View Full Version : Church Builds "Statue of Liberation"
I don't think this (http://www.thestatueofliberationthroughchrist.org/home.htm) is wrong, or should be made illegal, but it's in incredibly poor taste. Short version: A Memphis church is building a 72-foot tall replica of the Statue of Liberty, replacing the torch with a cross, and putting the Ten Commandments in her book. Yet another group that does not understand our heritage. I swear, some people wouldn't even know how to spell "enlightenment," (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_Enlightenment) much less grasp its significance in our history.
Full article: (http://www.wmcstations.com/Global/story.asp?S=5096834)
Memphis church building Christian Statue of Liberty
June 29, 2006, 03:26 PM
MEMPHIS, Tenn. (AP) - A Memphis church will unveil this weekend a 72-foot-tall replica of the Statue of Liberty, except this Lady Liberty holds a cross instead of a torch.
World Overcomers Outreach Ministries Church is planning to unveil the statue that mixes Christian and American themes during a special Fourth of July ceremony at their 12,000-member church.
The Statue of Liberation also replaces the famous inscription with the lines "Give me your tired, your poor..." with Roman numerals representing the Ten Commandments.
Church pastor Apostle Alton R. Williams said that the seven spikes on her crown - originally representing the seven seas of the world - now signify the seven redemptive names of Christ.
A tear falling from her right eye represents her concern for America, Williams said. Church members said that the Statue of Liberation shows "America belonging to God through Jesus Christ."
"People don't talk about Christ anymore and our morals are gone," Williams said. "People cannot drive by our statue without thinking about their relationship with God."
But the $260,000 statue isn't a welcome sight for the entire community. Evelyn Douglass, 11, said she walks the long way home to avoid seeing the "big green thing."
"The Statue of Liberty is a symbol of the United States of America. The cross represents a specific religion," Douglass said. "It's not right that they are mixing the two. That church is trashing the meaning of America."
Across the street from the statue, Mapco Express manager Mary Preyer said she is looking forward to seeing it unveiled completely.
"I like the idea of the Statue of Liberty holding a cross representing freedom through Jesus Christ," Preyer said. "I just think its funding could have been put to better use for the neighborhood. It's definitely got people talking."
https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v489/Lemurmania/StatueOfLiberation.jpg
Kralizec
07-06-2006, 15:09
I don't think this is wrong, or should be made illegal, but it's in incredibly poor taste.
Agreed.
EDIT: any discussion about the statue of liberty is not complete without somebody mentioning that it's French.
The statue of liberty is French.
Avicenna
07-06-2006, 15:16
:laugh4:
The church is scared of losing ground yet again...
AntiochusIII
07-06-2006, 16:03
any discussion about the statue of liberty is not complete without somebody mentioning that it's French.
The statue of liberty is French. :laugh4:
I'm really sorry for the Europeans over there for having to tell you that 90-95% of Americans are likely to be unaware of Lady Liberty's sister on the banks of the Seine.
It's really sad in a way. And now this. :dizzy2:
https://img530.imageshack.us/img530/185/southparkmormons1ha.jpg (https://imageshack.us)
"Let's build the The Liberty Mary!"
I´m much more worried about that ufo in the background of the picture.:inquisitive:
In order that muslims not be offended the design has been changed somewhat...
http://212.43.196.62/pix/pix_rs/statue_liberte_voilee.jpg
...that rolled back sleeve could be a problem though. Have to get it covered...
GeneralHankerchief
07-06-2006, 19:17
Ugh.
Wrong in so many ways.
First of all, it's a complete misconstruing of the symbolism. The original statue represented freedom/a better life for all who came to America's borders. This bad boy is just a giant green fire-and-brimstone message. Like it's actually going to convert anyone anyway.
Second, it's a giant waste of money. Instead of building a controversial monument designed to bring them attention, the church could have made a donation to a worthy charity. While $260K is no Buffet, it's still a lot and could definitely help a few people. And I think I remember reading something in the Bible about Christ teaching the value of charity...
While I agree with Lemur's initial statement about this sort of thing shouldn't be made illegal (if it was, Dobson & co. would go nuts; more trouble than it's worth) I do believe it's wrong and in seriously bad taste.
solypsist
07-06-2006, 19:19
as long as federal and state funds are not used to build it*, i don't really care.
*or maintain it
yesdachi
07-06-2006, 22:33
People have built all sorts of crazy and extravagant crap in the name of their god/gods. It has actually been a while since we have had a really good big completely useless one. Maybe this will prompt another group to recreate the statue of Zeus or make another pyramid. This could be better than charity; they would be providing new jobs for hundreds.
Alexander the Pretty Good
07-07-2006, 00:18
That's overdoing it.
a religious group creating a statue to celebrate ......"liberation"? :laugh4:
gotta love the irony....:book:
Big_John
07-07-2006, 00:56
as long as federal and state funds are not used to build it*, i don't really care.
*or maintain itsame
Papewaio
07-07-2006, 00:59
I can't wait to see what JJ and the rest of the Porn stars do with the Eiffel Tower. :laugh4:
This is truely sad in so many ways.
Byzantine Prince
07-07-2006, 01:48
"Do not make a sculpted image or any likeness of what is in the heavens above..."
This prohibits the construction or fashioning of "idols" in the likeness of created things (beasts, fish, birds, people) and worshipping them.
How ironic. :shame:
Alexander the Pretty Good
07-07-2006, 01:52
How ironic.
Not really. I don't think they're worshipping it. Just wasting loads of dough on it.
Exactly Alexander they could be using that money for something better like helping people.
I'm not surprised. Have you ever looked into some of the stuff being taught as "truth" by Christian religious extremists these days? I became curious, so I actually ordered a homeschooling textbook from one of the most widely-used homeschooling book supplies, called Alpha-Omega Publications. The one I ordered is called American Literature.
Can't be that bad, right?
My reaction upon reading the teacher's guide can best be described as:
:jawdrop:
Let me give you a few examples:
Included in the Curriculum overview is the following objective:
"The student will learn how to critique the philosophy of each author from a Christian perspective."
:inquisitive: Ruh roh!
Upon deeper examination I find sentences such as:
"The series is designed to enlarge the Christian's understanding of the development of Western Civilization while strengthening him or her in the faith."
~:rolleyes:
"The exercises take work. But in the end, the student will reap a bounty of knowledge, understanding and wisdom to the glory of God."
I'm not making this stuff up. This is in the most popular homeschool textbook series.
Here's an example test question from one of the tests in the series.
"Christians must think about and _______ what an author is trying to say about God, humanity and the world, always comparing what we read with the timeless truths of the Scripture."
There is a list of words to fill in the blanks in this section. "Analyze" is the word which matches most closely.
So we get to things like, oh... the writings of Ralph Waldo Emerson. The Christians don't appear to like Emerson's transcendentalism much. In the "Discussion and Thought" section which ends each area of study:
"Guide your student in a discussion of the differences between transcendentalism and Biblical truth. Help the student to understand that the Bible is given to use by God and is our rule for truth, life and godliness."
It's like that throughout. They pick and chose writings to support their view and trash a few which can be used to dismiss opposing views, and utterly ignore anything else. They spend an amazing amount of time trying to prove that Deists weren't Deists and that the USA was founded as a Christian nation.
So don't be surprised when a Christian religious group makes a statue of Liberty which has a cross instead of a torch. It has always been the way of religion, replace the light of knowledge with the darkness of ideology. :grin:
Alexander the Pretty Good
07-07-2006, 02:34
"The student will learn how to critique the philosophy of each author from a Christian perspective."
Ruh roh!
Uh. Duh? :inquisitive:
How sensational, Aenlic! Christians viewing literature from the eyes of the cornerstone of their faith! Damn those radicals!
