Photoshopping - Faction icons as Marble Reliefs

[Teleklos Archelaou]

I've been trying to make the faction icons look different for each culture grouping. In other words, if you are playing as an eastern greek faction, the theme is mosaics. And from your point of view - across the top of the screen, and in your diplomacy section, the faction icons look like mosaics. Here is an example (the eastgreek mosaics on the left, and the linen nomadic culture icons on the right):

https://img488.imageshack.us/img488/5986/diplomacy10gf.jpg

So what I've been trying for now is a marble in relief variant set for the greeks (epeiros/kh/maks). I haven't had much luck so far. I'm not sure if a color layer on top of the marble will be good, but that's the easy part - the hard part is making them really look like relief cuttings on marble, and still look good (that's what I'd like some advice on if anyone might have it).

Anyone know of a good tutorial for making a filter for this? Or have advice on what the settings should be? Here is the current attempt:

https://img323.imageshack.us/img323/603/greekmarble14ri.jpg
https://img275.imageshack.us/img275/7903/greekmarble26vn.png
(these are the 'flat' versions of our icons - without textures to get in the way)

I'm using three layers, a base marble one for the background, then the icons in two layers. The upper one is just for color, and the lower one has a bevel and emboss effect, with an inner bevel (chisel hard). It's really pronounced on the Aedui icon and Pontos one. But it still just doesn't look like real marble at all. Anyone got experience with this sort of thing? Any advice?

edit: examples of what I'm talking about:
http://members.tripod.com/maharaniofjaipur/201d6360.jpg
http://www.photo.net/philg/digiphotos/200103-d1-agra/marble-relief-sunset-at-taj-mahal.half.jpg
http://www.artlex.com/ArtLex/m/images/monogram_chirho.lg.jpg

[shifty157]

Try putting the bevel on the outside or using a pillow emboss. I would also suggest having translucent layer on top of the symbols to make them more muttled and make the colors more uniform. What I mean is take your backround marble layer and copy it and put it in front of everything. Then lower the opacity to fifty percent or lower. Combine with a general desaturation of the colors (again to make them more muttled and uniform) and perhaps increase the brightness if theyre too dark. You want them closer to white than to grey or black.

You could also try reducing the opacity of the symbols themselves so they blend into the marble background more.

Those are just osme ideas to try out. I have no idea how theyll look but i think those should get you on the right track.

[Wardo]

I don't know squat about photoshop, but TA, that's IMPRESSIVE! :2thumbsup: ~:thumb: :bow:

[Obelics]

well, i know this is a Help-Request Thread, so i shouldn't spam it with my WOW! anyway i cant go more than edit some pictures and to add some effects in Photoshop, but i want to say the idea is just GENIAL! so i hope you come to understand how to obtain what you want or obtain some help, and can make this appear in the next versions....

[orwell]

I like the mosiac tiles, but will the setting of the tiles look so rough between each one? It looks like something you might find now, rather than the work of art it was when it was made. Sorry I can't help, and my photoshop guru just went back to give his reports to the commies, though I'll look around.

[Teleklos Archelaou]

Those mosaic tiles are a little large, but the problem is this: you can either have something that looks exactly like mosaic tiles, but then depending on how large you make them, they will either be too small to see (if you want the icon to look like what it really is) or if they are big enough to be seen then the icon will be deformed. If the icons were huge, this wouldn't be a problem - but they are quite small actually (lifesize in the pic). So I didn't actually make those into mosaic, but put a mosaic layer over them, and adjusted things like brightness, saturation, etc. to make it look more like a mosaic, without actually being one. There is a line between having something that is absolutely authentic (or as close as cpu can make it) and having something that is visually appealing. We'd like both, but they don't always intersect, so we try to make it where it looks like a mosaic, but the icon is still easily visible too.

We have another big thing in the mod you'll learn about soon where we had a similar problem, and I think our end result is one where we have a great result that is authentic enough but at the same time appealing to our players. (these GUI's are one great example of this though - the roman one was way too harsh at first, but I toned it down too and it's more acceptable now - playing with very strong and jarring red and black GUI backgrounds was just too much to expect of our fans.)

[shifty157]

Any luck?

[pezhetairoi]

I found the mosaic rather nice as it was, really. the tiles are big enough to clearly state that it is a mosaic. anything smaller would only suggest, or worse, never even suggest a mosaic.

[Big_John]

TA, have you tried embossing a grayscale version of each icon, then maybe doing a linear or hardlight overlay? if you're going for a look similar to those links, i don't think color will work with images this small.. not an expert though.

[Teleklos Archelaou]

Got a little sick - though I'm still posting and playing a little, my energy is way down. Will get back to this soon though I hope. I appreciate the advice, seriously. Thanks guys.

[Obelics]

have some rest man, do not consumate too much energies!

[-Praetor-]

have some rest man, do not consumate too much energies!

I agree, health`s first.

The mod can wait. Not much, but it can. Besides, you aren`t very productive on that state.

Now, go back to the bed, boy! :furious3:

[edyzmedieval]

I agree, health`s first.

The mod can wait. Not much, but it can. Besides, you aren`t very productive on that state.

Now, go back to the bed, boy! :furious3:

I can bet 1000$$$ greeners he's older than you. :balloon2:

Have some rest Teleklos. Just one or 2 days, then you can start again. Seriously, we need a healthy Teleklos, not a Teleklos-wreck. :skull:

[BlackAxe3001]

Long time reader, first post.

I would say the one on the right looks more like canvas and the one on the left looks more like tiles. The tiles look pretty good as they are. Too bad I haven't done any real photoshop work in years, otherwise I would be of more help.

