View Full Version : Swedish traditions offensive to...
Yes, you guessed right. Muslims.
At least that is what our ombudsman of dicrimination says when he criticizes schools for letting the children have the school finishing in church and sing "Blomstertid nu kommer", a psalm about summer. Oh how inhumane of us Swedes, wanting to keep our traditions. I know most muslims here are not offended by this but well, you know political correctness. In many schools singing the swedish national anthem is allready forbidden, and now some schools stop this beautiful tradition. The message is simple: We shall adapt to the muslims, not they to us. I am getting so tired of this and I know it's not allways the muslims fault, it's our multiculture-supportive politicians that hate everything what Swedish culture stands for. What shall we remove next? Midsummer celebratings? Christmas? Lucia? :inquisitive:
http://www.aftonbladet.se/vss/nyheter/story/0,2789,841952,00.html
The link is in swedish I'm afraid, but the title says: "God banned from school endings"
Is this kind of things happening in your countries too?
No, Muslims here number a few few hundred. Fortunately the PC crowd didn't get a foothold ... yet.
As for the PC crowd itself, I've met a few ... hated them. I mean, I'm all for not insulting other cultures, but at least let them tell me what they find offensive, not some nut who believes he is doing the right thing.
Since Musilms aren't complaining, why change it for them? :dizzy2:
I swear, some people ...
Spetulhu
06-15-2006, 10:18
The sooner we get religion out of school the better. If some PC wacko can pull it off I'm all for it even if his reasons are wrong.
Hehe, what a dutch thing to do :laugh4:
Could be worse, our queen 'respected' that an imam wouldn't shake her hand, which we consider a sign of great disrespect. She wants us to call her majesty though, etiquette thing, royal family is very strict with that. Of course she comes from a long line of cowards and collaboraters, her mother sending 'thank god the assasination attempt failed' telegrams to Hitler, and the minute he attacked us they fled to england. And to make it even more fun, her husband was a member of the dutch social nationalistic movement. So flexible :laugh4:
x-dANGEr
06-15-2006, 11:21
Different cultures are everywhere, and the only way to love through them is to respect other's beliefs and thoughts, as long as they don't attack yours. For instance, I'm a muslim, and no I have nothing against pupils graduating in the church (Even though I feel it's strange, but since this is your belief, and your country, I have nothing to do but off my respect to it). But the song, does it have any words that insult 'any' other religion?
Narayanese
06-15-2006, 11:33
compulsary churchgoing...
I hate that tradition (not many schools adhere to it, luckily), I hope the government bans it.
What shall we remove next? Midsummer celebratings? Christmas? Lucia?None of those are religious (actually there's a religious variant of christmas too, on 25 Dec, but I think only a few elderly celebrate it, so I assume you mean the standard 24 Dec christmas with present-giving, Disney-film-watching, etc), so they have nothing to do with psalmsinging and churchgoing.
Leet Eriksson
06-15-2006, 12:10
the PC crowd should just shut up.
Different cultures are everywhere, and the only way to love through them is to respect other's beliefs and thoughts, as long as they don't attack yours. For instance, I'm a muslim, and no I have nothing against pupils graduating in the church (Even though I feel it's strange, but since this is your belief, and your country, I have nothing to do but off my respect to it). But the song, does it have any words that insult 'any' other religion?
Exactly. Most of the muslims in Sweden says the same. I mean, if I had moved to a muslim country I wouldn't have complained if we had school ending in a mosqé. "When in Rome, do as the Romans do".
The psalm included the word "God" it the second verse. That was the source of dislike and critiqe.
Narayanese: I am not religious, but I like many of our customs. Only a small small number of muslims are really offended by this and yet some people want to abolish it allthough the majority wants it as it is. Quite non-democratic to allways see to the minorities don't you think. I am offended by DO:s stupid decision, but I don't see anyone care about what I think...
Bulawayo
06-15-2006, 12:23
I am offended by DO:s stupid decision, but I don't see anyone care about what I think...
Your beloved party does, no? SD that is.
Article is too hard too read for me, did some muslims actually complain or is was it the usual bulldozer squad?
Article is too hard too read for me, did some muslims actually complain or is was it the usual bulldozer squad?
I havn't heard any complaining from muslims. But our schoolminister is muslim so I am not sure. They are all leftists anyway...