~:rolleyes: Seriously. ~:rolleyes:
I bet if you ordered a feminist textbook it would look at literature from the perspetive of leading feminist thought, as well as be partial to works that support that teaching.
Excellent and bombastic dismissal of evangelical Christians in the United States. It could use just a bit more generalizations, but still, a solid Backroom performance.
:2thumbsup:
Uh. Duh? :inquisitive:
How sensational, Aenlic! Christians viewing literature from the eyes of the cornerstone of their faith! Damn those radicals!
~:rolleyes: Seriously. ~:rolleyes:
I bet if you ordered a feminist textbook it would look at literature from the perspetive of leading feminist thought, as well as be partial to works that support that teaching.
Excellent and bombastic dismissal of evangelical Christians in the United States. It could use just a bit more generalizations, but still, a solid Backroom performance.
:2thumbsup:
:laugh4:
Papewaio
07-07-2006, 03:50
There is a difference between teaching someone to be an independent free thinker and someone who is a dogmatic follower.
It's the difference between democracy and communism.
It's the difference between intelligence and pre-programmed.
You're missing the point, Alexander. I was quoting from a textbook which is one of the most widely distributed textbooks to homeschoolers. It's flat out brainwashing. They even went so far in one section, which I deemed too long to quote, as to say that Ralph Waldo Emerson was a - GASP - pantheist! A pantheist! Absolute crap, disguised as teaching. It is indefensible. The book is full of worse; but I only included the shorter bits for the sake of brevity.
That's why the extremist religions are so dead set on getting homeschooling paid for with my taxes. That way they can subsidize this blatant propagandizing in the guise of teaching.
Kids are easily influenced. The extremists go on and on about the "bad" influences of modern culture and video games and Hollywood and TV. And yet, as I proved, they are clearly going way beyond influencing those young minds in textbooks like these. That isn't teaching. It's brainwashing, plain and simple.
The extremists, when they can't get the teaching of evolution theory tossed out completely, rant and rave about how Intelligent Design should be taught alongside evolution - to present a "balanced" view and offer those poor undereducated children the benefits of a broader educations. They want to offer both sides, that's all! Just being fair! Uh huh. And yet, when we take a look inside what they'd really like to teach it's about as balanced as a 3-legged 2 ton elephant on a tightrope.
Tell me where to order this hypothetical "feminist" textbook. Sounds interesting. If you go to about 90% of the homeschooling websites, guess which textbook publisher is used? The one I used as an example. Seen any feminist homeschool textbooks lately? We're not talking pamphlets and such here. We're talking about the most widely distributed homeschooling textbooks in the USA. No. Bad argument.
I'm beginning to suspect such homeschooling in some backroom pasts. It's very sad. :no:
I'm a little dissapointed. I would have went with her holding an M16 and smoking a cigar. Maybe put a giant chain necklace with a diamon encrusted gold cross with platinum dusting on her neck. You know, to keep it real.
I'm a little dissapointed. I would have went with her holding an M16 and smoking a cigar. Maybe put a giant chain necklace with a diamon encrusted gold cross with platinum dusting on her neck. You know, to keep it real.
:laugh4:
That's an awesome idea in the original post.
They should make those changes to the first Statue of Liberty, also.
In 100 years, another Church X will claim that the internet was made for religious purpose....
In the late half of the 20th century, people needed to spread the word of God a little more faster. Hence the internet was born. The WEB (short for Worship Encouragement Bureau) fulfilled this need. In fact, typing "dot com" (short for "doth communion") means you are professing your faith in God.
:laugh4:
rory_20_uk
07-07-2006, 13:12
There is a difference between teaching someone to be an independent free thinker and someone who is a dogmatic follower.
It's the difference between democracy and communism.
It's the difference between intelligence and pre-programmed.
Are you implying that democracies begat intelligence? I don't see much of that round here. Although I'd accept that we're trying to phase democracy out as much as possible.
~:smoking:
In 100 years, another Church X will claim that the internet was made for religious purpose....
In the late half of the 20th century, people needed to spread the word of God a little more faster. Hence the internet was born. The WEB (short for Worship Encouragement Bureau) fulfilled this need. In fact, typing "dot com" (short for "doth communion") means you are professing your faith in God.
:laugh4:
Ack! Now I'm going to have nightmares. Thanks! :wink:
Oddly enough, I just finished re-reading Neal Stevenson's Snow Crash last night. Talk about synchronicity. The parallels, while not obvious, are still there.
1)waste of money
2)looks stupid
3)Technicly idolitry
4)Eye-roller for anyone who isnt Christian.....
5)....or is a christian with a sense of taste.
6)if you really wanted to build a stature re-build the collosus of rhodes
yesdachi
07-07-2006, 15:44
Kind of interesting, a friend of mine just went to see a 19 story cross (http://crossministries.net/)(he was passing thru, it was not his destination).
The pics he sent me are better then theirs. God needs to teach them how to build a better website.
Big_John
07-07-2006, 18:19
Kind of interesting, a friend of mine just went to see a 19 story cross (http://crossministries.net/)(he was passing thru, it was not his destination).
The pics he sent me are better then theirs. God needs to teach them how to build a better website.blasphemer! god built that website!
yesdachi
07-07-2006, 18:25
blasphemer! god built that website!
Well, I had heard that Jesus was a builder. :wink:
In 100 years, another Church X will claim that the internet was made for religious purpose....
the web mas made for the free distribution and exchanging of porn.....everybody knows that...
so...."religious purpose" ain´t very far from the truth :laugh4: ~:pimp: ~:thumb:
Red Peasant
07-07-2006, 19:40
Are you implying that democracies begat intelligence? I don't see much of that round here. ~:smoking:
You shouldn't be so hard on yourself, Rory. :laugh4:
Your hatred of democracy is so entrenched that you never miss a chance to sneer at it. Why don't you move to some autocratic paradise? Saudi Arabia, China, North Korea, the tyrannies of the world are your oyster my friend!
rory_20_uk
07-07-2006, 19:56
Life is so much easier in a state that follows the behest of the mundane morons.
I am not against democracy. But for it to work requires greater minds than are in most.
Autocracies are less slowed down by having to listen to the facade of elected officials.
~:smoking:
Avicenna
07-07-2006, 21:39
the web mas made for the free distribution and exchanging of porn.....everybody knows that...
so...."religious purpose" ain´t very far from the truth :laugh4: ~:pimp: ~:thumb:
:idea2:
God said, "let there be the internet!"
and there was free porn.
but not all porn is free.
Alexander the Pretty Good
07-07-2006, 23:15
You're missing the point, Alexander. I was quoting from a textbook which is one of the most widely distributed textbooks to homeschoolers. It's flat out brainwashing. They even went so far in one section, which I deemed too long to quote, as to say that Ralph Waldo Emerson was a - GASP - pantheist! A pantheist! Absolute crap, disguised as teaching. It is indefensible. The book is full of worse; but I only included the shorter bits for the sake of brevity.
Aenlic - There is plenty of brainwashing in public education, too. It's merely the accepted brainwashing. From the shorter quotes that you included, I see no real evidence that there is brainwashing going on; simply a change of point of view from conventional secular textbooks. I don't actually have experiance with homeschoolers' textbooks, so I can't say if the rest is worse.
And from wikipedia:
Emerson was strongly influenced by the Vedas, and much of his writing has strong shades of nondualism.
I don't actually remember stuff from my *secular* English classes about Emerson (boring subject! ~;p) but if some of his works reflect elements of Hindu faith, it isn't too far of a stretch to call Emerson a pantheist - which is pretty much the Christian view of Hinduism.
That's why the extremist religions are so dead set on getting homeschooling paid for with my taxes. That way they can subsidize this blatant propagandizing in the guise of teaching.
And duck the sometimes overtly anti-religious teachings in public school. It varies from school to school and teacher to teacher, of course, but at least some home schooling parents do so because of a bad experiance with the local public school. And I'm sure you can find more things you don't like about how your taxes are being spent. What's wrong with a little more? :sweatdrop:
Kids are easily influenced. The extremists go on and on about the "bad" influences of modern culture and video games and Hollywood and TV. And yet, as I proved, they are clearly going way beyond influencing those young minds in textbooks like these. That isn't teaching. It's brainwashing, plain and simple.
See above. All teaching of young children is brainwashing.
Tell me where to order this hypothetical "feminist" textbook. Sounds interesting. If you go to about 90% of the homeschooling websites, guess which textbook publisher is used? The one I used as an example. Seen any feminist homeschool textbooks lately? We're not talking pamphlets and such here. We're talking about the most widely distributed homeschooling textbooks in the USA. No. Bad argument.
Google du jour:
http://www.oup.co.uk/oxfordtextbooks/feminism/
http://www.apa.udel.edu/apa/archive/newsletters/v97n1/feminism/recent.asp
I was using it as a hypothetical example. I love it when reality matches my guess. :grin:
Feminism isn't going to be a major textbook flavor for grade schoolers, and only begin to show up in high school. However, I think I could find some fairly anti-American (or, conversely, pro-American) textbooks that could be considered "brainwashing" material.
I'm beginning to suspect such homeschooling in some backroom pasts. It's very sad.
Where were you educated? And what a lovely sentiment: two implied generalizations, unless I miss my guess. Firstly, all homeschooled people are stupid. Second, people who disagree with me were homeschooled.
I wasn't, by the way. ~;p
Aenlic - There is plenty of brainwashing in public education, too. It's merely the accepted brainwashing. From the shorter quotes that you included, I see no real evidence that there is brainwashing going on; simply a change of point of view from conventional secular textbooks. I don't actually have experiance with homeschoolers' textbooks, so I can't say if the rest is worse.
Trust me. The rest is worse. Much worse. I only included the short, easily typed parts. I could have included the longer sections in the "discussion and thought" portions of the teacher's guide. They basically amount to read the author and then discuss why the Bible is right and the author is a good little Christian, or why the author is wrong and a good little Christian will always believe the Bible first and foremost when someone disagrees with it.
And from wikipedia:
Emerson was strongly influenced by the Vedas, and much of his writing has strong shades of nondualism
I don't actually remember stuff from my *secular* English classes about Emerson (boring subject! ~;p) but if some of his works reflect elements of Hindu faith, it isn't too far of a stretch to call Emerson a pantheist - which is pretty much the Christian view of Hinduism.
Umm, no. You're off on the wrong tangent here. That reference to the Vedas isn't about polytheism versus monotheism. It's not about Hinduism. It's about the Vedic ideas of dualism versus the Christian ideas of dualism. It's a different thing altogether. I understand the confusion. If you tell most Christians that they're dualists, they'll just look at you like a dog who has been shown a magic trick (sorry been listening to the late comedian Bill Hicks' CD's lately). Dualism is the idea of good and evil. Emerson was well-educated and a Unitarian minister, not a Hindu. His ideas were more monist than dualist. It's a very deep subject and I'd be happy to get into it with you. Sadly, this misunderstanding of dualism is what I think led the Christian textbook to call him a pantheist. Entirely incorrect.
And duck the sometimes overtly anti-religious teachings in public school. It varies from school to school and teacher to teacher, of course, but at least some home schooling parents do so because of a bad experiance with the local public school. And I'm sure you can find more things you don't like about how your taxes are being spent. What's wrong with a little more? :sweatdrop:
It's not that things are anti-religious in public schools. They're supposed to be without any particular leaning. It's that whole separation thing. If a public school leans too far one way, then it can be guilty of promoting a particular religious view. As a government institution, they aren't supposed to promote (establish) a religion. That's another discussion too. You'll notice how very careful the constructionist-stacked court has been over the last few years to avoid actually hearing the merits of such cases. They tossed Newdow out on a technicality; but he'll be back now representing parents with standing. :wink: The so-called constructionists and original intent mavens on the court know very well that if they have to hear that case on its merits then they'll be facing a dilemna in which their (Scalia in particular) staunch religious views come smack up against the very clear intent of the framers of the constitution.
And, yes, that's why a lot of homeschooling takes place. Parents want to be able to indoctrinate their children without any opposing views which might make their children question the indoctrination.
See above. All teaching of young children is brainwashing.
Not really. If teaching is done with the intent to create an inquisitive attitude and an open mind in the child then it can't really be brainwashing. Otherwise it would defeat itself. Now some teaching is brainwashing. Teaching which strives to limit or retard inquisitive, investigative learning is brainwashing. On that, I'll agree.
Google du jour:
http://www.oup.co.uk/oxfordtextbooks/feminism/
http://www.apa.udel.edu/apa/archive/newsletters/v97n1/feminism/recent.asp
I was using it as a hypothetical example. I love it when reality matches my guess. :grin:
Feminism isn't going to be a major textbook flavor for grade schoolers, and only begin to show up in high school. However, I think I could find some fairly anti-American (or, conversely, pro-American) textbooks that could be considered "brainwashing" material.
We're talking about children here. Not adults in college. Show me a feminist textbook from somewhere other than a college course, please. I can take college courses in the history of rock and roll, underwater basket weaving, Kirlian photography, even sexology and the history of pornography. Those are college courses. I even had an English Literature course once, that was taught entirely using science fiction works. :grin:
Primary and secondary education are something quite different. Attempting to portray college textbooks as being somehow related to the issue at hand isn't very helpful to the debate. :no:
Where were you educated? And what a lovely sentiment: two implied generalizations, unless I miss my guess. Firstly, all homeschooled people are stupid. Second, people who disagree with me were homeschooled.
I wasn't, by the way. ~;p
I was schooled in public schools, of course. I was raised as a Methodist and as a Catholic (thpse mixed marriages are a real pain. :wink:), if you mean religious education. I went to college at Rice University and the University of Texas. And I read - a lot. I average a book every 2 days. I think that covers the first part of your question.
In the second part of that. When did I say that all homeschooled people are stupid? And when did I say that people who disagree with me are homeschooled? Unless my words, when converted to binary, somehow spell out the above in Morse code, I'm pretty sure I didn't say either one.
Watching any National Spelling Bee or National Geography Bee will lead one to the conclusion that perhaps homeschooling isn't such a bad thing after all. Upon closer examination, however, one might also conclude that there might be differences between Christian-based homeschooling and non-Christian homeschooling focused on intellectual investigation and advancement rather than building a tough dogmatic wall against anything contrary to the Word of God. :grin:
Any other questions for me?
I'm not surprised. Have you ever looked into some of the stuff being taught as "truth" by Christian religious extremists these days? I became curious, so I actually ordered a homeschooling textbook from one of the most widely-used homeschooling book supplies, called Alpha-Omega Publications. The one I ordered is called American Literature.
So, you ordered a fundamentalist Christian textbook looking for something to be outraged/offended about in it...... and you found something to be outraged/offended about in it. Congratulations. :book:
one of the most widely-used homeschooling book suppliesWhat are you basing that statement on?
What are you basing that statement on?
Look them up. Alpha Omega Publications is one of the largest and most popular homeschool suppliers - not just Christian. I didn't choose them because they were Christian-based. I choose them because they appeared on every homeschool web site in the curriculum publishers listings. Look on any homeschool site for curriculum and you'll find: Lifepac curriculum, Switched-On Schoolhouse, Kingdom Under the Sea games and Weaver curriculum, among others. All are AOP. As a matter of fact look up their parent holding company, Glynlyon Inc. too.
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