"This is America. When Ordering Please Speak English" - a steak joint vs the PC crowd

[GeneralHankerchief]

For about the past week, my local paper (the Philadelphia Inquirer) has really ran on a story about the local cheesesteak joint, Geno's Steaks (a famous establishment) putting up a sign that says "This is America. When Ordering Please Speak English." Out come the PCers. Cue local uproar.

Fast-forward about a week. The LA Times picked up on it and ran a story. As did CBS news. This stupid little story has now become national.

Story (http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-cheesesteak14jun14,0,7448488.story?coll=la-home-headlines)

(somewhat long article)

PHILADELPHIA — The sign contains just eight words and is hardly big enough to wrap around a cheesesteak. But here in South Philadelphia, home of the cheesesteak, the sign that Joey Vento posted at Geno's Steaks speaks volumes.

It reads: "This Is America. When Ordering Please Speak English."

Vento, whose Italian grandparents arrived in America unable to speak English, faces a discrimination complaint from the city's Commission on Human Relations, which said the English-only sign may violate city laws.

At a time when illegal immigration has become a divisive national issue, the tiny sign above the bright orange tile at a local culinary institution has sharpened the debate in a neighborhood founded by Italian immigrants. Though some civic leaders are appalled, many Geno's customers insist that everyone in America should speak English — and express themselves freely.

"Hey, what happened to freedom of speech?" customer Al Buck asked Tuesday, clutching a hot cheesesteak and sporting a T-shirt with a red, white and blue message: "Welcome to America — Now Speak English."

Vento, 66, has said the sign is aimed at illegal immigrants in a community where the Mexican population has grown in recent years. He told the Associated Press on Monday that the sign would remain, even if the city fined him. "They would have to handcuff me and take me out because I'm not taking it down," he said.

City Councilman James F. Kenney has called the sign "divisive and mean-spirited," not to mention "bad for the neighborhood and bad for tourism." The Philadelphia Convention and Visitors Bureau, concerned about the city's image, reminded everyone that the city values immigrants' "culture, vibrancy and history."

A Philadelphia Inquirer editorial called Vento's policies "boneheaded," which may explain why he is no longer speaking to the newspaper, or any newspaper.

"The papers twisted his words," said his son, Geno Vento, who was working the counter at lunchtime Tuesday.

Joey Vento was taking the day off, his son said, "resting his vocal cords" after a marathon round of TV interviews. Asked for a comment, Geno Vento replied, "This whole thing is getting out of hand."

The Commission on Human Relations will determine whether the sign violates the city's Fair Practices Act, said City Solicitor Romulo L. Diaz. If so, Diaz said, the city code calls for fines or imprisonment for failure to comply — though the commission normally tries to resolve issues without sanctions.

The local ACLU chapter has staked out a middle ground. "Putting up a sign saying you need to speak English is protected speech," said Mary Catherine Roper, an ACLU staff attorney in Philadelphia. But refusing service based on language or nationality would violate the law, she said.

Anthony Marconni, who was helping Geno Vento serve steaming cheesesteaks, said no customer had been turned away. "We serve everybody. We're not discriminating against anybody," Marconni said.

Back when Joey Vento was speaking to newspapers, he told the Inquirer that illegal Mexican immigrants had brought diseases and crime, and were a drain on hospitals and schools.

It's "wrong, wrong, wrong that a Mexican girl comes here to pop a baby," the paper quoted Vento as saying.

He added: "I say what everybody's thinking but is afraid to say."

Vento, who has "Geno's Steaks" tattooed on his arm, has posted "Speak English" signs on his Hummer. According to the Inquirer, he has driven through South Philadelphia with a public-address system, chastising businesses that hire illegal immigrants.

Vento said the sign, which he posted about six months ago, was intended to improve communication. "If you can't tell me what you want, I can't serve you," he said.

For the uninitiated, a cheesesteak is a cholesterol-delivery device consisting of grilled strips of beef, melted cheese, onions and peppers on an Italian roll.

It is sometimes difficult for outsiders to order at Geno's or other local cheesesteak emporiums because of an unspoken code that requires ordering "wid" or "widout," meaning with or without onions. (One newcomer once asked "Wid what?" and was told, "Wid cheese, stoopid!") One must also specify the cheese — Cheez Wiz or provolone, as in "Cheez Wiz wid."

Given those customs, ordering a "bistec con queso" is not likely to elicit cooperation.

"Why can't they go to school and learn English?" asked Penny Constantino, 78, who told Geno Vento that the sign was too small and should be "more like 10 feet by 10 feet."

Constantino, a lifelong resident of South Philadelphia, said her neighborhood had been swamped by Mexican immigrants. "They're here for years, and they still won't learn English," she said, chewing on a cheesesteak wid.

Over the last quarter-century, South Philadelphia has been transformed from an Italian-American enclave to a melting pot of whites, blacks, Vietnamese, Cambodians and Latinos. Next door to Geno's is a Vietnamese-owned hoagie shop. Two doors down is La Lupe, a taqueria that serves $2 grilled pork tacos. There were two diners at La Lupe at lunchtime Tuesday, and a smattering of customers at the hoagie shop.

The line at Geno's spilled into the street and blocked the sidewalk, serenaded by speakers that played "God Bless America" and the Marine Corps hymn. Several customers said they dropped by Tuesday to have a look at the sign. It was difficult to spot amid the photos of celebrities who have downed Geno's cheesesteaks (Bill Clinton, Rudolph Giuliani, Shaquille O'Neal); police and firefighter badges; and patriotic posters, including one with the words "Proud to Be an American."

Lan Le, 38, a Newport Beach resident who was gnawing on a Geno's cheesesteak, said she spoke no English when she arrived in the U.S. from Vietnam at age 11. Her husband, Roman Le, said he spoke no English when he arrived from Germany at age 6.

"If people come to America, they ought to learn English, like I did," Lan Le said.

Her husband added: "I had to learn it. It's not that hard."

Natasha Milosevich, who came to the U.S. from Yugoslavia 35 years ago, said she dined at Geno's to show her support.

"This guy is being crucified for saying something a lot of us believe," Milosevich said. "This is a free country. If you don't like the sign, you can go back home."

I'm going to wait for some of your opinions on this before I sound off. I'd especially like to hear the thoughts of any locals who know how to order properly.

[Proletariat]

I don't care alot about the english issue personally, it's more of a sign of boorishness and just being an imbecile to live in a country for eight years and not bother to learn the language. The real issue with immigrants is the surging wage depression and widescale tax fraud of course, but honestly- if Gino likes it, I loves it.

Anyone who's had a Steak n Cheese there will understand. :2thumbsup:

[rory_20_uk]

Damnit - America voted that English was its prime language as opposed to French (one man can make a difference).

It's bad enough we have to bend over backwards in hospitals dealing with people that in some extreme cases think that merely being in the country for FOURTY YEARS doesn't mean they need to learn English. No, we've not got time to mime everything that may be causing problems.

When I go abroad admittedly I speak English. The deal is that I am giving hard currency to their economy, so they can earn it - if they don't want it, I'll find a vendor that does.

~:smoking:

[InsaneApache]

Why on Earth does'n't anyone want to learn English. After all it is the 'Lingua Franca pour le Monde'. :laugh4:

[Kanamori]

Forcing people to be friendly is stupid. Anyway, it's not like they're missing anything but a garishly dressed and oversized hot dog bun.

[solypsist]

maybe those sandwich makers need to move their business to a part of town where only english speakers live - god knows they'll take money from people who can't speak english begrudgingly yet can't seem to accomodate their customers even a tiny bit.

people who dont speak english in communities where english is the majority language don't get very far in life - they're apparently forced to eat at slophouses, for starters. so for anyone seeking a "punishment" for someone "coming over here and not getting 'with it'", well, there it is.

if you don't want to be involved with people who don't speak english in america then the best plan is to get rich and move the heck out of there and stop b******* about being too poor to eat and/or work at better places where language isn't an issue. i've never had a language issue, do you know why? because i work hard and can afford to live where i want and eat where i want where little annoyances like people from somewhere-else who i would normally have nothing in common with aren't part of my daily life.

[Proletariat]

Somehow I think Geno can afford to live where he wants. Maybe he thinks other immigrants were capable of what his family was when they came over.

[Crazed Rabbit]

City Councilman James F. Kenney has called the sign "divisive and mean-spirited,"

When that is no longer legal, it is time to begin the revolution.

Crazed Rabbit

[Louis VI the Fat]

What's so hard about learning the local language? Gaining a decent command of English may be a fiendish task for a sixty year old Vietnamese to accomplish. But if you're Spanish it is not that bloody hard, eh? So you'll never be the next James Joyce, but how long can it take to live in America and know how to order a steak in English? :wall:



When I go abroad admittedly I speak English. The deal is that I am giving hard currency to their economy, so they can earn it - if they don't want it, I'll find a vendor that does.
Yes, but you're a tourist then. I'm not going to take a two year language course in Czech when planning a spring break in Prague either.

If I was going to live there indefinately I would.

[Xiahou]

As someone who's eaten there(check that, I ate at Pat's across the street), I have no problem with the sign at all. It's a very busy place and my guess is he doesnt want lines being held up by not being able to understand orders from non-english speakers. It fits in perfectly with the rest of the signage and the attitude of the place.

If you dont like it, dont eat there- I think they'll get by without your business. :wink:


If ordering from one of the famous establishments, they insist that you be prepared to state your order, and have your money in hand, or go to the end of the line [18] (and patrons of Geno's are encouraged to "Speak English" when ordering[17]). The requested language is to state the quantity, the type of cheese, and then "wit" or "witout" to indicate fried onions on the sandwich. A common order is "Whiz wit", a cheesesteak with Cheez Whiz, served with fried onions. It is not called "Whiz with", as the guttural South Philadelphia Italian-immigrant pronunciation actually appears on menus—ordering otherwise brands one as an outsider or tourist. Lines for the sandwiches can extend into the streets on certain nights, especially after a sports event at one of the major Philadelphia stadiums, thus showing the need for a rapid ordering system.........

[Tribesman]

I'd especially like to hear the thoughts of any locals who know how to order properly.

Now that would be interesting , how do you order in proper english when they request that you order in gibberish .
It is not called "Whiz with", as the guttural South Philadelphia Italian-immigrant pronunciation actually appears on menus—ordering otherwise brands one as an outsider or tourist.
Damn immigrants cannot even speak English eh , don't you just hate it when these immigrants come over and change things:laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:

[Xiahou]

Again, its their choice. If he expects you to order in a series of clicks and whistles, it's no one's concern but his. If his decision hurts his business (the sign in question certainly isnt), then he has to live with that choice.

[solypsist]

that's right. this is a two way street.
/end thread



Again, its their choice. If he expects you to order in a series of clicks and whistles, it's no one's concern but his. If his decision hurts his business (the sign in question certainly isnt), then he has to live with that choice.

[_Martyr_]

It strikes me as more than a little unfair to any visiting tourist...

[GoreBag]

I just like how the sign is grammatically incorrect.

[solypsist]

i suppose it could be worse:
http://www.casadice.com/signs/index.htm

casa d'ice guy uses his restaurant sign as a means of venting...

[GeneralHankerchief]

Ok, a couple of comments.

First of all, Geno's is pretty much packed 24/7. They have an extremely efficient ordering system in place. You go up to the window, and say two words: The type of cheese, and whether your steak will be "wit" or "widout" onions. Example: "Wiz, widout." If you order improperly ("Yeah, hi, can I have a steak with some Cheeze Wiz, but no onions please? Oh wait, let me go through my wallet to get the money... do you take fifties?") you will be moved to the back of the line.

Geno's, along with Pat's across the street, sacrifices individual customer accomodation for making sure that everyone gets their food quickly. Considering that these places have been in establishment for decades, it is apparent that their strategy works.

When you think about it, foreigners wishing to eat at Geno's really only have to learn five words- and they need absolutely no grammar either. The only communication you will have with the person at the window is "Wiz", "American", "Provolone", "wit", and "widout." That's pretty much it. Is that so much to ask? Personally I think that anybody who can't learn five words is either extremely lazy or have really low mental capacity. Also, the ordering style is so different to pretty much every American outside of third-generation South Philadelphians it's kind of everybody learning a new language.

