EB vs. RTR

[GiftOfForesight]

I haven't played Rome in awhile and I want to start playing a game and stick with it. I'm having a hard time finding a comprehensive list of features for each. So if you could "sell" me each mod (or the one you like more) and list the reasons why, that would be very helpful.

[edyzmedieval]

EB is the way to go overall. :2thumbsup:
It's still in BETA, but it's stable(I had no CTD's with it).

It includes tons and tons of features, ranging from superb units, to new buildings and an excellent campaign map.

Europa Barbarorum Official Website (https://www.europabarbarorum.com)

[econ21]

It's a fair question but unfortunately, this kind of thread (setting up one mod "versus" another) always seems to quickly degenerate into juvenile posturing and derogatory remarks. I guess it's a matter of de gustibus non disputandum (aka apples and pears). But it's particularly strange in the case of these two mods because I find them remarkably similar in aim and execution, so IMO any reasonable person who likes one should really also appreciate the other.

Here's something I wrote sometime back on the comparison between EB and RTR:


For what it is worth, my impression so far is that the mods have a very similar underlying philosophy. They aim at making RTW more realistic, both by altering the content (maps, units etc) and the combat system (kill speeds, morale levels, balance of arms etc). In this, I think they both succeed very well. I've played both and greatly admire them for this. The units look great and the combat feels "right", as well as having the more deliberate feel of the combat I enjoyed in STW and MTW.

My impression so far is that EB has more historical research and work so that it deviates rather more from vanilla than RTR. However, RTR is still in progression. For example, RTR 6.2 has done a lot of work on the Romans and Germans, but the Gauls for one could use a little more love and will apparently get that in 7.0.

In terms of the combat system, they use different ways of getting there but I have found RTR 6.0 and EB rather similar in terms of how long heavy infantry melees last and how effective missiles are etc. If anything I'd say cavalry is rather more powerful (and relatively cheaper) in EB than RTR 6.0 but I am happy with either representation.

Both mods also aim to restrict or slow the recruitment of units outside of your factions natural "homelands". Again, they have different ways of doing this but they both work to a similar effect and add to the game's realism, and difficulty level. They also do some other stuff to raise the challenge - e.g. making the economy tighter and giving the player's general's less command stars.

Both mods alter naval combat to make it better. In RTR 6.0, tweaking the stats has made naval combat more bloody and decisive. In EB, fleets are very expensive and so again the combat is more decisive. Different means, similar result. I guess that's a theme of this comparison?

The mods have rather different campaign maps. IIRC, RTR took the area covered by the vanilla map [CORRECTION: apparently, they extended it to the east] and increased the number of provinces. My impression is that EB has a roughly similar number of provinces in the original RTW area but has extended the map south and especially east. Again, different approaches but similar result - a bigger sandpit to play in!

Both mods have unified the Romans and dropped the Senate (reviewer sheds a quick tear at the loss of the fun Senate missions). They have rather different faction line ups - they both represent the "big players" of the period but, if you want to play the ancient Britons, don't play RTR. If you want to play the Numidians, don't play EB. etc

EB have done some very fun things with the trait system and related stuff. Some generals can compete in the Olympics, others get triumphs etc. Some factions don't even have offspring anymore but choose generals through a "man of the hour". RTR seems more like vanilla in these respects, IIRC. On a related point, EB have changed the faction victory conditions whereas RTR still requires "conquer 50 provinces" (making playing the 40 province Seleucids rather a short game).

Finally, EB is a beta whereas RTR is a more finished product that has been patched many times. I can't recall encountering a CTD in RTR (well, I lie - I think it was in 6.0 - I won as Rome and was rewarded with a CTD! anti-climatic at the time but at least, I'd finished my campaign). However, I am getting daily or more crashes with EB (I'm around 243 BC in my Roman game). I can work around them, but it is taking a lot of willpower to keep playing. There are also other aspects of EB that seem frustrating because it is a beta - for example, AI bribery of my towns is making my game not fun (taking a city once is fine, but having to keep retaking it due to some diplomat is not so great).

Bottomline - I think they are both amazing mods. Incredibly ambitious and with ambitions that perfectly suit my tilt. They are both massive endeavours, involving many people and changing RTW in a myriad of ways. They transform RTW from an ultimately unchallenging and occasionally annoyingly ahistorical strategy game into a serious historical wargame that is fun to play. To some extent, they are the Pepsi and Coke of RTW mods - they are really remarkable similar. If forced to identify differences, at the moment, I would say RTR is more polished and playable whereas EB is more ambitious and promising. But I don't wish to offend either team, whose works have given me a lot of pleasure now and will continue to do so in the future.


Some minor things have changed since the above: the EB beta has had a patch (may have fixed the AI bribery problem but still CTDs on my rig) and RTR has become RTR Gold.

However, the biggest change since I wrote the above is that RTR has now been "unofficially" ported over to RTW 1.5 as RTR Platinum. This means that you can avoid the save/reload bug in 1.2 and generally get better AI; plus you can have a charge stat that works and also mod down the bandit/pirate spawn rate. RTR Platinum have done some clever things to the hoplites (stripping them of their phalanx formation) and there are some nice mods for it already - some of us are having fun with the Metro Naval mod in the Throne room in the Will of the Senate PBM, see, for example, the battle reports thread:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=65721

[The Spartan (Returns)]

EB is the way to go overall. :2thumbsup:
It's still in BETA, but it's stable(I had no CTD's with it).

It includes tons and tons of features, ranging from superb units, to new buildings and an excellent campaign map.

Europa Barbarorum Official Website (https://www.europabarbarorum.com)and really cool features. they did a excellnt job with scripting.

[Lentonius]

I think you cannot really decide by debating which one is better. They both have differences and many people are lovers of one of these or another. I personally love both of them. RTR is a brilliantly compiled mod, it is very user friendly, playable, and bug free. EB features fantastic innovative new elements like new animations and a complex scripting system. My reccomendation is that you download both, as I have done, and just play them. You will be able to tell which one you prefer then, as in these posts people can make rash biased points, also, there will never be a solid conclusion on the matter.

Regards
Lentonius

[econ21]

My reccomendation is that you download both, as I have done, and just play them.

Good advice.

BTW, it's easy to have two mods installed if you have enough harddisk space. What I do is keep a folder with an unmodded version of RTW and when I want to install a mod, I copy that folder and install the mod on the copy. The only trick will be watching for the version of RTW - EB currently needs 1.2, whereas for RTR, I would recommend Platinum which needs 1.5. (If you want both, best to uninstall RTW, then do a fresh install to 1.2, copy for EB, patch original to 1.5, copy for Platinum).

There is also a mod swapper available if you want to get into that.

[GiftOfForesight]

Thanks for the help, especially econ21. Maybe I will end up playing both mods =).

[Epistolary Richard]

Thanks for all the opinions posted. I will certainly reference this thread should a similar question be asked in the future.

Closed.