Campaign map low res screens...

[MaximianusBR]

not sure if you guys have seen it...some low resolution map screens...

http://www.activision.de/new_forum/index.php?act=ST&f=14&t=2641&

it's very good!give a special look to screen 4...:2thumbsup:


Credits to:Ituralde and Amenbat...

"link was broken"

[doc_bean]

error ! ARGH ! :furious3:

[MaximianusBR]

error ! ARGH ! :furious3:

good now?

enjoy!:2thumbsup:

[Duke John]

And this map was held in secrecy? Surely this is still work-in-progress. Or am I getting too used to mods making better and more interesting things than the official games? :tongue2:

[MaximianusBR]

And this map was held in secrecy? Surely this is still work-in-progress. Or am I getting too used to mods making better and more interesting things than the official games? :tongue2:

it's an alpha version map showed in e3...

[Dutch_guy]

Yes, I do think this is WIP, and do keep in mind the shots are shot in a very low resolution, which literally blurs the image.

Those Papal standing pics. look nice, they found the middle way between the Roman senate system and the Medieval Papal system, which in my opinion is a good thing.

Now let's hope for some High res. shots of the campaing map ~:)

:balloon2:

[doc_bean]

good now?

enjoy!:2thumbsup:

yes thank you :2thumbsup: :2thumbsup: :2thumbsup:

The map looks too much liek RTW for my liking though...

[MaximianusBR]

I think it's more land in North, West and South...

[Lord Adherbal]

I wouldn't care if the maps looks like that if the AI is (very) good. Otherwise I don't have a clue what they've been doing over the last year. Then thay'd be better off hiring a mod team. Which is actualy not such a bad idea either way...

[shifty157]

Apparently the map is in Alpha state.

[MaximianusBR]

Apparently the map is in Alpha state.

it's alpha

give a look in this thread:
http://p223.ezboard.com/fshoguntotalwarfrm55.showMessage?topicID=2462.topic

[B-Wing]

I was hoping there'd be more provinces, but that's not too few. Looks like they nearly cut Norway off the map. :viking: I guess most of it would be composed of impassible mountains anyway.

[MaximianusBR]

maybe they did it cause the danes always conquered it anyway so its not relevant...

[Afro Thunder]

Does it have a place where it displays the year? (Sorry, of course I mean "turn") :inquisitive:

[MaximianusBR]

Does it have a place where it displays the year? (Sorry, of course I mean "turn") :inquisitive:

give an special look at the screen 4...there you can read the YEAR, turns left and other things........

[Mooks]

Thats some horrible resolution. :dizzy2:

[Furious Mental]

Wtf? Why does some PC Powerplay in Germany get a vid of the campaign map and PC Powerplay in Australia gets nothing? The bloody development studio is in Brisbane!

[Mooks]

Danm those germans :furious3: /shakes fist!!

Just for this, im not taking that language class, hope that will teach them to get information before us.

[Divine Wind]

The Papal standings part was interesting, much like the Senate standings in vanilla RTW.

Gents, lets not forget, if this is the Alpha its faaaaaar from finished so to make judgements based on poor quality shots is a bit silly.

[amritochates]

Following the link given in the map low res screen thread:

http://www.activision.de/new_forum/index.php?act=ST&f=14&t=2641&

If one checks out the last screen which is of army movements as it appears on the campaign map- you get a reasonably clear picture of the alpha campaign map which should be instantly recognisable to any MTW_VI player as the orignal MTW campaign map, just rendered hideously so in 3-D.

It follows the exact geographical parameters as the orignal mtw map except that the map has been extended slighly east to include a larger part of the arabian peninsula, and on initial appraisal, it appears to me that the no. of provinces will be severely limited, if not as low as MTW, then definately in the same ball park as BI.

Overall just not very impressive.:ahh:

[naut]

Also notice the small land-mass in the top left hand corner, in the first pic.

[DukeofSerbia]

М2 TW map = R TW map

Not good news for me.

[NagatsukaShumi]

The map does have its similarities to the RTW map but again I think people are going a bit overboard, the STW map was hardly that different to the MTW map albeit a bit brighter and obviously a different country and its not exactally a big surprise that it looks a bit similar to the RTW map, which may I add was hardly terrible obviously it had some flaws but I'd rather have the RTW map again with no changes but city names with a smarter AI than a fantastic living Medieval Europe with huge accuracy and stupid AI.

These shots look promising.

[Furious Mental]

I can't be sure, but I would wager that they have kept the campaign map that size, and used a relatively small number of provinces in order to allow the player to conquer it in 225 turns. Personally I don't like that at all.

[Rodion Romanovich]

graphically much more pleasant than RTW, but that's really all I can say. It would be fun if gameplay went through a massive change for variety's sake. Difficult to judge that from looking at those screenies. The screenies confirm that the graphics are good though.

[MaximianusBR]

I could read what's in screen 4 and it says:

Overviews:

Capital City: London
Faction Leader: Henry
Greatest General: Willian
Generals:4 Regions controlled:3 (I Think)
Cities:1 Castles:2
Batles won:0 Batles Lost:1
Year: 1080 Turns played:1

Victory condictions:

Domination: Hold 14 regions including: Rome, Constantinople, Jerusalem
Outlive faction: France

Turns remaining: 225.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
I think it show us that are other victory condition along domination, maybe Glorious Achievements:2thumbsup:....and Cities still have name as it was in Rome...:balloon2:

[econ21]

Domination: Hold 14 regions including: Rome, Constantinople, Jerusalem
Outlive faction: France

I like those victory conditions. The number of regions you need to hold is surprisingly small (we're used to 50!) but the precise ones chosen seem very ambitious for England. And the "outlive..." condition is very characterful (apologies to my French friends ~:grouphug: ).

[Slasher]

I reckon it looks decent....look at the mountains in Italy...very nice...

Also I suspect PC Powerplay in Australia will get better quality stuff....while the Germans should get arrested for espionage!

[B-Wing]

Also notice the small land-mass in the top left hand corner, in the first pic.

Oh boy! We'll get to conquer Iceland! :jumping: That really makes me happy, even though I don't see any strategic, or even economic, advantage in controling it. I guess the land of ice and fire has just always been very interesting to me.

BTW, were the Timurids ever confirmed as a playable faction? Because if they were, I would think the map would have to extend further east.

[MaximianusBR]

BTW, were the Timurids ever confirmed as a playable faction? Because if they were, I would think the map would have to extend further east.

they are confirmed...but they will be as the mongols...will appear at the map as some kind of advanced horde system...and will not be playable...:sweatdrop:

[MaximianusBR]

can anyone put the first pic here to me??? my pc is not loading it completely...I can't see it:help: PLEASE!

[MaximianusBR]

don't need it more...problem resolved!...clean disk solved it...:2thumbsup:

[MaximianusBR]

Iceland is there!...vikings colonized it wasn't?
I think that will be the east north america cost, caribe, central america and northeast south america part in new world map...it's good!!!:2thumbsup:
i fear that aztecs will conquer all these lands when you come to it....or maybe they will be adjusted to don't attack rebels...they will certainly be unplayable...

[TB666]

i fear that aztecs will conquer all these lands when you come to it....or maybe they will be adjusted to don't attack rebels...they will certainly be unplayable...
You are right about Aztecs not being playable. It would be quite boring since I doubt they will be able to travel across the ocean.
But if we go by the homepage then they won't be alone, the Mayans will be there as well.
And according to a magazine even the Incas but my guess is that they mean Aztecs.

[MaximianusBR]

You are right about Aztecs not being playable. It would be quite boring since I doubt they will be able to travel across the ocean.
But if we go by the homepage then they won't be alone, the Mayans will be there as well.
And according to a magazine even the Incas but my guess is that they mean Aztecs.

the official CA list says that the 21 factions will be:(star at that I think will be playable)

Aztecs
Timurids
Mongols
Venice*
Papal states
Milan
Spain*
Portugal
Egypt*
Moors*
Turks*
Russians*
Poland*
HRE*
France*
England*
Bizantium*
Sicily
Hungary
Denmark*
Scotland

[TB666]

the official CA list says that the 21 factions will be:(star at that I think will be playable)

True but if you go on the website and click on factions you see that they mention the mayans.

The campaign map is divided by a large number of factions including the English and French in Europe, the Egyptians and Moors in Africa, the Aztecs and Mayans in the New World, plus many more.

[MaximianusBR]

True but if you go on the website and click on factions you see that they mention the mayans.

never seen it.....but i'm happy!!!!!!!and sad at the same time....mayans were decadent at that time so would be best if it was incas...but one more faction is ever good!!:2thumbsup:

[Geoffrey S]

Can't say these screenshots show much progress of the map over RTW; hopefully the AI will be improved so armies coordinate better.

Although it has been stated that this map is in early stages, the fact that the Alexander map looks pretty awful isn't too promising for the final version.

[Myrddraal]

М2 TW map = R TW map

Not good news for me.

Those of you expecting a radical new campaign map, I think you should think again. Consider the difference between the STW map and the MTW map. That didn't stop MTW being a great game.

[NodachiSam]

The map looks promising but I *seriously* hope they go further north to include more novogordian land and maybe the tip of finland again. I really don't care that much about north africa beyond its coast. Its a crying shame they didn't tilt the whole map a little bit to get more of mesopotamia and scandanavia and the baltic in. You could've even gotten mecca in there too.

[Ituralde]

I actually planned on opening a new thread, but somehow I'm not allowed to do it. Took me long enough to even register and sign on and find a password that was complicated enought to work but I could still somehow remember.

Anyways, I'm the guy that has found those screenshots in the German forum, and since I live in Germany I went out and bought that magazin to have a look at the video those screenshots were taken from for myself.

I thought it was a pretty nice video.
What do you think?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLcQdh6g7Ms

[Orda Khan]

the official CA list says that the 21 factions will be:(star at that I think will be playable)

Aztecs
Timurids
Mongols
Venice*
Papal states
Milan
Spain*
Portugal
Egypt*
Moors*
Turks*
Russians*
Poland*
HRE*
France*
England*
Bizantium*
Sicily
Hungary
Denmark*
Scotland
Mongols as a non playable faction? So all we will see in MTW II will be huge stacks of those pathetic AI offerings that are supposed to present some threat. Not a good move by CA if things go this way. First thing I will do with non playables is make them playable

.........Orda

[TB666]

Mongols as a non playable faction?
Did you really expect them to be playable ?? :inquisitive:
The game starts around 1080 AD and there are no periods. Naturally they won't be playable.
Just like MTW they will pop up when the time is due. Same with the Timurids.

[Ultras DVSC]

First thing I will do with non playables is make them playable

Evident, it cannot be difficulty.

[MaximianusBR]

I actually planned on opening a new thread, but somehow I'm not allowed to do it. Took me long enough to even register and sign on and find a password that was complicated enought to work but I could still somehow remember.

Anyways, I'm the guy that has found those screenshots in the German forum, and since I live in Germany I went out and bought that magazin to have a look at the video those screenshots were taken from for myself.

I thought it was a pretty nice video.
What do you think?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLcQdh6g7Ms

WOW!!!...cool video...:2thumbsup:...thanks Ituralde...
as I wroted in Medieval II forum in total war.com:
Three cheers to Ituralde!!!!:2thumbsup: :2thumbsup: :2thumbsup:

(again credits to Ituralde by finding these pics)

[pyradyn]

So when did it become bash the germans on this fourm thats not very nice. I heard people speaking in english in the video too. So just because our people care about us to get us videos :). Also I think the Mongols should be playable its not fair if you have to play only as a monotheistic faith I want to play as a fellow pagan and crush the Papacy :D.


Auch Ituralde Willkommen zum fourm. :2thumbsup: und Dank für den Bildschirm

[MaximianusBR]

So when did it become bash the germans on this fourm thats not very nice. I heard people speaking in english in the video too. So just because our people care about us to get us videos :). Also I think the Mongols should be playable its not fair if you have to play only as a monotheistic faith I want to play as a fellow pagan and crush the Papacy :D.


Auch Ituralde Willkommen zum fourm. :2thumbsup: und Dank für den Bildschirm

I don't bash germans...you're good people...i loved to see my Brazil destroing you in 2002 world cup final!!!:laugh4: :2thumbsup:

[UltraWar]

Gah! My Eyes!

It seems to have a great diplomacy system and I can't wait for the High-Resolution version!

[MaximianusBR]

Gah! My Eyes!

It seems to have a great diplomacy system and I can't wait for the High-Resolution version!

Yeah...can't wait to see the mercants too...:2thumbsup:

[Lord Adherbal]

ouch my hopes for MTW2 dropped AGAIN after seeing that video. An enemy unit charges, and basicly doesn't stop before it's in the middle of the enemy formation, and only then both units start fighting eachother! Even RTW didn't have this problem in this magnitude. It seems the emphasise (sp?) on "cool animations" is steadily killing the TW gameplay...

[TB666]

Looks far better then anything else in the series.
That the front rank always fight while the rest just stands there thingy that has plagued the previous games isn't very realistic.
Now the entire unit gets "stuck in" which is alot better.
Of course let's hope they can get out easily enough. Don't want another Imperial glory "fight to the death" units.

[Peasant Phill]

Maybe some units, like spears or vikings, can form a shield wall if you want to avoid such things. Let's stay hopeful

Again the speed of the infantry and cav (if armoured) was way to fast. On the bright side there were no instant routs so the actual battle speed may be lowered (although the battle part of the video was fairly short and I can't compare to RTW as I never played it).

[Lord Adherbal]

That the front rank always fight while the rest just stands there thingy that has plagued the previous games isn't very realistic.
Now the entire unit gets "stuck in" which is alot better.

I'm afraid you watched too much Braveheart.

[TB666]

Adherbal']I'm afraid you watched too much Braveheart.
And you played too much TW.
All the TW-games has had a serious anti-climax when ever a unit charges because only the front rank do anything. I seriously doubt the others behind just sat there and waited for the guy in front to die before they got some action.
I seriously doubt that after they picking up such speed when they charge that the ones in the back would just stop and wait in line like they do in TW.
And I seriously doubt the front rank would form a neat straight line and just poke their swords and spears at the enemies front ranks.
While yes the front rank shouldn't run past the enemies front rank like that(atleast not all of them) and should start fighting the moment the collision happens but the others behind shouldn't wait like in previous game but pick out their own targets as well and start fighting as well. MTW2 is heading there and fighting itself seems to get better and better.
If we have a time machine and go back and see a medieval battle I think this is pretty much what we will see, a mess of troops.

[Lucjan]

What about the Aztecs? They made a whole fuss about them and now the map CLEARLY doesn't extend that far.

[TB666]

What about the Aztecs? They made a whole fuss about them and now the map CLEARLY doesn't extend that far.
Well could be because of 2 theories:
1. The map expands when the time comes.
2. They are simply not added yet to the map which is probably the best theory. It is a alpha after all.

[Lucjan]

I have a sneaking suspicion they'll be lazy and pull something like they did with VI, have two seperate campaigns and two seperate maps.

[TB666]

I have a sneaking suspicion they'll be lazy and pull something like they did with VI, have two seperate campaigns and two seperate maps.
Well if those 2 campaigns are equally good then I don't mind:laugh4: .
But I think they said in one of the previews that it would be on the same map.

[Silver Rusher]

I have a sneaking suspicion they'll be lazy and pull something like they did with VI, have two seperate campaigns and two seperate maps.
So you would have wanted to play a long campaign as the HRE, and rather than discovering the new world your people would have invented a time machine which allowed one of your armies to go back to Britain in the dark ages and conquer it on behalf of your new-fangled time and space empire? :inquisitive:

Besides, I think that when the time comes you will be able to switch the map over to the New World, do some stuff there, then switch the map back onto Europe and continue the campaign there.

[Lucjan]

So you would have wanted to play a long campaign as the HRE, and rather than discovering the new world your people would have invented a time machine which allowed one of your armies to go back to Britain in the dark ages and conquer it on behalf of your new-fangled time and space empire? :inquisitive:

Besides, I think that when the time comes you will be able to switch the map over to the New World, do some stuff there, then switch the map back onto Europe and continue the campaign there.


...you seem confused, because I have no clue what you're talking about.

I said they might put the aztecs and mayans and such in a completely different campaign similar to how VI worked with MTW.

Where in the world did you get time machines from?

[Lord Adherbal]

All the TW-games has had a serious anti-climax when ever a unit charges because only the front rank do anything. I seriously doubt the others behind just sat there and waited for the guy in front to die before they got some action.
I seriously doubt that after they picking up such speed when they charge that the ones in the back would just stop and wait in line like they do in TW.
And I seriously doubt the front rank would form a neat straight line and just poke their swords and spears at the enemies front ranks.
While yes the front rank shouldn't run past the enemies front rank like that(atleast not all of them) and should start fighting the moment the collision happens but the others behind shouldn't wait like in previous game but pick out their own targets as well and start fighting as well. MTW2 is heading there and fighting itself seems to get better and better.
If we have a time machine and go back and see a medieval battle I think this is pretty much what we will see, a mess of troops.

depending on weapons used of course, but most combat WAS standing in line poking at eachother. Phalanxes and romans with their large shields depended entirely on that. Charging and jumping in/over enemies is complete hollywood nonsense. If you did that you'd probably knock over your opponent, but you'd go down too, in the middle of the enemy formation. Not something you'd want to happen unless you're suicidal or hollywood actor.
Medieval armies - unlike what you see in movies and even MTW - relied mostly on spear armed infantry, who would fight in very close formations (shield wall). Later on spears when replaced by pikes and halberds.
Unless you were a crazy berserker or suicidal you wouldn't blindly charge your enemy, you'd stick as close to the protection of your brothers in arms as possible.

[MaximianusBR]

Adherbal']depending on weapons used of course, but most combat WAS standing in line poking at eachother. Phalanxes and romans with their large shields depended entirely on that. Charging and jumping in/over enemies is complete hollywood nonsense. If you did that you'd probably knock over your opponent, but you'd go down too, in the middle of the enemy formation. Not something you'd want to happen unless you're suicidal or hollywood actor.
Medieval armies - unlike what you see in movies and even MTW - relied mostly on spear armed infantry, who would fight in very close formations (shield wall). Later on spears when replaced by pikes and halberds.
Unless you were a crazy berserker or suicidal you wouldn't blindly charge your enemy, you'd stick as close to the protection of your brothers in arms as possible.

maybe it happened cause it was a unit using long axes(???) so they would prefer a strong charge to dismenber enemy line...and the atacked unit used litle weapons no spears and shields...

[TB666]

I can agree with the phalanxes and romans and the spear units. But wasn't the main objective for the traditional phalanx to break the enemies formation like a wrecking ball ?? While with a big shield like they had in a phalanx this wasn't easy if the enemy fought in the same way and those lines would indeed be created. But the unit in the video has no shields and are using a 2-handed weapon and aren't in a very tight formation either.
As I said earlier, it doesn't look perfect, they shouldn't run through them like that and should react to the first rank but it looks far better then let's say RTW where sometimes the unit stops and slowly walk up to the enemy and these are berserkers I'm talking about.
But if you look on you can see the cavarly doesn't have this and do hit the front rank.

[MaximianusBR]

I can agree with the phalanxes and romans and the spear units. But wasn't the main objective for the traditional phalanx to break the enemies formation like a wrecking ball ?? While with a big shield like they had in a phalanx this wasn't easy if the enemy fought in the same way and those lines would indeed be created. But the unit in the video has no shields and are using a 2-handed weapon and aren't in a very tight formation either.
As I said earlier, it doesn't look perfect, they shouldn't run through them like that and should react to the first rank but it looks far better then let's say RTW where sometimes the unit stops and slowly walk up to the enemy and these are berserkers I'm talking about.
But if you look on you can see the cavarly doesn't have this and do hit the front rank.

agree with you...

[Lord Adherbal]

suppose I gave you an axe, and tell you and your axe carrying friends to go and attack an enemy formation of halberdiers. Would you charge and crash through the enemy or advance with causion ? If you charge you'll most likely end up with a halberd spearpoint in your stomach.

and halberdier formations actualy fought simular to spearmen. They formed a dense wall of spearpoints to keep the enemy at distance, and then individuals would chop at the enemy with the halberd blade, or pull shields and weapons away with the hook, so that other halberdiers can stab at the exposed enemy. Later on halberds got a cross section on the handle that could be use to block enemy attacks.
None of this charge in the middle of enemy formation nonsense that you see in this video.

[TB666]

Adherbal']suppose I gave you an axe, and tell you and your axe carrying friends to go and attack an enemy formation of halberdiers. Would you charge and crash through the enemy or advance with causion ? If you charge you'll most likely end up with a halberd spearpoint in your stomach.
Ha ! I wouldn't have been in a army in the first place :laugh4:
But it is difficult to say, I have never been in that situation and didn't live in those days. People thought differently back then.
Look at Pickett's charge during the battle at Gettysburg, 15000 men marching up to musket and cannon fire knowing it would kill them and yet they did it. That attack was doomed for stage 1 and pretty much everyone knew it and yet did it.
If it was me today I would have said screw this I'm going home.
Everyone view history from modern eyes wether they like it or not but fact is that people thought differently back then. What is insanity to us may not have been that for them.



Adherbal']and halberdier formations actualy fought simular to spearmen. They formed a dense wall of spearpoints to keep the enemy at distance, and then individual would chop at the enemy with the halberd blade, or pull shields and weapons away with the hook, so that other halberds can stab at the exposed enemy. Later on halberds got a cross section on the handle that could be use to block enemy attacks.
None of this charge in the middle of enemy formation nonsense that you see in this video.
They probably did but this doesn't apply to the unit in question. They are not in a tight formation and don't have a shield to take the blow.
What you see is a not very tight unit that is being charged by a unit with a huge 2-handed axe, high on adrenalin and charging down-hill.
I repeat again, it doesn't look perfect but looks better then before.

[Ibn Munqidh]

Adherbal']ouch my hopes for MTW2 dropped AGAIN after seeing that video. An enemy unit charges, and basicly doesn't stop before it's in the middle of the enemy formation, and only then both units start fighting eachother! Even RTW didn't have this problem in this magnitude. It seems the emphasise (sp?) on "cool animations" is steadily killing the TW gameplay...

Adherbal,

You must realize that a medieval heavy cav war horse or light cav charger was really hard to stop once the charge has begun, even by its rider. I would also think that a unit standing firm in front of a cavalry charge would get bashed up quite bad, as tight as it is. A horse back then, with a that armour and its rider, would generate A LOT of kinetic energy that would probably knock three men off their feet, send them flying ten feet backwards if they stood in its way. The way charges were done in RTW was semi-realistic, and in STW and MTW, they werent at all. The only way I see a cavalry being stopped in their tracks is through a spear wall, a phalanx, nothing else, as a horse, however stupid it was, would refuse to charge to its death. I just hope the AI strategical coordination of armies and diplomacy is as good as the graphics are in MTW:II, ive been impressed with the battles so far.

[Geoffrey S]

I seriously doubt the others behind just sat there and waited for the guy in front to die before they got some action.
I seriously doubt that after they picking up such speed when they charge that the ones in the back would just stop and wait in line like they do in TW.
And I seriously doubt the front rank would form a neat straight line and just poke their swords and spears at the enemies front ranks.
Funnily enough, that's exactly what would happen. Mainly armies would push at each other; usually the flight would start at the rear, if troops thought they were getting pushed back too far and got worried, yet couldn't see the main fighting properly. There were far more advantages to sticking with the group than going it alone.

Usually, even after charging, only the first two ranks would be directly involved in the fighting, with the second rank covering the person in front. Further back it'd be almost impossible to see what was going on, let alone attack effectively; it would be here that nervousness would set in and flight may start.

Remember, battles would last hours, unlike the minutes of the TW series. There'd be very few casualties until the final rout, and fighting would be very tentative a lot of the time (poking swords and spears at the enemies front ranks, as you put it).

Don't be fooled by TW. It's a very different beast from the way such warfare truly functioned, which is why such high movement speeds and quickly resolved battles are such an issue with many people interested in the facts behind the fiction.

[screwtype]

Adherbal']ouch my hopes for MTW2 dropped AGAIN after seeing that video. An enemy unit charges, and basicly doesn't stop before it's in the middle of the enemy formation, and only then both units start fighting eachother! Even RTW didn't have this problem in this magnitude. It seems the emphasise (sp?) on "cool animations" is steadily killing the TW gameplay...

Uh, yeah, I have to agree. That looked totally ridiculous.

And those stupid, cartoonish cannon animations really make me cringe.

Looks to me like they have well and truly turned their backs on the realism buffs, in favour of cheap, tawdry, RTS style action.

I suddenly find myself very much doubting I will buy this game. And if it's bad as it looks from that video, I doubt I will ever be buying another CA game again.

[screwtype]

Adherbal']depending on weapons used of course, but most combat WAS standing in line poking at eachother. Phalanxes and romans with their large shields depended entirely on that. Charging and jumping in/over enemies is complete hollywood nonsense.

Not only that, but Roman troops had a method whereby the troops in a maniple would rotate every few minutes from the front to the rear, that way they didn't exhaust themselves and had a chance to recover and keep going. In that video the enemy are barging right through to the rear, as if the body of men they were attacking had no mass at all!

Same with the cannon. They bounce up and down and all around like they were made of paper. The whole thing just looks unbelievably silly.

And I allowed myself to have high hopes for this game. Looks like I was just kidding myself.

[Lord Adherbal]

Adherbal,

You must realize that a medieval heavy cav war horse or light cav charger was really hard to stop once the charge has begun

yeah, but I'm not talking about cavalry, but infantry.

[Ibn Munqidh]

Same with the cannon. They bounce up and down and all around like they were made of paper. The whole thing just looks unbelievably silly.



errm, screwtype, you do understand the concept of recoil in firearms do you? This is normal of anything that goes boom on one end.

[Ibn Munqidh]

Adherbal']yeah, but I'm not talking about cavalry, but infantry.

Sorry then, irrelevant.

[Lord Adherbal]

errm, screwtype, you do understand the concept of recoil in firearms do you? This is normal of anything that goes boom on one end.

true, but the cannons should role backward, or - considering the wheels are blocked - slightly move upward, but not as much as they do now. Although I personally don't care about that. I'd happily trade those fancy 3D graphics for 2D sprites if the gameplay would match or perhaps even excell that of STW and MTW.

[MaximianusBR]

Adherbal']true, but the cannons should role backward, or - considering the wheels are blocked - slightly move upward, but not as much as they do now. Although I personally don't care about that. I'd happily trade those fancy 3D graphics for 2D sprites if the gameplay would match or perhaps even excell that of STW and MTW.

some people are never happy...:inquisitive:

[econ21]

Adherbal']depending on weapons used of course, but most combat WAS standing in line poking at eachother. Phalanxes and romans with their large shields depended entirely on that. Charging and jumping in/over enemies is complete hollywood nonsense.

I'm sure you are right overall, but there was a lovely historical account posted recently (I think on the EB forums) of how Roman soldiers climbed over the shields of their enemies in their eagerness to get at them. Now that might have been a Roman general over-selling his boys for the folks back home but I suspect there's an element of truth in it. Studies of modern warfare tend to show it is something like 1/20 soldiers who are the real killers who take risks and act offensively. The way elite units and special forces can overcome larger numbers of lower quality troops probably reflect them having a higher proportion of such men, whether by selection, esprit de corps or training. I'm prepared to believe the Roman legionnaires at their prime might have had that advantage over some of their opponents. Ditto the Vikings, the Mongols, the Conquistadores, the Zulus etc in their day. It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog, and all that.

[Ignoramus]

What is this nonsense about England conquering Rome and Constantinople? It was French Crusaders who conquered Constantinople, and as for the English cinquering Rome, I have never heard such utter rubbish in my life! And if England only has 4 starting territories, I wonder how many Scotland will have?

I have grave fears about Medieval Total War II, in fact, at this rate compared to Rome: Total War, Rome: Total War looks like a very good game. And compare it to the original MTW, this is a cheap, worthless, ahistorical scrap of plastic and cardboard.

[B-Wing]

Ignoramus, I think you're mistaking the English victory conditions for historical achievements. Obviously, whatever mode is being played in that screenshot is not the same thing as MTW's victory point mode, whatever it was called. So calm down. ~;)

[Mooks]

That german commander...complete noob. Did anyone else catch how the enemy on his left flank just went through his small infantry and started to attack his artillery? Rout in 2 minutes.

Heres another thing. Why were the enemy advancing on him? He attacked THEM, yet they cleary charged across teh battlefield and attacked, is this possibly because of his adv in long range artillery?

The infantry collision made me laugh. It looks like the enemy couldve just walked through his infantry. And the cannons, they fired TWO SHOTS, how can anything be effective after only 2 shots? All the units reminded me of olympic cross-country runners (running that far, in a suit of armor, in the desert, is extremely hard. Then fighting...)

The romans fough pushing their sheilds against the enemy and stabbing with their gladius from below (hitting..you know..the groin). The were alot more agressive then RTW.

I was thinking about getting this game for christmas or something...but 'glory of the roman empire' city building game is looking nice....

Is CA even reading what we post? Must as well stop posting feedback because they obviosly dont read it.

[Lucjan]

CA had said from the beginning that realism wasn't going to be their focus for M2, but after seeing that pathetic display (cannons bouncing around like ragdolls and a unit littering not stopping to fight until it had run halfway through its target's formation) I'm going to have to abandon my moderationist outlook on the game. Unless there are some serious improvements to the way battles are conducted within the next couple months before release, the only way I'd purchase this game is if it could be modded so that stupid hollywood nonsense like that simply doesn't occur.

[Ignoramus]

Ignoramus, I think you're mistaking the English victory conditions for historical achievements. Obviously, whatever mode is being played in that screenshot is not the same thing as MTW's victory point mode, whatever it was called. So calm down. ~;)

I have not mistaken anything. Why would the English victory conditions require you to conquer Rome and Constantinople? Historically, (oh and BTW I am guessing you don't care much about the historical aspect, which is ok.) the English never even set foot in Italy. They didn'y set foot in Constantinople either. So why has CA gone crazy?

[Duke John]

I watched the video and I can now say that the demo will need to have fixed alot of things before I even consider buying M2:TW. Infantry charging halfway through prepared infantry. Seemingly AI controlled cavalry that charges infantry gets almost annihalated and routs within 10 seconds.

The game is starting to look even more like a RTS with humans being reduced to suicidal drones. They might as well remove morale as it is practically the only realistic behaviour left.

[Lucjan]

I watched the video and I can now say that the demo will need to have fixed alot of things before I even consider buying M2:TW. Infantry charging halfway through prepared infantry. Seemingly AI controlled cavalry that charges infantry gets almost annihalated and routs within 10 seconds.

The game is starting to look even more like a RTS with humans being reduced to suicidal drones. They might as well remove morale as it is practically the only realistic behaviour left.


By rts I'm assuming you mean a mindless slugfest some pathetic excuse for a developer decided to stick the word 'strategy' on because he wasn't sure what else to call the garbage.

[Duke John]

A mindless slugfest, yes.

[sunsmountain]

How different my response.. with Rome:TW, I would scrutinize every screenshot to get more information, this time, i'm like Cartman: I dont care.

If they would showcase the new campaign map AI, and show how dedicated the AI built its own settlements, beyond the choice city/castle (economy/military), THEN i would be interested & surprised.

[Lord Adherbal]

yeah only a VERY good demo can make me change my mind of not buying (and modding) this game.

I remember when playing the RTW demo something didn't feel right, but I couldn't say exactly what. The battle was also too limited and scripted.
But after 1.5 years of modding I know exactly what's wrong, and it's a lot. I will certainly study the MTW2 demo until I know which of the RTW problem were fixed - unless it's so bad that I uninstall it right away and move on to another game, or quit gaming altogether.

[maxpriest]

Sadly we don't have much choice, no other high-profile developer is making a game like this.
What would be ideal is if some other developer who IS interested in making a more realistic and complex game would effectively "steal" the idea and make a better version of it ( am I making sense here? ).

[Duke John]

Mad Minute Games has produced excellent tactical wargames. Then there is HistWar which is also still focusing on a tactical wargame. Both are very small independent developers and do not yet have a strategic game included, but the tactical part is/will be far better than TW.

I think that CA is starting to lose a segment of market with its current course; the real wargamers will eventually recognize TW as just a fun game, not a game that portrays battle accurately enough to call it a wargame. Just like AoE is not called a wargame. At least that counts for me. When I read an account of a battle and want to replay it in a game I do not turn towards the standard RTS games, and I will probably will not turn to M2:TW with its, from I can see from the videos, unrealistic unit behaviour.
As a result there will be a gap in the market that is not really filled with "state of the art" games and eventually that will be filled with actually good wargames (HistWar, Take Command at least). A bit like a new generation.

[Furious Mental]

HistWar Les Grognards looks interesting. When it is coming out?

[Myrddraal]

I am confident that the larger bugs which people are appalled at (and rightly so) will not be in the final release. Why? Because I don't think CA are idiots, and I think if you can see these bugs from one poor quality video, then they're hardly likely to miss them.

[Mooks]

Lets just hope so.

[MaximianusBR]

let's hope so...we can't do anything...

[Lord Adherbal]

after reading the "CA bashing" sticky I've decided to stop commenting about MTW2 and RTW problems. I did this hoping that CA would read it and actualy fix the problems. I also did it to compensate the "OMG!!!!111 that looks great!!!" replies I see too often that might give CA the impression that the majority of fans think MTW2 is looking very promising. I was happy to see that many other people agree with me that it doesn't. Not for the hardcore TW fans that want tactical and realistic gameplay anyway. Now I'll just give up on MTW2, and my intensions of making mods for it. A very impressive demo will be necessary to restore my interest in the future of TW series.

[econ21]

Adherbal']after reading the "CA bashing" sticky I've decided to stop commenting about MTW2 and RTW problems.

~:confused: The sticky just says don't be offensive and insulting. I can't see why you think that precludes your participation. You have never been offensive or insulting here. Your points are typically informed, well reasoned and expressed in polite language. :bow:

[Lord Adherbal]

well it's just that you may be right that these disappointment posts make Ca members stay away from the forums. Either way, I've mensioned the most important problems RTW has, and that's all I can do. If CA has been reading it they must decide whether they're gonna fix them or not - if they haven't read it then it's just been a waste of my time. Now I'll just await the MTW2 demo - and keep modding RTW for a while.

[Lucjan]

Hopefully m2 will prove our doom and gloom concerns to be wrong, but either way, I don't see the modding community stopping their work. As new and unique ideas keep coming out, the tw community will continue to flourish.

And even if ai and realism concerns aren't adressed, somebody will change them, and we'll end up with the greatest mod the tw series has ever seen.

[MaximianusBR]

Hopefully m2 will prove our doom and gloom concerns to be wrong, but either way, I don't see the modding community stopping their work. As new and unique ideas keep coming out, the tw community will continue to flourish.

And even if ai and realism concerns aren't adressed, somebody will change them, and we'll end up with the greatest mod the tw series has ever seen.

Totally agree...they said it will be modable...so we can get cold...

[Duke John]

CA had said that R:TW would have been very moddeable. We trusted them and hoped for the best. 2 years later, we still do not have a single official modding tool. CA is keeping its CAS tool private to avoid letting the technology fall into the hands of concurrents. The only modding support was in the form of a CA employee answering questions when it was quiet on the office.

CA said that M2:TW will be very moddeable and will receive at least the same modding support as R:TW. The fans rejoice as this is the dawn of a new era! Forget about that we were unable to even touch the important files without creating a community tool. Forget that we are still stuck with a buggy and incomplete model and animation tool. Forget that CA introduced in R:TW artificial limits for us to discover. Rejoice! We cannot demand anything, for we are consumers who will buy regardless!

:shame:

[MaximianusBR]

CA had said that R:TW would have been very moddeable. We trusted them and hoped for the best. 2 years later, we still do not have a single official modding tool. CA is keeping its CAS tool private to avoid letting the technology fall into the hands of concurrents. The only modding support was in the form of a CA employee answering questions when it was quiet on the office.

CA said that M2:TW will be very moddeable and will receive at least the same modding support as R:TW. The fans rejoice as this is the dawn of a new era! Forget about that we were unable to even touch the important files without creating a community tool. Forget that we are still stuck with a buggy and incomplete model and animation tool. Forget that CA introduced in R:TW artificial limits for us to discover. Rejoice! We cannot demand anything, for we are consumers who will buy regardless!

:shame:

we can just wait and see...maybe this time they extent the artificial limits, and reduce the buggability...:sweatdrop:

[Orda Khan]

Did you really expect them to be playable ?? :inquisitive:
The game starts around 1080 AD and there are no periods. Naturally they won't be playable.
Just like MTW they will pop up when the time is due. Same with the Timurids.
Was that not one of the disappointments in MTW? Everyone knew when the Horde was going to arrive and prepared their armies ready to meet them? I did not want to see that happen again.
Since we are re-writing history, why should we have to wait until early 13thC for the Mongols to appear? There is no reason IMO why I should not pick the Mongol faction and appear in Europe at the start period

.........Orda

[Lucjan]

..valid point..

[MaximianusBR]

Was that not one of the disappointments in MTW? Everyone knew when the Horde was going to arrive and prepared their armies ready to meet them? I did not want to see that happen again.
Since we are re-writing history, why should we have to wait until early 13thC for the Mongols to appear? There is no reason IMO why I should not pick the Mongol faction and appear in Europe at the start period

.........Orda

don't agree...it would totally destroy game historical accuracy...:skull:

[AntiochusIII]

don't agree...it would totally destroy game historical accuracy...:skull:I prefer the term, historical plausibility. :2thumbsup:

Interesting map. I hope we'll see a newer version soon. Looks too much like RTW, but hey, alpha, low-res. What do I expect? It's not even beta.

Anyway, quite a doom and gloom thread. The modding part was sad--that was one of the actual things that actually riled me up a lil' bit. Artificial limits in the engine that are illegal to break should not be there because it has no reason to be there...except for laziness. What marketing benefits do they have? None that is! Protection from rivals? They'll just hack the hardcoded part off anyway! In secret! And for what purpose? None that is!

I hope the Creative Assembly will be interested in a different marketing approach than the apparently (emphasized as it's just guessing on my part) current mainstream-go approach. A creation of a cult-level devoted fan group is an effective tool of longevity and stability for a gaming company that wants to be there at the end of the day. Look at Paradox. It's (sometimes quite even more whiny and nitpicky than us around here; of course there's an overlap in fandom too...) fans will buy just about anything it is sending out with an implicit trust in quality, despite a disparaging, serious lack of graphical appeal of the general Paradox games, and the generally "beta" feel its games, on the first (buggy) market day, have. And their businesses, I assume (because I have no industry figures whatsoever) are quite strong. They have even launched a new downloading portal quite a while ago, allying itself with a few other smaller companies, and seeking new indy talent (M&B) along the way. An expansion venture if nothing else.

I hope CA plays it this way. We'll get quality games (of course, that is my sole intention :) ) and they'll get a strong fanbase to fall back to when the fad goes away or the industry in trouble. A mutually beneficial relationship, instead of just throwing themselves at graphical efforts (which, by any means, have been an increasing workload in the development process lately, isn't it?) just to sell to a fickle general market while alienating its firmest, if whiniest, fanbase.

*dreams, float, flies away, meet virgins in heaven, which, of course, remain virgins. Duh.*

[TB666]

Was that not one of the disappointments in MTW? Everyone knew when the Horde was going to arrive and prepared their armies ready to meet them?

.........Orda
Yes it was because we knew the exact date they would arrive thus could prepare for it and thus removed what is should be a fun element.
I hope their arrival will be dynamic in MTW2 so you can't tell when they will arrive.
I'm not against you modding them in since it is your game and you may play as you please. Just shocked since this is the first time I have seen someone that thought they were playable. Most people already know that they wont be since they wasn't in MTW1(not if you play the early era first which is pretty much what you will be doing in MTW2).

[Lucjan]

..I think I'll write a polite, if futile, letter to ca and see if we can't get some of our concerns adressed.

[Lord Adherbal]

maybe we could capture some australian tourists and then make our demands public on television

[MaximianusBR]

words of wisdom from AntiochusIII:
"*dreams, float, flies away, meet virgins in heaven, which, of course, remain virgins. Duh.*"
:laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:

[Lucjan]

Adherbal']maybe we could capture some australian tourists and then make our demands public on television

While that would most certainly be entertaining, that just might land "The Org" on the international terrorist organization watch list, and we'd somehow become misinterpreted as a united front of political rebels bent on world domination. ....not that they'd be wrong about that. But lets not blow our cover too early, we still haven't acquired the 'secret weapon'.

[magnum]

Sides, based on the mind set of the few Aussies I've met in life, they'd probably think it was fun and inquire as to when they could do it again. Would ruin the whole threatening atmosphere you know.

Anyway, what was the OT? :wall:

[ChewieTobbacca]

As a compromise with having fewer regions, perhaps make it so the user can build his own castles (a'la forts in RTW) that start off as simple wooden keeps and can be upgraded - though very expensive. Would make it so that regions are harder to take - but can be coutnerbalanced by making it so that certain upgrades can only be built on terrain where there is enough free space to be buit (so no one can build a giant fortress in the middle of a small pass). Would certainly add to the feudal atmosphere, especially the early age.

[Ignoramus]

Sides, based on the mind set of the few Aussies I've met in life, they'd probably think it was fun and inquire as to when they could do it again. Would ruin the whole threatening atmosphere you know.

Anyway, what was the OT? :wall:

I know, I'm one.

[Mooks]

Im definetely not buying this game unless it has a kickass demo.

Though if I do buy it, I hope it will allow us to build those castles like lord of the rings :book: .

[Herkus]

I hoped that map will contain Central Asia, Iran for Timurid and Mongol faction.
At least map textures look better than RTW ones.

[MaximianusBR]

I hoped that map will contain Central Asia, Iran for Timurid and Mongol faction.

it'll not be included...map will end in the midle of caspian sea as in RTW...
This two faction will not be playable and will appear in the map as hordes....

[bozkirsovalyesi]

MY RECOMMENDATİONS MAP:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=62945

[sunsmountain]

Yes bozkir, nice maps...


Perhaps we can program a different game. Not now, but in the future, when things will be different.

[Mooks]

Quit TW games for a while. Come back in 5 years and see if its improved...

[SirGrotius]

Thanks for the link. Somehow I don't expect these to be the final maps--it's just too similar to RTW. I don't think they look bad, just too similar.

[TinCow]

I like those victory conditions. The number of regions you need to hold is surprisingly small (we're used to 50!) but the precise ones chosen seem very ambitious for England. And the "outlive..." condition is very characterful (apologies to my French friends ~:grouphug: ).

I think you'll find that 14 isn't the right number. I'm looking at the screenshot and that looks like 45 regions to me.

[ChewieTobbacca]

It defenitely says 45

[econ21]

Don't worry about me - I'm either losing my sight or my mind; probably both. 45 is a much more sensible number than 14.

[Grifman]

So much drama, so little time . . .

[Duke John]

Such a waste of time . . .

[Lucjan]

Oh ye half the forum of little faith...I don't blame you, but I like my denial. I'm hoping their alpha stage pics increase three fold by the release date.

[Fwapper]

I really like the look of that papal standing thing. Hopefully the pope will actually be able to back up one faction who have sucked up to them - rather than just trigger happy excommunication.

[B-Wing]

Papal funding would be sweet. The only way I can remember the Papacy actually helping a player in MTW was by giving you some cash if you had a lot of bishops. I'm not sure if, historically, the Pope ever financially supported any wars, but if they did, then it would be nice to see this in M2TW.

[TB666]

rather than just trigger happy excommunication.
And I hope this time it actually does anything.
It seemed so pointless in MTW1.
It was in fact annoying since I kept getting the message every 5th turn or so.
In the end you just wanna shout at your computer that the pope should do something or shut the hell up.

[The Spartan (Returns)]

i like that map. but it looks TOO much like RTW.

[BeeSting]

Notice the clear distinction between mountains and level grounds? I think in MTW2 you won't have to fight on 45 degree slopes.