Bulawayo: Why do you say so?? :no: You think I am racsist too just because I value swedish customs and traditions?
You guys shall se the response on swedish discussion boards. Allmost everyone think this is wrong. Yet the politicians never cease to amaze us.
Bulawayo: Why do you say so?? :no: You think I am racsist too just because I value swedish customs and traditions?
Isn't it typical huh. I guess celebrating in a church sins against two of the pillars of the one and only true faith, the multiculture(may god help us all)
1) thou shalt not value your own traditions for we are all sinners
2) OLOL CHRISTIANS SUCK
x-dANGEr
06-15-2006, 12:52
Exactly. Most of the muslims in Sweden says the same. I mean, if I had moved to a muslim country I wouldn't have complained if we had school ending in a mosqé. "When in Rome, do as the Romans do".
The psalm included the word "God" it the second verse. That was the source of dislike and critiqe.
Narayanese: I am not religious, but I like many of our customs. Only a small small number of muslims are really offended by this and yet some people want to abolish it allthough the majority wants it as it is. Quite non-democratic to allways see to the minorities don't you think. I am offended by DO:s stupid decision, but I don't see anyone care about what I think...
Do muslims have to sing the song which apparently opposes their beliefs?
rory_20_uk
06-15-2006, 12:54
I don't know, but they certainly don't have to live in Sweden.
~:smoking:
x-dANGEr
06-15-2006, 13:08
Good point, but that isn't the way things are going on in the world nowadays. Everyone is trying to achieve the concept: No racism, and equal treatment, wherever you are, and one of a human's rights is freedom of religion. So, if a country would decline that (By making someone oppose his own religion through a must-read song), I think it would be against the Human rights, and would get a lot of pressure from the foundation of humans' rights.
InsaneApache
06-15-2006, 13:24
Relgion, all of them have no place in schools. Schools are places of learning. If you want religion, then attend the local church/temple/mosque/pyramid/temple/stone circle, what takes your fancy. :idea2:
Ja'chyra
06-15-2006, 13:42
Relgion, all of them have no place in schools. Schools are places of learning. If you want religion, then attend the local church/temple/mosque/pyramid/temple/stone circle, what takes your fancy. :idea2:
Normally I'd agree, but there is also the view that tradition is simply that, a tradition, and shouldn't be changed simply because a few don't like it.
x-dANGEr
Good point, but that isn't the way things are going on in the world nowadays. Everyone is trying to achieve the concept: No racism, and equal treatment, wherever you are, and one of a human's rights is freedom of religion. So, if a country would decline that (By making someone oppose his own religion through a must-read song), I think it would be against the Human rights, and would get a lot of pressure from the foundation of humans' rights
It may well be against what some people would term human rights but I don't believe it is, what actually happens if people refuse to sing along? Do they go to jail, are they punished? I seriously doubt it. In the end some poeple may say that they don't want to sing or attend, explain their reasons and that will be that. Should the vast majority of people change their traditions to accomodate a small minority? In some cases yes, in this case no. I still believe that the emphasis to integrate is on the immigrant, not all of the responsibility but definately the majority of it.
(By making someone oppose his own religion through a must-read song)
So far noone ever cared whether I open my mouth while everybody else is singing or not.
I´m a christian myself, I am protestant, I don´t like the catholic church much, but apart from it being usually very boring, I have nothing against going into a catholic church, I don´t see how that would affect my psyche or my beliefs in a bad way.
I agree with Faisal of course.:2thumbsup:
Yes, you guessed right. Muslims.
At least that is what our ombudsman of dicrimination says when he criticizes schools for letting the children have the school finishing in church and sing "Blomstertid nu kommer", a psalm about summer.
..........
http://www.aftonbladet.se/vss/nyheter/story/0,2789,841952,00.html
The link is in swedish I'm afraid, but the title says: "God banned from school endings"
Is this kind of things happening in your countries too?
So Muslim students have to finish their schooling in church as well?
x-dANGEr
06-15-2006, 14:39
Yes, that's my point. Which's why I asked the question:
Do muslims have to sing the song which apparently opposes their beliefs?
And I got no reply except for someone saying that if they don't like, they aren't forced to live in Sweden:
I don't know, but they certainly don't have to live in Sweden.
Of course they don't have to sing if they don't want to, nobody could enforce that.
Ironside
06-15-2006, 14:52
Do muslims have to sing the song which apparently opposes their beliefs?
Nope they don't have to, not more than the Swedish students. But I find it weird that they should oppose a song that celebrates the coming of the summer and in the second verse thanks God for it.
While it certainly feels like the purging of God from everything, the tradition certainly comes from when the church was merged with the state. But I do think that it should be up to the induvidual schools to decide.
Bulawayo
06-15-2006, 14:55
I havn't heard any complaining from muslims. But our schoolminister is muslim so I am not sure. They are all leftists anyway...
Bulawayo: Why do you say so?? :no: You think I am racsist too just because I value swedish customs and traditions?
You guys shall se the response on swedish discussion boards. Allmost everyone think this is wrong. Yet the politicians never cease to amaze us.
Sorry Radier, I didn't mean to be rude, more like a reaction to "nobody cares" when I indeed know that SD cares. Neither do I call you racist, but after all SD is your beloved party, and I don't call them racist. Damn, I have more racist friends from other continents than Swedish racist friends :dizzy2:
One more thing, Mr Ibrahim Baylan is Syrian, a christian arab and not muslim at all.
rory_20_uk
06-15-2006, 15:05
On the topic of countries that are NOT inclusive, I can think of a few... Funnily enough they are almost exclusively Muslim countries!
Perhaps one song is not as bad as a country that one can get locked up for saying that perhaps Islam isn't the best thing ever.
~:smoking:
Kralizec
06-15-2006, 15:07
Could be worse, our queen 'respected' that an imam wouldn't shake her hand, which we consider a sign of great disrespect. :
Wich was odd, since she didn't give orthodox rabbis the same courtesy a couple of decades back.
her mother sending 'thank god the assasination attempt failed' telegrams to Hitler
I take it you mean her grandmother, Wilhelmina? Even then it smells like BS.
I take it you mean her grandmother, Wilhelmina? Even then it smells like BS.
'Gelukstelegram hitler koninklijk huis' do da google ~:) (ya grandmother my bad)
Wich was odd, since she didn't give orthodox rabbis the same courtesy a couple of decades back.
Oh? I didn't know that. Makes it even more yummie.
doc_bean
06-15-2006, 15:39
I don't know, but they certainly don't have to live in Sweden.
~:smoking:
Neither did the Jews in Nazi Germany....
Do they actually HAVE to attend ? Can't they just skip school for a day ?
Besides, going to church isn't a sin for a muslim iirc, as long as they stay true to Allah in their heart, so there isn't really a problem here, is there ?
rory_20_uk
06-15-2006, 15:49
Neither did the Jews in Nazi Germany....
Very trite. So are you comparing the two, or just making larks? :inquisitive:
~:smoking:
doc_bean
06-15-2006, 16:03
Very trite. So are you comparing the two, or just making larks? :inquisitive:
~:smoking:
I just thought your comment stupid, in a 'they don't belong here' kind of way. If you are just talking about people offended by the tradition then I'd agree, but it seemed to be aimed at muslims in general.
rory_20_uk
06-15-2006, 16:17
Ah, so as you misunderstood my comment, you thought you'd post something really stupid. Clever... ~:rolleyes:
Any group that immigrates to a country should be aware of the traditions of said country. If they don't like them, then don't go there.
~:smoking:
http://www.aftonbladet.se/vss/nyheter/story/0,2789,841952,00.html
The article has nothing about muslims in it :inquisitive: .
According to the article a new rule is that the school end shall have no religious stuff in it(thank you for that, a couple of years too late). No muslims complaining or nothing nor do they have anything to do with it.
Do muslims have to sing the song which apparently opposes their beliefs?
No they don't.
I had several muslims in my class and they just had to show up in school after we had suffered in church for an hour.
doc_bean
06-15-2006, 16:30
Any group that immigrates to a country should be aware of the traditions of said country. If they don't like them, then don't go there.
Let's see what seems to be happening
1. Muslims move to sweden
2. Muslims go to church because they have to
3. "Wait, that's offensive !" says the PC crowd
4. Muslims go, uh, maybe, i don't care *shrug*
5. people on a message board complain about how Muslims are causing so much trouble in Europe and don't belong here in the first place
:wall:
Incongruous
06-15-2006, 16:34
Fair enough statement.
But then where would these people go for a better life?
The fact that a non-human entity can cause such hatred beteween humans has always astounded me.
rory_20_uk
06-15-2006, 16:39
Let's see what seems to be happening
1. Muslims move to sweden
2. Muslims go to church because they have to
3. "Wait, that's offensive !" says the PC crowd
4. Muslims go, uh, maybe, i don't care *shrug*
5. people on a message board complain about how Muslims are causing so much trouble in Europe and don't belong here in the first place
:wall:
That may well be the case.
But if the country states that newcomers fit in or leave then when whoever starts squealing about something bieng offensive they too can gently be informed that it's a big world out there, and if they don't like it where they are, perhaps they'd like it better elsewhere.
If people want to go to a country for "a better life" they then have to accept what is in that country. If that is not possible, then look for a better life elsewhere. If there isn't such a place, then they can do what the majority of people do inthe West and compromise.
If people aren't even capable of doing that I'd rather they went elsewhere. There are enough extremists here already.
~:smoking:
doc_bean
06-15-2006, 16:48
That may well be the case.
But if the country states that newcomers fit in or leave then when whoever starts squealing about something bieng offensive they too can gently be informed that it's a big world out there, and if they don't like it where they are, perhaps they'd like it better elsewhere.
If people want to go to a country for "a better life" they then have to accept what is in that country. If that is not possible, then look for a better life elsewhere. If there isn't such a place, then they can do what the majority of people do inthe West and compromise.
If people aren't even capable of doing that I'd rather they went elsewhere. There are enough extremists here already.
~:smoking:
These days it's mostly 2nd and 3d generation immigrants (or more) that we are talking about though. I think they should have something to say by then.
Besides, it's a democracy, you can complain if you want to, and you can vote for/support actions that will make a country closer to your ideals.
BTW has anyone else noticed how a lot of those extremists (well, terrorists) come from well integrated families, or even more bizarre, from non-muslim families ? I don't think terrorism has that much to do with Islam; before it was anarchism,; before that it was communism; before that it was republicanism and so on and so on. Some people will always find a reason to want to fight 'the establishment' and kill a bunch of innocent people along the way, all for the greater good.
BTW has anyone else noticed how a lot of those extremists (well, terrorists) come from well integrated families, or even more bizarre, from non-muslim families ?
Ya, that is why I tend to get a bit sad when the kneejerk-brigade begins about social exclusion and other stratospheric anomaly's.
L'Impresario
06-15-2006, 17:57
BTW has anyone else noticed how a lot of those extremists (well, terrorists) come from well integrated families, or even more bizarre, from non-muslim families ? I don't think terrorism has that much to do with Islam; before it was anarchism,; before that it was communism; before that it was republicanism and so on and so on. Some people will always find a reason to want to fight 'the establishment' and kill a bunch of innocent people along the way, all for the greater good.
In relevant literature, you can encounter them under the "born-again" muslims characterization, simply because they are a fruit of (post)modernity. Being severed from a well-defined territory that promotes a nationalistic identification, they abhor the islamism of the cold war and focus on a more individualistic take of religion, all the while blaiming the arabian governments and political islamist movements of having betrayed the faith and the people. So it's up to each person to take up the banner, and an imaginary community of internationalists is formed, one which lacks the cultural elements and circumstances that exist within the muslim nations that regard Islam as a part of their identity, whereas the "born-again" muslims project their spirituality as their defining component. This enforces "Other"-based distinctions but also manages to create a group which disregards nationalities.
I could have written much more but as I 've said there are many books about it, describing the whole phenomenon in details that I'm currently unable to provide.
'Jihad, trail of political islam' by Gilles Kepel would be a nice start, but sadly it says nothing about europe.
PanzerJaeger
06-15-2006, 20:32
But then where would these people go for a better life?
They could attempt to make their own countries better instead of ruining more of the world with their presence.
IrishArmenian
06-15-2006, 20:45
Do muslims have to sing the song which apparently opposes their beliefs?
I could not imagine MAKING someone sing. They can just not sing, is that such a big deal. Also, x-dANGER, correct me if I'm wrong, doesn't Allah mean God in Arabic? So basically, they are different names, but not names based on religeon, names based on language.
Devastatin Dave
06-15-2006, 20:56
Ya, that is why I tend to get a bit sad when the kneejerk-brigade begins about social exclusion and other stratospheric anomaly's.
This is what I gathered. I didn't see any "Muslim outrage". Leave the Muslims alone folks, its not there fault that those that think they're helping Muslims out are actually seperating them more from Western society. Usually I'll beat a mean drum about Muslim sensitivities, but on this issue its the self proclaimed sensitivity brigade I have a beef with. Sorry Muslims, you have morons doing your PR now.
Byzantine Prince
06-15-2006, 21:06
Mainstream hysteria, knee-jerk political hackery, misleading vividness... are all words that come to mind when I read this... "news". *cough*
So basically anything with any undertones that is considered mildly offensive to someone should be sensored? Riiiighht. How about protecting our right to say and do whatever the **** we want? The muslims don't have to sing anything, I think that's obvious, last time I checked Sweden was not an oppressed dictatorship. People that immigrate to another country don't have to assimilate with the traditions of that said country, they do however have to abide to its laws. Other than that every point is moot.
A.Saturnus
06-15-2006, 21:25
Any group that immigrates to a country should be aware of the traditions of said country. If they don't like them, then don't go there.
Strange, I've always thought when you want to live in a country where you're not forced to take part in religious celebrations, Sweden would be your best choice. It seems, I've been wrong :no:
When my school went for one of these church trips, I always refused to join in. Fortunately, German law made that possible.
If you want you silly traditions, fine, but don't force other people to take part in them.
rory_20_uk
06-15-2006, 21:51
If you want you silly traditions, fine, but don't force other people to take part in them.
Who decides what is "silly" and what is not? I think theological laws are "silly", and that view can get me killed in many countries.
~:smoking:
Kralizec
06-15-2006, 22:10
Who decides what is "silly"
Having people participate in a religious tradition despite their objections. That's not the case here, though. As noted it seems like another case of overzealous multiculturalists presuming to speak for a minority, and embarassing said minority in the process.
Countries like Iran with such theological legislation are irrelevant to the discussion, unless your point is that we should follow in their footsteps.
Reenk Roink
06-15-2006, 22:45
Let's see what seems to be happening
1. Muslims move to sweden
2. Muslims go to church because they have to
3. "Wait, that's offensive !" says the PC crowd
4. Muslims go, uh, maybe, i don't care *shrug*
5. people on a message board complain about how Muslims are causing so much trouble in Europe and don't belong here in the first place
:wall:
An effective, cogent argument... :2thumbsup:
I'm another believer in not forcing immigrants to conform to my country's values. Our immigrants like to stay among each other, and that's perfectly cool.
They wanna speak Spanish? Go right ahead! :2thumbsup:
Wanna eat Chinese food? I'm not gonna shove burgers down your throat! :2thumbsup:
Don't want to shake hands due to religious modestly guidelines? Give me a friendly wave my friend! :2thumbsup:
Don't want to stand for the national anthem because you're a Jehovah's Witness? Then pop a squat man! :2thumbsup:
I kinda like it that way...
x-dANGEr
06-15-2006, 22:46
I think this argument feels a bit silly for me (No offence anyone), just want to give you a few infos:
No, it is not a sin to be in a church. It is not even a sin to pray their. I remember my brother actually prayed in a church and went out and made a speech -short one- on some show called A walk in your shoes?!
And as I already said, the way I see it, it isn't a big deal.. Doh! (I think what they objected to is the church thing more than the song)
rory_20_uk
06-15-2006, 22:57
They wanna speak Spanish? Go right ahead! :2thumbsup:
Wanna eat Chinese food? I'm not gonna shove burgers down your throat! :2thumbsup:
Don't want to shake hands due to religious modestly guidelines? Give me a friendly wave my friend! :2thumbsup:
Don't want to stand for the national anthem because you're a Jehovah's Witness? Then pop a squat man! :2thumbsup:
I kinda like it that way...
But...
Oh, you wanna speak spanish fine. You wanna job? We speak English, and so will your colleagues, and our clients.
You have different social norms... OK... but you're not going to be in the PR department as you'll torpedo us.
And so on.
In the NHS there are increasing problems with staff employed with a poor grasp of English. Here, lives are at stake if they don't understand what is bieng said, are unaware of the correct terms or have an accent so thick no-one can understand what they are going on about.
~:smoking:
Reenk Roink
06-15-2006, 23:14
But...
Oh, you wanna speak spanish fine. You wanna job? We speak English, and so will your colleagues, and our clients.
You have different social norms... OK... but you're not going to be in the PR department as you'll torpedo us.
And so on.
Well, I think we're making progress. This is a much better amended stance than your earlier one of "Any group that immigrates to a country should be aware of the traditions of said country. If they don't like them, then don't go there."
The workplace is different. And we have Chinatown or Mexicantown as the immigrants like to stay tight, so many of the immigrants work where they can speak Spanish or Chinese or Arabic etc...
And actually, I'm learning Spanish, as it is the wave of the future. :2thumbsup:
rory_20_uk
06-15-2006, 23:24
I disagree that they are mutually exclusive.
I have thought about working in the Middle East for a bit. It doesn't mean that I intend to become a Muslim, but that I am aware that their ways and laws are different from my own and in public I would have to alter what I do. I'm wouldn't drink, eat pork or suddenly decide to become a Christian evangelical.
If there are facets of the society that I could not tollerate I wouldn't go in the first place. I'd not go to Mecca and say that the tannoys are very loud and couldn't they be turned down a bit?
Of course I'm lucky. I am (supposedly) highly skilled, so countries are more likely to meet me half way (e.g. the Western compounds) to gain access to my skills.
So go to a country with the idea of fitting in. Sure, by bieng there the host nation will alter slowly over time, but the onus is on the individual, not the state.
~:smoking:
doc_bean
06-16-2006, 17:21
Most problems aren't caused by first generation immigrants though. Which seems to an assumption in this thread. It's usually around the third generation that problems arise, since they both see the country they live in as their own, and want to keep in touch with their original culture (well some of them anyway), this often leads to complaints or demands, since they consider themselves true citizens and not just guests. They feel the country should adapt to them to (like any modern democracy).
A.Saturnus
06-16-2006, 18:49
Who decides what is "silly" and what is not? I think theological laws are "silly", and that view can get me killed in many countries.
~:smoking:
Yes, and that's why these countries are bad.
I make no statement about which traditions are 'silly'. That was just an emphasis. The thing is no one should have do anything just because it's a tradition. People who want to work in Sweden should speak Swedish because the language is a necessary means of communication and Swedish is the preferred language for the majority of people in Sweden. Going to church and sing a psalm about summer is not necessary for anything and that's why no one should have to do it. If it makes you happy, feel free to do it, but don't expect us to join in. Of course, the not brain-damaged solution would be to make these visits to church voluntary and not banning psalms.
Alexanderofmacedon
06-17-2006, 03:06
Yes, you guessed right. Muslims.
At least that is what our ombudsman of dicrimination says when he criticizes schools for letting the children have the school finishing in church and sing "Blomstertid nu kommer", a psalm about summer. Oh how inhumane of us Swedes, wanting to keep our traditions. I know most muslims here are not offended by this but well, you know political correctness. In many schools singing the swedish national anthem is allready forbidden, and now some schools stop this beautiful tradition. The message is simple: We shall adapt to the muslims, not they to us. I am getting so tired of this and I know it's not allways the muslims fault, it's our multiculture-supportive politicians that hate everything what Swedish culture stands for. What shall we remove next? Midsummer celebratings? Christmas? Lucia? :inquisitive:
http://www.aftonbladet.se/vss/nyheter/story/0,2789,841952,00.html
The link is in swedish I'm afraid, but the title says: "God banned from school endings"
Is this kind of things happening in your countries too?
It is hard I'm sure. No one wants to lose their culture. :shame:
EDIT: If it's any consolation, I was rooting for Sweden against Paraguay and they finally got one goal in since qualifying. :bow:
King Ragnar
06-17-2006, 10:34
*shudders* its pathetic the muslims who complain and the so called do gooders should be kicked back to where they came from, even if they are 2nd or 3rd generation, they should go back to where the parents or grandparents came from.
Banquo's Ghost
06-17-2006, 13:55
*shudders* its pathetic the muslims who complain and the so called do gooders should be kicked back to where they came from, even if they are 2nd or 3rd generation, they should go back to where the parents or grandparents came from.
What about native born people with lineages many hundreds of years old that have converted to Islam? Is it the religion or the race that gets them kicked out? While we're at it, how about any Catholics or Jews since Sweden is a traditionally Protestant country?
Who qualifies to be Swedish in your Reich? :inquisitive:
King Ragnar
06-17-2006, 17:05
Im not even swedish lol, and nor did i say the whole relgion of Islam or race should be kicked out, i said the ones who complain and the 'do gooders' should be kicked out as they are the ones who are creating all the racial hatred and stereotyping of all muslims...
Well the ones who complain are infact swedish people and are blaming muslims who haven't done anything.
As I said before, muslims aren't forced to go to church, they aren't forced to sing the songs. This is probably why they haven't complained about it.
This is the stupid PC crowd that removed something that hasn't offended anyone nor has anyone actually complained about it.
King Ragnar
06-17-2006, 19:09
Well the swedish people need a good kick up the backside, and they should be forced to go to the muslim communities and see that nothing is wrong to embarrass themselves.
Well the ones who complain are infact swedish people and are blaming muslims who haven't done anything.
As I said before, muslims aren't forced to go to church, they aren't forced to sing the songs. This is probably why they haven't complained about it.
This is the stupid PC crowd that removed something that hasn't offended anyone nor has anyone actually complained about it.
That is true. But why oh why doesn't the muslim communities here slam the fist in the table and say: Let the swedes have their customs, we are not offended! Well, they don't and therefore this sort of things spread hatred only. If Swedes view on muslims are getting worse and worse it's also their own fault, not only ours.
doc_bean
06-18-2006, 11:39
That is true. But why oh why doesn't the muslim communities here slam the fist in the table and say: Let the swedes have their customs, we are not offended! Well, they don't and therefore this sort of things spread hatred only. If Swedes view on muslims are getting worse and worse it's also their own fault, not only ours.
Then they would seem ungrateful towards the people trying to help them ?
Honestly, I don't think most immigrants really bother to stand up to stereotypes anymore since it's a fight against the flood. :oops:
Then they would seem ungrateful towards the people trying to help them ?
Honestly, I don't think most immigrants really bother to stand up to stereotypes anymore since it's a fight against the flood. :oops:
But "the people that help them" doesn't help them and immegrants understand that! They are splitting the Swedish society in we and them. If I were muslim I would have been really angry at my "helpers"...
doc_bean
06-18-2006, 13:38
But "the people that help them" doesn't help them and immegrants understand that! They are splitting the Swedish society in we and them. If I were muslim I would have been really angry at my "helpers"...
Bleh, it's all politics, the common man usually doesn't care, and the common immigrant will probably care even less. Occasionally one immigrant rises up but then automatically becomes 'the voice of his community and so is often citizised by members of his own community for having slightly different views than them, they essentially become politicians, without getting the money, but getting all the criticism, who wants that ?
rory_20_uk
06-18-2006, 13:40
Very good point. The first one over the parapet is the first one shot - especially if no-one else follow him/her over.
~:smoking:
That is true. But why oh why doesn't the muslim communities here slam the fist in the table and say: Let the swedes have their customs, we are not offended! Well, they don't and therefore this sort of things spread hatred only. If Swedes view on muslims are getting worse and worse it's also their own fault, not only ours.
I agree, they should do that but would anyone actually listen to them ??
Maybe they don't say anything because they feel that way, that they don't have a right to say anything.
If Swedes view on muslims are getting worse and worse it's also their own fault, not only oursWell in this case it is entirely our fault.
If a few muslims did complain then yes it would be partially their fault for not speaking against it.
This however has nothing to do with them therefore can't be their fault.
If you were wrongfully accused of a crime do you have to apologise for it ?? No, they have to apologise to you and is entirely their fault.
Same here, they are accused of doing something they haven't done. It is entirely our fault.
Papewaio
06-19-2006, 01:46
I do not think that a immigrant has to apologise for the actions of another person, just because that person is using immigration as a lever to get their own agenda through.
Aren't the immigrants Swedes too? Why should some Swedes have an onus placed on them because they are immigrants? They aren't a second class of citizen so why the idea that they should have to apologise for others?
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