Trait idea for agents

[Kralizec]

One thing that always irked me about spies (and to a lesser degree assasins) was that a spy of a given faction could spy on other factions with the same degree of succes regardless of the culture of the faction being spied on. Realisticly it would be drasticly more difficult for a Roman spy to infiltrate a Carthaginian or even worse a barbarian settlement and build up a network of reliable informants.
So maybe agents and particulary spies and assasins should have a trait "knowledgable about [insert faction]", reflecting that they would best be used against factions that they're accustomed to dealing with. Aditionally agents should have a bonus against factions that are part of the same culture.
For diplomats, there is already a translator anciliary, but the bonus it provides is not faction (or culture) specific. It gives just as much a bonus for Greek vs Macedon wich doesn't make sense.
Is this possible?

[Copperhaired Berserker!]

Nice idea. It would mean that you would have a spy that was extremly good at spying on eg. Aedui, but if he was to spy on another faction, eg. Romani, you would get a penelty for spying on a faction that you are lacking in info about. It would make spying a lot more complex. Also, you could maybe have a trait called "Interested in culture" or something like that, which would reduce the penalty from spying on a faction that you aren't used to, because you at least know a bit of info about the factions.

[Geoffrey S]

Hopefully something like that is possible. Although I'm not convinced that it'd be quite the way you say it is, since the system in RTW is an abstraction and individual spies could represent one controller over a larger network. So I don't think there should be negative consequences for spies in another culture, but there should be advantages given to certain trained spies against certain factions (such as, a trait stating "Germanic origins" and a bonus).

[Kralizec]

Yes, of course spies would gather information mainly through their local accomplices. The point is that a Roman spy would have a tougher time doing this in a Celtic settlement, as outsiders are suspicious.

Having spies of foreign origin would be cool. Maybe it's possible to add a province specific spy to the recruitment roster- dependent on the text recources present? A regional specific spy recruited in Massila would get the "Gallic origin" trait by default, for example.

[orwell]

I like the idea, though I'm curious. How common were spies and assassins. The level of difficulty for a beginning, and even a medium experienced spy can easily die. Shouldn't he already have some training at least? When you raise triarii your not just giving armor and weapons to a group of people, your calling upon veterans of war. If not making it easier, either across the board or through a intriguing system of traits that makes EB a exciting game, is there a limit on what type of agent you can have and how many? A diplomat that could reside in a city, instead of being camped outside would make more sense. Could possible various levels of spies be created? With appropriate cost and upkeep of course, if a master spy is infiltrating kart-hadast, he's going to need plenty of resources over time, and just finding such a excellent spy, even if always recruitable, should be very expensive. Maybe spread the spying process over several turns if possible? In just a couple months it would be hard to infiltrate the inner circles of a people, I would think anyways. If nothing else could we at least see new, varied messages and images when a spy/assassin fails or dies? Leaving it as it was, at least in RTR, never played RTW beyond the son of mars campaign, seems like a affront to such a indepth and amazing mod. [/end suckup/thread hijack]

More traits and depth, always a good idea.

[Southern Hunter]

Great idea. Would add some needed depth to spying strategy.

As Rome, you would need to take at least one gallic town to recruit local spies suitable for peeking at more gallic provinces.

[PseRamesses]

Neat idea Kralizec!

Is it possible to connect theese abilities to a cultural region? Ex: a spy trained in Iberia would NOT get any restraints in spying on the Iberians. A spy trained i Massalia would NOT have any restraints in spying on the Aedui and Arverni etc etc.

I personally miss a trait for spies based on the amount of land he has discovered like "the explorer" or "the mapper" (sp?). It could increase his line of sight. I belive the current line of sight is to big.

[Ludens]

I like the ideas proposed in this thread, though I wonder how much of it is possible. I do hope Malrubius finds a way to complicate the spy system.


How common were spies and assassins.
I don't know much about the other factions, but the Romans didn't have an centralized intelligence system. Then again, they didn't have a centralized army until the empire either. Julius Ceasar relied for his intelligence on the reports of Roman merchants that did business in Gaul, while one of Marius' officers once disguised himself as a tribesman to infiltrate the enemy camp. This does not indicate the existence of an advanced spy network. Assassination of enemy war leaders did happen occasionaly, but the Romans usually just offered a reward and hoped another war chief would try it. Perhaps they saved their assassins for use in Rome.

[Avicenna]

There were plenty of assassins in the ancient world for sure. I don't think the Romans liked it very much though, seeing as they declined offers of others to assassinate Pyrrhus or Ariminius.

Didn't the Romans have spies, like the Areani?

[orwell]

Maybe boost the cost for spies and assassins for romans, while lowering it for factions who typically used spies and assassins? I imagine a trading empire such as Carthage or, if its going to be added, a faction based in Arabia. Anyways, I was thinking on a continuation of my earlier idea. As your spies penetrate the higher echelons of society, they will probably get to know the governors and generals of the town and, if possible when reasonable, the entire province. Could the family members then develop a series of traits/anti traits that raise or lower how easy it is for a assassin to kill them? If they're a blundering idiot they might suspect something and increase their watch over them to prevent assassinations, while a masterful spy may become their close friends and will intimately know their schedule. When passing this information along to a assassin, the family member could become easier to kill without the assassin getting caught or killed. Depending on how good your spy and assassin are, maybe you could even indicate that a better assassin uses a more complicated method while a poor assassin will just club them as seen in the animation, your spy/assassin may become suspect and loses some of his ability and become easier to kill. If a spy/assassin comes upon a faction leader, heir, or possibly someone who has a large number of points in a particular skill such as management, command or influence, the spy/assassin could recieve a trait indicating that they are very talented. King slayer, or something like that. I hope, if this doesn't make it in, that it'll at least provide a spring board for Malrubius or other members of EB.