[Teleklos Archelaou]

Yeah, that's what I was going for on the mosaic vs. linen/burlap/canvas/whatever image. Left is tile and right is fabric.

[hoom]

This (http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showpost.php?p=1083576&postcount=23) looks like the sort of effect you are after? Have a chat with that guy on how he made it maybe?

[Teleklos Archelaou]

Thanks for pointing that out. Just seeing something sometimes helps. I'm still working on them (and the barb ones), but I appreciate the help folks have sent my way. It hasn't led to a finished product yet though. :grin:

[-Praetor-]

https://img211.imageshack.us/img211/4117/previewcopywr9.jpg

What`s the relationship between Sarmatia---Dolphins??? :help:

[shifty157]

What`s the relationship between Sarmatia---Dolphins??? :help:

The Sarmatian army being comprised of mostly steppe nomads obviously veered in the direction of mounted horse archers as we all know. Well in the areas around the Black and Caspian sea, the ability to access these vast fields of water for military purposes was an undeniable advantage. Therefore, it was only a matter of time before the Sarmatians domesticated a seaworthy mount similar to the horses they were used to. And thus arose the famed and feared nomadic mounted dolphin archers.

Youll find many references to these troops being used to great affect by the Sarmatians who specialized in mobility and ranged combat. I believe you can find some motifs of these warriors on Hadrian's column. Ultimately however, coinciding with the arrival of civilization and sedentary living the tuna fishing industry in the area began to boom. In their craze to tap the seemingly limitless wealth of tuna fish contained within the Black sea, merchants cast thousands of nets and inadvertently caught these wild dolphins which the sarmatians had domesticated as mounts in their nets. As the tuna fish industry continued to boom, the dolphin populations dropped off dramaticly. The indescriminate hunting quickly lead to the disappearance of the wild herds of dolphins that once roamed the Sarmatian Black sea and the ultimate end to the mounted dolphin archer warrior tradition.

I hope that helps. If you want more information Im sure you can find something at your local library.

[Teleklos Archelaou]

The sacred scrolls were right: Beware the beast man, for he is the Devil's pawn. Alone among God's creatures, he kills for sport or lust or greed. Yea, he will murder his dolphin to possess his dolphin's land. Let him not breed in great numbers, for he will make a desert of his home and that of the dolphin as well (even if it be the ocean). Shun him; drive him back into his jungle lair, for he is the harbinger of death and dolphicide.

Those greedy Sarmatians. You Maniacs! You blew it up! Ah, damn you! God damn you all to hell!

[Cybvep]

Are mounted dolphin archers out of mod's timeframe? If not, what about armoured dolphin archers reform?

[Lusted]

For those of you ridiculing the use of a dolphin shaped image for sarmatia, the sarmatians did use dolphin shaped coins:

http://www.forumancientcoins.com/catalog/zoompg.asp?id=8811

The icons posted above are being used in my new Alexandros mod for the Alexander add-on for RTW.

[shifty157]

Its ok Lusted. I never doubted your research. Its just that I found the thought of nomadic mounted dolphin archers entirely too humorous to pass up.

[Angadil]

For those of you ridiculing the use of a dolphin shaped image for sarmatia, the sarmatians did use dolphin shaped coins:

http://www.forumancientcoins.com/catalog/zoompg.asp?id=8811

The icons posted above are being used in my new Alexandros mod for the Alexander add-on for RTW.

Sorry, Lusted, not meaning to be too critical, but that numismatic site seems to have led you astray. I really don't know why numismatic sites are so incredibly fond of the very misguiding "Sarmatia, Olbia" label (I've run across it lots and lots of times...). The region where Olbia stood was included in the area later called "Sarmatia", but Olbian coinage has nothing to do with Sarmatians at all.

Olbia was, and remained, essentially a Greek town. Those dolphin coins are very distinctive of the Olbian *Greeks*. Take a look at this Wikipedia article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olbia%2C_Ukraine) (seems reasonably correct) for some additional info. The Sarmatians, as far as I know, never minted coins, at least at this time in their history. They never maintained the kind of required control over "civilized" cities with mints for long enough.

Furthermore, take a look at the dates the website gives for those dolphin coins: well into VI BCE. At that time there were no Sarmatians anywhere near Olbia. Both archaeology and Herodotos firmly place them east of the Don River. They only expanded westwards quite later and not even at the beginning of III BCE they controlled the area where Olbia is placed. The region near the mouth of the Dniepr was the last Scythian stronghold in the Pontic steppe. That is for the hinterland. The city itself was never under Sarmatian control.

That said, I'm really happy to see 2 nomadic factions in your Alexander mod ~D

[Lusted]

Well CrazedClown who is doing the symbols for my ATW mod had trouble finding symbols relevant to Sarmatia, and that is the best he could find. And before you point out the problem with the Buddha symbol for India, its going to be replaced by an elephant.

[Teleklos Archelaou]

Angadil - the sig banner isn't occultus anymore (just noticed that).

https://img96.imageshack.us/img96/4859/logosakae28vo.jpg

[Angadil]

Well CrazedClown who is doing the symbols for my ATW mod had trouble finding symbols relevant to Sarmatia, and that is the best he could find. And before you point out the problem with the Buddha symbol for India, its going to be replaced by an elephant.
Symbols that were culturally important for the Sarmatians were the dragon (what EB used) and the sword (hard to fit inside a round icon, I know...). Also, tamgas, initially ownership marks that eventually evolved into almost a sort of heraldry could be adequate. If you guys want, I could send a few examples of Sarmatian art. Just PM me.

@TA, Thanks for pointing that out! I had totally forgotten...:laugh4: