"Christian Skate Day" not allowed, says New York

[Crazed Rabbit]

Well, well, well. A double standard, anyone?

I expect everyone who defended 'Muslim Funday (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=66553)' to equally defend this.

Some might say that I can't have it both ways, but I will point out that my reasons for being against Muslim Funday stem more from the reasons behind such an event (see the thread above), and I doubt these skaters are trying to isolate themselves from society.

http://www.recordonline.com/archive/2006/06/27/news-pbchristian-06-27.html


No more holy roller rink
State slaps local biz for Christian skate times

By Paul Brooks
Times Herald-Record
pbrooks@th-record.com

Message Board: Should “Christian Skate Time” be allowed or banned

Accord - Holy roller skaters are in hot water with the state Division of Human Rights.

Skate Time 209 offers residents a new wooden roller skating rink and a fancy skateboard park. In its hunt for customers, the business has "tot" skates and "tween" (ages 6-13) skates. There are family nights and adult disco parties.

And there are "Christian skate times" on Sunday afternoons, Skate Time's ad in the April 19 Ulster County Press said. That ad is evidence of a human rights violation, according to the state Division of Human Rights.

A "Christian skate denies or at a minimum, discourages non-Christian patronage," a June 15 letter from the state division said. The weekly paper got the same letter, accusing it of "aiding and abetting" the violation, said its editor-at-large, Greg Childers.

"This is crazy," said the Rev. Lou Sheldon, director of the Traditional Values Coalition in Washington. "These people are exercising basic constitutional rights on private property to the exclusion of no one and the state government is treating them like dangerous criminals. "¦ This is political correctness run amok."

Len and Terry Bernardo own and run Skate Time 209 on Route 209. Sheldon said Terry Bernardo is on the coalition's mailing list, and called him when she got the state's letter. He advised her to get a good lawyer. She did. The couple has hooked up with the American Center for Law and Justice, a Washington firm which has argued conservative causes before the U.S. Supreme Court.

"My guy is out to make money," said their lawyer, Vincent McCarthy. "He is not going to shoot himself in the foot by excluding somebody."

McCarthy has sent the Human Rights division a letter maintaining the Bernardos did not and do not exclude non-Christians. He and the couple said they want to avoid a court fight.

The skating rink has changed its ad to refer to "spiritual skate times" on Sunday afternoons. The rink's Web site says "Christian" refers only to the type of music played during the sessions, and no one is discriminated against.

"We would like it to go away," Terry Bernardo said. "We're afraid if we make too big a stink, the state won't let it go."

It may be too late to play it down. Sheldon said more than 200 Internet sites have already picked up on the issue.

"I really believe this particular lawyer with the Division of Human Rights has bitten off more than she can chew," Sheldon said.

Crazed Rabbit

[Tribesman]

Thats disgusting , Skating on the sabbath , its ungodly .

[Navaros]

Too bad they are just using the word "Christian" to make profit and they don't have the cojones to actually discriminate against non-Christians who try to hijack their day.

Because of that, those guys running "Christian Skate Day" disgust me.

[GeneralHankerchief]

The whole idea was just dumb in the first place.

Unlike Muslim Funday, which significantly alters the environment of the specific area, Christian Skate Day's only change is the music, no? Heck, since we're a Judeo-Christian society, about the only thing they could change is the music.

Personally I think that'll drive more people away than it'll attract. There's no real incentive for hard-core Christians to come aside from the music, and it'll turn more people off because they're afraid that their park will be infested with bible-thumpers.

There should have been no reason for this brouhaha to be taken to the Division of Human Rights.

[Crazed Rabbit]

Navaros, how are Christians supposed to spread the Word of God and His love if they exclude people?

Personally, I can see this working as a business venture. It probably doesn't have a big impact, it is just another event at the skate park.

Crazed Rabbit

[Aenlic]

Stupid boneheaded ruling. Had the "Christian" skate day been taking place in a publicly funded government run facility then I might have a reason to bellyache about my tax-dollars being used to promote a particular religion. However, this was in a private skating rink. No tax dollars at issue, in a private setting. This is one of those "pop in the handy time-space machine and whack this official with a rolled-up newspaper while screaming 'What were you thinking?" at him" type issues. :no:

[Keba]

Again, like the Muslim funday ... what you do with your money is your problem. I truly see no point in this.

Although, how can the place work on the day of rest? Isn't that one against one of those silly commandments or whatnot?

[Incongruous]

Well I guess at least it wasn't all booked out by fanatical christians. Sheesus

[Banquo's Ghost]

Since it appears that the event was on private property, as a private event, I don't see why there was any problem. I don't see that there were shooting non-Christians on sight? Even if it were using public facilities, as long as non-Christian was able to attend if they wanted (can't imagine why, unless to be an irritant) I can't see a problem.

Banning this event is as stupid as getting upset about the Funday. Politicians need to relax and let people just get on together, or apart, as they wish.

Diversity is a good thing.

[Kralizec]

I expect everyone who defended 'Muslim Funday' to equally defend this.

Thank goodness, for a moment I thought you hoped we would confirm to your preconceived idea that we have a bias against christians :idea2:


Some might say that I can't have it both ways, but I will point out that my reasons for being against Muslim Funday stem more from the reasons behind such an event (see the thread above), and I doubt these skaters are trying to isolate themselves from society.

There's a difference between making an iron curtain between yourself and the rest of society, and by organising an event to galvanize cultural ties or mantain traditions. Both events are harmless and should be allowed.

[Cronos Impera]

Firstly, the owners have the right to select their clients. It's their own propriety and they've got the right to select their customers by whatever criteria they wish. Unlike this forum, that skate ring is PRIVATE PROPRIETY, not a PUBLIC PLACE.
Secondly, that's bad buisness and we shouldn't be so shocked.It's marketing man. If you created a sun cream for black people only, would you like to be called racist.
Political correctness is crap. A romanian motto for political correctness.
Let the neighbour's goat die too

[Quietus]

I think the difference here is that the Muslims in the "Muslim Funday" rented the whole place for their religious event.

Whereas in the "Christian Skate Day", no Christian group organized any party. It's only the business owner targetting Christian families that go out and pray together on Sunday.

It would like local cinema with a "Gay Movie Night" and the only difference is the lights are all pink and Barbara Streisand is blasting in the speakers, but the movie is still Superman. :dizzy2:

[InsaneApache]

Skating Christians, rollercoaster riding Moslems...what next, hang gliding Buddhist monks?

This religion thingymajingy sounds a hoot. :laugh4:

[doc_bean]

As long as they don't specifically disallow people from attending because of their religion, race, or secual orientation. I don't see a problem with this or the muslim funday.

If they make the other people feel uncomfortable because, let's say, they serve hot dogs, then it's not the organisations fault. They can even ban religious symbols or enforce a dress code for all I care.

[Husar]

Concerning the thing being on Sunday, on Sunday you should not work and rest, is rollerskating work???
I know many of you hate Christianity just because you have no idea, but if you have no idea, you might want to keep your senseless criticisms for yourselves, thanks.

To me this just sounds like a weird marketing gag and I don´t really see the problem.

[Reenk Roink]

How many times to you talk of "double standards" Crazed Rabbit... while clearly having some of your own?

Don't you get the fact that people who don't have problems with a "Muslim Funday" would have no problem with a "Christian Skate Day" as well?

One of the main arguments against "Muslim Funday" was that is discourages others from coming, hence being isolationist...

Well here is a nice little statement from the article:

"Christian skate denies or at a minimum, discourages non-Christian patronage"

:rolleyes2:

Anyone who has a problem with this or the Muslim version of it are...

[Spetulhu]

To me this just sounds like a weird marketing gag and I don´t really see the problem.

It sounds like a really BAD marketing gag at that. I've never heard of religious people (christians, that is) having a problem with skating among unbelievers. Anyone who can skate despite it not being mentioned in the bible should be reasonable enough to get along with others. Why would they be any more likely to show up if there's psalms coming from the PA system? It's not exactly uplifting music for physical activities. :inquisitive:

[Husar]

It sounds like a really BAD marketing gag at that. I've never heard of religious people (christians, that is) having a problem with skating among unbelievers. Anyone who can skate despite it not being mentioned in the bible should be reasonable enough to get along with others. Why would they be any more likely to show up if there's psalms coming from the PA system? It's not exactly uplifting music for physical activities. :inquisitive:
Well, a lot of American "christian" things are a mystery to me as well, but it´s a free land and if they decide to do that and don´t harm anyone, I don´t see a problem.
I´m also not trying to ban advertisements because I they would never make me buy the stuff and I think it´s bad marketing.
If their marketing is so bad, the company will go bankrupt or switch to better ideas, no need to ban anything.

[Spetulhu]

It sounds like a really BAD marketing gag at that.


Well, a lot of American "christian" things are a mystery to me as well, but it´s a free land and if they decide to do that and don´t harm anyone, I don´t see a problem.

No problem for me either. I just can't see why they'd even try something as lame as this, unless they hope to get some publicity. Any publicity is good, right?

[Tribesman]

Anyone who has a problem with this or the Muslim version of it are...
Stop it Reenk Roink , you are spoiling the fun .

[Mount Suribachi]

The fun that is vigourously defending the muslims in the other thread and merely making snide remarks in this one?

[Lemur]

Since it appears that the event was on private property, as a private event, I don't see why there was any problem.
Exactly. I'm not at all clear on how the State has any role to play in this situation. Private property. Private event. No State funding. How can the State even get involved? I'm missing something from this equation ...

[Red Peasant]

Skating Christians, rollercoaster riding Moslems...what next, hang gliding Buddhist monks?

This religion thingymajingy sounds a hoot. :laugh4:

Lol. My thought exactly. It all sounds a bit desperate though doesn't it.
"Hey, we're religious and really hip, yeah, cool dude, rock on with Jesus/Allah/Buddha/etc!"

[Silver Rusher]

How, exactly, is choosing different music to play at a session on a Sunday a violation of human rights? Whether you agree or disagree with the Christian session, that's all it boils down to.

[Kanamori]

Well:


July 01, 2006


State lets roller-rink owners skate by with Christian night

By Paul Brooks
Times Herald-Record
pbrooks@th-record.com
Accord - Holy roller skaters have escaped consignment to administrative hell.

The state Division of Human Rights this week dropped its inquiry into a "Christian Skate" at Skate Time 209.

Earlier this month, the state notified the skating rink on Route 209 that a Skate Time ad in the April 19 issue of the Ulster County Press mentioning its "Christian Skate" was evidence of discrimination.

Owners Len and Terry Bernardo immediately turned to Christian organizations for help. They got it.

The American Center for Law and Justice, a law firm that specializes in Christian issues and has taken cases all the way to the U.S. Supreme Court, sent the state Division of Human Rights a letter. It explained the Christian skate times were open to everyone and featured Christian music.

The Rev. Lou Sheldon of the Traditional Values Coalition spread word of the case over the Internet, which led to hundreds of media accounts, including the Times Herald-Record, and political pressure.

Something worked.

"I guess they were happy with our letter back to them and our explanation," said Len Bernardo. "I guess they figured out we weren't discriminating."

Officials from the Division of Human Rights did not return calls for comment this week.

But the division's June 28 letter said the Bernardos had changed the term "Christian Skate" to "spiritual skate." It also noted that the ad referred to Christian music and not the creed of any particular group of potential customers.

The rink's current ads don't appear to violate the law, a state lawyer said, so the matter is closed.

Len Bernardo said he is happy it is over. "It is the kind of issue that could convey we are radical extremists," he said. "We are not extremists in the least."

Bill Banuchi of Newburgh, a member of the Christian Coalition, said he expected the state to back down.

"What is sad is how vigilant we have to be about these issues," he said. "If we don't respond, the only place you will be able to hear about Christianity is in church Sunday morning."



http://www.recordonline.com/archive/2006/07/01/news-pbbackoff-07-01.html

[Lemur]

The rink's current ads don't appear to violate the law, a state lawyer said, so the matter is closed.
I'm still unclear on what law they thought was being broken in the first place.

[Lehesu]

I believe it's the same law that prevents enterprises (including private ones) from refusing or discouraging minorities (specifically black people) service. A tenuous link at best, but there you have it.

The next thing you know, the non-christain skaters will have to enter through the back and all hell breaks loose....:juggle2:

[doc_bean]

But the division's June 28 letter said the Bernardos had changed the term "Christian Skate" to "spiritual skate."

Pussies.