Knives in schools

[rory_20_uk]

I was reading this (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/5056112.stm) article concerning a 15 year old who was expelled for carrying a knife has been reistated by by an independent appeals panel.

Leaving aside the question of how to stop children carrying weaponry and the insanity of this ruling, I ask this:

Assuming that a 14/15 year old is caught with a knife at school. They are legally entitled to education until 16. So then where can they receive this education?

~:smoking:

[English assassin]

Pupil Referral Unit.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Home, they can still sit exams in their school. I was home schooled and now I'm at one of the best universities in the country and heading for a minimum 2.1.

[rory_20_uk]

I may be making assumptions here, but I'd imagine that the average student who takes a knife to school isn't going to get a great education, and will basically just be "dropping out" a few years ahead of schedule.

Then there is an increased linklihood of an underclass of children who have not even been exposed to the rudiments of schooling. What then?

~:smoking:

[yesdachi]

Kind of a different situation but slightly on topic. Where I went to school it was very common for a person to have a pocket knife and I remember a semester before my high school made it against the rules to have a knife in school one of the cooler teachers asked the students about this and we had a fun discussion ending with everyone that had a knife on them, admitting it. At least a full 1/3rd of the class had one (including myself, it was a nice little one with scissors built in) and the rest of the class didn’t care and weren’t scared of being attacked. The teacher also had a small pocket knife.

It is kind of weird how rules like this apply differently to different people in different places.

[rory_20_uk]

Might this be down to the type of knife that is bieng carried?

There are now an increasing number of fatal stabbings. I admit one can be killed with a swiss army knife, but it'd be tough. The knives that are sometimes carried over here are a lot longer and a lot sharper.

Possibly in the USA of a kid wants to go Loco they can get their hands on an armalite where as here it's the carving knife.

~:smoking:

[doc_bean]

People carried knives in my elementary school.

Probably not the best idea to have everyone armed, or anyone armed, in a school, but unless he actually did something with it (or could be shown to be planning to) than I don't think he should be punished to harshly.

[InsaneApache]

People carried knives in my elementary school.

Probably not the best idea to have everyone armed, or anyone armed, in a school, but unless he actually did something with it (or could be shown to be planning to) than I don't think he should be punished to harshly.

Sorry but I have to disagree. There have been around half a dozen fatal stabbings in the UK these last two weeks or so, anyone caught carrying a knife should expect to recieve a lenthy gaol sentence. There again New Labour would probably put them into an 'open' prison so they could just walk to the bus stop and go home...:sweatdrop:

[scooter_the_shooter]

I carry a knife all the time out of school. It's so much of a habit that I've brought it to school a few times. This has happened to other people in my school also so they made a rule. If you have a blade turn it in when you get to school and you can come get it after. If you don't turn it in you are expelled, Seems fair to me.

[Duke Malcolm]

Assuming that a 14/15 year old is caught with a knife at school. They are legally entitled to education until 16. So then where can they receive this education?

The Bad Boys' School...


I carry a knife all the time out of school. It's so much of a habit that I've brought it to school a few times. This has happened to other people in my school also so they made a rule. If you have a blade turn it in when you get to school and you can come get it after. If you don't turn it in you are expelled, Seems fair to me.
This sort of thing would only encourage the carrying of knives in school. I wonder what would happen if you went in wearing a sword...

[Alexanderofmacedon]

What if the knife stabbed him foot. Ouch.

[scooter_the_shooter]

The Bad Boys' School...


This sort of thing would only encourage the carrying of knives in school. I wonder what would happen if you went in wearing a sword...


I fail to see the problem with having a small knife in school. And most people don't do it cause if you don't turn it in as soon as you get off the bus they take ya' away in handcuffs.

[Big King Sanctaphrax]

I carry a small penknife with me at all times, and I used to take it into school with me as well. It doesn't lock, so there's no way I'd be able to attack anyone with it without there being a very good chance I'd cut off my own fingers-I just use it to open letters, sharpen pencils, that sort of thing. So, I think being expelled for merely carrying 'a knife' would be rather harsh. It conjunction with the 'violent conduct', however, it sounds reasonable.

The only hassle I ever had over my little knife, as I recall, was when a teacher asked me if I was carrying it for protection. I answered in the negative, and I heard nothing more about it.

[Duke of Gloucester]

It is very unlikely he was excluded just for carrying a knife. When he was found guilty of violent conduct, he would have been warned. The knife thing would have been the last straw. It is hard for us to judge whether the panel should have re-instated him, because we don't know the details. Was it a big knife or just a pen-knife like BKS's. Carrying knives should be against the rule for school, but should not mean an automatic permanent exclusion. In my view the violent conduct is more serious than carrying a knife, but again the exact circumstances make a difference. Remember, we are told he was found in possession of the knife, so it does not sound as though he threatened anyone with it. However, appeal panels are needed because not all head teachers act reasonably. Whether the panel were correct in this case depends, as I said, on the circumstances.

Of course, all the MP and TB are doing is making themselves look good by expressing outrage on a topical issue. A more mature and rational approach is needed.

[rory_20_uk]

As rules need to be for all, and knives are allowed by all there is then the problem that dangerous people will end up with them.

Then what? The teacher asks: "is that knife for self defence". "Yup". "Give me the knife" "No"... What then? Call the police? Get the knife off them?

Banning all knives is the safest thing to do in schools. There are other ways of sharpening pencils and opening letters that cause a lot less headache.

~:smoking:

[Red Peasant]

Ahh, knife crime is the crime du jour for our silly media.

Some facts:
Knife murders are almost at the same level as in 1995, slightly less in fact.
Over the decade there has been on average 4.5 per week. Which surprised me, because surely the media should be in outrage every other day at least, all year round!
This level had been no different recently.

Source: BCS (British Crime Survey)

One feels for the poor victims, but we should not get things out of proportion.

[IrishArmenian]

I will stay out of this conversation after I say this: give them proper training with the knife. Only then will they realisze what it can do. Here, kids at the age of 12 are to be armed with firearms. No one shoots another guy because we are all in this together, because we fight a common enemy. I don't see why American, British, what-have-you, children cannot get it through their heads that trying to kill in cold blood is just plain wrong. Teach your children this, Britian and U.S.! Yes you! I carried a Dragunov SVD (sniper rifle) with me starting when I was twelve, not to mention a kukrhi, and I still carry thse things around me. I guess it is just a different culutre with you.

[rory_20_uk]

We have no "common enemy". Nothing unites a country than feeling threatened by an outside force. We have nothing like that.

4.5 deaths a week from stabbings. Merely the fact that it's been going on for a decade is not reason to accept it.

And yes there are probably lots of other causes of deaths that are basically ignored. I would rather something constructive was done, rather than nothing then a kneejerk reaction from the government when the media draws attention to this fact (e.g. assaults on NHS workers)

~:smoking:

[Red Peasant]

We have no "common enemy". Nothing unites a country than feeling threatened by an outside force. We have nothing like that.

4.5 deaths a week from stabbings. Merely the fact that it's been going on for a decade is not reason to accept it.

And yes there are probably lots of other causes of deaths that are basically ignored. I would rather something constructive was done, rather than nothing then a kneejerk reaction from the government when the media draws attention to this fact (e.g. assaults on NHS workers)

~:smoking:

I never said that I accepted it, just trying to put things into perspective and deflate the bubble of hype surrounding the supposed 'wave' of terror that is currently threatening to sink this country beneath the waves. If one believes the media and the doom-mongers that is ~;)

FYI, I believe that much stronger action should be taken against those carrying knives in public.

[rory_20_uk]

Yeah, there has been for the last 300 years (probably a lot longer) something that is going to destroy us or subvert us.

The media has to focus on one new sensationalist topic only to loose interest after a month or so as that's what sells papers. Yes they are self serving, but as long as the information is accurate at least something gets done on some issues!

I hope you didn't think I thought or was trying to imply that you thought that this was OK. :shakehands:

~:smoking:

[Crazed Rabbit]

I find the decision to reinstate him odd, but I don't know all the facts.

And the media feeds off of sensationalism. Who would buy a paper saying "people stabbed at the same level as before"?

IrishArmenian, what country are you from? Armenia? The education about guns used to be near that in the USA, but has dropped off in the last 50 years. More urban, and more fearful of guns.

Crazed Rabbit

[Sensei Warrior]

Leaving aside the question of how to stop children carrying weaponry and the insanity of this ruling, I ask this:

Assuming that a 14/15 year old is caught with a knife at school. They are legally entitled to education until 16. So then where can they receive this education?


To try and answer your question:

Is there home schooling?

Is there schools for the delinquent? Over here we have schools for kids that commit crimes, they are kind of like prison, only with teachers. Lot's more Security and the etc. Although they are probably the worst schools in the system.

I refrain from comment on what the kid actually got kicked out for.

[Ronin]

I carry a knife all the time out of school. It's so much of a habit that I've brought it to school a few times. This has happened to other people in my school also so they made a rule. If you have a blade turn it in when you get to school and you can come get it after. If you don't turn it in you are expelled, Seems fair to me.

seems like a reasonable solution

[IrishArmenian]

IrishArmenian, what country are you from? Armenia? The education about guns used to be near that in the USA, but has dropped off in the last 50 years. More urban, and more fearful of guns.
Crazed Rabbit
Yes, and presently I am still here. That is a shame. Only with knowledge will people handle weapons with care. Not safely, you cannot handle a weapon safely, it is an oximoron.

[scooter_the_shooter]

Yes, and presently I am still here. That is a shame. Only with knowledge will people handle weapons with care. Not safely, you cannot handle a weapon safely, it is an oximoron.



Yes you can.


Don't point it at any one.

keep your finger off the trigger till' ready to shoot.

Look what's beyond you target.

Open the action when ever you pick it up, to be sure it is unloaded.


How can you mess that up?

[English assassin]

Sorry Ceasar IA is right. You can handle a gun MORE safely, but you cannot handle it safely. The only way to handle a gun with 100% safety is to be completely out of range. A gun is an inherently dangerous object.

Or to be exact a gun and a person are an inherently dangerous pairing. Repeat after me: human error happens.

[rory_20_uk]

Sorry Ceasar IA is right. You can handle a gun MORE safely, but you cannot handle it safely. The only way to handle a gun with 100% safety is to be completely out of range. A gun is an inherently dangerous object.

Or to be exact a gun and a person are an inherently dangerous pairing. Repeat after me: human error happens.

Do you hate America? Are you anti freedom? Are you a Commie?

~:smoking:

[IrishArmenian]

Yes you can.
Don't point it at any one.
keep your finger off the trigger till' ready to shoot.
Look what's beyond you target.
Open the action when ever you pick it up, to be sure it is unloaded.
How can you mess that up?
You can purposefully mess it up. I carry two loaded weapons with me, because an unloaded weapon is not much use to me.
Now, what you posted are ways to handle a gun with care, or more safely. There is no clear cut safety with weapons, which is why they are used to do harm as opposed to cooking/cleaning/ other household tasks.

[Goofball]

Do you hate America? Are you anti freedom? Are you a Commie?

~:smoking:

He's probably gay too...

[InsaneApache]

He's probably gay too...

And a Satanist.

[English assassin]

I thought all this was taken as read, gents? Do I have to sig it? One more time: I hate America, and I love Satan.