildings aspect. Now Im back at 1186. What do you normally do with the "leftovers " of a Crusading army? 1 Fanatic, 3 Knights of Santiago, that sort of thing.
I was tidying up my trroops and some-mercs and Crusaders -can t be retrained.TF

[Martok]

Thanks,all.
I was going with just the campaign map just to get used to the buildings aspect. Now Im back at 1186. What do you normally do with the "leftovers " of a Crusading army? 1 Fanatic, 3 Knights of Santiago, that sort of thing.
I was tidying up my trroops and some-mercs and Crusaders -can t be retrained.TF
It depends. If I have a castle that needs assaulted, I'll sometimes send in the Leftover Brigade to break down the front door, or perhaps send them on a suicide invasion against someone I don't like. ~D Occasionally I'll keep them around til my next Crusade, but only if I plan on launching one in the near future (e.g., the next few years). Often, however, I just wind up disbanding them, as they're not worth keeping around when there's so few men left in a unit.

As an aside, Tony: When you're ready, I highly recommend playing in Glorious Achievements mode. It gives your games a little more "flavor", as it encourages you to play your faction somewhat more historically. In addition, GA mode is nice in that you can win without having to conquer the whole frickin' map. ~:)

[King Kurt]

I really like mercs and do not see why they have a bad press. I think the cost arguement is not strong as any extra cost is out weighed by the advantage of having an instant army, often with troops you can't have. To raise a conventional army needs time and some gathering of units while, if your inn is well populated you can get an instant stack. I also use it to generate a seige train when I need one.
Remnants are another problem - I am not good at reequipping/ retraining - I tend to run units into the ground and rely on merging to take care of numbers. Often my jedi generals are down to 1 man. I am too soft on merc remnants as well, often having small units left in because I like them. i am partial to Italian infantry and they always end up at about 2 men and a dog, but I don't disband them. They do make good garrisons for better castles as small, good morale and valour, forces can hang on to castles for ages in comparison to larger forces - especially as the AI tends to opt for seige as opposed to assault. I also see it as a bit of colour - the old salts doing their tour then back to a cushy number for the veterens of castle duty.
Finaly I always play GA - much more interesting - however, I still go for world domination as well!!!:2thumbsup:

[Tony Furze]

Just been taking on the Egyptians this morning with the help of mercs. Funnily enough the Italian inf. were the only ones I kept in the "clean-up" after. They were quite impressive in their hold the line tactics.
I had two units, but I could nt merge them manually as you do normal units. However when I went to the next battle-defence against the Egyptians- there they were 100 men again.
Is it automatic?

[macsen rufus]

I had two units, but I could nt merge them manually as you do normal units. However when I went to the next battle-defence against the Egyptians- there they were 100 men again.
Is it automatic?

I've never seen that happen in v2.01, so not too sure. All I can say is lucky you :bow:

As for the "broken" units (as I call them), I often make up a stack of these as a small army for special missions. Their main use is taking provinces with a small defending army, maybe a single unit. By using small units I can keep my army size down to something on a par with the defenders - so they don't run away to the castle - but also with enough tactical flexibility to win and ensure no survivors. Such a small units army can be very high valour, cos that's how the units got broken in the first place. Look on them as Mediaeval Special Forces :cool:

[Ciaran]

As an aside, Tony: When you're ready, I highly recommend playing in Glorious Achievements mode. It gives your games a little more "flavor", as it encourages you to play your faction somewhat more historically. In addition, GA mode is nice in that you can win without having to conquer the whole frickin' map. ~:)

Only that you´ll probably end up having conquered the whole map by 1453 (until which you´ll have to wait if you´re playing GA to get victory). For my part, I always have, especially when I start out in Early - I don´t recall a game starting in Early that reached Late, come to think of it.

[King Kurt]

Just remembered a good use for mercs - crusades. Once they have been put in the Crusade stack, you don't have to pay for them. So you can use them to top up a Crusade - especially when it has just been raised - Crusades can be a bit weak with loads of peasants/ fanatics etc so a good influx of solid infantry and cav, ideally good desert types like gallowglasses, Mtd sargents etc, gives the Crusade a nice backbone.:2thumbsup:

[Tony Furze]

Mercs start at zero too. When I put them in a Crusade with a resonably good general they get bonuses.

Nice idea, Macsen.

Thanks everyone.TF

[Martok]

Only that you´ll probably end up having conquered the whole map by 1453 (until which you´ll have to wait if you´re playing GA to get victory). For my part, I always have, especially when I start out in Early - I don´t recall a game starting in Early that reached Late, come to think of it.
You know, I don't think I've ever conqured the entire map more than twice. In Domination mode, I usually just go for the 60% victory; and I've never conquered the whole map in GA mode. Yes, my empire is always one of the superpowers left at the end of a GA game; but as long as I have a comfortable lead in points and like my borders how they are, I usually don't bother attacking anyone else (unless they start something with me!). Of course, I'm almost always a turtler, so that may have something to do with why I don't feel the need to conquer the map.

[Tony Furze]

Got my first win as the Spanish-only on easy but a victory none theless (60%).
Thanks to all.
Martok-I ll take up your suggestion to try a GA next. Anyone any suggestions which ones best to try?

[Martok]

Got my first win as the Spanish-only on easy but a victory none theless (60%).
Thanks to all.
Martok-I ll take up your suggestion to try a GA next. Anyone any suggestions which ones best to try?
Congratulations on your victory, my friend. :bow:

As for a GA campaign, I'd recommend just about any of the Crusading factions. Unless you're feelling masochistic, however, you may want to avoid playing the French, as they have some pretty tough GA goals! As the French in the Early period, you have to Crusade to Antioch and build a Citadel there (the Krak de Chev)--all by 1205. ~:eek: The HRE is also tough, but that's more because of their difficult starting position than their GA goals. The English are interesting, as some of your Homeland provinces are the same as the French's, so you will definitely have to fight to protect your lands from them! ~:) Unfortunately, the GA goals for the other Catholic factions (Danes, Hungarians, & Poles) aren't very exciting for the most part; just Homelands and Conquest, basically.

The Turks and Egyptians are both pretty fun, although you'll probably come to hate the other faction (they fight each other a LOT in this game)! Both factions require building a Grand Mosque by a certain date, and I believe the Turks must launch a Jihad to 1-2 different provinces as well. The Almos also get a somewhat interesting challenge, as their Homelands goal requires they conquer quite a bit of Spanish territory. ~D

The Byzantines are a pretty good challenge, as you're sometimes hard-pressed to hold your lands against all comers. I'm always a little hesitant to recommend the Byz to new players, however, as they can be a bit overwhelming when first learning how to play as them. Between all the provinces you must manage from the start, having to keep an eye on both the Catholic West & the Muslim East, *and* dealing with an army that grows increasingly outdated over time, you have a lot of stuff to keep track of. (I'm not trying to discourage you from playing the Byzantines, but I just dont' want you claiming I didn't warn you! ~;)) I haven't played the Novgorods/Russians enough to know what their GA goals are, so you may want to check them out.

[Tony Furze]

Thanks, Martok. There s a lot of choice there...

I ve tried the Byz and their inf. are really good but as you say they gradually get outclassed. I bought the 100 string inf as mercs in last campaign.

Novgorod isn t playable at early is it?

Just tried English on normal GA but got whipped by the French after just 6 years. I guess thats what the protecting your homelands GA s about.

[caravel]

I would go for the Turks or the Egyptians next. The muslim factions are not as difficult as they seem once you get used to them. The Turks are not easy for newcomers but they can be a baptism of fire that will get you into the game more fully. You're doing the right thing cranking up the difficulty to normal as well. IMHO Once you've done a 60% victory on easy you should never need to go back to easy again.

[Tony Furze]

And a sincere thank you to you, Chez. You ve been there since I started taking MTW seriously.

I love the muslim faction armies-started with them, but knew I couldn t get to win with one of them.

[Vladimir]

And a sincere thank you to you, Chez. You ve been there since I started taking MTW seriously.

I love the muslim faction armies-started with them, but knew I couldn t get to win with one of them.

I like the Turks a lot but be mindful of their staying power, they don't have any. Play them as they were historically and don't count on your line holding for very long. Shoot your enemy up with arrows and bring plenty of :charge: :charge: :charge: .

[tigger_on_vrb]

Yes I would go for the Turks next to enrich your MTW experience. You can learn the wonderful Turcomon horse dance...... and forward 2,3,4 and back 2,3,4 and left........ :2thumbsup:
(see guides for how to use horse archers)

[Martok]

Thanks, Martok. There s a lot of choice there....
Sorry; I didn't exactly narrow down the list for you, did I? My bad! :laugh4:

My top recommendations: Spanish (obviously!), Egyptians, English, and Byzantines--in that order. Overall, my advice is to try out the Eggies first. They have good starting lands, and have a varied and relatively well-rounded unit roster. I'd recommend the Spanish too, if you hadn't already played them. Once you're more comortable with the game and feel you have a better grip on it, I would definitely recommend the English and the Byzantines as well!


Novgorod isn t playable at early is it?
Ack, no they're not. :oops: I have VikingHorde's XL Mod installed, so I've gotten used to the Novgorods being available in Early.

Which, by the way, I definitely recommend you check out some of the mods at some point. You certainly don't have to, but a lot of us have discovered that mods significantly enhance our playing experience. In addition to XL, BKB's SuperMod and Wes' MedMod are both highly regarded as well. (And those are just the major medieval mods; there are some nice "total conversion" mods as well, such as Hellenic Total War.)

[Sensei Warrior]

I love the muslim faction armies-started with them, but knew I couldn t get to win with one of them.

All the Muslim armies are great. With a little practice you can whomp the game with any of them. My very first game I played was with the Almos on Easy in Early for Domination. I started with them because of their position on the map, and achieved a complete victory. The factions I have trouble finishing the game with is the Catholic ones.

In regards to the GA mode, my personal vote is for the Turks or the Eggies, with preference to the Turks. They have some interesting goals to help keep you on your toes. I'm playing a GA with the French and the whole Crusade to Antioch and build a Citadel by 1205 is proving very daunting, although I'm in good shape to do it. The French might be a little too daunting if your new to the game.

Good luck and keep us posted.

[Tony Furze]

I ve chosen Turkish/Early/Normal/GA

Restarted the campaign due to economic reasons and squabbling with the Egyptians over Tripoli-one of my homelands held by them.

Finally got going by attacking the Egyptians early and taking Tripoli and Antioch-great for trade.Patched up with the Egyptians and booted the Byz. out of Lesser Armenia.

oooh I have to go-theres a French Crusade heading my way...

Thanks

[Sensei Warrior]

Ahh the Turks, a very nice choice. With all the talk of Missile Cav I am starting to want to play another game with the Turks. Sigh, will have to wait until I'm done kicking butt with the French.

[caravel]

The Turks are my main faction, I can take on anything as them, but fail miserably with most other factions, except maybe the Hungarians and the Byzantine. The catholic factions are not my strong point. Defeating them as a muslim faction is.

Novgorod can be easily modded as playable, without installing a mod. Should be a thread on that in the modding forum somewhere.

[Sensei Warrior]

The Turks are my main faction, I can take on anything as them, but fail miserably with most other factions, except maybe the Hungarians and the Byzantine. The catholic factions are not my strong point. Defeating them as a muslim faction is.

I thought I might have been the only one. I have a serious, and I mean serious, problem waging wars with Catholic Factions. I almost never get good results when battling with them. I am almost ashamed to admit that the auto-resolve button does a better job at battles then if I commanded the attack personally.

On the other hand, I am at the very least, adept at combat with the Muslim or Orthodox factions, with my best perfomances having happened while I have been playing the Turks.

[Deus ret.]

Turks and Eggies are indeed great when you play every battle yourself. Their superior mobility and firepower ensure a minimal casualty victory - along with some micromanagement. I also got the impression that generals level up somewhat more quickly than Catholic ones because many Muslim troops are assessed as inferior by the game (see below), meaning that the achievement is greater when winning with them. This leads to the next point....
Due tho this, in autocombat their troops are crap IMHO whereas it works quite good for Catholics.* I suspect that missile capability isn't counted in AI combat balancing / autoresolve (at least that's the case in RTW), so their numerous missile and hybrid troops suffer. Since I've come to enjoy autoresolve more than once in a while, embarking on a campaign as Turks or Eggies no longer is a realistic option for me, notwithstanding the fun of playing them.

*edit: partly for the Byz as well, often purely horse-archer armies were easily defeated by byz inf in autoresolve whereas they would have been shot to pieces had I commanded the battle myself.

[Martok]

I myself prefer the Eggies over the Turks. Part of that is because I start in possession of the Holy Land, but another big part is that Egyptian armies are (at least in my opinion) a little more balanced that the Turks'. Eggies get a nice mix of most unit types: infantry, missles, light & medium cavarly, etc. The Turks, on the other hand, seem to be composed of mostly mounted missile units early on, and then switch to all-Janissary armies in the mid-to-late game. I know that's oversimplifying things somewhat, but I've never quite been able to rid myself of the image of Turks attacking me with hordes of horse archers. ~:rolleyes:

[caravel]

Well the Turks start off so close to the holy land that it's no problem to just rush it and wipe out the Egyptians in the first 20 - 30 years. I'm not sure about the Egyptians armies being better balanced. The Egyptians have only Nubian Spearmen, Nizari and Saharan cavalry on the Turks who have many types of hybrids, early access to AHC, Turcoman Horse as well as the usual Ghazis, Ghulams, Saracens,Camels etc. I don't rate the Egyptians Mamluk cavalry or horse archers too highly either. To be honest the only unique thing I like about the Egyptians is Faris.

Good points about the autocalc as well. It is definitely a good idea not to autocalc when playing as the Turks or any Muslim faction for that matter.

[Deus ret.]

Yeah, it's insane. Of course it's still possible to win battles by autocalcing, it's just a sheer waste of men (except if you take Saracens, they seem to work quite well). Since I enjoy the strategic aspect of the game very much, there is more than one battle once in a while that I just don't want to fight.
Basically it's a shame. When I played the Super Mod and soon had conquered Constantinople with the Hospitallers in Late, the Turks relentlessly attacked with armies that were quite respectable in terms of size as well as quality - I'd have had a hell of a time defeating them all but despite clear numerical superiority they just couldn't get past those order spears and knights in autocalc :dizzy2: I admit that it's not the most chivalrous way to survive a campaign; then again, compared to RTW autocalc is actually good for something at least.

....but this is drifting too far off-topic. For my part I wouldn't recommend Muslim factions to beginners for the above reason and because of the necessary micromanagement in battle which can become quite tedious as armies grow. Their strategic position isn't too enviable, either (except for the Eggies since the Almos rarely attack; Turks face a difficult fight against both Eggies and Byz (and the horde) and Almos tend to get sandwiched between Spainards and Eggies, with the occasional amphibious assault resp. sea blockade by Italians or similar), they being the prime targets for crusades even less.
Overall, I go along with Martok's recommendations; each of these is a fun and not-too-hard faction to play with.

[Tony Furze]

Well it s certainly a colourful campaign playing as the Turks-never a dull moment.

I find Lesser Armenia one of the worst terrains to fight in- a combination of hills large squares of land edged by trees and bushes. Very confusing to get the tactics right.

However while I dreaded the battle against the Byz there (the GA made Lesser Armenia one of the goals) I brought along some mercs:Rus spearmen, Druzhina cav and Druzhina foot.

The incredible happened-the Byz inf squared up tp the Druz cav, took one look, turned went back to the main army, told them and the whole lot disappeared without further battle.

What is it about the Dhruz????

Im not too hap with the Turcoman horse, maybe you ll help me here Chez, they seem to waste their time running around usually in the opposite direction to the enemy. Not handling them too well, I suspect. The Armenian Heavies are fantastic.

[caravel]

Im not too hap with the Turcoman horse, maybe you ll help me here Chez, they seem to waste their time running around usually in the opposite direction to the enemy. Not handling them too well, I suspect. The Armenian Heavies are fantastic.

The usual story with HA's when you're not used to them. You will have to micromanage them yourself. Don't rely on the skirmish at all. It is best to pull them away, preferably to high ground, and shoot volleys at the enemy as they approach then pull back again. The skirmish facility I only find useful for foot archers.