How to fix the Siege Tower bug

[Seasoned Alcoholic]

Note: this may be a modding topic of sorts, but the fix can be carried out by any forum member due to its simplicity.

I've run some more extensive tests, and have appeared to have solved this siege tower bug.

First of all, I tried a docking distance that was deliberately too far from the walls. The units refused to climb up the tower, they didn't even attempt to enter the tower's base.

Then I tried several distances closer to the walls, and after a bit of trial-and-error, managed to find the ideal distance. I've tried this on numerous wall sections, and using a variety of different infantry and missile units. The result is that each unit should now climb up any wall section.

To fix this issue yourself manually (will take you no more than 2 mins), this is what you should do:
Browse to and open your data folder @ C:\Program Files\Activision\Rome - Total War
Create a backup of descr_engines, rename as necessary
Open descr_engines and hit Ctrl+F to open the search tool
Type in middle_tower and do a search
You should now see a code extract that looks as below:


type middle_tower
culture all
class tower
variant medium
projectile scorpion

engine_model_group normal
engine_skeleton middle_tower
engine_collision data/models_engine/Mid_Tow_mod_very_low.CAS
engine_model data/models_engine/Middle_tow_model.CAS, 200
engine_model data/models_engine/Mid_Tow_mod_med.CAS, 400
engine_model data/models_engine/Mid_Tow_mod_low.CAS, 800
engine_model data/models_engine/Mid_Tow_mod_very_low.CAS, max
engine_platforms data/models_engine/Middle_tow_info.CAS

engine_model_group dying
engine_skeleton middle_tower_dying
engine_model data/models_engine/mid_tow_dying_model.CAS, max
engine_platforms none

engine_model_group dead
engine_model data/models_engine/mid_tow_dying_dead.CAS, max
engine_platforms none

engine_shadow none

engine_radius 8
engine_length 14
engine_width 11
engine_height 36
engine_mass 40
engine_dock_dist 12.5
engine_mob_dist 18
engine_flammable true
engine_ignition 0.20
fire_effect engine_fire_middle_tower_set

obstacle_shape rectangle
obstacle_x_radius 9
obstacle_y_radius 9

engine_spo physical_obstacle

engine_push_point -7.00 9
engine_push_point -5.25 9
engine_push_point -3.5 9
engine_push_point -1.75 9
engine_push_point 0.0 9
engine_push_point 1.75 9
engine_push_point 3.5 9
engine_push_point 5.25 9
engine_push_point 7.00 9

engine_push_point -7.00 10
engine_push_point -5.25 10
engine_push_point -3.5 10
engine_push_point -1.75 10
engine_push_point 0.0 10
engine_push_point 1.75 10
engine_push_point 3.5 10
engine_push_point 5.25 10
engine_push_point 7.00 10


engine_health 150
;engine_weapon ballista
;engine_armour siege tower

attack_stat 12, 2, scorpion, 120, 30, siege_missile, siege, piercing
attack_stat_attr ap, bp, launching

arrow_generator 0 35.7 4.8
aim_dir 0.0 0.0 1.0
aim_arc 1.0
fire_interval 1.5

arrow_generator 1 35.7 4.8
aim_dir 0.0 0.0 1.0
aim_arc 1.0
fire_interval 1.5

arrow_generator 2 35.7 4.8
aim_dir 0.0 0.0 1.0
aim_arc 1.0
fire_interval 1.5

arrow_generator -1 35.7 4.8
aim_dir 0.0 0.0 1.0
aim_arc 1.0
fire_interval 1.5

arrow_generator -2 35.7 4.8
aim_dir 0.0 0.0 1.0
aim_arc 1.0
fire_interval 1.5

missile_model data/models_engine/Bolt_high.CAS, 20.0
missile_model data/models_engine/Bolt_high.CAS, 40.0
missile_model data/models_engine/Bolt_high.CAS, max
missile_pos 0.0 22 0.0
missile_radius 1
missile_height 2.5
missile_mass 3
The entry you need to change is engine_dock_dist, which at present looks as below:


engine_dock_dist 12.5
Simply change the 12.5 value to a number around / between 12.1 and 12.2, your entry should now look as below:


engine_dock_dist 12.1

OR


engine_dock_dist 12.2

Note: these values are merely placeholders, you can probably enter more specific values to a greater number of decimal places for improved results
Save your changes, close the text file
Start-up RTW and go into custom battles
Make sure you play a siege assault gametype versus large stone walls to notice the changesI'm sure player1 has already incorporated this fix into a version of his Bug Fixer. We'd originally had a chat about this a while ago, and I'm sure he'd also found the optimum distance for these towers. I would also like to thank Severous for re-igniting my testing into this area.

Thanks.

[Jambo]

Wow, if this works then this is a superb find! I am yet to try it (haven't played Rome TW in >6 months), but presuming it does work, a massive well done to you! :)

Edit: Not bad for a seasoned alcoholic ;)

[Ciaran]

Indeed. To think what considerable amount of ranting this issue cause and that it should be so easily solved...
I truly hope this works.

[Puzz3D]

Very impressive find!

[econ21]

There are two threads in the RTR forum on Platinum about fixing this bug. IIRC, both proposed solutions are rather different to this one. You might want to compare notes (although I would hold off right now - I just went there and my anti-virus detected up 8 trojans, four of which could not be disinfected; the site was supposed to be safe after the attack yesterday but my anti-virus still did not like it).

I'm not sure player1 did include this fix - I found this solution elsewhere (or something very close), raised it with him a while back and he said he'd look into it, but I did not spot it in the readme last time I checked.

[Seasoned Alcoholic]

Yeah, I'd seen something about the RTR Platnium team addressing this siege tower issue with their next release. It was over @ TWC in this topic:

Issues with siege towers since update (http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=54502)

As you say econ, I think I'll hold-off visiting their forums since I don't have any recent backups of my own modding project, and wouldn't really want to lose my hard drive to a potential virus / worm / trojan. I've had my own bad experiences of this in the past, basically had to reinstall everything from scratch :shame:

It would be good to see how they rectified the problem though ~D

[Jambo]

I might just go back and finish my Scipii campaign now, which I abandoned in frustration when large stone walls became prominent across the map .....

[gmjapan]

I dont think it is in Bug-Fixer. I use it and I have problems with towers and walls.

[The Spartan (Returns)]

I'm not sure player1 did include this fix - I found this solution elsewhere (or something very close), raised it with him a while back and he said he'd look into it, but I did not spot it in the readme last time I checked. he did i just checked the file. but good job SA! :balloon2: :balloon2: (i thought i still had this bug)

[Jambo]

player1 seems skeptical as to whether this proposed fix works (see Bug-fixer thread).

[Seasoned Alcoholic]

I've read the latest posts in the bug fixer topic. That's puzzling, because as mentioned earlier...


I've tried this on numerous wall sections, and using a variety of different infantry and missile units. The result is that each unit should now climb up any wall section.

...I've actually tested this first hand in custom battles, and the proposed fix worked perfectly. I'd go to the trouble of posting screenshots, but its just fiddling around and setting them up at a file hoster.

Please test this fix for yourselves and post some screenshots and feedback of your progress in custom battles / your campaign.

[Severous]

Well done Seasoned Alcoholic

Now I have a dilemma. I never mod my game. Yet this looks like it should be a fix/patch.

If I modded my file and then played a swap game with a player who had not changed their version would the save game work ok? I mean a save would be passing back a forwards between me and my friend between machines with different files?

[Seasoned Alcoholic]

Your last comment re the exits causing casualties I have not noticed. But it got me thinking about the main problem.

What if the problem is not the entrance to the seige tower...but the exit.? If the exit has not been positioned correctly might the game think there is no path to the wall you want your troops to move to? If there is no path to a destination the units dont move...and thus appear stuck at the entrance.

No, thank you Severous. Your post extract from TWC (above) got me thinking about the problem again, and that's why I conducted a few tests. It had been a while since I'd been investigating the docking distances.

I'm sure you can keep an unmodified vanilla version on your machine, but at the same time you can make use of modified files. One way of doing this may be to use the JSGME for example. I've never used it myself, but from reading about it, apparently you can run modified files seperately, without even having to change a single vanilla file.

There's more info in this guide in the Scriptorium on how to download and install the JSGME, here's the link:

How to use the JoneSoft Generic Mod Enabler (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=58201)

If you both installed and used the JSGME, I'm sure you'd have no problems file swapping.

[Jambo]

I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but this doesn't fix the bugged large siege towers attacking large stone walls. By that I mean the men failing to climb the large siege towers and instead remain milling around at the entryway of the tower.

Just out of interest what custom battle are you doing? I wasn't aware there was a custom battle which had large stone walls...

[player1]

player1 seems skeptical as to whether this proposed fix works (see Bug-fixer thread).

Actually, I never really knew for this thread.
12.5 to 12.2 fix solves the problem when soliders will fall down from the siege towers on some of the walls.

I don't think it does anything with units stuck at the botton of the tower at large walls.

[Seasoned Alcoholic]

I've just run some more tests on a variation of docking distances and large walls for different culture types. As the tests reveal (and as recently pointed out), some wall sections are in fact still bugged, and the units may still refuse to climb up the tower.

However, it appears that a fewer number of wall sections are bugged than there were previously before the docking distances were modified. Either that or all this testing (and working on my project at the same time) has made be a bit :dizzy2:

I'm sure that the problem must be related to the coding of either the siege tower or the wall sections. I'd heard originally that there were incorrect coding for certain sections on these large stone walls. If that's the case, then I'd be surprised if any workaround would be relevant to fixing this problem. The code / model etc would need to be redone to sort out the issues with certain wall sections. If only I had the software available to see what was causing the problem...

Jambo, what I've done to test out this bugged area is to go into custom battles. Then select a pre-defined settlement (EG Londinium). The gametype should now snap to Siege Assault in the top-left corner. Simply open the advanced options, and set-up a siege against whatever culture's large stone walls.

[Jambo]

Shame. :/ Hopefully you guys will find a solution, if there is one to be found.

[Ciaran]

I dont think it is in Bug-Fixer. I use it and I have problems with towers and walls.

It is in the bug-fixer, but it doesn´t work, at least not completely. I´ve tried what Seasoned Alcoholic proposed, fought a custom battle with nine siege towers (against Carthagian large walls, maybe the culture is important, too). Seven of them worked as intended, but there seems to be no fixed rule which segments work and which don´t - I definitely can´t confirm that all odd segments (where do I start counting, by the way?) work and all even segments do not, or vice versa.

[player1]

It was never intended to solve units stuck at bottom of seige towers bug.

What I included solved the issue that happens on some walls (don't remember which one), when units will fall down from siege towers on exit, resulting in 20% unit loss when boarding enemy city walls.

[econ21]

I was invading Rome in an endgame and the large walls bug is very annoying. I tried the fix here and also the descr_engine changes mooted on the RTR Platinum forum but got no joy. I guess one workaround is just to bring many towers and try your luck; another is to sap as well (although I was not allowed to sap Rome itself).

The other fix on the RTR Platinum forum is to edit files so that medium towers take on the shape and appearance of small towers, or something like that. However, that requires downloading files from rapidshare which is always a problem for me. The RTR forums are still infected with Trojans, so I would advise people to still hold for a while before checking this out.

[Seasoned Alcoholic]

It is in the bug-fixer, but it doesn´t work, at least not completely. I´ve tried what Seasoned Alcoholic proposed, fought a custom battle with nine siege towers (against Carthagian large walls, maybe the culture is important, too). Seven of them worked as intended, but there seems to be no fixed rule which segments work and which don´t - I definitely can´t confirm that all odd segments (where do I start counting, by the way?) work and all even segments do not, or vice versa.

In the tests I'd undertaken (most of which were against Roman culture walls), I'd usually count the first section from the left. You can split the testing into 4 sections, one for each 'set' of walls, a set being several sections linked together on a complete side. By sides I mean North, South, East, West.

Btw, you'll probably need to turn siege tower flammability off, this becomes especially frustrating when your siege towers go up in smoke. I'd written a guide a while ago n how to modify various siege tower aspects (including flammability), here's the link:

How To...Modify Siege Tower Aspects (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=62498)

I'm dismayed at the omission of anything other than 'standard' ladders. If you take a look at the text file, you'll realise that ladder models were never created to be used against large and epic stone walls - what was the point of that? There are models in there that may be of use, but since I don't own a copy of 3DS MAX (and don't know how to model anyway), there's little more I can do about this issue.

[Jambo]

Ultimately the best thing to do is just mod out large stone walls and epic stone walls. They're fairly ridiculous looking anyway...

[barocca]

just curious

Rome - First Edition : out of the box with no patches

there are a number of maps that have small knobbly bumps of terrain around the walls,
some of these bumps are slightly less than the height of a man,
some look like a 1957 VW has been covered with dirt,
if you move a battering ram over some of them (most but not all) one of two things will happen,
1. the ram will become irrevocably stuck
2. the ram, and the unit pushing it, will fall off the map

this was fixed in the first patch (iirc)


I am wondering, the maps where you are having trouble with seige towers getting at the walls,
is the terrain perfectly flat? or does the terrain has some of the knobbly bits around?
perhaps the seige tower has no clear approach TO the wall due to adverse terrain??

B.

[Jambo]

Barocca, unfortunately, the problem is not with the approach to the walls as the large siege towers make it to the walls fine. The problem is when the large siege tower has reached the wall and the men attempt to climb to the wall. They don't, and the instead they get stuck round the entrance of the tower indefinitely.

[barocca]

but is the terrain flat?
maybe they cant get into the entrance to the tower because of terrain is what i am thinking

with the rams the men were "attatched" to the ram, whatever happened to it, terrain wise, also happened to them
(ir was most disconcerting to watch them vanish into thin air)

so maybe the tower appears to make it to the wall, but the men cant get into the entry point of the tower because of one of those infernal buried 1957 VeeDubs?

do you have a known map and segment where the tower wont work?
can you check the terrain? even the slightest "bump" would upset the ram in RTW-v1.0
B.

[Mr Frost]

but is the terrain flat?
maybe they cant get into the entrance to the tower because of terrain is what i am thinking

with the rams the men were "attatched" to the ram, whatever happened to it, terrain wise, also happened to them
(ir was most disconcerting to watch them vanish into thin air)

so maybe the tower appears to make it to the wall, but the men cant get into the entry point of the tower because of one of those infernal buried 1957 VeeDubs?

do you have a known map and segment where the tower wont work?
can you check the terrain? even the slightest "bump" would upset the ram in RTW-v1.0
B.
Could be . When it happens , the men do seem to be trying to run onto the ramp but appear to be physically blocked as though by a wall .
Oddly however , I find if I reload the battle {I always quick save before an assault due to bugs like this} then invariably the same unit with the same tower taking the same section of wall succeeds in getting into the tower and onto the wall {opposing units defending wall lament my powers of quicksave !} the second try . Must be very tiny imperfections that the wheels don't allways encounter ... assuming of course that the vecor for the problem isn't something entirely different .

[CountMRVHS]

Just have to ask, in which version does this bug express itself? I have 1.5 via installing BI, and haven't noticed anything like this. Does it only appear in 1.6?

[player1]

Both versions, with large stone walls only.