View Full Version : Chechan Warlord Shamil Basayev killed
Templar Knight
07-11-2006, 20:33
Appears the Russians finally got him
The most wanted Chechen rebel warlord, Shamil Basayev, has died in an explosion in the neighbouring republic of Ingushetia.
Russia's FSB security service chief, Nikolai Patrushev, said Basayev was killed in a "special operation".
But a pro-rebel website said Basayev and three other militants died when a lorry carrying explosives blew up accidentally.
Basayev, a key Chechen rebel commander, led many major attacks against Russia.
President Vladimir Putin said his death was "deserved retribution" for rebel attacks, including the deaths of more than 300 during a school siege.
The September 2004 attack on a school in Beslan, in the North Caucasus, led to at least 331 deaths. It triggered outrage in Russia and other countries, as many women and children were among the victims.
The pro-rebel Kavkaz-Center website, citing a member of the rebel parliament, said Basayev had died "a martyr" in the lorry explosion on Monday near the village of Yekazhevo in Ingushetia.
US President George W Bush's reaction to Basayev's death was: "If he's in fact the person who ordered the killing of children in Beslan, he deserved it."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/5165456.stm
The Russians always had a ... direct way of dealing with things.
Congratulations to the Russians and good riddance.
Kääpäkorven Konsuli
07-11-2006, 21:21
The Russians always had a ... direct way of dealing with things.
I don't see much difference in the way Usa, Israel and Russia deal whit things.
Dutch_guy
07-11-2006, 22:06
Well, I'm not going to miss him...
:balloon2:
IrishArmenian
07-11-2006, 22:33
Ah, the Chechens. A Chechen Warlord once said (of the Armenians) "I have not faced defeat like this even against the Russians"*
*Thanks Artavadz for the quote.
Anyway, good riddance. Another crazed idiot who would always create more problems in my line of work is dead. I just hope is replacement is not as stupid or more stupid.
I don't see much difference in the way Usa, Israel and Russia deal whit things.
The USA doesn't use military grade chemical weaponry to deal with a hostage situation ... neither do you send in SEAL teams in to handle a hostage situation ... the Russians do. I suspect that Israel doesn't either, but their assassinations are quite ... impressive.
Templar Knight
07-11-2006, 23:02
Army Special Forces are the best units to send in when dealing with deadly hostage situations, the Spec Ops that Russia had on scene were not the best in the army and they failed to secure the perimeter so when the assault began crazed parents and locals charged the school area.
Papewaio
07-11-2006, 23:55
The British used the SAS in the Iran Embassy Siege. (1980: SAS rescue ends Iran embassy siege)
Australian Special forces are trained for anti-terrorist activities. Helicopters fly over the Sydney harbour and ferries get boarded in training exercises.
Big_John
07-12-2006, 00:36
i need to know whether he was a terrorist or a freedom fighter before i decide how i feel about this..
i need to know whether he was a terrorist or a freedom fighter before i decide how i feel about this..
He claimed civilians as viable targets ... one of the people behind the Beslan, where over 300 women and children died, in a school which was held hostage. All in all, a bad guy.
Army Special Forces are the best units to send in when dealing with deadly hostage situations, the Spec Ops that Russia had on scene were not the best in the army and they failed to secure the perimeter so when the assault began crazed parents and locals charged the school area.
Actually, I was referring to an earlier case in a Moscow theatre, where the Alphas used a previously untested military-grade knock-out gas to disable the terrorists there. A large number of people reported health difficulties after the event, but, it was an overall success, because they were around to report health difficulties, rather than not being able to report anything, at all.
Big_John
07-12-2006, 00:58
He claimed civilians as viable targets ... one of the people behind the Beslan, where over 300 women and children died, in a school which was held hostage. All in all, a bad guy.right, i know.. so.. freedom fighter or terrorist?
seriously, not trying to be flippant just for the sake of it. i just
find it strange how the same murderous actions can be terrorism or war crimes
or a virtuous struggle for freedom, depending on the politics.
anyway, i'll stop hijacking this thread.
right, i know.. so.. freedom fighter or terrorist?
seriously, not trying to be flippant just for the sake of it. i just
find it strange how the same murderous actions can be terrorism or war crimes
or a virtuous struggle for freedom, depending on the politics.
anyway, i'll stop hijacking this thread.
Reports said as many as 1,200 hostages might have been inside the school and that 70 percent of them were children. Earlier reports had placed the number of hostages at a few hundred. (Map of school)
http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/europe/09/03/russia.school/
70 percent were children... I find it hard to classify this man as a freedom fighter.
Papewaio
07-12-2006, 02:58
right, i know.. so.. freedom fighter or terrorist?
From Papes IMDHO Rules of Thumb.
A freedom fighter will target the military first and minimise attacks on civilians to enact regime change.
A terrorist will target civilians first and minimise attacks on the military to enact regime change.
So if you were a partisan in WWII who blew up ammo dumps and troop trains you would be a freedom fighter.
If you were a partisan in WWII who blew up schools full of children and civilian commuter trains you would be a terrorist.
From Papes IMDHO Rules of Thumb.
A freedom fighter will target the military first and minimise attacks on civilians to enact regime change.
A terrorist will target civilians first and minimise attacks on the military to enact regime change.
So if you were a partisan in WWII who blew up ammo dumps and troop trains you would be a freedom fighter.
If you were a partisan in WWII who blew up schools full of children and civilian commuter trains you would be a terrorist.
Completely agree.
The word terrorist comes from terrorizing the people anyway, doesn´t it?
And since the military is hard to terrorize usually, they terrorize civilians.
And btw, the German KSK also trains for hostage situations IIRC.
Somehow I feel though, that the russian hostage situations usually have a much larger scale than many others and I think it´s harder to kill 50 terrorists in a theater/school before they can kill any hostages than to kill 3 robbers in a bank before they can do harm.
Banquo's Ghost
07-12-2006, 08:51
From Papes IMDHO Rules of Thumb.
A freedom fighter will target the military first and minimise attacks on civilians to enact regime change.
A terrorist will target civilians first and minimise attacks on the military to enact regime change.
So if you were a partisan in WWII who blew up ammo dumps and troop trains you would be a freedom fighter.
If you were a partisan in WWII who blew up schools full of children and civilian commuter trains you would be a terrorist.
A tad simplistic, but a decent rule of thumb.
Which demonstrates that the Russian government is a terrorist organisation.
As ever, brutalisation of a people tends to create brutes. As Noam Chomsky noted (and is in someone's sig) the best way to stop terrorism is to stop participating in it.
Cronos Impera
07-12-2006, 10:57
Well, untill they show his head on a spike I belive this is cheap propaganda meant to distract the russian, pardon me soviet population. It may be some generals boasting to their superiors in Moscow. Untill they show his body to the public it is nothing but propaganda and publicity.
Don't cheer too much. It may be a hoax.
Won't miss him, and neither did the russians.
goodbye dr Goatlove, won't need heating where you go.
Dutch_guy
07-12-2006, 12:31
Well, untill they show his head on a spike I belive this is cheap propaganda meant to distract the russian, pardon me soviet population. It may be some generals boasting to their superiors in Moscow. Untill they show his body to the public it is nothing but propaganda and publicity.
Don't cheer too much. It may be a hoax.
Well from what I've heard, there are only bits and pieces left - so I daresay we won't see a head on a spike anytime soon ~;)
Other than that, the initial article says, about the identification:
Ingush Deputy Prime Minister Bashir Aushev, responsible for security, said experts had identified Basayev from the body parts.
"All his distinguishing features were found," Interfax news agency quoted him as saying.
And even his own side isn't denying his death:
But a pro-rebel website said Basayev and three other militants died when a lorry carrying explosives blew up accidentally.
:balloon2:
Vladimir
07-12-2006, 19:32
A tad simplistic, but a decent rule of thumb.
Which demonstrates that the Russian government is a terrorist organisation.
As ever, brutalisation of a people tends to create brutes. As Noam Chomsky noted (and is in someone's sig) the best way to stop terrorism is to stop participating in it.
Yes, Mr. Chumpsky also believes that American football and other sports are an effort by the government to cow the population. I've seen him try to explain it.
Papewaio
07-13-2006, 02:24
A tad simplistic, but a decent rule of thumb.
Which demonstrates that the Russian government is a terrorist organisation.
It also allows a person to be both a freedom fighter and a terrorist. It is equally applicable to person or government. Obvioulsy it is the grey shades and intent that make things a tad more interesting.
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