Contemplating my naval

[King Kurt]

In the near future I anticipate getting into a bit of a naval scrap with the English with my widespread Sicilian fleet. It is mostly dromans but I have just started building gungalleys. I am thinking of using a gungalley with 2 dromans as a killer fleet, but will this work?? I think the English fleets are not hi-tech, just run of the mill boats.

All contributions welcomed:2thumbsup:

[Vladimir]

Split your fleet into fast and slow like normal and don't attack if you have less than 2 to 1 odds in your favor; 3-1 is better. Stars are very important in naval combat so pay attention to those. Hopefully your trade routes are guarded by fast ships. If they're faster than the enemy, keep moving them around to keep them alive and the seas choked up.

That and damn the bloody English fleet :furious3: ! I always have a problem with those guys.

[macsen rufus]

Note that sometimes in coastal waters, small (coastal) boats seem to trump big (deep sea) ones (or I just have a lot of bad luck :laugh4: ) Straits of Gibraltar and the Adriatic seem particularly bad for this. In one recent battle (as English, attacking Spanish fleet) I lost a 4* barque to a 0* barque, then lost 2 barques and 2 caravels to the same one (which had gained a star from the previous battle!) This was in the dreaded SoG. So beware :skull: :2thumbsup:

[caravel]

Note that sometimes in coastal waters, small (coastal) boats seem to trump big (deep sea) ones (or I just have a lot of bad luck :laugh4: ) Straits of Gibraltar and the Adriatic seem particularly bad for this. In one recent battle (as English, attacking Spanish fleet) I lost a 4* barque to a 0* barque, then lost 2 barques and 2 caravels to the same one (which had gained a star from the previous battle!) This was in the dreaded SoG. So beware :skull: :2thumbsup:

It's random, sometimes the AI decides to give you a good hiding and you lose stacks of ships. I've often lost a stack of six Caravels with the lead ship at say valour (command) 4 against one or two low valour Dromons. Ships seem to work like a stack of agents, though as a stack working independently, and their success must be based on the infamous "seed number". That is, they have a success/failure percentage modified by their valour level, as well as the defense and attack values, the speed just determines if they can escape from another ship if they move to another sea zone, and if they can catch a ship that is escaping to another sea zone.

[Sensei Warrior]

Unfortunately the sea battles seem very random. The method I use is:

1. Grouping boats together by speed. A stack is only as fast as its slowest ship.

2. I attack when odds are in your favor 2 or 3-1.

I seem to have better luck when hitting a stack with multiple stacks. So if I am attacking a 2 ship stack, I will use as many 4-6 ship stacks as I can. This might be difficult if you don't have alot of ships, but I tend to churn ships out like mad.

I also keep a general strategy of having at least 2 to 3 times the amount of ships as the most powerful naval AI faction. I also have the tendancy to keep large stacks of ships near my ship-production provences as a reserve.

Another thing I do, is any coastal provence that I own, that isn't a unit producing provence, I make into ship producing provences to guarantee I will have the ability to replenish ships as quickly as possible, in case of naval catastrophe.

[gaijinalways]

Sounds like a super navy. I tend to build up slower, as some provinces double as ship builders and troop builders. I am currently building more shipyards though, as i want to flood the waters for trade and a possible take over of the Italians later in my current English campaign.

[Sensei Warrior]

Yeah a super navy, but it also tends to be super expensive. I should also stress I try to do just a 1-2 ship expansion in the beginning so I can secure trade income. After that the navy is paid for by trade so if I go to war with a naval faction, I can't afford to have my income nixed for years. Typically, any naval battles are fought with quick blanket bombardment to resecure my trade lines asap.

[gaijinalways]

One other thing, I thought stacking ships was a no no. Haven't you ever taken a stack down (as well as had a stack of ships taken down:furious3: )?

I always leave my ships separate, and of course later on try to have at least 2 in hostile waters and in the late game every sea that I am in.

[professorspatula]

I find naval combat a bit too random to worry about whether or not to stack ships or whatever. Sometimes I clean up and end up killing 8 ships in one turn for a loss of one of my own, and other times I'm on the end of a beating (worse was when my Scilian fleet lost anywhere between 10 and 15 ships to the Italians and Byzantines in a single year). By the time I'm losing loads of ships, I'm usually filthy rich because I was master of sea trade beforehand anyway, and I start churning out more ships to replace those I've lost and before long it's 'I think you'll find I rule the waves Mr. AI and I don't care to share the seas with your little toy boats' type thing. The only thing I make sure is before attacking I have at least the same or more ships than the AI. Then I let the random maths do its thing.

[Sensei Warrior]

I agree with the professor. Not to mention in the later parts of the game it gets easier to find your stack in the myriad of ships because yours is the stack half filled. Naval battles are to random to for me so it all boils down to simplicity.

[Csargo]

I have a question about the AIs navies or how they act they seem to always attack for no reason at all doesn't seem to matter if I have a couple of ships or a whole bunch.

[Sensei Warrior]

Csar The random thing includes your question as well. The computer goes about naval warfare more randomly then it goes about land warfare. It doesn't seem like there is a real rhyme or reason to it at all. I've had allies suicide 1 ship in a whole chain of ships and a large fleet to start a war with me. After the suicide they never attack again, but they managed to decimate my trading income, forcing me to take action.

[Csargo]

Oh ok thanks Sensei I figured it was just a random thing the AI did.

[Ludens]

I have a question about the AIs navies or how they act they seem to always attack for no reason at all doesn't seem to matter if I have a couple of ships or a whole bunch.
Yes, these oftentimes make no sense at all. I sometimes have been attacked this way the turn after the A.I. asked for a cease-fire. I think that the game treats ships as agents, and therefor thinks it can get away with covert attacks. It only sees the success-percentages. That's why you shouldn't one-ship stacks to defend: these work like a magnet for A.I. naval attacks. The A.I. also seems more aggresive when you station ships alongside their coasts.

On the other hand, given how (comparatively) bad the A.I. is at establishing a trade network this might just be a mechanism to keep the player's trade network in check, and prevent him from gaining naval dominance easily.