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Crazed Rabbit
07-04-2006, 00:53
I read a very interesting article today, about the wives of the alledged terrorists in Canada. It seems many of them, though without radical parents or background, became radicals to the point of hating their country:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20060629.BLOG29/TPStory//?pageRequested=all

The article (long)

Hateful chatter behind the veil
Key suspects' wives held radical views, Web postings reveal

OMAR EL AKKAD AND GREG MCARTHUR

MISSISSAUGA -- When it came time to write up the premarital agreement between Zakaria Amara and Nada Farooq, Ms. Farooq briefly considered adding a clause that would allow her to ask for a divorce.

She said that Mr. Amara (now accused of being a leader of the alleged terror plot that led to the arrests of 17 Muslim men early this month) had to aspire to take part in jihad.

"[And] if he ever refuses a clear opportunity to leave for jihad, then i want the choice of divorce," she wrote in one of more than 6,000 Internet postings uncovered by The Globe and Mail.

Wives of four of the central figures arrested last month were among the most active on the website, sharing, among other things, their passion for holy war, disgust at virtually every aspect of non-Muslim society and a hatred of Canada. The posts were made on personal blogs belonging to both Mr. Amara and Ms. Farooq, as well as a semi-private forum founded by Ms. Farooq where dozens of teens in the Meadowvale Secondary School area chatted. The vast majority of the posts were made over a period of about 20 months, mostly in 2004, and the majority of those were made by the group's female members.

The tightly knit group of women who chatted with each other includes Mariya (the wife of alleged leader Fahim Ahmad), Nada (the wife of Mr. Amara, the alleged right-hand man) Nada's sister Rana (wife of suspect Ahmad Ghany), as well as Cheryfa MacAulay Jamal (the Muslim convert from Cape Breton, N.S. who married the oldest suspect, 43-year-old Qayyum Abdul Jamal). The women's husbands are part of a core group of seven charged with the most severe crimes -- plotting to detonate truck bombs against the Toronto Stock Exchange, a Canadian Forces target, and the Toronto offices of the Canadian Security Intelligence Service.

The women were bound by the same social, political and ideological aims. They organized "sisters-only" swimming days and held fundraisers for the notorious al-Qaeda-linked Khadr family. With the exception of the occasional Urdu or Arabic word or phrase, their posts are exclusively in English.

After their husbands were arrested, most of the women refused to tell their stories to the media; reached at her home in Mississauga, Ms. Farooq would not comment on her posts.

But in the years leading up to the arrests, they shared their stories with one another.

She knows it freaks her husband out just thinking about it, but 18-year-old Nada Farooq doesn't care: She wants a baby. It is mid-April, 2004, and the two have been married for less than a year. In the end, the jihad clause was not included in a prenuptial agreement.

Like many students at Meadowvale Secondary School, Zakaria Amara is busy worrying about final exams and what, if any, university to go to. But Ms. Farooq -- the Karachi-born daughter of a pharmacist who now hands out prescription medicine to soldiers at the Canadian Forces Base in Wainwright, Alta. -- has already done a fair bit of daydreaming about what it would be like to have a child. She even has a name picked. If she has a boy, she wants to name him Khattab, after the commander of the mujahedeen in Chechnya who battled Moscow until he was assassinated in 2002.

"And i pray to Allah my sons follow his footsteps Ameeen [Amen]," she writes at the on-line forum she founded for Muslim teens in Mississauga's Meadowvale area. Her avatar -- an on-line symbol used to indicate personality -- is a picture of the Koran and a rifle.

(All postings in this story have been rendered as they appeared on-line.)

There is nothing casual about Ms. Farooq's interpretation of Islam. She reiterates the belief that jihad is the "sixth pillar" of the religion, and her on-line postings are decidedly interested in the violent kind. In the forum titled "Terrorism and killing civilians," she writes a detailed point-by-point explanation of why the Taliban is destined to emerge victorious in Afghanistan.

Virtually every other government on the planet, however, she only has disdain for.

"All muslim politicians are corrupt," she writes. "There's no one out there willing to rule the country by the laws of Allah, rather they fight to rule the country by the laws of democracy." She criticizes Muslims in places such as Dubai for spending money on elaborate buildings while Iraqis are being killed.

Ms. Farooq's criticism is often directed first at other Muslims. When another poster writes about how he finds homosexuality disgusting, Nada replies by pointing out that there are even gay Muslims. She then posts a photo of a rally held by Al-Fatiha, a Canadian support group for gay Muslims. "Look at these pathetic people," she writes. "They should all be sent to Saudi, where these sickos are executed or crushed by a wall, in public."

The majority of Muslims Ms. Farooq does admire are ones currently at war, and she reserves her most vitriolic comments for the people they are at war with.

In a thread started by Mr. Fahim's wife, Mariya, marking the death of Hamas leader Abdel-Aziz al-Rantissi after an Israeli missile strike, Ms. Farooq unleashes her fury: "May Allah crush these jews, bring them down to their kneees, humuliate them. Ya Allah make their women widows and their children orphans." The statement is so jarring that another poster complains it's not right for Muslims to wish such things on other people. Ms. Farooq's sister Rana is also in favour of violent resistance, posting often graphic photos of female militants and suicide bombers.

But while her heart may be in the battlefields and holy cities, Nada Farooq finds herself physically in Canada, a country the Karachi-born teen moved to after spending her childhood in Saudi Arabia. Her name is properly pronounced "Needa," and when she came to Canada as a child, some of the kids at her school teased her by calling her "Needa Shower." She'd often come home in tears.

The Farooqs, a Pakistani family, came to Canada in 1997 because they didn't like the idea of raising their children in the conservative society of Saudi Arabia, where foreign-born children don't have access to the same education as nationals, said Nada's father, Mohammad Umer Farooq.

When a Globe reporter contacted Nada's father at his home in Wainwright, and described some of his daughter's Internet postings, Mr. Farooq said he was "curious" and "concerned."

His daughter never expressed such opinions to him, he said, though he noted that he's worked in Alberta for the past five years and only makes it home to Mississauga a few weeks every year. He headed west because the pharmacist training hours required in Alberta were much lower.

His daughter has always been more religious than he and his wife, he said, and it was a faith that she developed in Canada, not Saudi Arabia. He described himself as 30 per cent religious and his daughter as 100 per cent.

"Occasionally. I pray. She prays five times."

While his daughter has used her Internet forum to lament the end of the Taliban, Mr. Farooq is a firm supporter of Canada's mission in Afghanistan. Many of the soldiers he serves at CFB Wainwright will eventually be joining the mission.

"They are there for the betterment of the people. They are there for the development of Afghanistan."

While she forms a close circle of Muslim friends, Ms. Farooq is never comfortable with life in Canada. She posts that her mother is often lonely because her father spends large portions of his time at work. She talks about going to the University of Toronto in Mississauga as fulfilling her parents' dreams rather than her own.

Ms. Farooq's hatred for the country is palpable. She hardly ever calls Canada by its name, rather repeatedly referring to it as "this filthy country." It's a sentiment shared by many of her friends, one of whom states that the laws of the country are irrelevant because they are not the laws of God.

In late April of 2004, a poster asks the forum members to share their impressions of what makes Canada unique. Nada's answer is straightforward.

"Who cares? We hate Canada."

In Cheryfa MacAulay Jamal's mind, every Muslim is another potential victim.

As a 44-year-old member of an on-line forum inhabited almost exclusively by teenagers, Ms. Jamal fits snugly into the role of maternal figure, and the advice she dispenses reflects her firm belief that the forces of evil are out to get every member of her adopted religion. She encourages Muslim youths to learn about herbal medicine and first aid lest they ever find themselves in a Muslim country under embargo, unable to receive proper medicine. Even in Canada, she says, one can never become complacent.

"You don't know that the Muslims in Canada will never be rounded up and put into internment camps like the Japanese were in WWII!" she writes in one 2004 post. This is a time when Muslims "are being systematically cleansed from the earth," she adds.

If she's looking for an example of such oppression, Ms. Jamal finds it in the Khadrs, the Canadian family whose patriarch, Ahmed Said Khadr, was killed by Pakistani forces and declared a martyr by al-Qaeda. In June, 2004, Ms. Jamal spearheaded a committee to help Mr. Khadr's widow, Maha. In Ms. Jamal's view, Maha Khadr and her family have committed no crime, only stated their opinion, and it is the duty of the entire Muslim nation to ensure the family's well-being.

Ms. Jamal's zealousness for homegrown Muslim causes is matched only by her rejection of just about everything Canadian. As the June, 2004 federal election draws near, she repeatedly advises Muslim youth to completely avoid the process. Voting, she tells them, inherently violates the sovereignty of God, making it the most egregious sin against Islam.

"Are you accepting a system that separates religion and state?" she asks. "Are you gonna give your pledge of allegiance to a party that puts secular laws above the laws of Allah? Are you gonna worship that which they worship? Are you going to throw away the most important thing that makes you a muslim?"

Ms. Jamal's list of forbidden institutions goes beyond politics. Banking, membership in the United Nations, women's rights and secular law are all aspects of Canadian society she finds unacceptable.

But her deepest outrage, like that of so many Muslims, is time and again sparked by the treatment of her brothers and sisters around the world. In a May, 2004 post titled "Behold Your Enemy!" she posts multiple articles describing the humiliation of Iraqi prisoners at the hands of American soldiers.

"Know what you will face one day," she warns fellow forum members. "Let them call you a terrorist, let them make you look like a savage, but know that THIS is the filth of the earth, the uncivilised destroyer of humanity.

"Know from this day that this is not an Iraqi problem, it is not an Afghani problem, it is not a Palestinian problem, it is not a Somali problem. IT IS YOUR PROBLEM!!!"

Often, the conversation was quite tame. The women post advice on make-up, organizing sisters-only events and finding restaurants that offer truly halal Chinese food. Fahim Ahmad's wife, Mariya, posts a warning to other women not to go watch the brothers play soccer, because it makes them uncomfortable."Yea, and besides, their OUR husbands!" Ms. Jamal concurs. "Go get your own to stare at!"

But inevitably, it would come back to Islam, the very purpose for which Ms. Farooq created the forum in the first place. When it comes to religion, the wives of Mr. Amara, Mr. Jamal, Mr. Ghany and Mr. Ahmad exhibit a commitment to hard-line fundamentalism that rivals and often exceeds that of their husbands.

In May, 2004, the Meadowvale students come across an extremely graphic video showing the beheading of a U.S. hostage in Iraq. Mr. Fahim, posting under the name "Soldier of ALLAH," praises the killers as mujahedeen who will be rewarded in the afterlife. Another poster maintains the beheading was actually carried out by U.S. forces as a ploy to direct anger at the Muslim community. It's this post that inspires Nada to prohibit any further discussion of similar conspiracy theories.

Three posts later, her husband reprints an article claiming the Americans were responsible for the beheading.

But such occasional bickering between newlyweds does not stop Ms. Jamal from seeing the bigger picture. In her 40s, she is more than twice as old as most of the other Muslims on the forum. But like her husband, she believes young Muslims are the only ones capable of standing up against non-Muslim oppression.

For the most part, the wives of the other suspects do not let her down. This is especially true of Ms. Farooq, who deeply believes that education, financial success and other such goals are relatively frivolous because they only help Muslims during their time on Earth, and not in the afterlife. When another forum member disagrees with her view, she describes him as being "too much in this dunya [world]," and not sufficiently concerned with what comes after.

"Those who are sincere in pleasing Allah will go to whatever length to help the true believers," Ms. Farooq writes. "Those who fear Allah more than they fear the CSIS. Those are the ones who will succeed in the hereafter." NEXT: The transformation of

Zakaria Amara

Husbands and wives

CHERYFA AND QAYYUM ABDUL JAMAL

Cheryfa's age: 44

Husband: Qayyum Abdul Jamal, charged with knowingly participating in the activities of a terrorist group, receiving training and intent to cause an explosion

On-line nickname: UmmTayyab ("Mother of Tayyab")

Quote: "You don't know that the Muslims in Canada will never be rounded up and put into internment camps like the Japanese were in WWII!"

RANA AND AHMAD GHANY

Rana's age: 19

Husband: Ahmad Ghany, charged with knowingly participating in the activities of a terrorist group and receiving training

On-line nickname: Al-Mujahidah ("The Jihadist")

Quote: "May Allah curse the jews.. Ameen"

NADA FAROOQ AND ZAKARIA AMARA

Nada's age: 20

Husband: Zakaria Amara, charged with knowingly participating in the activities of a terrorist group, receiving training, providing training or recruiting and intent to cause an explosion

On-line nickname: Admin (the website's administrator)

Quote: "Those who fear Allah more than they fear the CSIS. Those are the ones who will succeed in the hereafter."

MARIYA AND FAHIM AHMAD

Mariya's age: 19

Husband: Fahim Ahmad, charged with knowingly participating in the activities of a terrorist group, importing a firearm, receiving training, providing training or recruiting and intent to cause an explosion

On-line nickname: Zawjatu Faheem ("Wife of Faheem")

Quote: "I heard that some sisters were watching the brothers play soccer last time...just wanted to let you know the brothers dont feel comfortable playing while the sisters are watching, so please, refrain from going there inshallaah and find something that will benefit you."

This is the essence of the danger from radical immigrants, or even their children, who, because of Islam, become radicals who seek to destroy the country in which they live.

Most western Muslims, of course, are not radicals. But the minority who feed off of radical Islam are, which is why it is important to expose radical Islam as a evil sham to be shunned.

Remember, too, that this is in Canada, the great big nice country o' the north.

Crazed Rabbit

Navaros
07-04-2006, 01:19
I'd say it is those who call themselves Muslims yet do not actually believe or obey what is in the Koran who are the sham (ie: "mainstream" Muslims).

Muslims who actually believe in the Koran are not "evil" just because they disagree with the secular majority and are willing to stand up for their beliefs.

Crazed Rabbit
07-04-2006, 01:30
Muslims who actually believe in the Koran are not "evil" just because they disagree with the secular majority and are willing to stand up for their beliefs.

You're right. They are evil when they stand up for and support evil and barbaric acts, not simply believing in Islam.

Nevertheless, your unflinching support for hatemongers worries me.

Crazed Rabbit

stalin
07-04-2006, 01:37
When I read the title i thought someone was gonna destroy the plants growing in my bedroom, phew!:no:

Aenlic
07-04-2006, 01:57
I'm pretty sure that Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols weren't related to or in any way connected with Muslims. The same thing goes for Eric Robert Rudolph, who bombed several abortion clinics and the Atlanta Olympics.

None of those three were radical immigrants, related to radical immigrants or even several generations removed from radical immigrants. They were truly "homegrown" terrorists, American to the bone.

Seems to me that your logic has a huge gaping hole in it wide enough to drive a bus into - and even turn the bus around. :grin:

Crazed Rabbit
07-04-2006, 02:37
Um, where did I say there is no danger from non-Muslim fanatics?

Crazed Rabbit

GoreBag
07-04-2006, 02:50
Nothing new. People either conform or they don't.

Divinus Arma
07-04-2006, 05:39
Die, Islamo-fascists, die.

:elephant:

Csargo
07-04-2006, 05:53
How can anyone hate Canada?

Lemur
07-04-2006, 07:34
Good question. I did find this discussion of Canada-hating (http://ubersite.com/m/18662), and I found it both poingant and subtle.

Canada sucks and I hate Canada. They is dumb not like us smart Americans. I hope Cananda blowed up on themselves. I know a Canadian and he hads shifty eyes. They are a society funded on lies because they call ham Canadian Bacon when they know it's just ham. Canada outlaws Howard Stern and took him off of the radio because they are scared of free thought. Canada has cheap prescription drugs to lure our elderly over the boarder . . . then they rape them. That last sentence is a true story, look it up in USA Today, it happens all the time. We can't trust Canada because they speak French and we can't understand that language. We all know how the Frenchies are ***** and Canadaians are the French peoples *****, so that makes Canada a bigger **** than a ****. And why do they always say "eh" at the end of there sentences? I think it's because they is "eh-holes". I also hate how they look down on you for finishing high school early with a GED because you wanted to get a real job. The other funny thing is that most of the teams in the NHL are losing money and the league is probably going to fold up next year. HAHAHA those stupid Canadians love hockey so much: What does a canadian girl and a hockey goalie have in common? They both change their pads after three periods eh? Canadians are also famously cheap: What's the difference between a Canadian and a canoe? Canoes tip. I hate everyone in Canada so I hope the all get herpes from sleeping with their snow dogs on cold nights. Pamela Anderson said she got Hepatitis C because she deserved it for being Canadian (that's what the C stands for). I've never wroten anything that other people would read before and I just got on the internet for the first time this week. I'm proud that all the world will read this and have a better understanding of Canada. I had to speak out against the evil-doers in Canada. Go to hell Canada, go to hell!!!

Banquo's Ghost
07-04-2006, 09:06
Wonderful, Lemur, just wonderful. :laugh4: :laugh4:

Rodion Romanovich
07-04-2006, 09:08
It seems that massive immigration and population mixing as a form of creating understanding between ethnical groups and fighting racism has had the opposite effect. It's tabboo to even utter a word that the immigrants should be thankful for coming to another country and getting everything payed for them without having to work, but if they come to a western country, get their lives payed by hard-working taxpayers, and then commit terrorist acts, then that's a pretty huge step from being thankful and it's IMO not too far off to ask if the fault isn't theirs for once, and isn't to be blamed on the local population for being "too racistic". I think it's clear that massive immigration doesn't help fighting racism and create understanding between ethnical, cultural and religious groups as much as a moderate immigration and aid to refugees (rather than the luxury-seeking immigrants who form the majority of current immigration, thus giving little or no room for the heavily suffering refugees) does. On the contrary, when the immigration becomes too massive and the local population are forced to take a stance of being ashamed of their culture and feeling like racists for having any culture or any desire at all that might conflict with immigrants, then it's a political suicide. Extremism (racism) isn't stopped by extremism in the other direction (self-denial and encouraging of racism towards one's own group), but by firmly staying in the middle between the two forms of extremism (being against all racism but not against anything which isn't racism), and fighting any attempt to divert from it (moral extremism, PC taboo and racism towards either of the groups). When we think it's shameful to think immigrants should be thankful for getting their lives payed so they can live in more luxury than many of the local population, and much better than our own retired living in the country, then we get this undesirable situation, where we allow anything, even terrorism, from them. On a social level, we don't even defend our right to live, but are ashamed of ourselves as a race, in a form of racism towards ourselves. And when that gives immigrants an advantage, the hatred among the local population masses grows. The local population keeps silent because of the taboo, until the hatred has grown too large. Protests should come as early as possible when there's unhappiness, or they tend to become more violent. Westerners start thinking of all arabs as terrorists and criminals, arabs start thinking of all westerners as war-mongers and worthless self-haters. The result is not desirable to anyone but weapons-factories.

The solution: 1. go against racism towards westerners in the same way as you go against racism towards other ethnicities (speeches against such racism, and using the laws of racial discrimination). 2. allow westerners to maintain their culture side by side with the immigrants, 3. western countries limiting their military actions in the middle east, 4. support muslims who are favoring a moderate islam over muslims who favor extremistic forms of islam, 5. make sure the immigrants are judged by the same law as the westerners and can get the same sentences (neither more nor less punishment), 6. send aid to countries with problems rather than encouraging massive immigration when there's a desire to help - immigrants cost a 100 times more than helping a single person in their home country, so accepting massive immigration is to kill 100 foreigners per immigrant, 7. make sure refugees constitute the majority of the immigration and firmly repel immigration of people who live well in their home countries but just seek luxury or protection against the law, 8. limit immigration so that the local population always remain a clear majority to ensure the local political ideology is preserved - we can't have all countries in the world having the same politics so it's necessary to preserve the ideological diversity so that it's possible to find a country to flee to if you dislike the politics of the local country (if the immigrants generally get more children than the local population it might be necessary to create laws against more than say 3 children per couple, or make sure the aid given to immigrant families is so small that they, just like most local families, are unable to have more than just a few children - so that the ideological diversity is maintained), 9. make sure the immigrants are so few and so diluted that they are integrated and are more likely to accept the local ideology so that ideological diversity is preserved.

King Ragnar
07-04-2006, 11:06
The worst thing is that people call these Home Grown, they are not 'Home' Grown, they are either immigrants or 2nd or 3rd generation immigrants, it made me sick when they were calling the London Bombers British, physically sick, how dare they even call them British Muslims, they should have said immigrant Bombers.

Futhermore i really dont understand how it isnt getting through to the stupid Governments of today that this whole immigration system isnt working, it creates problems like this, anyone who is bad mouthing the country they have immigrated to should be shot on sight , it makes me sick.

InsaneApache
07-04-2006, 11:20
I want one of these.

https://img61.imageshack.us/img61/5997/shatnercoin5ll.jpg (https://imageshack.us)

AntiochusIII
07-04-2006, 12:06
It's THEIR FAULT! EVERYTHING!

https://img85.imageshack.us/img85/862/canadianflag7si.jpg (https://imageshack.us)
https://img85.imageshack.us/img85/1773/southparkcanadaattack9rt.jpg (https://imageshack.us)

Banquo's Ghost
07-04-2006, 12:16
Futhermore i really dont understand how it isnt getting through to the stupid Governments of today that this whole immigration system isnt working, it creates problems like this, anyone who is bad mouthing the country they have immigrated to should be shot on sight , it makes me sick.

You're a cuddly little fella, aintcha? :freak:

King Ragnar
07-04-2006, 12:50
*hugs Banquos Ghost*

Tribesman
07-04-2006, 22:00
You're a cuddly little fella, aintcha?
He is just filling the gap while Panzer is gone .

Fragony
07-05-2006, 08:06
Ah yeah, trouble in the land of eternal sunshine and bulletproof rainbows. Let's do the usual thing and

http://www.bembelterror.de/frankfurt/blame-canada_flyer-front.gif

Now, what do the socioloco's have to say about it this time, what is it in Canada? Opression? Social exclusion? Language barrier? Teh right? Identity crisis? Not*sniff*....being....accepted:shame:

Or could it just be, ah well.

King Ragnar
07-05-2006, 11:46
You're a cuddly little fella, aintcha?
He is just filling the gap while Panzer is gone .

With Pleasure :2thumbsup:

GoreBag
07-05-2006, 16:21
I want one of these.

https://img61.imageshack.us/img61/5997/shatnercoin5ll.jpg (https://imageshack.us)

That's right. Captain Kirk is Canadian. We win.

Csargo
07-07-2006, 08:02
That gave me a good laugh Lemur.

Tribesman
07-07-2006, 23:29
With Pleasure
Those are rather large jackboots to fill Ragnar , are you sure you are up to the job ?
I will involve copious amounts of hate filled bile , can you manage it or will your brain kick in instead ?

King Ragnar
07-08-2006, 14:45
I can manage it because my brain has already kicked in and these views i have are most certainley not bile, just because it differs from yours everyone must raise hell about it, learn to accept others people's opinions ffs.

Aenlic
07-08-2006, 16:04
I can manage it because my brain has already kicked in and these views i have are most certainley not bile, just because it differs from yours everyone must raise hell about it, learn to accept others people's opinionsffs.

I love blatant hypocrisy. It's so easy to slap down.

From an earlier post of yours in this very thread!


anyone who is bad mouthing the country they have immigrated to should be shot on sight , it makes me sick.

I see. So which is it going to be?

A.) "learn to accept others people's opinions"

or

B.) "anyone who is bad mouthing the country they have immigrated to should be shot on sight"

Or is it only your opinions you want respected, not "other people's" opinions?

Your explanation should be interesting, in a "can't look away from the train wreck" interesting sort of way that is. :grin:

Tribesman
07-09-2006, 01:23
Aenlic , you are so cruel , how dare you take someones nonsense and show it up as nonsense:laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: