"obi wan has trained you well"

[nokhor]

one of the most quoted lines of star wars is "obi wan has trained you well" in reference to luke skywalker, but did he, did he really?

obi wan and luke meet when obi wan rescues luke from the sand people. that very evening, obi wan begins instructing luke on the mysteries of the force. it dawns on luke that self same evening that his family is in danger, and luke and ben travel to find them the next morning. upon seeing his dead family, luke decides there is nothing left there for him and they travel to the spaceport and travel to alderaan. on the way to alderaan, they meet up with the death star and obi wan is killed. we're talking about like 2 days here from when they first meet up to when ben is killed.

the day after luke meets ben, they aboard the falcon. the big unknown here is the length of hyperspace travel. the time it takes to travel from tatooine to alderaan. but it can't have been too long a trip.

evidence:

1) the crew of the falcon is only 2 people so i doubt hyeprspace travel needs a huge logistical support system.
2)they have to leave tatooine in a hurry so i doubt they had time to stock up on supplies.
3) they're all wearing the same damn clothes when they meet up with death star and i saw no laundry machines on the falcon.
4) there's no dialogue of "it's been a boring couple of months but we should finally be docking in alderaan in a couple of hours"

conclusion: all the evidence leads one to conclude that the trip to alderaan took at most hours or at the very latest a couple of weeks at most. so how in the heck could obi wan have trained luke well when he spent only a little bit of time with him.

[Snowhobbit]

Luke was a quick study ;)
And since he had such great potential he advanced quickly, for example that block trick he uses aboard the Falcon. :2thumbsup:

[Papewaio]

It helps when your mentor can still teach you in the following circumstances:

a) Your mentor is dead dave dead.
b) Even on the verge of a coma you can still receive and then later act on instructions from him.
c) That even without lighting your mentor could provide a decent enough blue glow to help you read.

[Gregoshi]

It was always my impression that Darth Vader was taking an educated guess when he credited Obi-wan for Luke's training. Vader didn't know about Yoda's involvement, but he was able to make an association between Obi-wan and Luke. Therefore Obi-wan must have been Luke's trainer.

[Reverend Joe]

What happens to M. Kenobi when the Big Black Dildo kills him, anyway? I mean, did he just decide not to exist anymore, or what? That series freaks me out so much.

[Zalmoxis]

That is a disturbing expression Zorba. Not bad, just disturbing.

[Avicenna]

He became a spirit that can pop out, kind of like an annoying stalking ghost. In the newest Episode, the last thing Yoda says to Kenobi is that his master has learned the secret immortality: that.

[Peasant Phill]

I never understood the fight between Kenobi and Vader. They fight and all of a sudden Kenobi decides to stop fighting. He doesn't even try to block Vaders attack he just stands there looking at Luke. IMO one of the worst fighting scenes ever.

[English assassin]

I never understood the fight between Kenobi and Vader. They fight and all of a sudden Kenobi decides to stop fighting. He doesn't even try to block Vaders attack he just stands there looking at Luke. IMO one of the worst fighting scenes ever.


This is overlooking the main objection to the fight, that Alec Guinness fights like an old woman. In fact, that is grossly insulting to old women, my granny could have kicked his jedi ass, and still have had time to make a really nice steak and kidney pie.

[matteus the inbred]

turns out Obi-Wan and Yoda were training two Jedi...

http://www.atomfilms.com/af/content/pink5

[doc_bean]

nah, they had even more lined up (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26B-Ia0Dvu0&search=star%20wars%20kid)

[matteus the inbred]

heheh, that's the kid who got internationally humiliated isn't it? quality.

although it's probably done the rounds a fair bit by now, this is still pretty funny too.
http://www.atomfilms.com/af/content/gangsta_rap_se

Incidentally, I think Gregoshi's right, Vader was guessing that Luke must have been trained by Obi Wan over a longer period than was actually the case, and didn't know about Yoda at that time.

[Avicenna]

Obi-Wan wanted to die so that Luke would go, otherwise Luke would run up and die as well and the rebellion is going to die because the Death Star wins and then the little kiddies cry, and no more sequel. Hence, Obi-Wan puts his life on the line.

[AwesomeArcher]

If any of you have read the Harry Potter series, DONT READ IF YOU HAVENT READ THE BOOK the same thing happens. Dumbledore sacrifices himself for no apparent reason. He was the most powerful wizard, i am sure he could have fought off a teenager and then escaped.

Edit:Sorry Tiberius

[Avicenna]

AA!! Use spoiler tags for something like that! Anyway, Dumbledore was different, he was a teacher, as opposed to someone raised from childhood to be the ultimate warrior of justice.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Although (IIRC) Luke was being trained by Yoda at the time of the quote, Vader was not aware of Yoda's existance. He probably figured the little green guy bought it in Order 66 (in Episode 3).

While Yoda did fight the Emperor in a duel, remember that Palpatine was not sure of Yoda's fate. Considering that for the next twenty years there was not a whisper of rebellion coming from Yoda, the Emperor/Vader figured that Yoda was long gone, hence believing that Kenobi was the only remaining old Jedi.

[yesdachi]

It is my understanding that if he were to have died without being “prepared”, which he would have against vader (or the big black dildo), his sprit would have been lost and he wouldn’t have been able to save Luke’s rumb every other time he got in trouble.

Qui gon jin died without being “prepared” by Maul and his sprit was lost.

[Dutch_guy]

It is my understanding that if he were to have died without being “prepared”, which he would have against vader (or the big black dildo), his sprit would have been lost and he wouldn’t have been able to save Luke’s rumb every other time he got in trouble.

Qui gon jin died without being “prepared” by Maul and his sprit was lost.

Care to expand a bit on the ''prepared'' part ? I don't quite understand it.

I always though Obi-wan lost against vader on purpose, while luke was watching. Probably to make him not lose track of things, and seek some sort of revenge.

:balloon2:

[yesdachi]

Care to expand a bit on the ''prepared'' part ? I don't quite understand it.

I always though Obi-wan lost against vader on purpose, while luke was watching. Probably to make him not lose track of things, and seek some sort of revenge.

:balloon2:
I am sure I read it in a few places but I don’t remember where, it had to have been one of the expanded universe books, maybe even one of the kyle katarn books, that made reference to being prepared or at piece when you die in order to not be lost. But who knows what George was thinking, any explanation must have come after the movie was made and was the result of someone trying to make it make sense. Seems believable to me (at lease as believable as any of it ~D).

[Avicenna]

But Qui-Gon wasn't lost, otherwise how did he teach the technique to Yoda and miraculously talk in Episode II?

[Reverend Joe]

I am sure I read it in a few places but I don’t remember where, it had to have been one of the expanded universe books, maybe even one of the kyle katarn books, that made reference to being prepared or at piece when you die in order to not be lost. But who knows what George was thinking, any explanation must have come after the movie was made and was the result of someone trying to make it make sense. Seems believable to me (at lease as believable as any of it ~D).
Heh heh... ever seen "Robot Chicken"?

"If you strike me down, I will become more powerful th- wait, no, let me finish!"

*voom-SMACK*

:laugh4:

[Papewaio]

His disappearance certainly shocked Vader.

I doubt he did it so that Luke would seek revenge. If anything it was to plant the seed of doubt into Vaders mind. Make him release that he wasn't quite the master he was. His very doubts would make him question himself, his place and that of his Emperors...

[nokhor]

but mr. "oppurtunistic, i'll jump ship to whatever faction that appears to be winning" darth vader didn't have time to "prepare" like obi or liam neeson when the emperor sentenced vader to death by electrocution.

[ShadesPanther]

Vader did have quite along time to "prepare" He was dragged through the aship and had a talk with his son.

[Dutch_guy]

But Qui-Gon wasn't lost, otherwise how did he teach the technique to Yoda and miraculously talk in Episode II?

You know, I finally get why Qui gon started ''praying'' during the scne in which he and Maul were seperated by a laser wall in episode I. It finally dawned upon my after reading the last couple of posts that he was ''preparing'' for his comming death.

Wow.

:balloon2:

[matteus the inbred]

You know, I finally get why Qui gon started ''praying'' during the scne in which he and Maul were seperated by a laser wall in episode I. It finally dawned upon my after reading the last couple of posts that he was ''preparing'' for his comming death.

Wow.

interesting interpretation...I'd always assumed he was supposed to be in a short 'Jedi trance' or similar to allow him to recuperate faster or concentrate better, or psych himself up for rest of the fight...

[Dutch_guy]

interesting interpretation...I'd always assumed he was supposed to be in a short 'Jedi trance' or similar to allow him to recuperate faster or concentrate better, or psych himself up for rest of the fight...

That's how I interpretated it too, that is , before Yesdachi came with his ''preparation'' theory. And I find that makes a little more sense, since Qui gon may have had the idea he might die that day - which happened only moments after.

:balloon2:

[yesdachi]

It has been too long since I have seen the movies; I can’t remember half of the things I want to with any clarity. I have just decided that this weekend I will watch all 6 again! It is fathers day after all and I can do whatever I want (after I finish all the things my wife tells me to :wink:).

[Avicenna]

By then it might no longer be father's day, yesdachi.

Anyway, Qui-Gon like Vader had plenty of time before his death. Also, according to wikipedia, Quin-Gon was using battle meditation before his last fatal spar. Anyone who's played KotOR should know what battle meditation is.

[English assassin]

Hmm. no one else in this thread subscribes to the "Lucas just makes it all up as he goes along" theory then?

[Reverend Joe]

Hmm. no one else in this thread subscribes to the "Lucas just makes it all up as he goes along" theory then?
I do.

Actually, I kinda based it on the "stoned ramblings" theory. How the hell else do you come up with Chewbakka?

"Okay... so... we've got this big, hairy mutant ape guy... called chewy. It's short for Chewbakka. ...*makes wierd gurgling noise* That's how he talks. All the time."

[A.Saturnus]

Hmm. no one else in this thread subscribes to the "Lucas just makes it all up as he goes along" theory then?

Of course, but it matters into what it is later retconned.

I think Obi Wan lost intentionally because of several reasons. He didn't plan to meet Vader at all anticipated the possibility. He already knew that he couldn't win (just compare his fight with the one between Vader and Luke in Episode VI) and decided to go of with a trick to bring Vader a bit off balance.

Another question: how comes that Vader could be "prepared" at all, when he didn't even know the trick? Could it be that after seeing Obi Wan disappear like this that he somehow figured the thing out by himself? Or do you get it for free if you're the chosen one?

Edit: one thing I don't quite understand is how comes that so many people get all worked up about Jar-Jar Binks when they accepted Chewbakka, Ewokes and the gay robots?

[doc_bean]

Another question: how comes that Vader could be "prepared" at all, when he didn't even know the trick? Could it be that after seeing Obi Wan disappear like this that he somehow figured the thing out by himself? Or do you get it for free if you're the chosen one?

Vader became immortal too ? I really have to watch those movies again I guess....



Edit: one thing I don't quite understand is how comes that so many people get all worked up about Jar-Jar Binks when they accepted Chewbakka, Ewokes and the gay robots?

Jar Jar was 1000 times worse, easily. personally I never really minded the ewoks, Chewbakka just looked stupid, but wasn't all that annoying and the robots,w ell, they weren't in the movies as much as friggin' Jar-Jar.

But the Jar-Jar hate is wasted, all hate should be directed towards teenage Anakin, a far worse character by far. :wall:

[nokhor]

Edit: one thing I don't quite understand is how comes that so many people get all worked up about Jar-Jar Binks when they accepted Chewbakka, Ewokes and the gay robots?

amen brother, you are preaching to the faithfull. a similar thing is when people complain of the names in the prequels like qwi gonn jinn and jar jar as if obi wan kenobi or c3po were mesmerizing names.

[GeneralHankerchief]

amen brother, you are preaching to the faithfull. a similar thing is when people complain of the names in the prequels like qwi gonn jinn and jar jar as if obi wan kenobi or c3po were mesmerizing names.

Because all the names were based off of Obi-Wan Kenobi. I think the SW fans got tired of people having a hyphenated weird-sounding first name along with the last name.

Also, Jar Jar didn't kick Imperial butt. Chewbacca did.

[yesdachi]

Jar Jar is the lamest character ever in Star Wars.

[Byzantine Mercenary]

if they had just killed jar jar the emperor woulda never got into power!

[Papewaio]

Hmm. no one else in this thread subscribes to the "Lucas just makes it all up as he goes along" theory then?

Given that the other options would be:

"Gawd appeared before Lucas and said maketh this story..."

"I used a very powerful telescope and focused it on a galaxy far far away, due to the distance it was a long long time ago. I then transcribed the events that I saw..."

I think I will go with the one that he is just a mortal author who makes it up as he goes along...

[AntiochusIII]

"I used a very powerful telescope and focused it on a galaxy far far away, due to the distance it was a long long time ago. I then transcribed the events that I saw..."Wait, it's not THAT!?

NOOooOOOOoooooooooOOO!!!!1one!!111! [/Lukescream]

[nokhor]

Also, Jar Jar didn't kick Imperial butt. Chewbacca did.

i heartily disagree that chewbacca at anytime and anyplace in the movies ever kicked butt. all he ever did was whine and he certainly looked tough, but he was nothing more than c3po in a gorilla suit.

[A.Saturnus]

Vader became immortal too ? I really have to watch those movies again I guess....

Yep, just watch the last sceen of Episode VII. The newest version of the film even has Hayden Christensen as Anakin in it.




Jar Jar was 1000 times worse, easily. personally I never really minded the ewoks, Chewbakka just looked stupid, but wasn't all that annoying and the robots,w ell, they weren't in the movies as much as friggin' Jar-Jar.

But the Jar-Jar hate is wasted, all hate should be directed towards teenage Anakin, a far worse character by far. :wall:

The robots have far more screen time then Jar Jar. They even have several sceens of their own and they appear in every episode. Jar Jar hardly appears after Episode I at all.
And for the teenage Anakin, well he was designed to be an ass.

[AwesomeArcher]

Episode VI you probably mean. Yea that was a nice touch when they redid the original three movies.

[yesdachi]

It has been too long since I have seen the movies; I can’t remember half of the things I want to with any clarity. I have just decided that this weekend I will watch all 6 again! It is fathers day after all and I can do whatever I want (after I finish all the things my wife tells me to :wink:).
Alright, Fathers day weekend has come and gone and I am only thru the first 3 (I, II & III) but I really only need to watch the last 5 minutes of the III in order to answer my question about if you need to be “prepared” before you die if you want to go on as a spirit. As Yoda and ob1 are planning to go into hiding, Yoda tells ob1 that he needs to do some additional training while on tat. And Yoda says “and old friend has learned a path to immortality” speaking of qui gon.

I’m not sure how long it took qui gon to figure it out but apparently by III he knows it and teaches it to Yoda who teaches it to ob1, who is apparently ready to jump to the sprit world when he lets vader kill him in IV. I seems the only “prepared” they need to know is the knowledge of the ability or they have to figure it out like qui gon.

[lancelot]

i heartily disagree that chewbacca at anytime and anyplace in the movies ever kicked butt.

Not at all...in ep 4 he smacks a stromtrooper so hard it knocked him out, if not killed him...with one swing! In ep 5 he shoots a few troopers as he does in ep6...granted most other characters do as much if not more but there you go...:2thumbsup:

[Papewaio]

Yep, just watch the last sceen of Episode VII. The newest version of the film even has Hayden Christensen as Anakin in it.


Epidsode VI, in the orginal ones it was the guy who you see when Vadars face mask was removed... so at least in the orginal series it appeared to be something all Jedi could do, and that if you had a close enough relationship with them you could see them...

[nokhor]

Not at all...in ep 4 he smacks a stromtrooper so hard it knocked him out, if not killed him...with one swing! In ep 5 he shoots a few troopers as he does in ep6...granted most other characters do as much if not more but there you go...:2thumbsup:

let's compare furball to r2 eh? now there's the real hero in star wars in my opinion. the original star wars might have well been subtitled "the chase of r2" as the main plot revolves around the imperials trying to get that pesky little droid. it's r2 that holds the secret plans of the death star and who decides to risk his little self to get in the escape pod and leave before the stormtroopers can get the plans. what's his reward? , c3po whining all movie long, and luke wanting to wipe his memory clean.

r2 gets luke going with the quest to save the princess, and by running away forces luke to meet ob1. it's r2 that gets the hyperdrive fixed when its broken, he finds out that the princess is on the death star, he disables the tractor beam so they can fly the falcon out of there, and he saves them from the trash compactor. what's his reward? they send him on a suicide mission with boy wonder luke to blow up the death star where r2 gets shot in the head. what's his reward? they promise him a new coat of paint or some such while luke get's the medal. explain that to me.

in empire strikes back, luke after witnessing the defeat at hoth, becomes a traitor and deserts to go hide out in the swamps, but loyal r2 still hangs in there for his friend only to be manhandled by a green puppet. it's r2 that brings luke back to the real world by beeping out 'hey luke buddy, our x-wing is sinkin here' which convinces luke that he'd rather go die fighting the empire than be stuck in that godforsaken swamp forever.

in return of the jedi, its r2 that gives luke the lightsaber on jabba's barge allowing the rest to escape.

in the first new ones, it's r2 that gets, the qeens' ship repaired so they can escape and she just says a few trite words of thanks even though r2 just witnessed his entire family being shot off by the blockaders.

in the second new one, it's r2 that gets the two lovers back to reality by shutting off that rube goldberg/foundry playground they were running around in.

so chewie beating up a poor innocent stormtrooper that was just doing his job pales in comaparison.

[Papewaio]

R2 is a cross between a plot device, knowing sage and deus ex machina (I'm not sure if it was an on purpose pun by George Lucas).

[Reverend Joe]

R2 is a cross between a plot device, knowing sage and deus ex machina (I'm not sure if it was an on purpose pun by George Lucas).
Actually, I always thought of him as a whiny trash can. With wheels. Which makes him even more annoying.

[lars573]

I am sure I read it in a few places but I don’t remember where, it had to have been one of the expanded universe books, maybe even one of the kyle katarn books, that made reference to being prepared or at piece when you die in order to not be lost. But who knows what George was thinking, any explanation must have come after the movie was made and was the result of someone trying to make it make sense. Seems believable to me (at lease as believable as any of it ~D).
Vader chopping Kenobi's old wrinkly ass in half at the waist was too violent or something. So they had him vanish into thin air. Yes that's right Vader cut Obi-wan in half originally. The DVD box sets bonus materials have the original version of the scene.