I think the laws of business apply here. If you want their steak badly enough, you're going to have to work harder in order to get it. If not, Geno's has plenty of other customers who can take your place.


Anyway, it's not like they're missing anything but a garishly dressed and oversized hot dog bun.

I'm going to pretend I didn't read that. :shame:

[Papewaio]

Steak by itself, anything extra is to hide the taste of a substandard product.

[Devastatin Dave]

It strikes me as more than a little unfair to any visiting tourist...
Believe it or not, that's what I thought when I read this. What about someone from another country, visiting as on vacation (or holiday as the cousins say)? I'm glad when I was in Korea the folks there put up with my ignorance towards their language of course $ is an international language ya know.:laugh4:
But seriously, what about folks from other countries wanting to try out a cheese steak and not knowing the language. You know I'm not exactly a PC police guy, but all joking aside is he going after citizens that don't speak the language or all folks that don't speak English. Besides how the heck is some guy from Phillie know how to speak English in the first place!!!:laugh4:
Baddabing-badda-boom... Yo Adriaaaaaaaan!!!:laugh4:

[GeneralHankerchief]

You make some good points, Dave. You should try arguing on the left more often. :laugh4:

I know Pat's has a section on its website titled "How to Order" - maybe the steak joints should have something like that up on the actual store location (maybe they already do, can't remember off the top of my head, any locals want to help me out?).


but all joking aside is he going after citizens that don't speak the language

Actually I think it's aimed at illegal immigrants more than tourists. Now correct me if I'm wrong but you do not consider illegals to be citizens, right?

[Divinus Arma]

Its his store. He has the right to do as he pleases and lose the business if he so desires.

I'm with Crazed Rabbit on this one.

[Marshal Murat]

God bless him.
The whole problem is the illegal immigrants paranoia.
Everyone south of Missouri is in a huff about a "invasion"
I'll allow them to have their own television shows, radios, whatever.
But if I go into a store, and they automatically speak in Spanish, I'm going to get a passport to Canada (I've got a very nice American accent)

[GoreBag]

(I've got a very nice American accent)

We don't take kindly to those.

[Papewaio]

We don't take kindly to those.

And the rest of the world can tell the difference between a north/midwest american and a canadian with as much ease as they can tell the difference between an australian and a kiwi...

[Avicenna]

What a classic. They put up a sign in English to tell those who don't understand it to speak it? :laugh4:

Anyway, nobody will bother to learn a whole language to buy hot dogs, common sense should have told them that.

[doc_bean]

Maybe he should have put up a sign with the basic translations ?

I don't think they'll like European tourists much, we tend to be slower when it comes to food related activitities...

[InsaneApache]

Welcome back Dave, I see your parole came good. :laugh4:

[English assassin]

For the uninitiated, a cheesesteak is a cholesterol-delivery device consisting of grilled strips of beef, melted cheese, onions and peppers on an Italian roll.

It is sometimes difficult for outsiders to order at Geno's or other local cheesesteak emporiums because of an unspoken code that requires ordering "wid" or "widout," meaning with or without onions. (One newcomer once asked "Wid what?" and was told, "Wid cheese, stoopid!") One must also specify the cheese — Cheez Wiz or provolone, as in "Cheez Wiz wid."

Given those customs, ordering a "bistec con queso" is not likely to elicit cooperation

LoL

Geno's don't have to please me with the way they run their business, seeing as i won't be going back to Philly any time soon owning to a little misunderstanding with a mad aunt and her psychotic son who live there. And if I want to kill myself I'll find a more enjoyable way to do it than eating cheesesteak.

But for what its worth I don't see how he can be expected to accept people trying to order in spanish if he doesn't want to, although he could try to be a little nicer about it. And if any business tried this whole "wid/widout" you're-not-from-round-here nonsense on me he'd find I was heading off "wid" my dollars to some place not run by a complete knob, but again, that's his choice.

[_Martyr_]

Believe it or not, that's what I thought when I read this. What about someone from another country, visiting as on vacation (or holiday as the cousins say)? I'm glad when I was in Korea the folks there put up with my ignorance towards their language of course $ is an international language ya know.:laugh4:
But seriously, what about folks from other countries wanting to try out a cheese steak and not knowing the language. You know I'm not exactly a PC police guy, but all joking aside is he going after citizens that don't speak the language or all folks that don't speak English. Besides how the heck is some guy from Phillie know how to speak English in the first place!!!:laugh4:
Baddabing-badda-boom... Yo Adriaaaaaaaan!!!:laugh4:


Wow, Dave... I believe this is actually the first time weve ever agreed on anything...:idea2: :laugh4:

[Idaho]

I think if he had phrased it:

"please speak english when ordering"

rather than:

"This is American, please speak english when ordering"

It would have been a lot less hostile. Not that 'wid' or 'wiz' is in any way related to the noble english language. And from the sounds of it, not that it is in any way related to good food.

[rory_20_uk]

Not that 'wid' or 'wiz' is in any way related to the noble english language. And from the sounds of it, not that it is in any way related to good food.

:laugh4: :thumbsup:

~:smoking:

[Lemur]

When [a divisive and mean-spirited sign] is no longer legal, it is time to begin the revolution.
Goodness gracious, I find myself in complete agreement with the rabid rabbit. A sign of the end times?

[yesdachi]

Cough cough marketing cough cough.

They knew it would get a rise out of some people and that is why it was done in a less PC maner (That and probably some personal frustration) but look at all the attention they are getting. Cha-Ching!

Plus, it sounds like the lines are always there; if you have questions about the ordering system just ask the person next to you.

[_Martyr_]

Bubba, a furniture dealer in West Virginia, wanted to expand the line of furniture in his store. Although he had never traveled outside the USA, he decided to go to Paris to get some ideas. After arriving in the French city he met with some manufacturers and selected a line that he thought would sell well back home.
To celebrate the new acquisition he visited a small bistro and had a glass of wine. The small place was quite crowded, and he noticed that the other chair at his table was the only vacant seat in the house.
Before long, a very beautiful young Parisian girl came to his table, asked him something in French (which he did not understand), and motioned toward the chair. He invited her to sit down.
He tried to speak to her in English, but she did not speak his language, so after a couple of minutes of trying to communicate, he took a napkin, drew a picture of a wine glass and showed it to her. She nodded, and he ordered a glass of wine for her. After sitting together at the table for a while, he took another napkin and drew a picture of a plate with food on it, and she nodded. They left the bistro and found a quiet cafe that featured a small group playing romantic music. They ordered dinner, after which he took another napkin and drew a picture of a couple dancing. She nodded, and they got up to dance. They danced until the cafe closed and the band was packing up. Back at their table the young lady took a napkin and drew a picture of a four-poster bed.
To this day, Bubba has no idea how she figured out he was in the furniture business.


Suppose there is something to be said about learning the language afterall... :laugh4:

[Devastatin Dave]

Good one Martyr!!!:laugh4:

[doc_bean]

Either way he would have nodded yes, wouldn't he ?

Go Bubba !

[GeneralHankerchief]

Excellent joke. Mind if I put it in the Frontroom joke thread?

[Tachikaze]

I deal with foreign people every day in my life. I accommodate them the best I can. If I absolutely can't understand their speech, I find another way to communicate. It's not my job to tell them what language they should speak.

I wonder what Geno's does with people who are mute. Tell them to leave?

If I were a patron of Geno's and I saw that sign, I would go, instead, to a taco shop and order in Spanish. The people at my local taco shop are much kinder.

[_Martyr_]

yeah sure go ahead...

[Brenus]

“When I go abroad admittedly I speak English. The deal is that I am giving hard currency to their economy, so they can earn it - if they don't want it, I'll find a vendor that does.”
I have a different approach. When I go abroad, learn immediately to say please, thank you and good bye. It makes things easy, and can save some money as well. Try it…
I knew somebody like you. Well, she ended the evening without her meal, the waiter ignoring her demands. I couldn’t stop laughing… In some places money is still not able to buy every thing.:oops:

[_Martyr_]

I have to agree with Brenus, when Im visiting other countries I make an effort to learn at very least a few basic phraises and after that, when people see I have made an effort, they usually go out of their way to help out. Also, making it clear Im neither English or American can usually get you some love, especially in France! ;)

[Proletariat]

I wonder what Geno's does with people who are mute. Tell them to leave?


Good point, because we all know Hispanics aren't actually capable of learning to speak english.

:dizzy2:

[Kanamori]

About at the same place where the sign limited it to Hispanics. He's either too panzy to put what he means on the sign, or just doesn't know that his communication skills are south-philidelphian and far below normal abilities.

[Devastatin Dave]

I say let the market dictate this decision. If he loses business because of his choice in patronage, then so be it. I'm not trying to sound like some sort of internationalist hippy, I just think certain situation would dictate that he needs to accommodate someone who doesn't speak English or as was pointed out earlier, mute. If someone comes here on vacation we should do our best to make them feel at home, we don't want to be like the Parisians!!:laugh4:
I would have less of a problem if before the person could order, they have to show their ID or proof that they were in the legally. Its his business and there's no reason for him to have to run it the way others think he should run it. Freedom fries anyone?:2thumbsup:

[Tribesman]

when Im visiting other countries I make an effort to learn at very least a few basic phraises and after that, when people see I have made an effort, they usually go out of their way to help out.
Yeah and despite what the guide boks tell ya , don't speak French in Morocco , especailly Casablanca

[Major Robert Dump]

Not the nicest wording, but it is his business. Private businesses should be able to "discriminate" against whoever they want, as it is their business that will suffer or prosper as a result. It's no different than night clubs who stop letting in men because they want more women inside, or restraunts who don't allow in people who don't meet a dress code etc

[InsaneApache]

As a businessman, I'm at a loss to this attitude, surely all custom is money. Personally it wouldn't bother me if they were sky-blue-pink as long as I got their cash. The mans obviously a moron.

[Major Robert Dump]

I don't know Insane, where he loses customers who dont agree with him politically (or who dont speak english lol) he also gains cool points with customers who do agree with him politically or don't like being held up in line.

When I was doing retail management if a customer needed a translator and I had one readily available, then so be it. But if my translator was someone who was occupied with other customers/tasks then it becomes robbing peter to pay paul, and at that point its best to just blow the customer off. I'm not going to close a busy cashier line and take the cashier to the other end of the store to translate for the lady trying to buy meat at the deli.

Whats more, the non-english customer will come to expect such treatment each visit. We're not talking about accomodating handicapped or old people, we're talking about people who don't want to learn the frikkin words for "Two pounds Swiss Cheese." Screw them everytime, especially in busy, fast paced establishments.

[Crazed Rabbit]

Goodness gracious, I find myself in complete agreement with the rabid rabbit. A sign of the end times?

Welcome to the poorly-lit-due-to-being-in-underground-tunnels side!

Crazed Rabbit

PS. My crazyness is not due to rabies, thank you very much. ~;p

[Papewaio]

Private businesses should be able to "discriminate" against whoever they want, as it is their business that will suffer or prosper as a result.

I think you are drawing to large a brush with "discriminate" against whoever they want. If they started discrminating against people based on race or creed would that be acceptable?

What happens to the newly arrived immigrant trying to learn English, is it okay to discriminate against them or a refugee?

[Kaiser of Arabia]

Personally I like Tony Luke's better, but I think that this is within his rights, PCers be damned. If you don't beleive in free speech, go to North Korea. HEAR THAT CITY COUNCIL?

[Divinus Arma]

Here is something REALLY funny. It is one of plans to learn spanish once I finish the MBA, and before I start the MPA. So I try to pick up a little here and there and use it when I can. So I go into a Mexican restaruant and order my meal entirely en espanol: "Porfavor Senor, Yo Quero un burrito no mas con pollo e queso. E un horchata grande." What does the little bugger do? Rattles off some espanol 100 miles an hour with a smug look the entire time. When I answer: "Hablo muy poquito espanol, I am learning." He then shakes his head in disgust and laughs to himself.

That one really pissed me off. I am never again saying a lick of spanish in casual conversation to a latino until I know the language 100%. Then when somebody calls me a pinchi gringo or bendeho or whatever, then I can tell him that it isn't nice to say such things to customers who are trying to learn the language.

If somebody tells me that "they are learning", then I would be more than happy to help.

[Tribesman]

If you don't beleive in free speech, go to North Korea.
Nah , tried that , they wouldn't give me permission to enter , and when I snuck across the border I found that the wages for undocumented were shite and I couldn't even order fried dog leg unles I knew the local version of not quite Korean , so I high tailed it across the border and ordered a Bargain Bucket *TM in a Koreanish accent .
:juggle2:

[_Martyr_]

Here is something REALLY funny. It is one of plans to learn spanish once I finish the MBA, and before I start the MPA. So I try to pick up a little here and there and use it when I can. So I go into a Mexican restaruant and order my meal entirely en espanol: "Porfavor Senor, Yo Quero un burrito no mas con pollo e queso. E un horchata grande." What does the little bugger do? Rattles off some espanol 100 miles an hour with a smug look the entire time. When I answer: "Hablo muy poquito espanol, I am learning." He then shakes his head in disgust and laughs to himself.

That one really pissed me off. I am never again saying a lick of spanish in casual conversation to a latino until I know the language 100%. Then when somebody calls me a pinchi gringo or bendeho or whatever, then I can tell him that it isn't nice to say such things to customers who are trying to learn the language.

If somebody tells me that "they are learning", then I would be more than happy to help.


Well that guy was just an ass. As someone who is bilingual, my advise to you is not to be disheartened by one bad experience that may have shook your confidence. Mixing with native speakers is pretty much the only way that you're ever going to get to a fluency level. Dont let one bad apple spoil it for you. It does go to show you though how difficult it is to learn a language if people discourage you. Maybe if the cheese steak joint owner was a little friendlier, he might actually encourage/teach immigrants a word or two instead of just being an unwelcoming asshole in the same way your waiter could have encouraged/taught you some new vocabulary!

[PanzerJaeger]

Originally Posted by Divinus Arma
Here is something REALLY funny. It is one of plans to learn spanish once I finish the MBA, and before I start the MPA. So I try to pick up a little here and there and use it when I can. So I go into a Mexican restaruant and order my meal entirely en espanol: "Porfavor Senor, Yo Quero un burrito no mas con pollo e queso. E un horchata grande." What does the little bugger do? Rattles off some espanol 100 miles an hour with a smug look the entire time. When I answer: "Hablo muy poquito espanol, I am learning." He then shakes his head in disgust and laughs to himself.

That one really pissed me off. I am never again saying a lick of spanish in casual conversation to a latino until I know the language 100%. Then when somebody calls me a pinchi gringo or bendeho or whatever, then I can tell him that it isn't nice to say such things to customers who are trying to learn the language.

If somebody tells me that "they are learning", then I would be more than happy to help.

"People" like that should be put in their place. He probably wasn't even legal.

However, as you progress down a lucrative carreer with your MBA and other degrees, he will always be a pathetic little server who has nothing more to take pride in than his ability to speak his native language and mock "gringos" with paychecks 10 times as big as his will ever be.

[rotorgun]

I think if he had phrased it:

"please speak english when ordering"

rather than:

"This is American, please speak english when ordering"

It would have been a lot less hostile. Not that 'wid' or 'wiz' is in any way related to the noble english language. And from the sounds of it, not that it is in any way related to good food.
Maybe he should have put up a sign underneath that one in Spanish:
Si te quiere un "Wiz", ordero en Inglese por favor. Con queso, dice "wit", sin queso, dice "widout". Gracias para su participacion en la cultura Americana. Si te no habla la lingua Ingles, no comida para usted.

Gracias,
El Dueno

In Tennessee we would say, how about one of them there "Wiz" thingamjigs?
Answer: Yessir!
Could you please add some cheese and onions?
Answer: Yessir!
Thanks. How much please? etc.

[AntiochusIII]

"People" like that should be put in their place. He probably wasn't even legal.

However, as you progress down a lucrative carreer with your MBA and other degrees, he will always be a pathetic little server who has nothing more to take pride in than his ability to speak his native language and mock "gringos" with paychecks 10 times as big as his will ever be.Wondrous. So that is "their place," huh?

:dizzy2:

How about some respect for humanity? A smug does not a slave make.

[Tachikaze]

That one really pissed me off. I am never again saying a lick of spanish in casual conversation to a latino until I know the language 100%. Then when somebody calls me a pinchi gringo or bendeho or whatever, then I can tell him that it isn't nice to say such things to customers who are trying to learn the language.
Hey, Redleg, he's generalizing! Where's your rebuff?

What? Oh, you only criticize liberals for generalizing! I get it!

Divinus:
Now you know how second-language-English-speakers feel when they try to speak English in steakhouses run by intolerant people.

[Divinus Arma]

Divinus:
Now you know how second-language-English-speakers feel when they try to speak English in steakhouses run by intolerant people.

That's where you show your bias, hippy.

I respectfully engaged them in thier own language and the ass made fun of me for trying. Being in an area filled with latinos, I am fully capable of articulating the lingual nuances of espanol, thus I did not come across as: "you kee- aireeo uno borritto no moth con po-ell-o ee kay so, ee un hor-chatter grandee." :laugh4: Which, I am certain, is the case whn ordering "steeek e queso"

Hablo puquito, no ningun espanol. Si comprende cabron? Pinche rebelde del socialista. :laugh4:

espanol es funny

btw: Mexico v. Angola 0-0 !!!! loloolololol WTF?!?!?!?

[AntiochusIII]

Actually, DA, being a second-language-English-speaker myself I think you are self-victimizing yourself too much. It's especially hard in my situation around two years ago when I arrived in the United States not because people around me are asses but because they cannot--could not, at least, now they surely could, what's with my little own total immersion transition period effectively complete and a properly American liberal-hippie-commie as a product--understand me, which causes an awkward situation time and again when they try to be polite (most, at least) while telling me they don't understand a word I'm trying to communicate.

However, because they are nice, I was neither offended nor angered, instead, I felt shame, which is natural. Now I am friends with most of those same people. Nonetheless, there are asses out there who did laugh at my accented English (when it was heavily accented) and act like your anecdotal waiter but I did not generalize all Americans as asses who laugh at those who cannot speak fluent American English. In fact, I wasn't even angry at them, understanding as I am of the natural workings of human humor.

Just because one ass who speaks a language used by millions happens to laugh at your beginning speech does not mean you can just go out and generalize (well, technically you can, but it's a figure of speech) them out like that. Remember that commercial "stereotyping is bad?"

As of the topic, I suppose insensitive and mean-spirited does not equal a violation of the law. Of course, "this is America," as pointed out, is an elitist statement, extraneous and elitist. But what the hell. People have opinions, nice or not nice. And it's his business, literally, so unless he starts the National Capitalist Party of America (Against Hispanics) or Mothers Against Mexicans organizations I'd not go overboard like the council in the article. :book:

*I apologize with the liberal using of the word "ass" to describe a behavior of individuals; I assume the general tone of the statement, the "ordinary" usage of the word as opposed to exclusively expletive, and the fact that it does not attack anyone in particular with that descriptive characterization, does not make for a violation material.

[Tachikaze]

That's where you show your bias, hippy.

I respectfully engaged them in thier own language and the ass made fun of me for trying. Being in an area filled with latinos, I am fully capable of articulating the lingual nuances of espanol, thus I did not come across as: "you kee- aireeo uno borritto no moth con po-ell-o ee kay so, ee un hor-chatter grandee." :laugh4: Which, I am certain, is the case whn ordering "steeek e queso"

Hablo puquito, no ningun espanol. Si comprende cabron? Pinche rebelde del socialista. :laugh4:

espanol es funny

btw: Mexico v. Angola 0-0 !!!! loloolololol WTF?!?!?!?
I think the person who posted the sign at Geno's is cut from the same cloth as the man who insulted you for speaking Spanish.

I have different experiences. Most people that I speak Spanish to are happy for the attempt. Some have no patience, even though my Spanish is not too bad, and respond to me in English.

I have had a couple of people tease me, but their method was to hit me with colloquial Mexican Spanish that I had no knowledge of, then laugh.

[Ja'chyra]

"People" like that should be put in their place. He probably wasn't even legal.

However, as you progress down a lucrative carreer with your MBA and other degrees, he will always be a pathetic little server who has nothing more to take pride in than his ability to speak his native language and mock "gringos" with paychecks 10 times as big as his will ever be.

Long time no see PJ, I see you just came back to troll. :no: