Bloodlines and Indigo Prophecy discussion

[Kongamato]

I was going to put this little tantrum in the game suggestions thread, but it got too big and I decided to make a thread of it. Both of these games were fun, but they had glaring problems that I want to discuss. It seems like I'm the only one who didn't like certain parts of these games. My opinion is that they were good, but they could have been great.


Bloodlines was great overall, but committed several unforgivable errors. The game could have been even more immersive than it was, but the team had to go out and make an inside joke every chance they had. The game became a festival of homages, parody, bone-throwing, and political jabs. Every imitation object in the game had some silly joke to it, like "Coke" being "C**k", and so on. Every mission was interesting, mysterious, immersive, and in somebody's oversized basement(but I didn't mind that). However, when that was over with, I go back to a joke-world that might as well be from a Simpsons episode. If the environment of the game was as serious and as immersive as the main plot, it would have been a little better for me. I felt that perhaps Troika knew this would be their last game and decided to do some serious screwing around.

And last but not least, MEN DON'T WALK THAT WAY!

Indigo Prophecy started out great. Again, it had an immersive plot, but it began to unravel. I read the manual as usual, and David Cage talks about how he wants to convey a fuller story with more emotional content. However, in the end, it felt empty.

Like Bloodlines, I felt that the main plot, Lucas' story, was indeed good, suspenseful, and addictive. However, it intersected with the rest of the characters near the end, who I didn't think were realistic enough. Tyler was a token basketball-playing, funky-walking, wise-cracking african-american, and did he have any important impact on the story when the characters' paths intersected? Carla did play a major part, but I felt in the end the romance angle was so forced and unnatural, it made her seem like she was just there to screw Lucas and walk around in her underwear. T+A is another thing I've never cared for in games, but that's just me.

I'd like to see features from IP in other games. Dialog choices allowed for control over the character, but also allowed the character to have a voice and an identity. Bloodlines and the KOTOR games desperately needed this. It was almost hilarious to see people following and delivering praise to my stone-faced, mute characters for their wisdom and skills. These characters could have used the kind of control system that Lucas had.

A lot of people here have played these games. Did any of you have the issues that I did? I've become a pretty finicky gamer, so I wonder if I'm just being spoiled and whiny. Your opinions?

[Reverend Joe]

Never played Bloodlines, but I played a little of Indigo Prophesy; it started off marvelously, but it quickly became about as interesting as watching grass grow. Lucas should not have returned to his normal, routine life; they call it "normal" and "routine" for a reason. I would have vastly preferred a surreal odyssey through a futuristic New York City. The entire environment was also too cloistered; the "odyssey" aspect would have allowed for an open environment, with some cues to let you know where you should be going. The cops were very drab characters, as well; and frankly, I don't want to play a game where I have to frickin' get up. They leave that crap out for a reason. Let the character development happen "on the road."

[Geoffrey S]

Both games I really enjoyed, but I agree that they could have been great but just fell short. Vampire because of a number of bugs and a general clunkiness in gameplay, Fahrenheit because of the loss of influence over the characters' actions after the first half of the game.

[econ21]

I loved Bloodlines - I did not see it as being in a joke-world, but maybe, being a Brit, I missed a lot of the cultural references. Or maybe I am not so pernickity. I liked some of the jokes - the radio and the TV anchorman.

Perhaps the best thing about Bloodlines for me were the NPC characters - most of them were so vividly drawn and unusual. The chats you have with Jack in the tutorial alone are much more fun than all the conversations in some other RPGs (cough, Morrowind)! I think the game probably gets slightly worse as you move from area to area - the first two areas (Santa Monica? and Downtown) were particularly engaging. Chinatown becomes too linear and combat heavy, IMO.

Linked to that, the sidequests and even mainquest tasks are rather innovative. I guess LaCroix does send you on a far number of "fetch" quests, but they are far from fedex. (As my Malkavian said about the Museum quest: "It was fun, there were dinosaurs!") Doing the quests for the daughters of Janus was probably the highpoint.

I am not sure why you felt your main character was a cipher. I usually found it gave me a nice variety of lines to choose from. But I guess I have just got hooked on the Malkavian clan, who have amazing dialogue.

The other area where Bloodlines really shined was in role-playing. To me, it really got me into the part of being a vampire. First time around, I just did not want to play a vampire - I am more used to being a paladin type and had only reluctantly bought the game. But gradually, the game gets you draws you in to the covert and hungry nature of the vampire - I started off lurking in sewers, feeding on rats, despising myself. Then gradually, it becomes fun and when I got to Hollywood I was genuinely afraid when I was recognised by an old friend. I did not want to go to my characters old life - I wanted to get on with the new life. My character ended up draining enemies with a vicious abandon. There were other nice aspects too - sometimes when things got to heavy, my character would just dance as an execise in carthasis; it was just too cool to find out that the game rewards that with a restoration of humanity.

Most of the rest of the game was top-notch: the graphics, the voicework, the music & sound effects, character creation and development etc. It was rough around the edges, but very rewarding with a little perseverence (well, a lot of perseverence when it came to that swimming quest).

[TB666]

Bloodlines was good but could have been better and was a bit too buggy for my taste.
But the graphics was nice, it was funny and a look at Jeanette's rack is worth it :balloon2:
Fahrenheit was better IMO.
It had a very movie like quality and nice story.
Plus the sex scene was great:sweatdrop: .

[Lemur]

You are aware that there are user-created patches for Bloodlines, right? They're supposed to be pretty good.

I think this one is the latest. (http://www.playfuls.com/download_1178_Vampire_Bloodlines_unofficial_patch_v24.html)

The end of Bloodlines got way too combat-heavy. That trek through the tunnels under Hollywood -- ugh! I really could have done without a dungeon crawl.

[English assassin]

I really could have done without a dungeon crawl.

These are words to live by. :yes:

Like Econ21 (man, it throws me when people change their names) I thought the role playing possibilities of Bloodlines, and the characters you met, were way above average. Maybe I missed the more annoying jokes?

Now that its cheap as chips I'd recommend it to anyone.

[doc_bean]

Having replayed it I thought the dungeon crawl was much better than the first time I went through it. certainly not as frustratingly hard, but then I had a really crap character the first time (er..the one that changes into a wolf)

I wasn't bothered by the humour, in fact i thought playing as a Malk was one of the funniest gaming experiences ever :2thumbsup:

[Navaros]

I haven't played either of those two games but I share Kongamato's hatred of devs putting in asinine, unfunny jokes that break the context of an RPG game. That same exact thing ruined Baldur's Gate 2 for me and was a huge annoyance in many, many others games that I've played.

Why is it that devs seem to have an innate drive to put crap like that into games, I'll never know.

I can appreciate humor in a game as much as the next man, but only when it's mature and in-context. Which seems to be the exception rather than the rule.

[Lemur]

Having replayed it I thought the dungeon crawl was much better than the first time I went through it. certainly not as frustratingly hard.
It wasn't the difficulty that irritated me -- it was the sudden descent into a combat-only game. And if you'll recall, the game never really got back to being an RPG after that. All of the missions toward the end became slugfests without alternative paths to victory. Very irritating in a game which had been, up until that point, an exercise in social/stealth/combat alternatives.